2016-17 vs. 2017-18 Purdue

[Purdue0034]

I think the original question has some merit as one metric in trying to determining if your program is improving. Final results at the end of the season is another way to assess if you are getting better. You do want to try and keep up with the pace of your competition. So if your competition is also improving, you are only going to be more successful in general (not counting luck) if you improve more than your competition. So back to the original question, just comparing last year's team as our competition, who would win? You have to look at each player from one year to the next, also look at what players we lost and what players we added. To me the deciding factor in my judgement is the improvement in the returning players and their additional experience. My optimism wants this year's team to beat last year's team, to say we are a better team this year. I would say without a doubt across the board our top 6 returning players from last year's team (CE, VE, DM, IH, PJ, RC) are significantly improved and noticeably better than last year. Whether its free throw shooting, field goal percentage, shot selection, turnovers, 3 point shooting, defensive skill and skill level in the individual player, etc. Without doing an in-depth statistical breakdown, just the eye test, I think all 6 of our players mentioned above are much improved. Add to this more experience, the addition of Haarms and Eastern, the availability of Taylor, solid minutes from Eifert, I think the answer is all of these things together make up for the loss of Biggie and that in my opinion this year's team would beat last year's team. You want a predicted score?

2017-2018 Purdue: 68
2016-2017 Purdue: 64

(PJ with 4 free-throws in the final minute to seal the victory for the 2017-2018 Boilers!)

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[Pistolman]

uh, yup. Not just a starter, but a star.

Not sure with the "star" analogy. I think he was a "star" on his high school team but don't think that will evolve to higher game. I think Cline's game is improving and that bodes well next year. He will be a senior and obviously looking at this year the experience means everything. It will be something just as important next year being so young. I can see him starting on B10 teams but being the star not seeing. Up until this year I see Ryne Smith from him. Great spot up shooting but want more. RS just couldn't get his shot off once teams starting respecting so much. Same with Cline until this year so why you're seeing him drive to the basket more. Phenomenal shooter and will have a solid senior season next but not a star in college ranks.

uh, yup. Not just a starter, but a star.

 

[Purdue85]

Not sure with the "star" analogy. I think he was a "star" on his high school team but don't think that will evolve to higher game. I think Cline's game is improving and that bodes well next year. He will be a senior and obviously looking at this year the experience means everything. It will be something just as important next year being so young. I can see him starting on B10 teams but being the star not seeing. Up until this year I see Ryne Smith from him. Great spot up shooting but want more. RS just couldn't get his shot off once teams starting respecting so much. Same with Cline until this year so why you're seeing him drive to the basket more. Phenomenal shooter and will have a solid senior season next but not a star in college ranks.

One example: if he were playing in Gloomington, with all their shooting woes, he would absolutely be a star on that team.

 

[jadeezra]

 

[Wolegib]

to compare the two teams. I'm not really sure Dakota, PJ or Vince are really any better this year than they were last year. Obviously, with biggie gone, they are all getting more chances to shoot and more opportunities to grab a rebound. Last year, they performed as role players, and were awesome at it.. Does that mean they are actually any better this year?

Vince had some great games last year, and also disappeared early in the season. I'd say he's as good this year as he was the second half of last year. is that really an improvement?

I think of PJ as our PG, but I see others getting more assists. To me, PJ reached a nice level last year, and he's maintained that level. Remember the guy who last year and this Summer kept talking about PJ's awesome TO to Assist ratio? is PJ's To to assist ratio any different?

Dakota had some great games last year and some great games this year. Some said last year he was deserving of being on the BIG 10 all defensive team. I look at him as the glue of the team.

All of last year and during the Summer, there would be some poster who would keep using per minute stats and kept trying to project what Haas' stats would be if he played 40 minutes. his projected stats for Haas last year if given more playing time far exceed Haas' actual production. So has Haas actually improved?

Haas is not as aggressive at rebounding as biggie was. Haas had an interview last year where he said that sometimes he would defer getting a rebound to ensure biggie got his double / double. Yes, Haas actually said that. Without biggie, Haas still seems to be deferring to others getting rebounds. This year, he seems to be deferring sometimes to Edwards.

Carsen has improved.

Cline is much like Haas. he has received more playing time, but is doing basically the same things he did last year. I guess you could say his defense has improved.

Since Cline is still the first guard coming off the bench. I'm not sure who to compare Eastern with - Spike?

is this year's Taylor better than last year's Taylor ? because of his limited time, and because he was injured once again it's hard to say and also hard to predict if he will re-injure himself. Many have said he seems to be rusty this year. .

Without biggie, our 4 seniors are playing more minutes, and putting up more of their own shots. They each had defined roles last year. If biggie was not on the team last year, I believe you would have seen Dakota, has, PJ and Edwards step up their game to the level you are currently seeing. But with biggie, they filled supporting roles. Does that mean they are better this year? Rather than saying they've improved, or that they were holding back last year, i'll leave with this last comment.

I believe this year's seniors have finally received an opportunity to display their talents. it's very hard to improve on last year's tremendous season,

 

[beenther1s]

One thing to consider, some of the games we lost, we went to Biggie at the end and he lost the ball or threw up a wild shot. That is not going to happen with this years team.

 

[jadeezra]

I'll take all the seniors this year, last years team was good. But as good as Caleb Swanigan was he was a defenive liability. He had close to zero shot blocking and couldn't defend a 3, 4 or 5. Just my opinoion

 

[Treed1967]

to compare the two teams. I'm not really sure Dakota, PJ or Vince are really any better this year than they were last year. Obviously, with biggie gone, they are all getting more chances to shoot and more opportunities to grab a rebound. Last year, they performed as role players, and were awesome at it.. Does that mean they are actually any better this year?

Vince had some great games last year, and also disappeared early in the season. I'd say he's as good this year as he was the second half of last year. is that really an improvement?

I think of PJ as our PG, but I see others getting more assists. To me, PJ reached a nice level last year, and he's maintained that level. Remember the guy who last year and this Summer kept talking about PJ's awesome TO to Assist ratio? is PJ's To to assist ratio any different?

Dakota had some great games last year and some great games this year. Some said last year he was deserving of being on the BIG 10 all defensive team. I look at him as the glue of the team.

All of last year and during the Summer, there would be some poster who would keep using per minute stats and kept trying to project what Haas' stats would be if he played 40 minutes. his projected stats for Haas last year if given more playing time far exceed Haas' actual production. So has Haas actually improved?

Haas is not as aggressive at rebounding as biggie was. Haas had an interview last year where he said that sometimes he would defer getting a rebound to ensure biggie got his double / double. Yes, Haas actually said that. Without biggie, Haas still seems to be deferring to others getting rebounds. This year, he seems to be deferring sometimes to Edwards.

Carsen has improved.

Cline is much like Haas. he has received more playing time, but is doing basically the same things he did last year. I guess you could say his defense has improved.

Since Cline is still the first guard coming off the bench. I'm not sure who to compare Eastern with - Spike?

is this year's Taylor better than last year's Taylor ? because of his limited time, and because he was injured once again it's hard to say and also hard to predict if he will re-injure himself. Many have said he seems to be rusty this year. .

Without biggie, our 4 seniors are playing more minutes, and putting up more of their own shots. They each had defined roles last year. If biggie was not on the team last year, I believe you would have seen Dakota, has, PJ and Edwards step up their game to the level you are currently seeing. But with biggie, they filled supporting roles. Does that mean they are better this year? Rather than saying they've improved, or that they were holding back last year, i'll leave with this last comment.

I believe this year's seniors have finally received an opportunity to display their talents. it's very hard to improve on last year's tremendous season,

Great analysis I like what you wrote. As for Nojel he is fine. I will say it’s hard for any player to get into a rhythm when you only getting 8 min of playing time. He’s a play making 6”7 220 pound athletic guard that can play and defend multiple positions but has to wait his turn to showcase his skills. Good thing is his confidence is back he’s playing within himself now with the min he do get and he’s working hard everyday on his game to get better. This is a great team with 4 seniors who have grown together as 1 and this system works so well for them as you can see. Just not sure the system fits my son style of play but he is adjusting and figuring it out. Well hope you are having a wonderful day on this Christmas Day and I’m wishing you and all boiler fans a merry Christmas and happy New Year.

 

[Wolegib]

What I see is a team evolving! Taking advantage of each player's talents and strengths! This was predicted! We are no longer Biggie and the jets! We are Purdue!

 

[Wolegib]

Great analysis I like what you wrote. As for Nojel he is fine. I will say it’s hard for any player to get into a rhythm when you only getting 8 min of playing time. He’s a play making 6”7 220 pound athletic guard that can play and defend multiple positions but has to wait his turn to showcase his skills. Good thing is his confidence is back he’s playing within himself now with the min he do get and he’s working hard everyday on his game to get better. This is a great team with 4 seniors who have grown together as 1 and this system works so well for them as you can see. Just not sure the system fits my son style of play but he is adjusting and figuring it out. Well hope you are having a wonderful day on this Christmas Day and I’m wishing you and all boiler fans a merry Christmas and happy New Year.

Given I have no inside sources! But watching your son play, and watching Purdue play, I believe your son will have a more defined role next year to take better advantage of his talents. And I believe Purdue's offensive style of play will also change! We're starting to see a shift from a down low post offense to a more prominent backcourt! Admittedly Haas will get his touches, but unlike the past, he is not our #1 option. Yes we have Williams and Dow coming, but I see next year focused on the strengths of our back court!

And contrary to myths and legends, Purdue has evolved into a faster tempo and higher scoring team than ever before. I remember the old days when Purdue scored 65 points and that was considered a high score!

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Great analysis I like what you wrote. As for Nojel he is fine. I will say it’s hard for any player to get into a rhythm when you only getting 8 min of playing time. He’s a play making 6”7 220 pound athletic guard that can play and defend multiple positions but has to wait his turn to showcase his skills. Good thing is his confidence is back he’s playing within himself now with the min he do get and he’s working hard everyday on his game to get better. This is a great team with 4 seniors who have grown together as 1 and this system works so well for them as you can see. Just not sure the system fits my son style of play but he is adjusting and figuring it out. Well hope you are having a wonderful day on this Christmas Day and I’m wishing you and all boiler fans a merry Christmas and happy New Year.

I think that Painter’s system will be perfect for Nojel as he continues to develop and after Isaac Haas graduates. With Haarms as the starting center next season, I see Painter incorporating a lot more slashing and less traditional post up offense.

The things that have held Nojel back this far this season, are not caused by the system. Painter has put Nojel in a position where he can succeed without being overburdened with responsibility and I like the way the Nojel has responded. I’ve seen many Big Ten freshman over the years and Nojel is in a very good place compared to most of them. I think that he is a year of hard work away from a breakout season.

 

[BoilerBiker]

This is a great team with 4 seniors who have grown together as 1 and this system works so well for them as you can see. Just not sure the system fits my son style of play but he is adjusting and figuring it out.

wonder how many expect this coming into year 1. and if there is an expectation on having abrupt changes made during one offseason to accommodate the next year, especially with a roster and recruits that can change.

Given I have no inside sources! But watching your son play, and watching Purdue play, I believe your son will have a more defined role next year to take better advantage of his talents. And I believe Purdue's offensive style of play will also change! We're starting to see a shift from a down low post offense to a more prominent backcourt! Admittedly Haas will get his touches, but unlike the past, he is not our #1 option. Yes we have Williams and Dow coming, but I see next year focused on the strengths of our back court!

And contrary to myths and legends, Purdue has evolved into a faster tempo and higher scoring team than ever before. I remember the old days when Purdue scored 65 points and that was considered a high score!

our tempo rank is down so far (152 vs 113 last year).

but like last year, the tempo is offset by the crazy scoring efficiency to get the higher point totals. not only making shots, but a lot of 3s and FTs. top 20 in FG%, 3FG%, 3FG made, FTs made.

was also interesting hearing hummel on a few different broadcasts, say how painters motion offense has changed since his playing time. will be interesting to see how much it may/may not change by next year too.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

our tempo rank is down so far (152 vs 113 last year).

but like last year, the tempo is offset by the crazy scoring efficiency to get the higher point totals. not only making shots, but a lot of 3s and FTs. top 20 in FG%, 3FG%, 3FG made, FTs made.

was also interesting hearing hummel on a few different broadcasts, say how painters motion offense has changed since his playing time. will be interesting to see how much it may/may not change by next year too.

I’m pretty sure that the tempo is down due to the way that Purdue is playing defense this year. It is really hard to get a good look once the half court defense is setup.

Also, I don’t have stats to prove it, but this year’s team seems to good job of limiting transition baskets off of turnovers.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

wonder how many expect this coming into year 1. and if there is an expectation on having abrupt changes made during one offseason to accommodate the next year, especially with a roster and recruits that can change.




our tempo rank is down so far (152 vs 113 last year).

but like last year, the tempo is offset by the crazy scoring efficiency to get the higher point totals. not only making shots, but a lot of 3s and FTs. top 20 in FG%, 3FG%, 3FG made, FTs made.

was also interesting hearing hummel on a few different broadcasts, say how painters motion offense has changed since his playing time. will be interesting to see how much it may/may not change by next year too.

Pay close attention to the motion weave that Purdue runs for most of their offense and the differences you can see when Haas is in versus Haarms. You will notice a lot of key differences in cuts, screens, and other action between the two. Without diving in to a need to scout, Haarms’ screens tend to be more on the wing which allow more freedom for the ball handler to feed Haarms on the roll or get to the rim versus Haas’ screens tend to be higher on the arc which allow him to dive vertically down the lane which allows him to gain post advantage easier with ball movement.

 

[Do Dah Day]

so, if we had a better record but didn't finish first, would you say we had a better team and accomplished more? I would say NO ! I believe championships are more important than a season's record. if we had a better record, but lost to IU, would you still say this was a better team?

I don't understand how you focus totally on how one team compares/competes with other teams to evaluate their "goodness," then won't compare our last year team vs our this year team. It seems a double standard.

The question is simply whether one team is a better team than another (well, and which one would win). There are a million examples of "down years" in every sport. If a team is great, and probably would have gone to the sweet 16 in year A. but loses to a better team, you would rate that a good team due to its lack of success.

If a team is pretty good, but exists within a year that there are not many teams that are very good, and that team beats other good teams to get to the sweet 16, then you rate that as a great because of betting good teams.

Yes, if we lose to IU, it will not change my rating of this team as great. The IU game has always been unpredictable and an aberration. I have coached way long enough to know there are those damn games ... those ****ing games ... that just are not representative of the team. Basketball is a game that is won by a lesser team somewhat often. It doesn't change how good that team is other than how good it was on that given night.

In your theory, there would be no upsets,the better team would always win ... how many upsets happened in december? Or are the vegas oddsmakers just all screwed up?

 

[Wolegib]

I don't understand how you focus totally on how one team compares/competes with other teams to evaluate their "goodness," then won't compare our last year team vs our this year team. It seems a double standard.

The question is simply whether one team is a better team than another (well, and which one would win). There are a million examples of "down years" in every sport. If a team is great, and probably would have gone to the sweet 16 in year A. but loses to a better team, you would rate that a good team due to its lack of success.

If a team is pretty good, but exists within a year that there are not many teams that are very good, and that team beats other good teams to get to the sweet 16, then you rate that as a great because of betting good teams.

Yes, if we lose to IU, it will not change my rating of this team as great. The IU game has always been unpredictable and an aberration. I have coached way long enough to know there are those damn games ... those ****ing games ... that just are not representative of the team. Basketball is a game that is won by a lesser team somewhat often. It doesn't change how good that team is other than how good it was on that given night.

In your theory, there would be no upsets,the better team would always win ... how many upsets happened in december? Or are the vegas oddsmakers just all screwed up?

I compared the two teams, and said I don't believe the players on this team are any better than last year's team, they just have different roles. it's above.

But really, what does it matter if this year's team is better or worse than last year's team? the bar has already been set. all the posters here really care about is for this team to go farther in the NCAA tourney. anything less, and this team is a total failure. if this team loses in the second round of the tourney, there is no one who will claim this team is better. the only stat that really counts is the W.

I said about 4 months ago I thought this team would be a sweet 16 team and nothing more. My mind hasn't really changed. An they've done nothing to really change my mind.

So what's the point of comparing this year's team to last year? to predict the future? realistically you can't predict the future success of this team against last year's team. if yo u want to actually predict the future, you have to compare this year's team against the opponents we will face. Are we better than IU, Neb, iowa, IU, Maryland, UW, OSU MSU and the rest ? yes. are we better than MSU ? no.

Do yo u want me to predict upsets too? I thought the question was to compare this team to last year's team. Both are great teams. But simply stated, there is so much hype and expectations by people on this board, that is this team doesn't at least make the sweet 16, it will be judged forever as not being as good as last year's team.

looking back in history, what was the greatest Purdue team? I highly doubt anyone would say it was the 3 amigos team. Why? Because they never got past the sweet 16. Was tha t team better than John Wooden's team? NO. better than mount's team? No. better than big Dog's team? No. better than joe barry Carrol's team? NO. So where does this team rank, and is it better than last year's team? it's an unfair question to ask in the middle of the season.

So why even ask the question, unless you want to use the answer to determine our future success this year. and frankly, if you want to determine our success this year. a much more accurate measure would be to compare our team to our opponent and ask, can we beat them? Otherwise ask the question at the end of the year.

let's put my words in perspective. I've never said this was not a great team. But last year was an awesome team. and the only way this team will be better or remembered as being better is if it goes farther in the NCAA tourney than last year. That's the measuring stick. any comparison between teams before that is premature.

 

[Wolegib]

and, there will always be upsets. there are some who will say the Purdue's women's team that won an NCAA championship was not the best team in that tournament. and we wo n because we had a good pairing, injuries, bad calls, and our opponents had a fluky bad day. They can say anything they want. WE WON ! it doesn't matter who had a better team. WE WON . I don't even care what the ratings were. WE WON. Was the women's team better the following year? I don't know and I don't care. They lost. Which team was better? One team won a championship. the following year they didn't win a championship. yo u can do all the comparisons you want as to which team was the better team. I only use one measurement.

Which UNC team was their best team? Which Duke team was their best team? Which UCLA was their best team? Was Walton's UCLA team better than Kareem's? Was Walton's UCLA team better than NC State? For me there is only one measuring stick.

Upsets and rankings and stats are meaningless. Just ask any champion. They know who the best team is.

 

[Wolegib]

and as for Purdue, I hope they win every game this year, even if it's an upset. The better team doesn't always win. But I would hope this team is at least good enough to make the sweet 16. if not , they are clearly not as good as some people think they are.

 

[jadeezra]

I said about 4 months ago I thought this team would be a sweet 16 team and nothing more. My mind hasn't really changed. An they've done nothing to really change my mind.


So the emergence of Haarms as a shot blocker/rim protector, having the best resume to this point (per ncaa committee rules) and being being top 5 in pretty much every computer ranking almost into January hasn’t changed anything ?


On what basis ? Laying an egg vs WK?

 

[Wolegib]

ok. how about if I just say last year's team was better, but they grossly underachieved. Would that make everybody happy? there were many games that V Edwards didn't come close to his talent level based o n his previous year's performance. . We all expected the twin towers of Haas and biggie, but Haas fouled too much and grossly underachieved and forced biggie to play center. .

Cline was so bad, I predicted he'd have a reserve role this year. I thought Carsen played out of control. and I thought Dakota was too team oriented.

the only player who played up to his talent level was biggie.

is this year's team better any better than last year? last year's team lost to Iowa and had no business losing to Michigan in the BIG 10 tourney. This year's team lost to WKU and should have beat tenn in the Atlantis tourney.

so I'd say they are about equal.

 

[Do Dah Day]

... all the posters here really care about is for this team to go farther in the NCAA tourney. anything less, and this team is a total failure. if this team loses in the second round of the tourney, there is no one who will claim this team is better. the only stat that really counts is the W.

... if this team doesn't at least make the sweet 16, it will be judged forever as not being as good as last year's team.

... the only way this team will be better or remembered as being better is if it goes farther in the NCAA tourney than last year. That's the measuring stick. any comparison between teams before that is premature.

I am a poster and I do care a LOT about this team being a great team in their next game, and the game after that, and the game after that. I DO CARE about how they do during the season. I will claim they are better than last year if they continue to play the way they have played, regardless of how they do in the tourney. That is NOT the only stat that really counts to me.

I resist your notion that this team will forever be judged as a lesser team. I believe in fans and others who are knowledgeable in the sport and recognize greatness even in the face of adversity or a single loss in a tournament.

I deny your opinion that the only way this team will be remember will be based on their tourney success... at least for myself.

I agree that comparing this year's team to last years is an unanswerable question, whether at this point or not. But I dispute your contention that the answer will be provided by wins in the Dance.

And I must add your words "TOTAL FAILURE" are utterly and completely ridiculous. With that theory, there are 346 total failures every single year - and that thought sickens me. You diminish the effort of 4,000 (more or less) student athletes for calling them total failures.

I struggle to understand most of your posts... but this one truly angers me.

 

[Do Dah Day]

~ they grossly underachieved.
~ V Edwards didn't come close to his talent level based o n his previous year's performance. .
~ Haas fouled too much and grossly underachieved and forced biggie to play center. .
~ Cline was so bad, I predicted he'd have a reserve role this year.
~ I thought Carsen played out of control. and
~ I thought Dakota was too team oriented.
~ the only player who played up to his talent level was biggie.

I sincerely feel sorry for your depression and negative mindset.

Actually, I feel much more strongly than that .... but ....

 

[New Pal Boiler]

to compare the two teams. I'm not really sure Dakota, PJ or Vince are really any better this year than they were last year. Obviously, with biggie gone, they are all getting more chances to shoot and more opportunities to grab a rebound. Last year, they performed as role players, and were awesome at it.. Does that mean they are actually any better this year?

Vince had some great games last year, and also disappeared early in the season. I'd say he's as good this year as he was the second half of last year. is that really an improvement?

I think of PJ as our PG, but I see others getting more assists. To me, PJ reached a nice level last year, and he's maintained that level. Remember the guy who last year and this Summer kept talking about PJ's awesome TO to Assist ratio? is PJ's To to assist ratio any different?

Dakota had some great games last year and some great games this year. Some said last year he was deserving of being on the BIG 10 all defensive team. I look at him as the glue of the team.

All of last year and during the Summer, there would be some poster who would keep using per minute stats and kept trying to project what Haas' stats would be if he played 40 minutes. his projected stats for Haas last year if given more playing time far exceed Haas' actual production. So has Haas actually improved?

Haas is not as aggressive at rebounding as biggie was. Haas had an interview last year where he said that sometimes he would defer getting a rebound to ensure biggie got his double / double. Yes, Haas actually said that. Without biggie, Haas still seems to be deferring to others getting rebounds. This year, he seems to be deferring sometimes to Edwards.

Carsen has improved.

Cline is much like Haas. he has received more playing time, but is doing basically the same things he did last year. I guess you could say his defense has improved.

Since Cline is still the first guard coming off the bench. I'm not sure who to compare Eastern with - Spike?

is this year's Taylor better than last year's Taylor ? because of his limited time, and because he was injured once again it's hard to say and also hard to predict if he will re-injure himself. Many have said he seems to be rusty this year. .

Without biggie, our 4 seniors are playing more minutes, and putting up more of their own shots. They each had defined roles last year. If biggie was not on the team last year, I believe you would have seen Dakota, has, PJ and Edwards step up their game to the level you are currently seeing. But with biggie, they filled supporting roles. Does that mean they are better this year? Rather than saying they've improved, or that they were holding back last year, i'll leave with this last comment.

I believe this year's seniors have finally received an opportunity to display their talents. it's very hard to improve on last year's tremendous season,

Did you leave out the 7’-3” excitable Dutch Boy?

 

[jadeezra]

That’s understandable, a better response. We will just have to agree to disagree. Last year Swanigan was great at rebounding but you cannot even begin to the amount of disruption he was on defense. Couldn’t defend , no rim protection . Addition by subtraction and I’m sure I’m in the minority with this one

ok. how about if I just say last year's team was better, but they grossly underachieved. Would that make everybody happy? there were many games that V Edwards didn't come close to his talent level based o n his previous year's performance. . We all expected the twin towers of Haas and biggie, but Haas fouled too much and grossly underachieved and forced biggie to play center. .

Cline was so bad, I predicted he'd have a reserve role this year. I thought Carsen played out of control. and I thought Dakota was too team oriented.

the only player who played up to his talent level was biggie.

is this year's team better any better than last year? last year's team lost to Iowa and had no business losing to Michigan in the BIG 10 tourney. This year's team lost to WKU and should have beat tenn in the Atlantis tourney.

so I'd say they are about equal.

 

[Wolegib]

You didn't like my other posts. So I gave you one to chew on.

as I said, this team will be compared by our current posters to last year's team. and I believe that's an unfair comparison. last year's team accomplished many things previous teams only attempted. Last year's team brought the BIG 10 Championship back to Purdue. Last year's team finally got the monkey off it's back and made the sweet 16. last year's team almost choked against Iowa St, but through extra ordinary effort found a way to actually win when we all thought they were destined to choke once more.

How can you compare the two teams unless you also compare their tourney results? making the sweet 16 was probably last year's team's biggest achievement. Winning 30 games this year is not going to top that victory over Iowa St.

and any honest poster will admit that V Edwards sometimes disappeared last year, and that has got into foul trouble and C Edwards often played out of control. And Cline was slow on transition. And biggie's defense wasn't the best. But when it all mattered, they found a way to finally get that monkey off their back , and didn't choke and the ball finally bounced their way. As I said, their entire season will be remembered by those last 20 seconds against Iowa St. We could have and should have lost that game. Iowa St had the momentum. And like every other year, we missed the clutch free throw that could have iced the game. But this time, we got the rebound, and won.

Do you honestly believe this year's team is better or will have a more emotional moment than that?

This year's team has 4 experienced seniors. if they don't at least duplicate the success of last year's team, they will be considered a failure. And if you look around, you'll notice this year's BIG 10 will present a lot easier path beating UW, Maryland and IU will not be as meaningful this year as it was last year.

I don't really know what you want me to say . Do you want me to say everyone on this year's team has improved and they are much better than last year's team? and all their stats and efficiency are so much better? and we finally beat Butler, so we must be great? I say, let's play the games and find out. rather than thinking about beating last year's team, let's concentrate and focus on our next opponent.

Would it have made you happier if I just said I believe last year's team was better? and until this year's team proves itself, I'll maintain that position.

the NCAA has taken away a lot of the luster and importance of the regular season much like the NBA has. March madness has replaced the regular season. All that matters to the casual fan and also many players is getting into the dance. I see a lot more emotions expressed by players getting into the dance than I do see winning a league championship.

the thing is , I'm not bitter or depressed. I'm expressing my beliefs from interactions with other fans who don't post here. Take some time and go to Follett's and ask the casual student what they'd rather have - a BIG 10 championship or making the final 4. I hate to post stuff like this, but the NCAA tourney has basically made the regular season meaningless. the only purpose the regular season now serves is a means to get into the tourney. The regular season has basically become like an AAU tourney and serves as the pool action for a team to make the championship bracket. and if you don't win your pool, you can go to the NIT or that other tourney. and while you're at Follett's, ask the casual fan who won the NIT last year.

I never said this was a bad team. But it has a long ways to go before I would declare this team being better than last year's team.

 

[Wolegib]

what does the casual fan care about? the regular season, or their NCAA tourney bracket? I think the answer says it all.

almost every poster on this board keeps talking about what seed we will have. There are more concerns about being a #2 or #3 seed than what our BIG 10 finish will be. Posters just assume we'll make the dance.

 

[Treed1967]

Given I have no inside sources! But watching your son play, and watching Purdue play, I believe your son will have a more defined role next year to take better advantage of his talents. And I believe Purdue's offensive style of play will also change! We're starting to see a shift from a down low post offense to a more prominent backcourt! Admittedly Haas will get his touches, but unlike the past, he is not our #1 option. Yes we have Williams and Dow coming, but I see next year focused on the strengths of our back court!

And contrary to myths and legends, Purdue has evolved into a faster tempo and higher scoring team than ever before. I remember the old days when Purdue scored 65 points and that was considered a high score!

I respect your opinions of what you are saying but to me his mother who knows his game and what his strengths and weaknesses to his game is I do not think this system suits my son style of play. I watched him workout all 4 days he was home with his trainer put him through a pro style workouts and from what I was watching my son painter system is more of a system that best suits perimeter players that are really good shooters and that is ok too bcuz my son is a guard who shot will improve as time goes om that will work for him. My son is a play making guard who make plays for himself and others. He has a high basketball IQ and an elite passer who has a great understanding of the game who is great in ball screens who is very good at attacking the basket with ease who’s jump shot is a work in progress but getting better. My son can play and defend all 4 positions bcuz of his size,speed and athleticism. He knows the game this I no and this system painter runs doesn’t to me showcases that in a way that will help the team in my opinion. They run a lot of sets that works for a team that understands and knows this system why they have been here 4 to 3 years to

I think that Painter’s system will be perfect for Nojel as he continues to develop and after Isaac Haas graduates. With Haarms as the starting center next season, I see Painter incorporating a lot more slashing and less traditional post up offense.

The things that have held Nojel back this far this season, are not caused by the system. Painter has put Nojel in a position where he can succeed without being overburdened with responsibility and I like the way the Nojel has responded. I’ve seen many Big Ten freshman over the years and Nojel is in a very good place compared to most of them. I think that he is a year of hard work away from a breakout season.

 

[Treed1967]

I respect your opinions of what you are saying but to me his mother who knows his game and what his strengths and weaknesses to his game is I do not think this system suits my son style of play. I watched him workout all 4 days he was home with his trainer put him through a pro style workouts and from what I was watching my son painter system is more of a system that best suits perimeter players that are really good shooters and that is ok too bcuz my son is a guard who shot will improve as time goes om that will work for him. My son is a play making guard who make plays for himself and others. He has a high basketball IQ and an elite passer who has a great understanding of the game who is great in ball screens who is very good at attacking the basket with ease who’s jump shot is a work in progress but getting better. My son can play and defend all 4 positions bcuz of his size,speed and athleticism. He knows the game this I no and this system painter runs doesn’t to me showcases that in a way that will help the team in my opinion. They run a lot of sets that works for a team that understands and knows this system why they have been here 4 to 3 years to

and it works for them really really well and watching them all they no each other’s every move and that is s great thing just to me the way my son plays in my opinion that kinda system play does not show what skill set he has in ball screams and his vision. What I no is this he is adjusting now figuring it out learning from the seniors to help him adjust to this system. This team is a final 4 team I believe in my opinion what my son has to offer I think Nojel, Cline and Haarms can help them go very far in Big 10 tournament and Ncaa Tournament. Right now I’m just encouraging him to stay ready continue to work on his shooting and FT and his overall game to get better.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I respect your opinions of what you are saying but to me his mother who knows his game and what his strengths and weaknesses to his game is I do not think this system suits my son style of play. I watched him workout all 4 days he was home with his trainer put him through a pro style workouts and from what I was watching my son painter system is more of a system that best suits perimeter players that are really good shooters and that is ok too bcuz my son is a guard who shot will improve as time goes om that will work for him. My son is a play making guard who make plays for himself and others. He has a high basketball IQ and an elite passer who has a great understanding of the game who is great in ball screens who is very good at attacking the basket with ease who’s jump shot is a work in progress but getting better. My son can play and defend all 4 positions bcuz of his size,speed and athleticism. He knows the game this I no and this system painter runs doesn’t to me showcases that in a way that will help the team in my opinion. They run a lot of sets that works for a team that understands and knows this system why they have been here 4 to 3 years to

Good feedback. I thought that Coach Painter did a great job utilizing Lewis Jackson and getting him in isolation. Jackson was an explosive point guard who was much better attacking the rim than shooting outside.

Ronnie Johnson transferred because he thought that Coach Painter’s system was holding him back, only to have less success playing for Kelvin Sampson at Houston and then Bruce Pearl at Auburn.

I could be wrong, but I think that Coach Painter will make a lot of adjustments after this season to pull Haarms out and open up the lane for the slashers on the team.

 

[Boilersss]

I respect your opinions of what you are saying but to me his mother who knows his game and what his strengths and weaknesses to his game is I do not think this system suits my son style of play. I watched him workout all 4 days he was home with his trainer put him through a pro style workouts and from what I was watching my son painter system is more of a system that best suits perimeter players that are really good shooters and that is ok too bcuz my son is a guard who shot will improve as time goes om that will work for him. My son is a play making guard who make plays for himself and others. He has a high basketball IQ and an elite passer who has a great understanding of the game who is great in ball screens who is very good at attacking the basket with ease who’s jump shot is a work in progress but getting better. My son can play and defend all 4 positions bcuz of his size,speed and athleticism. He knows the game this I no and this system painter runs doesn’t to me showcases that in a way that will help the team in my opinion. They run a lot of sets that works for a team that understands and knows this system why they have been here 4 to 3 years to

Do you think Painter will adjust his offense next year? It has been talked about on here many times whether the offense will change next year with fewer shooters. Do you get the feeling that it will change?

 

[Do Dah Day]

You didn't like my other posts. So I gave you one to chew on.

as I said, this team will be compared by our current posters to last year's team. and I believe that's an unfair comparison. last year's team accomplished many things previous teams only attempted. Last year's team brought the BIG 10 Championship back to Purdue. Last year's team finally got the monkey off it's back and made the sweet 16. last year's team almost choked against Iowa St, but through extra ordinary effort found a way to actually win when we all thought they were destined to choke once more.

How can you compare the two teams unless you also compare their tourney results? making the sweet 16 was probably last year's team's biggest achievement. Winning 30 games this year is not going to top that victory over Iowa St.

and any honest poster will admit that V Edwards sometimes disappeared last year, and that has got into foul trouble and C Edwards often played out of control. And Cline was slow on transition. And biggie's defense wasn't the best. But when it all mattered, they found a way to finally get that monkey off their back , and didn't choke and the ball finally bounced their way. As I said, their entire season will be remembered by those last 20 seconds against Iowa St. We could have and should have lost that game. Iowa St had the momentum. And like every other year, we missed the clutch free throw that could have iced the game. But this time, we got the rebound, and won.

Do you honestly believe this year's team is better or will have a more emotional moment than that?

This year's team has 4 experienced seniors. if they don't at least duplicate the success of last year's team, they will be considered a failure. And if you look around, you'll notice this year's BIG 10 will present a lot easier path beating UW, Maryland and IU will not be as meaningful this year as it was last year.

I don't really know what you want me to say . Do you want me to say everyone on this year's team has improved and they are much better than last year's team? and all their stats and efficiency are so much better? and we finally beat Butler, so we must be great? I say, let's play the games and find out. rather than thinking about beating last year's team, let's concentrate and focus on our next opponent.

Would it have made you happier if I just said I believe last year's team was better? and until this year's team proves itself, I'll maintain that position.

the NCAA has taken away a lot of the luster and importance of the regular season much like the NBA has. March madness has replaced the regular season. All that matters to the casual fan and also many players is getting into the dance. I see a lot more emotions expressed by players getting into the dance than I do see winning a league championship.

the thing is , I'm not bitter or depressed. I'm expressing my beliefs from interactions with other fans who don't post here. Take some time and go to Follett's and ask the casual student what they'd rather have - a BIG 10 championship or making the final 4. I hate to post stuff like this, but the NCAA tourney has basically made the regular season meaningless. the only purpose the regular season now serves is a means to get into the tourney. The regular season has basically become like an AAU tourney and serves as the pool action for a team to make the championship bracket. and if you don't win your pool, you can go to the NIT or that other tourney. and while you're at Follett's, ask the casual fan who won the NIT last year.

I never said this was a bad team. But it has a long ways to go before I would declare this team being better than last year's team.

I rarely read your posts. But as I scanned, words like "TOTAL FAILURE" struck a nerve. I will not debate because you have a closed-mind.

I do not want you to say anything. Stay true to yourself.

Is a team's success predicated on the opinion of a casual fan? If you believe so, then we will never have anything more to discuss. Actually, I doubt we ever do regardless.

 

[Treed1967]

Do you think Painter will adjust his offense next year? It has been talked about on here many times whether the offense will change next year with fewer shooters. Do you get the feeling that it will change?

I really don’t no if it changes or not all I’m gonna worry about is the here and now and make sure my son is ready to help this team out the rest of this season is all I’m focused on. I’m only concentrating on this season and how can my son be effective in this system this season. Nothing else matters at this point for my son but for him to continue to get better in all aspects of his game and be ready to do whatever he can to help this team wins.

 

[Wolegib]

I rarely read your posts. But as I scanned, words like "TOTAL FAILURE" struck a nerve. I will not debate because you have a closed-mind.

I do not want you to say anything. Stay true to yourself.

Is a team's success predicated on the opinion of a casual fan? If you believe so, then we will never have anything more to discuss. Actually, I doubt we ever do regardless.

I'm going to make this short. if all you do is skim my posts, don't waste my time, your time, or other readers' time to reply.
Obviously all of my posts have been lost on you as you rarely reply to the message of my posts, and just focus on certain words you see.

 

[zigybean]

I didn’t really read all the responses, but the question of which team is better reminds me of one of those Chuck Norris jokes like ‘Did you know the Chuck Norris’s tears cure cancer? The problem is he never cries.’ Such a game between the two teams would end up in the first 8 overtime game, only ending when Haas the Younger fouls out thereby allowing his older self the ‘and one’ to win it.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'm going to make this short. if all you do is skim my posts, don't waste my time, your time, or other readers' time to reply.
Obviously all of my posts have been lost on you as you rarely reply to the message of my posts, and just focus on certain words you see.

Help me - how do I find the true message of your posts? I went back and read the incredible length of the past six or seven. What exactly is the message of each one? Help me focus ... because your rambling posts must contribute to my lack of focus ... please help.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'm going to make this short. if all you do is skim my posts, don't waste my time, your time, or other readers' time to reply.
Obviously all of my posts have been lost on you as you rarely reply to the message of my posts, and just focus on certain words you see.

BTW - these are the only words I focused on in one of your posts ...

~ they grossly underachieved.
~ V Edwards didn't come close to his talent level based o n his previous year's performance. .
~ Haas fouled too much and grossly underachieved and forced biggie to play center. .
~ Cline was so bad, I predicted he'd have a reserve role this year.
~ I thought Carsen played out of control. and
~ I thought Dakota was too team oriented.
~ the only player who played up to his talent level was biggie.


Clearly I read your entire post as the quotes at the end of my list were from the end of you list. I didn't want to miss any of your criticisms of last year's great team ...

 

[jadeezra]

Wasting your time man , is what it is. If I didn’t know better I’d think he was a troll. Besides western KY this team has overachieved thus far.

BTW - these are the only words I focused on in one of your posts ...

~ they grossly underachieved.
~ V Edwards didn't come close to his talent level based o n his previous year's performance. .
~ Haas fouled too much and grossly underachieved and forced biggie to play center. .
~ Cline was so bad, I predicted he'd have a reserve role this year.
~ I thought Carsen played out of control. and
~ I thought Dakota was too team oriented.
~ the only player who played up to his talent level was biggie.


Clearly I read your entire post as the quotes at the end of my list were from the end of you list. I didn't want to miss any of your criticisms of last year's great team ...

 

[Bluegrass Boiler]

This is just for fun, folks. Feel free to exercise your imagination.
... But 17/18 Carsen would make 16/17 Carsen look foolish...

This is one of the biggest difference makers in the two teams, and is an important reason why 17/18 wins.

 

[boilerzz]

wonder how many expect this coming into year 1. and if there is an expectation on having abrupt changes made during one offseason to accommodate the next year, especially with a roster and recruits that can change

our tempo rank is down so far (152 vs 113 last year).

but like last year, the tempo is offset by the crazy scoring efficiency to get the higher point totals. not only making shots, but a lot of 3s and FTs. top 20 in FG%, 3FG%, 3FG made, FTs made.

was also interesting hearing hummel on a few different broadcasts, say how painters motion offense has changed since his playing time. will be interesting to see how much it may/may not change by next year too.

This is inaccurate. So far this year, Purdue’s offensive tempo is 28th and defensive tempo is 340th. Last year, Purdue was 90th and 264th respectively.

 

[BoilerBiker]

This is inaccurate. So far this year, Purdue’s offensive tempo is 28th and defensive tempo is 340th. Last year, Purdue was 90th and 264th respectively.

am I looking at the wrong chart?
still seeing kenpom adj tempo as 152 rank for 2018 and 113 for 2017.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2017