as expected, slap on the hand for Meyer
- Thread starter PaBoiler78
- Start date
Yeah, and it's even beyond Nassar, to more recently, involving both the football and BB teams. Like gang rape stuff. I don't understand how that happens without anyone getting fired.
or if his record was 8 -73 vs 73 -8. Will be back in time for the big Tulane game.
I think Izzo spent the whole summer counseling victims, or at least he said he was going to support them and help them as soon as BB season was over. I'm sure there are multiple stories out there about all he has done.
Edit: I found one story about him wearing a teal ribbon. What a great guy!
me neither, but was surprised that the issue of domestic violence was never really addressed which was the whole basis of the situation. All it was sorry to Buckeye nation, could have done more, let myself and the great university down etc.
This means Urbs will be visiting the following stadiums this season:
Penn St 9/29
Purdue 10/20
Mich St 11/10
Maryland 11/17
Seriously.. Looks like we are the only ones with a leg to stand on when it comes to condemning abuse. I say we raise awareness of domestic violence with a moment of silence before kickoff.
Penn St 9/29
Purdue 10/20
Mich St 11/10
Maryland 11/17
Seriously.. Looks like we are the only ones with a leg to stand on when it comes to condemning abuse. I say we raise awareness of domestic violence with a moment of silence before kickoff.
and hopefully it never rears it's ugly head in regards to our program. It's terrible what goes on in our world esp. after the recent findings with catholic priest abuse out here in Pa.
This is a tricky situation. By no means do I approve of domestic violence. However, what do you do if you become aware that one of your employees may or may not have committed a crime? As a manager, you really can't fire the guy because he might be completely innocent. You have to let the wheels of justice turn before you, as a manager, take action.
I am coming into this situation late and don't know all the facts. I don't see how Meyer should have acted as judge & jury in this situation. He had to wait for the authorities to determine the guilt or innocence of his assistant. Maybe he could have done more, but what should his response have been? Should he have pursued his own investigation? We had a good discussion on the basketball board, but I think we left it with too simplistic a solution. I ask not to argue, but to learn.
I am coming into this situation late and don't know all the facts. I don't see how Meyer should have acted as judge & jury in this situation. He had to wait for the authorities to determine the guilt or innocence of his assistant. Maybe he could have done more, but what should his response have been? Should he have pursued his own investigation? We had a good discussion on the basketball board, but I think we left it with too simplistic a solution. I ask not to argue, but to learn.
I said in an earlier thread that I couldn't make a judgement on what all happened as I didn't know all the facts, but Urban lying about it makes all the allegations appear true and he was covering it up. I still don't know what all happened, but that investigative report sure looks fishy also.
The committee claimed Meyer "didn't intentionally lie". What???
They also said as a matter of fact, that Meyer never was told about all of the texts his wife got from Smith's wife.
They also mention as a side note that Meyer asked a staffer how to delete texts more than a year old. When they checked his phone records, no texts older than a year were found. Imagine that! The committee concluded there wasn't any correlation between those two items. Uh ok.
The committee claimed Meyer "didn't intentionally lie". What???
They also said as a matter of fact, that Meyer never was told about all of the texts his wife got from Smith's wife.
They also mention as a side note that Meyer asked a staffer how to delete texts more than a year old. When they checked his phone records, no texts older than a year were found. Imagine that! The committee concluded there wasn't any correlation between those two items. Uh ok.
I may be reading too much into the press conference, but it seemed pretty flat. When Urban was asked about Courtney Smith, he basically said he felt sorry for everyone for the situation "they" were in. I take the "they" to mean the football program in general. That the program looks bad because of this situation. I can't help but think that it's a veiled stab at Courtney for coming forward in the McMurphy interview. That if she hadn't gone public last month, the program wouldn't have the issue that they are in right now. He clearly doesn't think he did anything wrong. I don't know if the punishment should be more than it is, but I think it's pretty clear that he knew more and should have done more.
There was enough questionable behavior by Meyer to warrant more action:
1). Didn't mention the 2009 incident when he reported the 2015 incident to Gene Smith.
2). Lied to the media about knowing anything about any incident.
3). Lied about text messages he had on his phone (claimed memory loss) and deleted text messages associated with it.
4). Threw his wife under the bus by claiming he knew nothing about her texts from Courtney Smith.
The slime factor is extremely high. I have lost any respect I had for Urban Meyer as a human being. His only concern is for his career.
it appears to me that social media knows more about this story than the police or court system ever did. As a manager, should you fire somebody based on allegations made in the social media? As a manager, should you report an employee based on allegations made in the social media? if a person is not willing to file charges or testify to the allegations made on social media, can that person's allegations be believed or taken seriously?
We all can make up stories on social media. Is a supervisor required to file a report and investigate every story that is made on social media? .
I believe any action taken against Smith or Meyer should have been based on actual legal accusations made and are actually testified to as a part of law. if no charges were ever filed, or if the person was found not guilty, I don't believe a supervisor should be required to take it upon themselves to file a report every time based on what social media dictates. the last time I looked twitter is not our Court system, although that may soon change. .
I was involved in a court case where the high school IT technician was secretly given the responsibility to secretly follow all his high school student's media posts on all of the social media forums/format as part of a secret drug intervention program. . So he would sit in his little office using a secret internet identity surfing facebook, snapchat twitter, and other media forums reading conversations and looking at pictures of all the students. These responsibilities were never publically made known to anybody. . Several girls posted pictures on the internet of a party where they consumed alcohol. and the mother of one of the girls was charged and convicted for contributing to the delinquency of the minors and allowing underaged drinking, even though she wasn't home and didn't know about the party. that NARC ruined that mother's life and her children's life. My morals are different than others. I call that an invasion of privacy and that NARC is a creeper and a stalker. the court system called it legal evidence admissible in court and commended him on his actions.
Should we expect Urb or any supervisor to spend half of their job to also read what is posted about their staffers on social media and report it and document it to 20 different people and agencies? or should we only require him to report actions where only legal charges have been filed? or when the individual has personally and officially addressed it to him? the question becomes, what is his job? and what should be the primary focus of it?
Anything you say can and will be held against you. Nothing is ever deleted from the internet. and NARCS make very good money.
We all can make up stories on social media. Is a supervisor required to file a report and investigate every story that is made on social media? .
I believe any action taken against Smith or Meyer should have been based on actual legal accusations made and are actually testified to as a part of law. if no charges were ever filed, or if the person was found not guilty, I don't believe a supervisor should be required to take it upon themselves to file a report every time based on what social media dictates. the last time I looked twitter is not our Court system, although that may soon change. .
I was involved in a court case where the high school IT technician was secretly given the responsibility to secretly follow all his high school student's media posts on all of the social media forums/format as part of a secret drug intervention program. . So he would sit in his little office using a secret internet identity surfing facebook, snapchat twitter, and other media forums reading conversations and looking at pictures of all the students. These responsibilities were never publically made known to anybody. . Several girls posted pictures on the internet of a party where they consumed alcohol. and the mother of one of the girls was charged and convicted for contributing to the delinquency of the minors and allowing underaged drinking, even though she wasn't home and didn't know about the party. that NARC ruined that mother's life and her children's life. My morals are different than others. I call that an invasion of privacy and that NARC is a creeper and a stalker. the court system called it legal evidence admissible in court and commended him on his actions.
Should we expect Urb or any supervisor to spend half of their job to also read what is posted about their staffers on social media and report it and document it to 20 different people and agencies? or should we only require him to report actions where only legal charges have been filed? or when the individual has personally and officially addressed it to him? the question becomes, what is his job? and what should be the primary focus of it?
Anything you say can and will be held against you. Nothing is ever deleted from the internet. and NARCS make very good money.
Wol, the University clearly stated in their press conference last night that when Meyers learned of Smith's court date and he had called Smith ( who was on vacation...?) and confirmed the fact of the Court date that he personally had the responsibility to notify OSU's Compliance Office. They also said he should not have denied knowing about the incident when at Media Days ( while stating Meyers did not intentionally lie .... Still trying to figure that one out). It was obvious Meyer's was not happy about being suspended... Clearly the University was not happy with how the incident was handled by Coach and AD...but didn't want to seriously punish the two-simply "appear" to take action. But I digress, if he knew there was a Court Date things had progressed past the "rumor" stage.
He won't get paid during that time, as I understand the decision. It'll cost him about $1 million, based on what I can calculate. ($4 million salary, missing about 25% of this season's games).
GOOD.
3 games too many. Only done to appease the ((((((outrage)))))))
Let's play football.
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a different take. given - there's a court date. it's a legal action on record. A court date does not include a conviction account. is the supervisor supposed to keep tabs and have knowledge of all court dates his employees are responsible for ? and if a college employee has a court date, shouldn't that court/police be the agency for notifying the university rather than a football coach about one of the university's employees?
Rather than questioning the ethics of Urb and Smith or their actions, I' m questioning our current reporting system. To me, the entire reporting process should be outside of the responsibility of a coach and placed within our legal system to deal with. to me, we're doing this reporting thing backwards. Rather tha n football coaches reporting things to authorities, the authorities should be reporting things to the coach.
if a player is arrested for drugs, to me, the police should notify the school and the school should take action and then the school should notify the coach of what actions they took. the school should have fired Smith and then notified urb of the reasons why. I felt the same way with Cline and Ball's son. I felt the police should have notified the school and have them take action, and then notify the coach of what action was taken. I felt the school should have suspended Ball's son rather than placing the issue in Alford's hands to make a decision and announce it. the school should have held the press conference jointly with the police, not Alford and his players.
I can understand some , but not all of the privacy issues. if something like a court date is made a public record, I don't see the need for a football coach to document it and report it. it's already being recorded and reported. to me, a loop should be established. I just don't believe a coach needs to be the initiator of or a part of that loop.
relating this as a teacher, I took attendance for my classes.. In junior high school, our principal made us contact the family over the telephone if a child missed our class. So the family would end up receiving 6 telephone calls, and I'd make an average of 5 calls a day. I cared about my students, but I thought the process was very inefficient. As a college professor , a student had an illness and stopped coming to class. I contacted the student to try to catch up, but he never came back, and also never dropped the class. his mother contacted me and the school after the semester and asked why he received all Fs in 5 classes he was registered for. .
I ask, how much of a student's life or an employee's life, should a teacher or coach be responsible for? I've worked in government and public education jobs and scouting my entire life. I ask what would WalMart do if one of their employees was accused, but not charged with being a wife beater? What would GM do if one of their employees was charged with a DUI ? What would Citibank do if one of their employees over drew on their credit card? What happens at McDonalds, when an employee is constantly late or calls in sick? I testified against an embezzler who stole $15,000 from her church, yet her new employer (restaurant ) said that they would not fire her or keep her away from handling their money. Should teachers and coaches be expected to do more than the normal person working at a normal job ?
my issues are not with MSU, OSU, Izzo or Urb. they are with the makers of rules. I believe in accountability. I just disagree with the process and the person given the responsibility for that accountability.
a bold prediction. if URB and OSU win a big Bowl game, he wil l receive a bonus that will cover the money lost due to his suspension. and OSU will state the two are not related, and the bonus was due purely based on the bowl game performance. or that it was a Christmas bonus given every year.
2009....maybe.
2013.....2015....taking pictures of your junk at the White House, going to strip clubs while essentially on University time....the list goes on. That guy should have had the door hit his ass on the way out a long time ago.
Probably got some leftover Bleachbit from the former Sec of State to clean things up.
Wol, it's not just about what happens on social media. It's not all about Twitter and TMZ. There are police reports involved. While it is true he never went to jail there is documentation about the allegations. And Urban is in a position in which he is a mandatory reporter of such allegations according to Title IX. A random supervisor at a factory isn't held to the same standards. Those standards are in place because schools and universities are where we (they) train and mold young people to live properly in society. There is a different standard that must be followed, and it's something that Meyer and the AD and everyone else at those levels signed up for.
All he had to do to not be in this position was refer the situation and the allegations up the chain of command, to the AD, President, BOT or whatever is above him. An investigation would have happened. Smith may or may not have been fired in 2015, and this would have never affected Meyer or the program. But because Smith was like a son to Urban, he let all of that slide. This is his penalty.
All he had to do to not be in this position was refer the situation and the allegations up the chain of command, to the AD, President, BOT or whatever is above him. An investigation would have happened. Smith may or may not have been fired in 2015, and this would have never affected Meyer or the program. But because Smith was like a son to Urban, he let all of that slide. This is his penalty.
what I'm saying is if documentation already existed, why does the football coach have to resubmit that documentation up another chain? if legal documentation existed, it was already being handled by the proper authorities, and those authorities should be the ones responsible for reporting it to the school and ncaa. I have problems with multiple documentation of the same action. How many agencies actually need to be involved?
. She called the police to intervene. She testified in court. and now we have to inform the coach, who has to inform the compliance officer, who has to inform the AD who has to inform the school who has to inform the NCAA who has to inform the media who has to inform the public. To me that's way too many agencies and people who has to be informed and know. to me that's almost like entrapment. The NCAA is waiting for OSU and Urb to tell them something they already should know from the police and court reports. When I apply for a teaching position, I undergo a background check. there must be 20 different copies filed somewhere of the same incident.
As I look around the landscape. it seems no action is ever taken until the police are involved. So why not just let the police and court system do their job? Why do the school and coaches need to butt in and document everything and report it up the channel. if I was a coach, and a victim came to me, I'd dial 911, and allow them to take it from there. I did that helping a drunk driver. I called 911, and they informed me they'd take it from there. I didn't know she was drunk, but the police did. I filed no forms and didn't report the incident to anybody.
to me, if you have a law/rule, there should be a reason and a benefit. the Smiths had an abusive relationship. They got a divorce as a result. It was being handled by the proper authorities. How many more people and agencies had to know the details? and now the entire world knows . what's the benefit that the entire world now knows?
I like the purpose of title 9. I just disagree with some of its rules for implementation.
What is more amazing to me is how the AD is able to keep his job with all that has transpired with OSU since the Tressel days with their athletic teams and staffs!
A few points (I'm not sure that facts matter much on this forum anymore)
- Meyer's contract was just amended earlier this year (April)
- All incentive pay is spelled out in the contract
- Any college can elect to give a coach a bonus above and beyond the contract
It's really irrelevant.
what's relevant is any money he loses due to a suspension, OSU boosters will find a way to give it back to him.
I think this is the best synopsis I've read.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/08/urban-meyer-zach-smith-ohio-state-coverup.html
It's hard to read this and think there was any legit reason to keep him.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/08/urban-meyer-zach-smith-ohio-state-coverup.html
It's hard to read this and think there was any legit reason to keep him.
Jeez. No kidding. Wolegib, prove you’re not a Russian bot and read my link above and then come back to us.
Ok, I read your link. It sort of also supports my other claim. Smith had a mile long list of wrong doings. In order to be included in that link, those wrong doings had to be on public record somewhere. in order to get a job at OSU, Smith had to submit to a background check, and all that stuff should have come out in the background check. OSU should have never hired him. I believe it's the school that does the hiring rather than coach, right? If true, OSU and the OSU AD are guiltier than Urb for not doing their diligent research in hiring him. Remember the head coach Notre Dame hired and then fired before he ever coached a game based on his background check?
and as far as title 9 goes, if it's all a public record, why does OSU have to report it to the NCAA ? the NCAA should already have known about all this stuff and have it in some secret file stashed somewhere.
now to answer your question why is it relevant. To appease the masses and get the media off their back, OSU had to do something. They never had any intention of firing Urb despite his lies or sliminess. But they had to present something. to make it look like they were in control. So they gave Urb a 3 game suspension. Why do I believe it's relevant? because on paper, it appears like they really gave him a punishment and took money away from him. But my belief is they will find a way to repay him that money through either a bonus or via OSU booster or alumni gifts. In the end, OSU appears to have done something to make Urb suffer, but in reality it was all just for show. Urb might not coach for 3 games, but he'll be allowed at practices. and he'll probably find some cell phone to dial in plays on game day. So Urb basically got off scott free, as I had predicted he would whe n this entire issue was brought up. OSU mirrors our society. it's ok to lie to the public and media. the precedent has already been established. there is NO punishment for lying.
as for being called a Russian Bot, if you call me that again, my reply will be even longer. I am no Russian, and no Russian would ever claim to be me.
and if you read any of my other posts on this subject, I never approved of or tried to defend or support the actions of Urb, OSU, the OSU AD, or Smith. I just said it's likely that no real significant actions will be taken by OSU against Urb.
now if OSU was undefeated, and lost to Michigan in that last week, and it cost OSU an invitation to the final 4 of football, urb would be fired before Midnight of that day. I lived 4 years inside OSU country. I have a feel for their love of winning football. I've also lived in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Alabama and Georgia.
remember the old saying, you only have two certainties in life - death and paying taxes ? Well, in those states, there are three givens in life, death, paying taxes and college football.
now if OSU was undefeated, and lost to Michigan in that last week, and it cost OSU an invitation to the final 4 of football, urb would be fired before Midnight of that day. I lived 4 years inside OSU country. I have a feel for their love of winning football. I've also lived in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Alabama and Georgia.
remember the old saying, you only have two certainties in life - death and paying taxes ? Well, in those states, there are three givens in life, death, paying taxes and college football.
