I’m expecting big things from Heide as well and if somehow that’s at the 4 then it’ll mean he earned it in practice. Before practice started I had hoped that he’d be starting at the 3 but have heard more talk and rumblings about Waddell and Colvin. Every mention from Painter seemed to be about potential and athleticism and his need to work to improve on things, not that he’s impressed him at all. I believe before he’s done at Purdue he should be a dominating force from 3-4. I’m just not sure with the log jams at both positions and Painter and others not talking him up that he may by default lose out on minutes. I hope that’s not the case.
Anyone viewing practices?
- Thread starter Schmedly_Whiplash
- Start date
No question an intrasquad scrimmage isn't the same as a game. I'm just curious if Myles is working on D and getting better and would like to see Cam handle the ball and see his shot as well. Then of course I want to see if Trey is more versatile offensively...something other than jump hooks and up & unders. Then are there any 3s and 4s that will put the ball on the court and penetrate to the lane "should" it be there due to a hard closeout or...
Basically, Cam, Brian and Myles are all new to Purdue basketball as far as court experience. Brian and Cam have the advantage of last year listening and watching (Brian 2 years), but all three are relatively inexperienced. I hope Myles can get some minutes at 2 so Brian and Cam split more of the 3 minutes. I intend to talk to Braden and Brian Saturday and catch Matt if I see him.
Waddell has the advantage because he played decent minutes early in the season. Don’t forget that drive by dunk against Duke.
Yeah, Waddell is very athletic and knows more of the offense and has a more refined game right now than Colvin....Waddell will play more than Colvin and start over him this year....Colvin is too raw right now....good shooter but doesn't know the offense and his defense is lacking....he'll play, but behind Waddell this year....wouldn't surprise me to see him make the jump next year though....
Heide is strong, good leaper and rebounder, handles it decently, not great lateral quickness but is one of our best shooters....he would fit perfectly next to Zach at the 4....teams are gonna pack it in this year and we'll need a shooter at the 4....heide is that guy because he can also guard 4s without it being a detriment....
They'll play him a little at the 3 to start the year but will find out he's more of a 4 because of his lack of lateral movement and quickness, plus jones, Waddell and Colvin will beat him out of minutes at the 3....then when we start playing good teams, they'll pack it in on us daring us to shoot....we'll run in to a similar situation from last year when tkr and furst aren't efficient from the arc and Gillis goes through a cold spell....Painter will turn to heide because he's capable of guarding a 4 and is one of our better shooters....then heide will start to get consistent minutes at the 4 when edey is in....just my prediction....
Good explanation. I am happy reports are we have another weapon in Heide regardless of where he sees pt. Anxious to see all these new guys in the mix.
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Blind people can't see walls either.
Doesn't mean they aint' there.
The consise part was the "starts at 4:30"
And yet the COACHES continue to start and praise Mason. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmOk, I'll explain more what I meant.
What Gillis does, is nothing that other guys at the same position (4) can't do -- TKR and Furst. These two, in my mind are better than Gillis and provide more of an advantage at the 4. He may be a bit quicker than TKR, but isn't as tallor physical and I'd say Furst and him look to be about the same in quickness, if not Furst having the edge there. TKR and Furst are able to screen and rebound, if not better than him and can guard bigger players at the 4. Gillis is too slow to guard the 3. With that said, I would expect those two to play more minutes than Gillis. I suggested that the 3pt shooting would help keep Gillis more on the floor, because the other two can do what he already does and may do it even better. So, I was trying to identify something that he could and does better than those two, which is shoots the 3 better and shoots FTs.
I doubt he will play the 20ish mins he's been avg in his career. He may start out that way, but if he is playing significant minutes over the combo of TKR and Furst towards the end of the season, then we may be in some trouble IMO. Again, I am a fan of his and hope he is able to contribute efficiently this year, but just giving my opinion since that's all we can do until the season starts
who's opinion should we value?????
Sorry but if you think TKR sets screens and defends better than Mason you need to go back to "Hoops watching 101" for some remedial time.Ok, I'll explain more what I meant.
What Gillis does, is nothing that other guys at the same position (4) can't do -- TKR and Furst. These two, in my mind are better than Gillis and provide more of an advantage at the 4. He may be a bit quicker than TKR, but isn't as tallor physical and I'd say Furst and him look to be about the same in quickness, if not Furst having the edge there. TKR and Furst are able to screen and rebound, if not better than him and can guard bigger players at the 4. Gillis is too slow to guard the 3. With that said, I would expect those two to play more minutes than Gillis. I suggested that the 3pt shooting would help keep Gillis more on the floor, because the other two can do what he already does and may do it even better. So, I was trying to identify something that he could and does better than those two, which is shoots the 3 better and shoots FTs.
I doubt he will play the 20ish mins he's been avg in his career. He may start out that way, but if he is playing significant minutes over the combo of TKR and Furst towards the end of the season, then we may be in some trouble IMO. Again, I am a fan of his and hope he is able to contribute efficiently this year, but just giving my opinion since that's all we can do until the season starts
That's humorous.
#3 ranked team in the country and as deep as any we've ever seen.
So Yeah, everyone IS pretty much great.
Oof, no need to act like that. We are on the same team here.
I’m just saying, from what I saw the last month of last year and from the scrimmage this year from Gillis, I’d take TKR at the 4. But you’re right, it’s the coaches’ call and according to what has been posted, it is suggested/thought Gillis complements Edey best. You say that coaches speak highly of Gillis, well everyone is speaking highly of TKR, but they both can’t play the 4 at the same time with Zach.
However, IMO, if we continue to do the same things we have done, we probably will have the same results come tourney time. So that’s why I’m advocating for a bit of a change.
I know he can jump and appears strong (nice BB body) and rebounds. I'm unfamiliar with his ball handling and shooting. If he is as good in shooting and ball handling and his decision making and defense are fine, he will get a lot of minutes somewhere.
I don’t dispute that Heide can likely be a good 4 but believe he can play the 3 just as well. I think he makes more since with this year’s team (be it all speculation since we’re making these calls for the most part sight unseen) playing the 3 before Jones. I think Jones will get plenty of time between the 1-2 and less at the 3 due to the other potential 3’s. Looking forward to the start of the year so we can see how it all shakes out.
But they aren't. Edey is great. Not many NBA prospects among the rest of them. A lot of good role players surrounding Edey. It may be enough to bring us some hardware, so I'm not discounting them but guys like Jones Waddell and Morton aren't going to be great!
I’m gonna bet jones and Waddell are going to impress you this season!
If either of them average 7 or 8 points per game, I'll be impressed. That wouldn't make them great.
As Schemdly says, there’s more than just scoring that makes a good/great player 😉 . But in all seriousness, we don’t need them to be great, just solid—play and understand on ball and team defense, win 50/50 balls and hit open shots when the opportunity presents. Oh and attack/handle the press 😀
Good article on TKR:
BoilerUpload - Matt Painter is betting big on Trey Kaufman-Renn
He's back at practice, all 7 feet 4 inches of him, and he's
purdue.rivals.com
We shall see. Says they play some with post to post touches. Also sounds like he is quicker and shooting better...all great signs if accurate.Good article on TKR:
BoilerUpload - Matt Painter is betting big on Trey Kaufman-Renn
He's back at practice, all 7 feet 4 inches of him, and he's
There’s lots of noise surrounding him this year from coaches and teammates. It’s hard not to get excited to see what it’s all about and give it a bit of credence considering where it’s coming from. Boiler up! We shall see in the near future. 💛🖤🏀
I posted this on the other board but posting here for my guys @Thadoc1 and @DwaynePurvis00 because I know you love you some Gillis.
The problem with Gillis' shooting last year is that Mason's distribution of results was too wide.
In the nine games last season where he shot four or more three pointers, he hit 40% or better four times (44% of the time). From my perspective that's decent. The problem is that a third of the time he shot 25% or worse, including games of 1 for 5 and 1 for 7. Those are killers. I do wonder if his lingering back issue played a role in that as the previous season he shot four or more threes 12 times and only shot 25% or worse in two of those with 1 for 4 and 0 for 4 performances. Pretty amazingly he shot 40% or better in all ten of the other games in which he shot four or more threes, including 50% or better in 8 of 12 games.
It's interesting to note that he did his best shooting last year in games where he took three three pointers, in those six games he made at least one every time and shot a combined 8 for 18 (over 44%).
In any case, agree that he needs to shoot better and more consistently from three if he's going to play major minutes. If he does that I do think he could have an Eifert type breakout senior year.
I think I have posted this article before, which is also quite interesting with stats last year of edey and TKR together. Now I’m not saying this is “what has to happen”…just interesting and a bit intriguing.
The article states: “The sample size is small (199 possessions), but there’s hope from Edey and Kaufman-Renn’s minutes together last season. The Boilermakers scored 1.14 points per possession and allowed just 0.86 PPP, per Hooplens.com. Purdue shot just 26.7 percent from 3 when those two played together — but made up for it by shooting 61.5 percent inside the arc and grabbing 40.4 percent of its misses. Both marks would have led college basketball.”
If anyone’s interested in the full article and missed it last time:
Matt Painter's got a big idea to change Purdue's fortunes in March
Eschewing modern trends, Painter is tinkering with moving 6-foot-9 sophomore Trey Kaufman-Renn into the starting lineup for more offense.
theathletic.com
Again, not saying I’m right or this is going to happen, just showing a different perspective with the possibility of actually playing two bigs—with playing Edey and TKR seeming like it may be different than when we have tried in years past. It may be a disaster, it may not be. I just hope Paint tries it out for a bit during the season for different looks/lineups.
😂😂 very good points. It was interesting that he was all over the place the last month of the season. Going 9/12 vs PSU and then not shooting well for a decent stretch. Again, I like the player and hope when he plays he produces and is efficient in his playing time. As it’s been noted, we usually play 8-9 guys at max, so unless that’s changes this year, 1-2 of these guys we are all talking about will be seeing limited floor action and none of us really know…yet 😂
I don’t have a clue on Gillis. I will say that if he can pull an Eifert and be money on open threes as a senior this team will be very, very tough to beat.
I’ll add that I’ll be shocked if Gillis, Caleb or Trey play fewer than 12 mpg if healthy. The shakeout that you’re talking about looks to me like it will happen at the 2 and 3, but what do I know 😉
It absolutely can work, but whether it does or not remains to be seen. I hope it does. There is another part in there...FOULS drawn. Matt has a broader athletic/skill team than in the past. If needed, now another ball handler that apparently can D up as well, for those athletic teams that suffocate with pressure...the writing on Lance seems to provide value as a ball handler and defensive player on the ball anyway and hope he can do well off the ball. Hopefully this helps with pressure and perhaps a player to increase the ball pressure. Any scoring is a plus and he will score I'm sure.I think I have posted this article before, which is also quite interesting with stats last year of edey and TKR together. Now I’m not saying this is “what has to happen”…just interesting and a bit intriguing.
The article states: “The sample size is small (199 possessions), but there’s hope from Edey and Kaufman-Renn’s minutes together last season. The Boilermakers scored 1.14 points per possession and allowed just 0.86 PPP, per Hooplens.com. Purdue shot just 26.7 percent from 3 when those two played together — but made up for it by shooting 61.5 percent inside the arc and grabbing 40.4 percent of its misses. Both marks would have led college basketball.”
If anyone’s interested in the full article and missed it last time:
Matt Painter's got a big idea to change Purdue's fortunes in March
Eschewing modern trends, Painter is tinkering with moving 6-foot-9 sophomore Trey Kaufman-Renn into the starting lineup for more offense.
Again, not saying I’m right or this is going to happen, just showing a different perspective with the possibility of actually playing two bigs—with playing Edey and TKR seeming like it may be different than when we have tried in years past. It may be a disaster, it may not be. I just hope Paint tries it out for a bit during the season for different looks/lineups.
Ya want to run? Matt has a team that can get up and down the court with 4 basically new players in Brian/Myles/Cam...and Lance. You going to send an army on Zach...hopefully there are enough players to hit open shots...some players that can get to where they want in the lane...some players with an ability to steal some points before Zach gets down there.
Matt has two people coaching D (which is where they had the most experience) and previous players giving insight to what Matt wants in PJ and Sasha...and Brandon still beating up on the Bigs. Should be a good year and one that Purdue is strong in the second half
Gillis had a back injury last year, might've affected his shooting more than you know....but I also want him to split time with heide at the 4....tkr at the 4?...not really seeing it, maybe against slower teams that play bigger 4s but teams are going to swarm edey this year and we need a 4 that can shoot and possibly make plays off the bounce....
Gillis is a career 37.6% three-point shooter. Has shot over 35% each of his three years at Purdue. Last year he was one of two guys to shoot over 35% on a really poor shooting 3 point % team. Past performance doesn't always predict future results, but the chances are that he'll be a better and more consistent three-point shooter than many others on the team including guys who play the two or three.
So if I'm reading you right, you believe with some degree of certainty that by the time the B1G season starts our starting line-up will be:
Edey
Heide
Waddell
Loyer
Smith
Is that right????
That is the way I read his thoughts. Problem is none of us know how much improvement any player has made and the specific improvements as well. All we know are that the players, Matt and PJ have all said 1) Trey is going to get more minutes this year. 2) Trey has made the most improvement. We just know Trey is different than last year it appears. Anything else are guesses...perhaps educated guesses?
One area where I expect Edey to continue to progress is in his passing. Combine that with a versatile TKR who can score inside and out and I think the potential is there to really put defenses in a bind. A lot of teams like to double off of the 4, but I see TKR as a player who makes that a very risky option for the defense.
Right now my gut says that Waddell starts at the 3. I think he looks like a talented glue guy to compliment Edey, TKR, Loyer, and Smith. Colvin then brings huge athleticism off the bench as he emerges as the sixth man. Just my guess at this point.
Right now my gut says that Waddell starts at the 3. I think he looks like a talented glue guy to compliment Edey, TKR, Loyer, and Smith. Colvin then brings huge athleticism off the bench as he emerges as the sixth man. Just my guess at this point.
Can I like this twice! Brian N has no idea how it will playout, so what information do we have that he doesn't? At this point, other than us getting the consistent message that TKR will play more, we are just making guesses.
Guys can improve that's obvious, but there is some speculation that most of our guys are going to come back as completely different players 6 months after last season ended. That's just not how it typically plays out. At best a couple of guys will come back as marginally better versions of what they were last year. On some occasions guys actually regress.
All I do know is we had no answer at the two and three at the end of last year when we lost 5 of our last 12 games and that was with the consensus college basketball player of the year.
Smith is great and I think Loyer will be pick up his shooting percentages, but the reality is that this what we have to choose from to fill out the backcourt minutes:
- a 3rd team all MVC caliber player who has had more turnovers than assist in his career and shot 28% from 3 last year. (MVC was rated the 13th best conference by KenPom)
- a recruit who is 17 years old that was rated 51st by rivals
- a guy who was rated 117 by rivals coming out of high school but was redshirted presumably because Painter didn't think he could help at a position that we really needed help at by the end of last year.
- a player who was cleared to play prior to the beginning of the year last year, played quite a bit in November and December but Painter clearly didn't think could help in March. We all know he was coming off an injury but he made 3 baskets in 17 games last year.
- a three-year player whose career averages are 2.8 points, 1.8 rebounds and 1.6 assists per game.
I think I will be in the minority here but I have a feeling that Loyer won’t make a Sophomore jump like expected. Something about his overall play and shooting difficulty last year leaves me to expect more of the same. I hope I am wrong! Yes we are all speculating off of limited information and expectations based on past performance, guessing about improvements. Not to mention trying to anticipate what Painter is thinking.
I agree there are no guarantees but my assumption that he'll better because he only shot 33% from 3 last year. That's a pretty low percentage for a guy who is known as a 3-point shooter. Even if he's just mediocre that percentage should rise.
Historically, most players see the greatest improvement between their freshman and sophomore years and the way that Loyer started out makes me think that he hit the “freshman wall” last year. The only way that I can see this prediction being correct is if he puts too much pressure on himself and it affects his shooting, but I think that it is more likely that he will establish himself as the shooter that he was recruited to be.
Starting no....there's a good chance that jones and Gillis will be full time starters....but we'll find that Waddell at the 3 and heide at the 4 will be a productive lineup....they will play significant minutes there this year....
I can see the points on both sides - it's definitely one of the bigger variables, IMO. Of course it's all speculation, but I tend to agree with the freshman "wall" and some other factors, which could be overcome.
If you look at the early part of the conference season, Fletcher Loyer was a huge difference maker and handled himself well in pressure situations. Granted Purdue didn't come out on top, but he made the go-ahead basket late against Rutgers - only a failed Boiler defensive effort at the end spoiled that. He and Zach Edey made the big play to win in Columbus (with Morton also getting a key steal), and he was solid in East Lansing where Braden Smith got into foul trouble. Then what happened - conference teams started really getting physical with him on the perimeter on both ends of the floor.....hell, he was even fouled by an opposing coach (which is still unfathomable to me how that went down).
I think there was also a loss of confidence. I expect he will be better for it for having gone through some of the struggles last year. I'm fairly certain Matt Painter still believes very much in his ability and future. However, nothing is guaranteed, and tomorrow is promised to no one. We shall see, starting in a couple of weeks, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how he looks and responds this year.
Collins grabbing him at NU in the final plays of the game and having NOTHING happen (technical in game) or some sort of look by the B1G was wild. I wish Fletch would have got in his face more to bring attention to it and make the refs review it. Although…the refs that game and when NU played IU, allowed NU to mug every opposing player, so they probably wouldn’t have done anything tbh haha.
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