Fletch was a bright spot from deep - but if the 3 point shooting doesn't get better, or our guards fade in the backstretch of the season again, this is going to be a tough spring.
Anyone attend the 10/21 scrimmage?
- Thread starter northside100
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That's really not true with the win and move on game. One bad game and you are done, so this really isn't fair.
Purdue and Michigan State near the very top, and a bunch of others receiving votes. I think Illinois snuck into #25 in one poll. I think only 6 total got votes in the AP poll, so the conference might not be as deep as last year.
I think as fans it makes sense to put the NCAA Tournament aside for now and focus on the team and how it is performing in the moment. Last year, the issues started showing up well before the FDU game. What I want to see is consistent execution down the stretch in the Big Ten season and in the Big Ten Tournament, leading into the NCAA Tournament. Taken as a whole, last season was a great season and totally eclipsed pre-season expectations, but to say that there isn’t plenty of room to see significant improvement is totally not the case.
The thing is that last year’s team had some significant correctable issues down the stretch, especially with turnovers and shooting, but was so good in other areas that it earned a #1 seed, regardless. The upside of this team is huge if the players can just execute like they are capable of.
The thing is that last year’s team had some significant correctable issues down the stretch, especially with turnovers and shooting, but was so good in other areas that it earned a #1 seed, regardless. The upside of this team is huge if the players can just execute like they are capable of.
I think that has been the problem with the B1G's lack of NCAA tourney success lately. There haven't been that many good teams. Purdue last year and that Illinois team with Ayo and Kofi are really the only 2 that I think crapped the bed.
The last season a B1G made the FF was the 2019 tourney and the B1G had 3 or 4 teams as double digit seeds win games and 2 teams in the EE.
Yes it would, just like it was the 2 previous years when we lost to a 13 & 14.
Yeah, I have no idea where posters are getting their information. Nothing I have seen would suggest right now that the B1G is any better than it was last year. The exception may be MSU and that is why I said the very top of the conference might be better.
I look for more rock fights and ugly Jan-Feb games in the 60's. Typical B1G.
And I'm not sold on MSU being better, Hauser made MSU about 19 points per 100 possessions better on offense (while also making them about 4 points per 100 possessions worse on defense) and they didn't replace him.
they'll be in the thick of things as usual esp in BIG10 play. When you get into one of those 60 - 57 games they have enough to be n those kind of games. Hogard, Hall, and Walker are still there, Akins and the guy w/ the slanted head Cooper? should be improved, plus Booker and Mady the foul machine
You make a good point, but I think that Hall may be a better fit for what Izzo is trying to do with that team, especially defensively.
The guy w/the slanted head…I knew exactly who you meant and pictured it right away 😂 😂 😂
Thanks For Sharing your thoughts. Surprised that it appears Morton is showing signs of what we thought we were getting a couple of years ago. He was highly regarded coming out of HS and was starting to think he may have peaked early as an athlete.What I wrote elsewhere for my $.01
First it was great from a social perspective as I got to speak to 5 parents of players (2 parents of the wbb), one parent of a coach, a grandpa and great grandpa and grandma of a player. My wife says I would call her on the phone as she was walking around the concourse telling her to come back to the seats and watch her purse, because I see another person I wanted to talk with. So, it was nice to get into that basketball mood...and it felt good!!!!
I never kept score and can't recall who played with who which segment. I'll read all the other comments when I'm finished since I may forget some things now that I'm home. My thoughts are trying to get a bit on a few I was interested in seeing...and an uncle to a player asked if I could give him a scouting report and so I wanted to see him, but I wanted to view the team from a mile high as well as a bit of "general" focus on a few players.
First Zach is leaner and although I don't recall his improved quickness on D he dove once and you could tell he was quicker. That said it appeared to be that Purdue was playing at a faster pace than last year. In the first segment there were a lot of quick cuts and lane penetration and Zach fumbled a couple of times and missed some shots he will make. As in the past, the quickness on D around Zach caused him some issues, but he and Purdue will be better at the end of the year experiencing more of this inside Purdue practice than Zach having the lane and the rest behind the arc that Purdue likes to play, but the smaller scrappy teams have also given Purdue some trouble in the past.
I should preface all I'm about to say in that one viewing and one intrasquad scrimmage can give a lot of false readings. It seems Myles is a bit slower player and that could be due to a lot of things...one being quick inside structure (he is probably used to having the ball a lot of the time), but today he will need some time. Brian and Cam seemed a bit ahead on the 3, but I lean to Brian. Brian got a nice pass from Zach as he dove to the basket for two and Cam drove baseline once and dunked it from the other side of the rim. The segment they had Brian and Cam on the same team with Ethan playing PG they had Brian at the 2 and Cam at the 3 which goes along with the physical parts of Brian at the 3 and Cam at the 4, but in an intrasquad game players may play out of position. It did tell me what we suspect and that is Brian is a bit more perimeter oriented than Cam as far as handling the ball and defending more on the perimeter. Both will get some minutes, but if today was a sign of the future...Ethan will have a lot to say about playing time. Ethan showed today he belonged and if today is a representation...will get more minutes than many figured.
Braden is still a pass first player even though they want him to shoot more...and I expect him to shoot more, but he is sooooo good running the team. Still gets up in the air a bit too much, but we all know he will get plenty of minutes. Trey in warmups went 0/10 on FTs. However, unlike last year where the ball went off the back of the rim, now it hits the front. Must of been aware of his misses in the past. I know he hit a FT in the game and another went off the back of the rim. During warmups Trey did knock down a decent amount of 3s. I can't recall a high low between him and Zach, but can recall him driving the ball from the arc to the rim making a bucket and drawing a foul. Today, everything you read about Trey seems supported. He is going to get many minutes it appears at the 4. I can't recall any defensive issues with Trey at the 4, but again I'm trying to see too many players at a time.
Caleb is such an athlete. I think he had a strong flush, but was somewhat quiet much of the game. Berg is coming along. I think there is reason to believe he will contribute...just not this year. He moves pretty well and maybe got a nice dunk? Mason looks good shooting other than jumping forward a bit, but he missed a few and maybe made one...two??? He did put the ball on the court and drove into the lane and I think gave it up. It was good to see the fours put the ball on the court a bit.
As I said Ethan was solid today. Lance, he shot well today even though his off hand goes forward quite a bit giving the appearance of some what two handed, but I love his D. He is going to help Purdue ...especially if he can shoot like he did. He went coast to coast in about 4 seconds and just barely had the ball roll off the rim. He is going to play a lot and "maybe" most and at least "some" of that lot is with Braden, but Braden still runs the offense. Fletch was solid driving and shooting.
"IF" today is an accurate representation of the season. Braden, Lance, Fletcher, Ethan, Trey and Zach are going to absorb a lot of minutes. Arkansas will be a good opening game. They appear to be an old team. I had to write down some thoughts before I started reading and forgot a few more things...
All I can say is he played well and looked confident and very comfortable.
6-11 in Quad 1 games last year. They had an impressive win versus Marquette in the NCAAT and agree that they'll be factor in the Big Ten race, but someone would really have to blow up for that to be an elite team.
Maybe Morton will be one in the long line of players that for whatever reason (experience, confidence, etc.) the game slows down for them and they excel junior/senior year. We've seen them at Purdue and at other schools. Paul Mulcahy is a recent example to me.
Edit: Hoggard is definitely a possibility to fit into this category this year too.
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I didn't get to go to fan day this year. So I'm hearing repetitiously he played well. Hope he keeps it up. Where is Matt gonna find the minutes for all of this talent?
#3 ranked recruiting class. Plus their returning guys will make improvements, or at least that is what I hear happens to returning players... I will be very surprised if they don't push us or even beat us for the conference title.
But after those 2 teams, the B1G doesn't have much at least not right now. Illinois is probably next and they barely sniffed the 1st AP poll.
I have NEVER been high on Malik Hall and I don't care what he was rated coming out of high school. He has not lived up to that at MSU. You can look up what he has done for the team to back up what I am saying here . Walker and Hoggard are the two that seem to play very well against us.
Did someone say Hall was very good? Maybe I missed something, but I don't know what your point is about Hall??
Now if you're saying he can't have a different outcome for his Senior year because he's not lived up to expectations so far, then you must also think Morton can't get better this year.
The #3 ranked class for MSU is the incoming class this season.
Who are the two guards in that #3 recruiting class going to play over? Izzo has already alluded to the fact that Booker isn't ready this year and in any case if Booker is a difference maker at MSU it will be the first time that he's been a difference maker at any level. Sounds like he's a decent kid but he's 95% potential and 5% production.
Pointing to that high ranking recruiting class is laziness by the national media.
Assuming you're alluding to Purdue's players getting better that's a silly statement. Yes MSU's returners will likely improve but Hall, Walker and Hoggard are already 23 and Sissoko will be 23 in December.
Not exactly the same as the jump you'd expect to see from two guys moving from their true freshmen to a sophomore seasons.
There could be games some don't play or play very little
I would argue we played a bad game because we were tight. Which is mental.
Got guys with the yips out there.
Won’t know if we’ve gotten rid of that until the next Win or go home situation.
I agree with you.
I'm not really sure that I care how comfortable Morton looked with the ball. If he's getting minutes at the 1 or 2 he'll be replacing Smith or Loyer. Unless he's an upgrade over Jones it really doesn't matter that much to me.
Like many others I tend to overreact to each piece of information I get this time of year but once again we shot 27% from 3 during the scrimmage. It's just not good enough.
Fun Facts from last year:
- Purdue shot 33% or under from three in 17 out of their 35 games.
- Purdue did not lose a game in which it shot greater than 33% from 3.
- In B1G games we were 5 and 5 when shooting 33% or under.
- In those five wins we won by an average of 3 points
- We shot 19.2% from 3 vs FDU.
I wouldn’t read much into team stats in an intrasquad scrimmage. After all, Purdue is on both sides of the ball and team stats are skewed by minutes and shots distributions, etc. I think that you may be able to gather some things by watching the scrimmage or maybe even by looking at individual stats, but team stats don’t tell you much at all, in my opinion.
Agree with much of that. The only thing I'd say is that, as another poster indicated, I'd try to figure out what I can gather from the 10 for 38 from three in the scrimmage rather than just looking at it in aggregate.
My two cents:
- Smith, Loyer and Jones combined to go 7 for 17 (41%) - I'll take that any day. Those three seem likely to be our highest volume three point shooters unless someone steps up at the 3 or 4. If they can shoot a consistent percentage on good looks it goes a long way towards eliminating those down game you reference.
- Mason was 2 for 8 - only one scrimmage but that's not an encouraging data point. Love Mason's toughness but hope there is someone else playing better if he can't consistently shoot a high percentage.
- Rest of the team was 1 for 13 - Myles needs to do other things well and not force shots if he's not shooting well. We'll find out early in the season if Trey can shoot in the 35% range. If not his minutes with Zach may be limited. Brian just has to shoot better. Will see if Ethan can shoot in the mid 30's+ on lower volume than last year.
- Trey - 1 for 4
- Myles - 0 for 5
- Waddell - 0 for 3
- Ethan - 0 for 1
- No attempts from Cam or Caleb. Good to see them not force things, maybe they can bet part of the solution for better shooting at the 3 and 4.
I agree. One scrimmage means nothing.
But I'm trying to figure out what's changed from last year that would make Purdue a better 3-point shooting team and I'd like to see some indication that things have improved. If we stick with our returners from last year and play TKR more with Edey, I don't see where the better perimeter shooting is going to come from. Smith is already shooting at a decent clip, I doubt TKR will be an improvement in that area compared to what Gillis gave us. Edey is Edey, so that leaves the three spot and Loyer. I think Loyer can shoot better but I was hoping we would get help in that area from the three spot. The idea that Colvin, Heide, Morton and Waddell made zero threes during the scrimmage doesn't give me confidence that the problem is solved.
Izzo has already tempered expectations on Booker. If I can find the article I’ll post it but TLDR, needs to develop and get stronger. Won’t expect him to get meaningful minutes.
Jaxon Kohler is out until December/January because of foot issues.
someones top 50 preseason was discussed HERE and it has 9 Big 10 teams in a top 50. Including iu at 49. Now 50 isnt' a huge statement, but 9 out of 50 nationally is pretty good for any conference.
unless the light turns on for them like it does many seniors seeing the end of their hoops careers coming.
Actually the poster did mention a few players that were back, so if you are not meaning they were good, then why mention him if you aren't gonna list everybody who is back? And yes I have heard from others that state him as " being good". Since we are talking about what you did or didn't say, did I mention Morton at all? I wasn't talking about your post either. In fact I didn't see your post.
Was looking for this info and was going to post the same, thanks Beef.
Anyone who followed Booker's recruitment would be familiar with his motor and skill, or lack thereof. All the talent in the world but only gave a crap for about 2 months in March/April in 2022 and tore it up. Leading to him flying up rankings boards because if he does turn it on he can definitely be a difference maker.
Sissoko is one of the worst big men at MSU I can remember, Kohler I think is pretty good, and him being out with foot issues is bad news. Hate foot issues for big guys.
I think MSU is going to be a BAD rebounding team. A Tom Izzo coached, MSU team, is going to be BAD at rebounding.
I might argue that 'many' is hyperbolic but agree, it could happen. Certainly happens much less often that seeing a significant improvement between freshman and sophomore year but you're right, I'm just looking at trends, players and teams buck trends all the time.
Think it was the Kenpom discussion....but it was actually ten conference schools if you go through the list:
Purdue (1), Michigan State (13), Illinois (19), Wisconsin (20), Maryland (22), Ohio State (35), Northwestern (40), Michigan (44), Indiana (49), and Iowa (50).
Hey, wait a minute......Ten, Big Ten? is there some similarity there?
https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/ken-pom-rankings-out.244234/
I really think that Loyer is the biggest key as far as three point shooting, as I see him as one of the primary scoring options, along with Edey and hopefully TKR. If Loyer can shoot like he did in the first part of last season, that immediately makes Purdue significantly more effective on offense, even if nothing else changes. I also think his consistency will take a little bit of pressure off of everyone else.
Good stuff, this points to the view that the Big Ten is not bad but is profoundly mediocre. I.e. if you use this as proxy for expected NCAAT performance you have five first round wins, two Sweet Sixteen teams and one team expected to go beyond that.
I wonder how long it’s been since the Big Ten has had a KenPom pre-season #1 team. I would bet that it has been a long time and that even pre-season top 5 teams are few and far between. The Big Ten has had many good teams, but not many great teams, over the past 20 years or so. I think it’s pretty awesome for Purdue to be in this position, even if it doesn’t mean much.
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