2010 Purdue

[collegehoopsfan123]

This was Painter's best team with Lewis Jackson not back to full strength until the end of February when Hummel went down.

This team had a mobile 5 (Johnson) and a tall mobile 4 (Hummel). And Keaton, Kramer, and E'twaun were all laterally mobile defenders, too.

No more laterally slow players getting minutes IF Purdue wants to get back to the FF. Cuonzo Martin's recruiting would continue to help with this

Would like to see Furst and Kaufman starting together in 2023. This is what gets the job done in March Madness.

Waddell looked really good before ACL tear. Put him at the 3.

Give me Pack and Newman at the 1 and 2.

Hunter (or Smith), Loyer, Morton (Heide), Gillis, Edey (Berg) can be the back-ups. And Painter, bring back your buddy Zo if you can.

Zo can recruit and Painter can coach well when he has minimal, slow players to deal with. Please play the guys that can get you to the FF!

The talent is there, and Zo would just make it that much easier. Go Boilers!

 

[northside100]

This was Painter's best team with Lewis Jackson not back to full strength until the end of February when Hummel went down.

This team had a mobile 5 (Johnson) and a tall mobile 4 (Hummel). And Keaton, Kramer, and E'twaun were all laterally mobile defenders, too.

No more laterally slow players getting minutes IF Purdue wants to get back to the FF. Cuonzo Martin's recruiting would continue to help with this

Would like to see Furst and Kaufman starting together in 2023. This is what gets the job done in March Madness.

Waddell looked really good before ACL tear. Put him at the 3.

Give me Pack and Newman at the 1 and 2.

Hunter (or Smith), Loyer, Morton (Heide), Gillis, Edey (Berg) can be the back-ups. And Painter, bring back your buddy Zo if you can.

Zo can recruit and Painter can coach well when he has minimal, slow players to deal with. Please play the guys that can get you to the FF!

The talent is there, and Zo would just make it that much easier. Go Boilers!

As much as some dislike it, Edey is likely a candidate for preseason AA and a frontrunner for BTPOY, so there's little chance that he comes off the bench. Having said that, it will again be a great luxury from Purdue to have an immensely talented backup 5, likely in Caleb Furst. I expect that in most games MP will take as many minutes from Zach as he can give him, but where there are bad matchups for Zach or if he just has an off night, Caleb provides a long, skilled agile option.

 

[pboiler18]

The issue here to me is that we needed Zo and the recruiting boost right after he left.
10+ years later we don’t have as big of an issue here so there’s less need for a guy like ‘Zo on the staff than there was before he came.

Now, if he wants to be director of recruiting….I’m all for that!

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

As much as some dislike it, Edey is likely a candidate for preseason AA and a frontrunner for BTPOY, so there's little chance that he comes off the bench. Having said that, it will again be a great luxury from Purdue to have an immensely talented backup 5, likely in Caleb Furst. I expect that in most games MP will take as many minutes from Zach as he can give him, but where there are bad matchups for Zach or if he just has an off night, Caleb provides a long, skilled agile option.

I understand what you are saying. But I love the name on the front of the jersey, and Purdue has the players to make the FF and possibly more especially if they get Pack. Our 2010 team and 2019 team shows we need a mobile center to get more minutes. I don't want to be Big Man U or the new shooting guard U. I want a FF and NC. Got to play the guys that win meaningful games in March to make it happen. Pack, Newman, Waddell, Kaufman-Renn, and Furst are my 5 on the floor. Hunter and Morton my first 2 off the bench. The best defensive players who can score need to play. Wish Gillis was 6'8''.

 

[northside100]

I understand what you are saying. But I love the name on the front of the jersey, and Purdue has the players to make the FF and possibly more especially if they get Pack. Our 2010 team and 2019 team shows we need a mobile center to get more minutes. I don't want to be Big Man U or the new shooting guard U. I want a FF and NC. Got to play the guys that win meaningful games in March to make it happen. Pack, Newman, Waddell, Kaufman-Renn, and Furst are my 5 on the floor. Hunter and Morton my first 2 off the bench. The best defensive players who can score need to play.

Do you not suppose that Matt Painter and staff want the same thing? Do you suppose that your comparison to 2010 reveals something that they haven't thought of?

I'm not saying you don't have the right to your own opinion, you certainly do, but the comparison is very simplistic.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Do you not suppose that Matt Painter and staff want the same thing? Do you suppose that your comparison to 2010 reveals something that they haven't thought of?

I'm not saying you don't have the right to your own opinion, you certainly do, but the comparison is very simplistic.

2010 Duke is the last team to win it all with a slower starting center in Zeubeck (But a healthy Purdue team with a mobile 5 might have beat them). Its possible to win with a slower center.
But the last 12 years say otherwise.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I understand what you are saying. But I love the name on the front of the jersey, and Purdue has the players to make the FF and possibly more especially if they get Pack. Our 2010 team and 2019 team shows we need a mobile center to get more minutes. I don't want to be Big Man U or the new shooting guard U. I want a FF and NC. Got to play the guys that win meaningful games in March to make it happen. Pack, Newman, Waddell, Kaufman-Renn, and Furst are my 5 on the floor. Hunter and Morton my first 2 off the bench. The best defensive players who can score need to play. Wish Gillis was 6'8''.

Just to be clear, you are saying that 3 players you have never seen in a college game will lead Purdue to a FF and NC?

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Just to be clear, you are saying that 3 players you have never seen in a college game will lead Purdue to a FF and NC?

They have the talent and skill-set to do so. Only thing holding them back is injuries and coaching decisions. I suppose bad luck, too.

 

[BoilerAndy]

They have the talent and skill-set to do so. Only thing holding them back is injuries and coaching decisions. I suppose bad luck, too.

Not sure we can draw those conclusions when 2 of them have never played a game in college. Landers was a stud 5-star PG who was going to lead IU to a national championship. He was a great high school player, and less-than-mediocre college player.

But those 5 guys are on Purdue's team, so they will have a chance to prove you are right. I hope they do.

 

[MLB007]

I understand what you are saying. But I love the name on the front of the jersey, and Purdue has the players to make the FF and possibly more especially if they get Pack. Our 2010 team and 2019 team shows we need a mobile center to get more minutes. I don't want to be Big Man U or the new shooting guard U. I want a FF and NC. Got to play the guys that win meaningful games in March to make it happen. Pack, Newman, Waddell, Kaufman-Renn, and Furst are my 5 on the floor. Hunter and Morton my first 2 off the bench. The best defensive players who can score need to play. Wish Gillis was 6'8''.

Pack played elsewhere seldom seen here. Waddell was hurt all season. KR was redshirted, neither saw the floor. And Newman was hopeless on D most of the year.
How exactly have you deduced that those are the guys that are the best defensive players who can score???????????

 

[northside100]

2010 Duke is the last team to win it all with a slower starting center in Zeubeck (But a healthy Purdue team with a mobile 5 might have beat them). Its possible to win with a slower center.
But the last 12 years say otherwise.

If you really wanted to have a meaningful view of this one could look at the last 12 years and document how many first and second team all American centers were traditional low post players. From there you could look at their level of support on the team (other AA's or NBA draft picks) and make a determination as to whether dominant traditional centers are more or less likely than other players to make a FF or win a NC. Absent that data there's not causal relationship or even positive correlation between having a dominant traditional center and making a FF or winning an NC.

 

[FirstDownB]

Not sure I understand the fascination with Cuonzo. Unless he is going to convince guys like Jalen Washington to stay home when the blue bloods come calling, I don't think recruiting has much to be improved upon its current level.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Not sure I understand the fascination with Cuonzo. Unless he is going to convince guys like Jalen Washington to stay home when the blue bloods come calling, I don't think recruiting has much to be improved upon its current level.

I respect your opinion. I think Cuonzo would have a significant difference on the recruiting trail, getting guys like Jalen Washington. Purdue would have fewer defensive liabilities on the roster for Painter to choose from and play. But yes, Purdue's current talent is solid enough if the defensively liabilities are kept on the bench. It would be nice to have better than solid enough, and Zo would bring that.

 

[mathboy]

I read some true pie-eyed optimism on here. Let’s get down to some realistic expectations.

We recruit some guys who are ranked 75-100, and suddenly we have the talent to win it all? Really? Where did those 74-1 ranked guys go? Are there more than a few teams out there with players who have an average rank well below 50? Maybe all their team is ranked as “high fours” or fives? Those are the teams that have the talent to win it all. We have to always punch above our weight to win any of these games above sweet sixteen. Let’s get realistic here.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

I read some true pie-eyed optimism on here. Let’s get down to some realistic expectations.

We recruit some guys who are ranked 75-100, and suddenly we have the talent to win it all? Really? Where did those 74-1 ranked guys go? Are there more than a few teams out there with players who have an average rank well below 50? Maybe all their team is ranked as “high fours” or fives? Those are the teams that have the talent to win it all. We have to always punch above our weight to win any of these games above sweet sixteen. Let’s get realistic here.

Maybe that's the problem, being realistic. Purdue should be able to make the FF, and it has not happened since 1980.

Mike Robinson and Jaraan Cornell were both top 25 and that team would have made the 2000 FF if Jaraan Cornell had not had the WORST game of his life.

The best team under Painter was 2010, and many of those players were Zo Martin recruits. Unfortunately, injuries kept that from happening. That team would also have made the FF.

But rankings don't tell the whole story, Kelsey Barlow was unranked and stuffed Kyle Singler (Top 5 recruit) at the rim in the 2010 Sweet 16 game. There is plenty of talent out there that is not ranked, and Zo did and would bring it in to Purdue.

Purdue's current team has enough talent if those guys get to play. But with Zo on staff, there would be more than enough, see 2010 team without injuries.

And 2019 would have made the FF too if not for a miracle pass. Matt Haarms not ranked either but he was a mobile 5 that caused problems on both ends of the floor. Mobile players get you far in the tournament ranked or not. Purdue needs more of this, Zo Martin brings that.

Purdue should be able to make the FF 2 times a decade, and that is good enough to win an
NCAA tournament National Championship at some point. These are realistic expectations.

And if they are not, then something needs to change. Go Boilers!

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Pack played elsewhere seldom seen here. Waddell was hurt all season. KR was redshirted, neither saw the floor. And Newman was hopeless on D most of the year.
How exactly have you deduced that those are the guys that are the best defensive players who can score???????????

It's just my opinion, and the talent that I have seen in practice prior to injuries. Pack is a player from Indy that I have seen, too. Pack is really good! I equate lateral mobility with being a good defensive player.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

If you really wanted to have a meaningful view of this one could look at the last 12 years and document how many first and second team all American centers were traditional low post players. From there you could look at their level of support on the team (other AA's or NBA draft picks) and make a determination as to whether dominant traditional centers are more or less likely than other players to make a FF or win a NC. Absent that data there's not causal relationship or even positive correlation between having a dominant traditional center and making a FF or winning an NC.

When the center (and other 4 players) are more mobile laterally, the team can play defense better. And if they can score too, you have a legit National Title contender. Jajuan Johnson was running circles around Zeubek of Duke in 2010 Sweet 16, if Hummel was healthy, Purdue would have played Duke in the FF and might have won instead of Duke. Laterally slow players at any position is going to hurt a team in March Madness. That's why Duke is the last team with a slower center to win it all in 2010 (and quite possibly because of Robbie Hummel's injury). Go Boilers!

And my comments are just as meaningful as yours buddy.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Purdue's current team has enough talent if those guys get to play.

"If it's about playing time, then practice harder.''
-- Michigan State coach Tom Izzo

For those who like Tom Izzo because of his multiple FFs but don't like Matt Painter because he plays the guys who practice hardest.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Just to be clear, you are saying that 3 players you have never seen in a college game will lead Purdue to a FF and NC?

Right on Andy. I'm with you on this one. Everyone loves the next guy up. Other than Edey, I'm not even sure Painter could tell you who he thinks will start.

 

[northside100]

When the center (and other 4 players) are more mobile laterally, the team can play defense better. And if they can score too, you have a legit National Title contender. Jajuan Johnson was running circles around Zeubek of Duke in 2010 Sweet 16, if Hummel was healthy, Purdue would have played Duke in the FF and might have won instead of Duke. Laterally slow players at any position is going to hurt a team in March Madness. That's why Duke is the last team with a slower center to win it all in 2010 (and quite possibly because of Robbie Hummel's injury). Go Boilers!

And my comments are just as meaningful as yours buddy.

I apologize if I offended you by saying that your post would be more meaningful if there were data behind it, that was not my intent. I would argue that comments that are supported by data are more interesting and meaningful that those that are just opinion. Simply stating that Duke was the last team to win with a traditional center doesn't show correlation or causation. Particularly if you're going to make a statement such as suggesting that Purdue would be best off not starting it's best player, your opinion would carry more weight if there were real data to support it. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

I apologize if I offended you by saying that your post would be more meaningful if there were data behind it, that was not my intent. I would argue that comments that are supported by data are more interesting and meaningful that those that are just opinion. Simply stating that Duke was the last team to win with a traditional center doesn't show correlation or causation. Particularly if you're going to make a statement such as suggesting that Purdue would be best off not starting it's best player, your opinion would carry more weight if there were real data to support it. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Its all good. My statements have data that back up what I am saying to be true. Anyway, have a good night buddy.

 

[rgarlitz]

Just to be clear, you are saying that 3 players you have never seen in a college game will lead Purdue to a FF and NC?

Yeah, that seems to be a common take around here. I've been guilty of it, too. We get star struck by guys who come in with great credentials and suddenly the sky's the limit. Everything is lining up for a magical run a year or two down the line. But then we see guys play. We realize even very good players have limitations. Within a year or two all the talk has shifted to what they can't do and what Painter needs to recruit to rectify it. Then maybe you get a guy like Ivey who seemingly has it all. But he's young and he's out the door before he's really figured out how to put it all together.

 

[northside100]

Yeah, that seems to be a common take around here. I've been guilty of it, too. We get star struck by guys who come in with great credentials and suddenly the sky's the limit. Everything is lining up for a magical run a year or two down the line. But then we see guys play. We realize even very good players have limitations. Within a year or two all the talk has shifted to what they can't do and what Painter needs to recruit to rectify it. Then maybe you get a guy like Ivey who seemingly has it all. But he's young and he's out the door before he's really figured out how to put it all together.

Agree, we eat our young and can't wait to move on to the next shiny object so that we can do the same to them. Zach Edey may be the toughest matchup in college basketball and most of the fans here can only focus on what he can't do. Mason does so many things well but fans can't get past the fact that he's not 6'9".

Having said that, I really like this roster. Lots of young talent and if MP and staff can get some help in the backcourt to supplement Brandon, Ethan and the young guys this team could be really salty this coming season.

 

[rgarlitz]

Agree, we eat our young and can't wait to move on to the next shiny object so that we can do the same to them. Zach Edey may be the toughest matchup in college basketball and most of the fans here can only focus on what he can't do. Mason does so many things well but fans can't get past the fact that he's not 6'9".

Having said that, I really like this roster. Lots of young talent and if MP and staff can get some help in the backcourt to supplement Brandon, Ethan and the young guys this team could be really salty this coming season.

All the talk has been on breaking through to the FF or winning a national championship. I understand it. It's been frustrating watching every promising team fall short of the ultimate goal. But, IMO, there's another side to all of this. Painter appears to have this program poised for consistent high-level success. I'm not talking about a one-off magical run that will get Purdue that elusive banner. I mean maintaining a program that is a regular in the top-20, top-4 in the league, 25+ win seasons, and where playing in the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament becomes a yearly expectation. I've been a Purdue fan for 30+ years, and I've only seen the program at this level twice. Gene had it there in the late 80s and again in the mid-to-late 90s. But, each time Keady could only sustain that level of excellence for a few years and then Purdue fell back into the pack.

Painter looked to be on the cusp of greatness with the Baby Boilers but was unable to sustain it after 2011. Now, he has the program back on that doorstep of consistent excellence. If Painter can maintain the program where it's currently at for the next ten years that will be a remarkable achievement. And, I think the breakthrough will happen.

 

[Level 42]

Painter looked to be on the cusp of greatness with the Baby Boilers but was unable to sustain it after 2011. Now, he has the program back on that doorstep of consistent excellence.

Let's also quantify why the drop off after 2011, the BOT largely abandoned the program and Painter was working with zero support.

 

[Aamesker]

All the talk has been on breaking through to the FF or winning a national championship. I understand it. It's been frustrating watching every promising team fall short of the ultimate goal. But, IMO, there's another side to all of this. Painter appears to have this program poised for consistent high-level success. I'm not talking about a one-off magical run that will get Purdue that elusive banner. I mean maintaining a program that is a regular in the top-20, top-4 in the league, 25+ win seasons, and where playing in the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament becomes a yearly expectation. I've been a Purdue fan for 30+ years, and I've only seen the program at this level twice. Gene had it there in the late 80s and again in the mid-to-late 90s. But, each time Keady could only sustain that level of excellence for a few years and then Purdue fell back into the pack.

Painter looked to be on the cusp of greatness with the Baby Boilers but was unable to sustain it after 2011. Now, he has the program back on that doorstep of consistent excellence. If Painter can maintain the program where it's currently at for the next ten years that will be a remarkable achievement. And, I think the breakthrough will happen.

Would it be worth it to win a title and then wallow around in the basement of the B1G for 15 years like Maryland? Or even make a title game appearance and then not make the second weekend for almost 2 decades like Illinois? Some would say yes, some would say no.

Personally, I enjoy winning 25+ games a season and makes it more enjoyable to follow the team no matter how March ends up. And you can't win anything if you aren't in the tournament to begin with.

 

[Level 42]

Personally, I enjoy winning 25+ games a season and makes it more enjoyable to follow the team no matter how March ends up. And you can't win anything if you aren't in the tournament to begin with.

I am the exact same way and as a result of all that success we have had, we have become a very spoiled fanbase. That is all because of Painter and what he has done which somehow is conveniently forgotten by the compl'ainters.

 

[rgarlitz]

Would it be worth it to win a title and then wallow around in the basement of the B1G for 15 years like Maryland? Or even make a title game appearance and then not make the second weekend for almost 2 decades like Illinois? Some would say yes, some would say no.

Personally, I enjoy winning 25+ games a season and makes it more enjoyable to follow the team no matter how March ends up. And you can't win anything if you aren't in the tournament to begin with.

That's a good point. It's easy to assume that a FF or national championship would propel Purdue into the next level of nationally elite programs. Maybe it would. But, the recent histories of Maryland, Indiana, and Illinois all suggest that's far from a certainty. And the jury's still out on programs like Virginia, Auburn, and Baylor.

I agree there's something to be said for a program that finds consistent success. Purdue has to be among the most consistently successful men's basketball programs outside of the top 10 or 12 blue bloods.

 

[SCBoiler1]

This post is to Collegehoopsfan1. My first reaction to your post was to dismiss it off hand as Edey will probably be Purdue's leading scorer next year even if we land Pack.

However, a friend and I were discussing next years team the other day and he threw out a very similar proposition. He said he kind of wished Edey would have moved on given the current makeup of Purdue's team. He made some good points that were similar to yours but also pointing out you could transition to a smaller more athletic lineup in the front court with the guys we already have.

As much as fans don't want to accept it, we currently have a log jam at the 4, Most fans solution is to have Gillis or TKR take some minutes at the 3 and have Furst split minutes between the 4 and 5. If TKR or Gillis can't effectively play the three then your talking about splitting big minutes at the 4 and 5 between 4 guys, That's not going to happen, so one of our better players might be frozen out of the lineup similar to what happen to Newman this year.

Now try to envision this team with Edey gone. You'd have Furst getting 30 plus minutes at the 5 and Gillis and TKR splitting minutes at the 4. You would need to have someone fill the minutes to give Furst a break. Could it be TKR or Berg for short stints? Who knows but your team would have had a totally different look and I think it would have been fun to see.

Again, this isn't going to happen with Edey staying but it would have been interesting to see Purdue transition to a non post centric offense that would have been more agile on defense. 2018-2019 anyone?

 

[Level 42]

This post is to Collegehoopsfan1. My first reaction to your post was to dismiss it off hand as Edey will probably be Purdue's leading scorer next year even if we land Pack.

However, a friend and I were discussing next years team the other day and he threw out a very similar proposition. He said he kind of wished Edey would have moved on given the current makeup of Purdue's team. He made some good points that were similar to yours but also pointing out you could transition to a smaller more athletic lineup in the front court with the guys we already have.

As much as fans don't want to accept it, we currently have a log jam at the 4, Most fans solution is to have Gillis or TKR take some minutes at the 3 and have Furst split minutes between the 4 and 5. If TKR or Gillis can't effectively play the three then your talking about splitting big minutes at the 4 and 5 between 4 guys, That's not going to happen, so one of our better players might be frozen out of the lineup similar to what happen to Newman this year.

Now try to envision this team with Edey gone. You'd have Furst getting 30 plus minutes at the 5 and Gillis and TKR splitting minutes at the 4. You would need to have someone fill the minutes to give Furst a break. Could it be TKR or Berg for short stints? Who knows but your team would have had a totally different look and I think it would have been fun to see.

Again, this isn't going to happen with Edey staying but it would have been interesting to see Purdue transition to a non post centric offense that would have been more agile on defense. 2018-2019 anyone?

I personally think Berg redshirts and this isn't that big of a deal. As much as I like what I see from Berg, he has some development in a few areas to get through where a redshirt can help.

So that means Furst plays the same role Tre did in a sense which I think he will flourish at.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

This post is to Collegehoopsfan1. My first reaction to your post was to dismiss it off hand as Edey will probably be Purdue's leading scorer next year even if we land Pack.

However, a friend and I were discussing next years team the other day and he threw out a very similar proposition. He said he kind of wished Edey would have moved on given the current makeup of Purdue's team. He made some good points that were similar to yours but also pointing out you could transition to a smaller more athletic lineup in the front court with the guys we already have.

As much as fans don't want to accept it, we currently have a log jam at the 4, Most fans solution is to have Gillis or TKR take some minutes at the 3 and have Furst split minutes between the 4 and 5. If TKR or Gillis can't effectively play the three then your talking about splitting big minutes at the 4 and 5 between 4 guys, That's not going to happen, so one of our better players might be frozen out of the lineup similar to what happen to Newman this year.

Now try to envision this team with Edey gone. You'd have Furst getting 30 plus minutes at the 5 and Gillis and TKR splitting minutes at the 4. You would need to have someone fill the minutes to give Furst a break. Could it be TKR or Berg for short stints? Who knows but your team would have had a totally different look and I think it would have been fun to see.

Again, this isn't going to happen with Edey staying but it would have been interesting to see Purdue transition to a non post centric offense that would have been more agile on defense. 2018-2019 anyone?

Yes please! And 2009-2010 too!

Could not have said it better. When you have guys getting the bulk of the minutes who can move well laterally on defense and score on offense, you give yourself the best chance to make a FF run and more. Go Boilers!

 

[SCBoiler1]

I personally think Berg redshirts and this isn't that big of a deal. As much as I like what I see from Berg, he has some development in a few areas to get through where a redshirt can help.

So that means Furst plays the same role Tre did in a sense which I think he will flourish at.

I don't know how Berg sees the court next year but even if he redshirts Purdue will still have a logjam for minutes. As much as Boiler fans don't like to acknowledge it, most teams' best players play 30 to 35 minutes per game. Purdue will not be at its best if Furst and Edey are splitting 40 minutes at the 5. If Edey plays 30 minutes at the 5 it only leaves 10 for Furst. If Furst gets 10 or 15 at the 4, that only leaves 25 to 30 minutes for TKR and Gillis to split if neither can play the 3.

 

[northside100]

If TKR or Gillis can't effectively play the three then your talking about splitting big minutes at the 4 and 5 between 4 guys, That's not going to happen, so one of our better players might be frozen out of the lineup similar to what happen to Newman this year.

Again, this isn't going to happen with Edey staying but it would have been interesting to see Purdue transition to a non post centric offense that would have been more agile on defense. 2018-2019 anyone?

Good post. A couple of points:

• You say that splitting time between four guys at the 4 and 5 'won't happen'. Why do you think that? I'd expect that that's exactly what will happen with Zach playing as many minutes as he can at the 5 (say 25mpg) and the remaining three guys splitting 55 minutes based on matchups, who is playing well, etc. That's close to 20 minute per player and while it won't be split evenly, I don't see a scenario like Brandon happening where he fell out of the rotation because Jaden and Sasha were each playing 30+mpg.
• I understand your point regarding the 2018-2019 team, I'd just say that that team worked because Carsen Edwards was an AA and he and Ryan Cline were two of the best players in the NCAAT that year. Maybe Pack and Brandon can duplicate that this year? The good news is that Zach and Caleb are very different players so MP and staff will have options.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Yes please! And 2009-2010 too!

Could not have said it better. When you have guys getting the bulk of the minutes who can move well laterally on defense and score on offense, you give yourself the best chance to make a FF run and more. Go Boilers!

I don't think its just the fact that the guys are 7' so much as that Edey and Haas weren't/aren't that athletic. I think AJ and Haarms were assets on defense due to their lateral quickness and their shot blocking ability. AJ was B1G defensive player of the year and led the league in block shots twice. Haarms was the conference defensive player of the year at BYU.

The problem with guys like Haas and Edey is that they are big liabilities on defense. Edey is a little better than Haas but Haas was often used as a screener picking off our own defenders on opponents drives to the basket. Opposing guards had no problem taking their time weaving their way into the paint and getting off shots this year. It never would have happened with AJ as those shots would have ended up in the 5th row.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Good post. A couple of points:

• You say that splitting time between four guys at the 4 and 5 'won't happen'. Why do you think that? I'd expect that that's exactly what will happen with Zach playing as many minutes as he can at the 5 (say 25mpg) and the remaining three guys splitting 55 minutes based on matchups, who is playing well, etc. That's close to 20 minute per player and while it won't be split evenly, I don't see a scenario like Brandon happening where he fell out of the rotation because Jaden and Sasha were each playing 30+mpg.
• I understand your point regarding the 2018-2019 team, I'd just say that that team worked because Carsen Edwards was an AA and he and Ryan Cline were two of the best players in the NCAAT that year. Maybe Pack and Brandon can duplicate that this year? The good news is that Zach and Caleb are very different players so MP and staff will have options.

Its just not the way the game is played. The back up and the starter just don't split 40 minutes. Teams settle into a 7 or 8 man rotation were the starters get the majority of minutes and two or three backups share minutes off the bench. Don't take it from me. Painter said the reason Newman wasn't playing was because he couldn't play 10 guys. Purdue did split the minutes with Edey and Williams this year but by the end of the year Purdue was only playing 7 or 8 guys meaningful minute.

Ivey averaged 32, Sasha 33, Hunter 28 and Gillis 25 minutes in B1G play. Those minutes are even skewed because Hunter played over 35 minutes in 5 out of Purdue's last 10 games. By the end of the year Morton was the primary backup at the 2, 3 and even sometimes the 4. Very few minutes for Furst, IT or Newman.

 

[Aamesker]

Its just not the way the game is played. The back up and the starter just don't split 40 minutes. Teams settle into a 7 or 8 man rotation were the starters get the majority of minutes and two or three backups share minutes off the bench. Don't take it from me. Painter said the reason Newman wasn't playing was because he couldn't play 10 guys. Purdue did split the minutes with Edey and Williams this year but by the end of the year Purdue was only playing 7 or 8 guys meaningful minute.

Ivey averaged 32, Sasha 33, Hunter 28 and Gillis 25 minutes in B1G play. Those minutes are even skewed because Hunter played over 35 minutes in 5 out of Purdue's last 10 games. By the end of the year Morton was the primary backup at the 2, 3 and even sometimes the 4. Very few minutes for Furst, IT or Newman.

IMO this is kind of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" situation. Newman showed he couldn't be effective in a limited minutes role, which meant he ended up just sitting instead of playing 10-15 minutes a game and would have probably benefited us when Sasha was off. IT got exposed in B1G play and couldn't play the minutes he was playing in non-conference, which meant Hunter had to play 35 minutes a game. Furst isn't really a 4, especially when playing against teams with athletic 4's and that meant Gillis and even Morton were playing the bulk of the minutes at the 4.

It's true that rotations do shrink, but the guys who were losing minutes were not making as big an impact to warrant keeping minutes. IMO, UNC probably would have won had they had an effective backup for Leaky Black and Armando Bacot to give them a breather when they got injured in the championship game. Nova could have benefited from a deeper bench when Justin Moore went down

 

[northside100]

Its just not the way the game is played. The back up and the starter just don't split 40 minutes. Teams settle into a 7 or 8 man rotation were the starters get the majority of minutes and two or three backups share minutes off the bench. Don't take it from me. Painter said the reason Newman wasn't playing was because he couldn't play 10 guys. Purdue did split the minutes with Edey and Williams this year but by the end of the year Purdue was only playing 7 or 8 guys meaningful minute.

Ivey averaged 32, Sasha 33, Hunter 28 and Gillis 25 minutes in B1G play. Those minutes are even skewed because Hunter played over 35 minutes in 5 out of Purdue's last 10 games. By the end of the year Morton was the primary backup at the 2, 3 and even sometimes the 4. Very few minutes for Furst, IT or Newman.

Agree that minutes are seldom split evenly. Why would you use the back court as an example when we're talking about the front court?

Do you expect Zach to play 30+ mpg? I would be shocked if he averages more than 25, but I could be wrong. Furst played less in the middle of the season because he hit a freshman wall, got sick and struggled to stay in front of smaller offensive players. Even so, Mason averaged less than 25 mpg. Is it possible that Mason plays 30+ mpg next year? Sure, but if Trey is as good as expected I think he'll get at least 15mpg.

 

[northside100]

IMO this is kind of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" situation. Newman showed he couldn't be effective in a limited minutes role, which meant he ended up just sitting instead of playing 10-15 minutes a game and would have probably benefited us when Sasha was off. IT got exposed in B1G play and couldn't play the minutes he was playing in non-conference, which meant Hunter had to play 35 minutes a game. Furst isn't really a 4, especially when playing against teams with athletic 4's and that meant Gillis and even Morton were playing the bulk of the minutes at the 4.

It's true that rotations do shrink, but the guys who were losing minutes were not making as big an impact to warrant keeping minutes. IMO, UNC probably would have won had they had an effective backup for Leaky Black and Armando Bacot to give them a breather when they got injured in the championship game. Nova could have benefited from a deeper bench when Justin Moore went down

Agree with this. In most cases someone is going to play more than their counterpart. Ideally that breaks down as a run of 7 to 8 minutes each half. Where Brandon got into trouble is that he struggled when they needed him to instead to in for 4 or 5 minutes at a pop. Huge advantage late in games if you can keep your starter's minutes around 25mpg without a significant falloff when their backup comes in.