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A little bit of locker motivation material for Boogie...

JohnnyDoeBoiler said:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...455/100-days-champions-classic-2018-19-season

Listing off the top returning players around the country and although Ethan Happ is mentioned...Boogie is not. Carsen doesn’t appear to need much motivation but this surely wouldn’t hurt to give him a bit of a push going in to the final stretch of off season prep and conditioning.
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I agree...Carsen is self motivated it seems. He understands many that write know little about the game, but still probably feels a bit underappreciated. I would love to see Carsen "develop" as much between his soph year and jr year as he did between the freshman year and soph...if that is even possible? What a huge improvement in his play. Let's hope a few players "develop" from last year and provide a stroke to open the court so he can drive as well
 
tjreese said:
I agree...Carsen is self motivated it seems. He understands many that write know little about the game, but still probably feels a bit underappreciated. I would love to see Carsen "develop" as much between his soph year and jr year as he did between the freshman year and soph...if that is even possible? What a huge improvement in his play. Let's hope a few players "develop" from last year and provide a stroke to open the court so he can drive as well
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When did you become a troll?

Leave the commentary from the TJD post on that post.
 
ChoiceBeef said:
When did you become a troll?

Leave the commentary from the TJD post on that post.
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not a troll..not sure why you are upset. Carsen made HUGE improvements as a player between year 1 and 2 and hope he does the same between 2 and 3. There are many players that develop and improve over their four years at schools unnoticed by some. Did you not notice his development? Where would a "troll" comment arise?
 
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tjreese said:
not a troll..not sure why you are upset. Carsen made HUGE improvements as a player between year 1 and 2 and hope he does the same between 2 and 3. There are many players that develop and improve over their four years at schools unnoticed by some. Did you not notice his development? Where would a "troll" comment arise?
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“Perhaps” “it” “is” “because” “you” “put” “quotes” “around” “development” “every” “time” “you” “used” “the” “word” “?”

You are inviting an argument. I have a level of respect for you and your postings and constantly emphasizing development is a troll move and you know it.
 
Carsen liked this post - I am sure he has enough bulletin board material to push him.

 
ChoiceBeef said:
“Perhaps” “it” “is” “because” “you” “put” “quotes” “around” “development” “every” “time” “you” “used” “the” “word” “?”

You are inviting an argument. I have a level of respect for you and your postings and constantly emphasizing development is a troll move and you know it.
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not at all..it only became apparent to me that some do not know development when it happens...it is missed. Part of Carsen's accomplishments and views towards him in developing will be due to others developing. There is no trolling...just trying to make more aware that are apparently missing development. Can we not say Dakota developed a lot...defensively especially? Can we not say Cline developed a lot on off ball D as well. I thought "ALL" saw development in players over the years. Did ZO not make huge improvements in shooting? Did biggie not improve his stroke between year one and two? There are many others...
 
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tjreese said:
not at all..it only became apparent to me that some do not know development when it happens...it is missed. Part of Carsen's accomplishments and views towards him in developing will be due to others developing. There is no trolling...just trying to make more aware that are apparently missing development. Can we not say Dakota developed a lot...defensively especially? Can we not say Cline developed a lot on off ball D as well. I thought "ALL" saw development in players over the years. Did ZO not make huge improvements in shooting? Did biggie not improve his stroke between year one and two? There are many others...
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I agree that all these players made developments but you knowingly went out of your way to bring the argument you were losing on the TJD post to another post.
 
ChoiceBeef said:
I agree that all these players made developments but you knowingly went out of your way to bring the argument you were losing on the TJD post to another post.
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Losing? ;) JohnnyDoe Boiler knows development of players happens when others may not. He knows that development must have at least two data points and an illogical assumption that a single data point could begin to define it. No trolling and have NEVER had an argument or even aware of a disagreement with JOhnny Doe Boiler...no trolling here, but curious why you are so sensitive...rhetorical only.

AGain, I hope Carsen continues to make huge improvements and develop, but the potential for that gain has less opportunity than before. I have no desire to have any argument. I hope others make huge strides as well...
 
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tjreese said:
Losing? ;) JohnnyDoe Boiler knows development of players happens when others may not. He knows that development must have at least two data points and an illogical assumption that a single data point could begin to define it. No trolling over hear and have NEVER had an argument or even aware of a disagreement with JOhnny Doe Boiler...no trolling here, but curious why you are so sensitive...rhetorical only.

AGain, I hope Carsen continues to make huge improvements and develop, but the potential for that gain has less opportunity than before. I have no desire to have any argument. I hope others make huge strides as well...
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Again I respect your opinions and posts for the most part but you knowingly and intentionally brought that argument here by over emphasizing the world development.

Don’t lose credibility by trying to stir up fights.
 
According the PurdueSports press release from a couple of weeks ago, I think Carsen will be in attendance at the Nike Basketball Academy camp that starts today. He was at Chris Paul's CP3 Elite Guard Camp last week. Both of those exclusive camps only invite ~20 college players and a number of HS players to participate.

I couldn't find many write-ups from last week's CP3 camp, but I did find Carsen singled out on some site called PhenomHoopReport [the Big 12 typo at the end is theirs]:

Carsen Edwards Competitiveness Really Shined
Edwards was more quiet in his approach, but never the less his competitive toughness shined brightly. Built like a bowling ball (6’/205), Edwards just kept coming at you on both ends. Rebounding, he threw his body into play every time. On defense he sat low and in space. Offensively, he wanted the ball in his hands and he continued to make plays time and time again. He should be in the running for Big 12 Player of the Year this season.
 
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02Boilermaker said:
According the PurdueSports press release from a couple of weeks ago, I think Carsen will be in attendance at the Nike Basketball Academy camp that starts today. He was at Chris Paul's CP3 Elite Guard Camp last week. Both of those exclusive camps only invite ~20 college players and a number of HS players to participate.

I couldn't find many write-ups from last week's CP3 camp, but I did find Carsen singled out on some site called PhenomHoopReport [the Big 12 typo at the end is theirs]:

Carsen Edwards Competitiveness Really Shined
Edwards was more quiet in his approach, but never the less his competitive toughness shined brightly. Built like a bowling ball (6’/205), Edwards just kept coming at you on both ends. Rebounding, he threw his body into play every time. On defense he sat low and in space. Offensively, he wanted the ball in his hands and he continued to make plays time and time again. He should be in the running for Big 12 Player of the Year this season.
Click to expand...
regarding Carsen..."He should be in the running for Big 12 Player of the Year this season."
 
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ChoiceBeef said:
Again I respect your opinions and posts for the most part but you knowingly and intentionally brought that argument here by over emphasizing the world development.

Don’t lose credibility by trying to stir up fights.
Click to expand...
NOBODY is trying to stir up a fight. I enjoy JOhnnyDoe Boiler's comments. there is no fight intended and not sure why you are intent is stating there is. I spent more than a few hours trying to explain to a few a zone and such...and no fight was intended. It became obvious to me that development is also not understood and showed with TVAAS that it wasn't a new misunderstanding. Sure I wasted a lot of text in explaining a zone and asking what kind of zone would be used...how it differed from man and match-up. Some were probably right there with me, but others I'm sure never got it...same with "development" in how it was measured. There is quite a spectrum in understanding in every forum. Pointing out errors should not be considered as trying to start a fight. AGain, I enjoy Johnny's comments quite often.
 
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I appreciate that
BoiledSteel said:
The only person taking issue with this is you. tjreese is the furthest thing from a troll on here.
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Thank you and mathboys comments in another poll. I am very busy and have no intention of "trolling" anyone. Some things are just really hard to digest for me.
 
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02Boilermaker said:
According the PurdueSports press release from a couple of weeks ago, I think Carsen will be in attendance at the Nike Basketball Academy camp that starts today. He was at Chris Paul's CP3 Elite Guard Camp last week. Both of those exclusive camps only invite ~20 college players and a number of HS players to participate.

I couldn't find many write-ups from last week's CP3 camp, but I did find Carsen singled out on some site called PhenomHoopReport [the Big 12 typo at the end is theirs]:

Carsen Edwards Competitiveness Really Shined
Edwards was more quiet in his approach, but never the less his competitive toughness shined brightly. Built like a bowling ball (6’/205), Edwards just kept coming at you on both ends. Rebounding, he threw his body into play every time. On defense he sat low and in space. Offensively, he wanted the ball in his hands and he continued to make plays time and time again. He should be in the running for Big 12 Player of the Year this season.
Click to expand...

Wait, Carsen is getting professional training outside of Purdue? I thought only Victor Oladipo did that because IU didn't know what to do with him and that's why IU wasn't credited with his development? Or at least I was told that yesterday. JOKE
 
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Frankie611 said:
So I assume they are saying Romeo is better despite not playing a minute yet, but who is this Russian bot calling #2?
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I have not watched Romeo. Can he stroke it or is his game mostly getting to the rim? If Newman could D him up I think Nojel can hold his own...
 
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Frankie611 said:
So I assume they are saying Romeo is better despite not playing a minute yet, but who is this Russian bot calling #2?
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Not sure but maybe he is talking about Morgan and possible Jerome Hunter (incoming freshman)?

Not really sure but Carsen liked it and I’m sure he won’t be forgetting
 
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Frankie611 said:
Man, this one turned into a shitposting contest in record time!
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iu fans tend to have that impact here. Quite honestly that is why I have all but given up on the quality discussions here other than with a few people. I don't start the sh!tposting but I sure will correct those that do.

Anyway, I'm gonna do my part in this thread and not drag it out from my end. What others do though is on them.
 
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tjreese said:
not at all..it only became apparent to me that some do not know development when it happens...it is missed. Part of Carsen's accomplishments and views towards him in developing will be due to others developing. There is no trolling...just trying to make more aware that are apparently missing development. Can we not say Dakota developed a lot...defensively especially? Can we not say Cline developed a lot on off ball D as well. I thought "ALL" saw development in players over the years. Did ZO not make huge improvements in shooting? Did biggie not improve his stroke between year one and two? There are many others...
Click to expand...
Yes, all of those guys made big jumps. They were also 4 year players. Comparing their development across 4 years to Zeller, Vonleh, Bryant, or OG who were only at IU for two years is inaccurate. For the record though, Vonleh and Bryant came in with no outside shot. Both left IU as 40%+ 3pt shooters. That's "development". Can you honestly sit here and say that OG's skill didn't astronomically improve from the time he stepped on campus as a freshman to the time he got hurt as a sophomore? I can provide you with stats to back it up. Did Yogi not make massive strides as a player during his career? Watford? Hulls? Troy Williams? Juwan Morgan?

The point was never that Purdue wasn't a good developer of talent. It's that they weren't head and shoulders better than any of the other top programs in the big ten.

If you are about to say something blasphemous like "crean had nothing to do with their development", then the same logic can be applied to Painter.
 
Wolegib said:
What we have here is a developing situation! Or is it just a total misunderstanding? Or perhaps a new development in forum posting?
Click to expand...
any change is developing in some direction...assuming there is no misunderstanding a change hasn't occurred... ;)
 
NC_Trojan10 said:
Yes, all of those guys made big jumps. They were also 4 year players. Comparing their development across 4 years to Zeller, Vonleh, Bryant, or OG who were only at IU for two years is inaccurate. For the record though, Vonleh and Bryant came in with no outside shot. Both left IU as 40%+ 3pt shooters. That's "development". Can you honestly sit here and say that OG's skill didn't astronomically improve from the time he stepped on campus as a freshman to the time he got hurt as a sophomore? I can provide you with stats to back it up. Did Yogi not make massive strides as a player during his career? Watford? Hulls? Troy Williams? Juwan Morgan?

The point was never that Purdue wasn't a good developer of talent. It's that they weren't head and shoulders better than any of the other top programs in the big ten.

If you are about to say something blasphemous like "crean had nothing to do with their development", then the same logic can be applied to Painter.
Click to expand...
Did I read somewhere that you were in your 20s? I'm done with this. You ,nor others do NOT need my agreement for any confirmation. I took exception that being a pro BIG in teh NBA was due to IU development..and as I've stated...players develop all the time and don't get drafted. This is a puerile topic that defies measurement of any delta in any event let alone the relationships establishing that event. People can believe anything they want...I'm fine with that. I only sought to explain...but not continue explaining because it is NOT that important...it really isn't...
 
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tjreese said:
I took exception that being a pro BIG in teh NBA was due to IU development..and as I've stated...players develop all the time and don't get drafted.
Click to expand...

You can absolutely develop and still not get drafted. I would venture to say most D1 college basketball players get better from the time they step on campus and by the time they leave. You made the ridiculous statement that IU or Crean didn't develop their bigs because they came into college already with NBA protential. It's an acutely dumb rhetoric and why you got called out on it.
 
Bay Area Boiler said:
You can absolutely develop and still not get drafted. I would venture to say most D1 college basketball players get better from the time they step on campus and by the time they leave. You made the ridiculous statement that IU or Crean didn't develop their bigs because they came into college already with NBA protential. It's an acutely dumb rhetoric and why you got called out on it.
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yeah, I think you got it all in context...puerile waste of time
 
JohnnyDoeBoiler said:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...455/100-days-champions-classic-2018-19-season

Listing off the top returning players around the country and although Ethan Happ is mentioned...Boogie is not. Carsen doesn’t appear to need much motivation but this surely wouldn’t hurt to give him a bit of a push going in to the final stretch of off season prep and conditioning.
Click to expand...

I'm to the point that I can't really put any stock in anything ESPN says or posts anymore. They're opinions are usually ridiculous and uninformed. If they had made a list of the top 20 returning players and not listed Carsen, I would say they're crazy. This article doesn't really do that though, they were just hand picking a few guys to talk about and they chose to talk about Happ rather than Carsen. Happ is the only BIG player they even mentioned.
 
tjreese said:
Did I read somewhere that you were in your 20s? I'm done with this. You ,nor others do NOT need my agreement for any confirmation. I took exception that being a pro BIG in teh NBA was due to IU development..and as I've stated...players develop all the time and don't get drafted. This is a puerile topic that defies measurement of any delta in any event let alone the relationships establishing that event. People can believe anything they want...I'm fine with that. I only sought to explain...but not continue explaining because it is NOT that important...it really isn't...
Click to expand...
Not sure what me being 24 has to do with anything. I never meant to imply that those pro bigs were only there because of IU. Another poster said TJD's choice was easy given "Painter's abilities to get bigs to the pros" (sounds very similar to me saying IU is PUTTING bigs in the NBA), so I responded that IU had just as many bigs in the pros.

Both Purdue and IU give their players the resources to improve. It's up to the individual players to take advantage of those resources. Players like Mathias and Yogi did. Players like Smotherman and Hanner Perea didnt.
 
I would hope all players improve their game over the course of their college career whether it be 1 year or 4. ultimately, that improvement has to come from within. A great coach cannot teach if the player doesn't want to listen or learn.

and unfortunately many players do listen, learn and improve, yet their improvement is still not to the level of the established bar. the NBA only accepts about 40 new players a year, with about 10 of those vacancies left open for foreign players. A lot of dreams have been killed. the simple reality is sometimes just being able to accept reality. Many players never do.
 
cheeseman18 said:
Yeah...not sure what that guy was trying to say. Romeo and Juwan? Somebody from ND? Butler? Not sure. These are the people that give IU fans a bad rap.
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Every fan base has those guys on Twitter who make them look bad - just check the replies when that kid decommited from Kentucky a few weeks ago....yikes
 
NC_Trojan10 said:
Not sure what me being 24 has to do with anything. I never meant to imply that those pro bigs were only there because of IU. Another poster said TJD's choice was easy given "Painter's abilities to get bigs to the pros" (sounds very similar to me saying IU is PUTTING bigs in the NBA), so I responded that IU had just as many bigs in the pros.

Both Purdue and IU give their players the resources to improve. It's up to the individual players to take advantage of those resources. Players like Mathias and Yogi did. Players like Smotherman and Hanner Perea didnt.
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I have no issue with any of that...although Purdue has included the bigs in the offense quite a bit more. WE shall see how Morgan turns out...he was pretty good as a freshman...at least in the purdue games and made huge strides last year. Youth has one perspective and extra years another...
 
Wolegib said:
I would hope all players improve their game over the course of their college career whether it be 1 year or 4. ultimately, that improvement has to come from within. A great coach cannot teach if the player doesn't want to listen or learn.

and unfortunately many players do listen, learn and improve, yet their improvement is still not to the level of the established bar. the NBA only accepts about 40 new players a year, with about 10 of those vacancies left open for foreign players. A lot of dreams have been killed. the simple reality is sometimes just being able to accept reality. Many players never do.
Click to expand...
work ethic and/or attitude has a lot to do with improvement, but like a ceiling academically may be in place with IQ...athleticism is a limiting factor in basketball to some extent. Different coaches recruit different styles and players or have in the past. Teh shot clock eliminates some variety and so with the game being more one dimensional, the players and style will become more similar. Athletes have always had value in basketball, but perhaps not as much years ago as today...due to the clock...and skill without athletic ability is hard to find in NBA players.
 
cheeseman18 said:
I'm to the point that I can't really put any stock in anything ESPN says or posts anymore. They're opinions are usually ridiculous and uninformed. If they had made a list of the top 20 returning players and not listed Carsen, I would say they're crazy. This article doesn't really do that though, they were just hand picking a few guys to talk about and they chose to talk about Happ rather than Carsen. Happ is the only BIG player they even mentioned.
Click to expand...
Remember that ESPN disrespecting and downplaying BIG teams and BIG players has financial motivation. I never trust ESPN to be truthful and comprehensive because of their rivalry with the BIG 10 Network.
 
NC_Trojan10 said:
Not sure what me being 24 has to do with anything. I never meant to imply that those pro bigs were only there because of IU. Another poster said TJD's choice was easy given "Painter's abilities to get bigs to the pros" (sounds very similar to me saying IU is PUTTING bigs in the NBA), so I responded that IU had just as many bigs in the pros.

Both Purdue and IU give their players the resources to improve. It's up to the individual players to take advantage of those resources. Players like Mathias and Yogi did. Players like Smotherman and Hanner Perea didnt.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Coaching is one thing and some of it is better or worse. The largest part of player development is on the player.
 
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mathboy said:
Remember that ESPN disrespecting and downplaying BIG teams and BIG players has financial motivation. I never trust ESPN to be truthful and comprehensive because of their rivalry with the BIG 10 Network.
Click to expand...

Agreed. ESPN is the ACC’s and Big 12’s mouthpiece when it comes to basketball, just like it is for football with the SEC. Don’t get me wrong, Trae Young had an unbelievable season last year but ESPN glorified him way too much. Oklahoma played some god awful basketball to end the year last year.

I expect Carsen to have a Trae Young level type role this coming year, but do it a lot more efficiently. Wonder how much BTN/Fox can campaign and influence Carsen for NPOY.
 
mathboy said:
Remember that ESPN disrespecting and downplaying BIG teams and BIG players has financial motivation. I never trust ESPN to be truthful and comprehensive because of their rivalry with the BIG 10 Network.
Click to expand...
They have also always been aligned with east coast basketball. They have been instrumental in perpetuating the idea that the B1G plays slow, plodding basketball.
 
ChoiceBeef said:
Again I respect your opinions and posts for the most part but you knowingly and intentionally brought that argument here by over emphasizing the world development.

Don’t lose credibility by trying to stir up fights.
Click to expand...
looks to me like you are being the troll
 
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