video of another police shooting

[qazplm]

I know a few of the same folks on here will find a reason to blame the driver here, but I think it might be illustrative for a few of the reasonable folks on here who have a hard time understanding why a cop would shoot someone for no real reason.

Thankfully, this cop is such a poor shot, that he only hit the guy once, and thankfully the dash cam showed what happened and the cop is fired and facing charges with a 20 year max.

cops fires for complying with his instructions

 

[Beeazlebub]

Wow

Originally posted by qazplm:
I know a few of the same folks on here will find a reason to blame the driver here, but I think it might be illustrative for a few of the reasonable folks on here who have a hard time understanding why a cop would shoot someone for no real reason.

Thankfully, this cop is such a poor shot, that he only hit the guy once, and thankfully the dash cam showed what happened and the cop is fired and facing charges with a 20 year max.

Anyone who blames the driver in this situation is doing so because you were the one to post the video. This is simply infuriating.

Not defending the cop, but there must be a high degree of stress involved when you assume (oftentimes rightly) that everyone is armed. This is taking that stress to a whole new level.

 

[qazplm]

nah look at the comments

there are people defending the cop even then. Talking about how the guy moved too fast to comply with his commands, that he should have moved slowly and told the cop exactly what he was going to do and then gotten permission...as if failure to do those things justifies being killed...thankfully the cop is one of the worst shots in the history of humanity.

 

[beardownboiler]

Re: Wow

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by qazplm:
I know a few of the same folks on here will find a reason to blame the driver here, but I think it might be illustrative for a few of the reasonable folks on here who have a hard time understanding why a cop would shoot someone for no real reason.

Thankfully, this cop is such a poor shot, that he only hit the guy once, and thankfully the dash cam showed what happened and the cop is fired and facing charges with a 20 year max.

Anyone who blames the driver in this situation is doing so because you were the one to post the video. This is simply infuriating.

Not defending the cop, but there must be a high degree of stress involved when you assume (oftentimes rightly) that everyone is armed. This is taking that stress to a whole new level.

Bingo. I know that you aren't supposed to reach into the car (and I wouldn't blame the cop for yelling at the guy to stop), but to open fire? There's no excuse for that. At least the cop was fired right away, and the department didn't try to make some kind of statement.

Btw, I'm assuming this is the video from South Carolina with the guy getting shot at the gas station . . . didn't click on the link.

 

[atmafola]

thank god, there was a dash cam. Otherwise we would have been inundated with stories of the man being a thug who made a "threatening move" towards the police officer even after being warned resulting in him being shot multiple times. We might even get the customary "he attacked the officer"

It's a mad world when it is untrained everyday people that are expected to display excellent judgment and restraint but the trained officer is allowed to make rash and injudicious decisions even when it concerns life and death.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

That... was ridiculous. He will spend some time in prison, and rightly so.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[atmafola]

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
That... was ridiculous. He will spend some time in prison, and rightly so.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

The question is how many more weren't caught on cam where the victim died but the police walks free because of the narrative the police officer concocts to defend his actions after the fact. And gentlemen like yourself give the police the benefit of doubt well because.. idk.

 

[qazplm]

Did you know that the chief prosecutor looked at the video and originally said it was, and this is a quote, a "good shoot?"

It appears to have changed since then, but even this obvious example required teeth pulling of some level.

 

[laguna1]

The driver is you.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Purdue97]

Right on cue, Qaz knows what some folks on here are thinking, of course those same people are unreasonable and blame the driver.

Shots 1 and 2-The officer should have told the driver to freeze, stop moving, halt etc
Shots 3 and 4-Totally unjustified

Pretty lucky a gas line or bystander was not hit.

What did I think about it- How the hell did he miss 3 out of 4 times? And then apparently not even get a fatal shot off? Reminds me of what a buddy overseas said about insurgents/terrorists/whatever the govt labeled them at the time-"with a lot of these fighters, when in a fight, the safest place is in front of their barrell."

What was the cop thinking? I am sure that will come out. If I can take a guess the driver moved really fast back into his car, the cop did not know what he was doing, and likely thought he was reaching for a gun. That is a likely explanation for shots 1 and 2, although still not justified. Not sure what he was thinking on shots 3 and 4.

Not a cop here, do not have a real high opinion of them in general. Been in this situation or similar to it many times on deployments. Especially with younger guys with little experience, and guys that are non special operations, the attitude that kicks in is one of self preservation. Soldiers panic/get a bit scared and stressed, and in cases where no harm was intended, people are unarmed, people end up getting hurt quite often.

 

[Purdue97]

Watched the video another time

A possible interesting observation-

If you fast forward to shot fired number 4-

Note where the driver with hands up is and then focus on the side of the car. It appears a bullet hits the side of the car.

Don't officers have to qualify with a weapon regularly and then under some type of stress or duress? I mean, pathetic does not begin to describe that.

 

[qazplm]

did you get mental whiplash typing that first sentence?

 

[beardownboiler]

Originally posted by Purdue97:

What was the cop thinking? I am sure that will come out. If I can take a guess the driver moved really fast back into his car, the cop did not know what he was doing, and likely thought he was reaching for a gun. That is a likely explanation for shots 1 and 2, although still not justified. Not sure what he was thinking on shots 3 and 4.

This is pretty much my thought on it. The guy went in the car pretty fast, but it's fairly obvious (after the fact, mind you) that he was going for the ID/wallet. This is why people are advised to not reach for anything (hands on the wheel, etc.) when pulled over. I don't really think the cop is being malicious (in contrast to that video of the cop beating the woman on the side of the highway), but should still be fired for exercising horrible judgement. He was likely scared, etc . . . but being a cop requires good judgement, and it's obvious he doesn't have that.

So, while the guy probably should have gone about getting the ID in a different manner, the blame is still 100% on the cop. Just ludicrous.

 

[beardownboiler]

Re: Watched the video another time

Originally posted by Purdue97:
A possible interesting observation-

If you fast forward to shot fired number 4-

Note where the driver with hands up is and then focus on the side of the car. It appears a bullet hits the side of the car.

Don't officers have to qualify with a weapon regularly and then under some type of stress or duress? I mean, pathetic does not begin to describe that.

Just because I like throwing gas on the fire . . . . this is why I think concealed carry is a bad idea. If cops can't hit the broad side of a barn (or man), how do we expect private citizens to do the same in a high-stress situation?

 

[Purdue97]

I was guessing at what the cop was thinking. I know in a post I said the guy moved fast(what it looked like to cop), but if you look at his movements it is more of he puts his hand in or near his pocket, realizes he left his wallet int the car, and turns to get it.

Really rather deliberate IMO.

 

[Purdue97]

None whatsoever(nm)

1

 

[Stairwayto7]

Re: Watched the video another time

Originally posted by beardownboiler:

Originally posted by Purdue97:
A possible interesting observation-

If you fast forward to shot fired number 4-

Note where the driver with hands up is and then focus on the side of the car. It appears a bullet hits the side of the car.

Don't officers have to qualify with a weapon regularly and then under some type of stress or duress? I mean, pathetic does not begin to describe that.

Just because I like throwing gas on the fire . . . . this is why I think concealed carry is a bad idea. If cops can't hit the broad side of a barn (or man), how do we expect private citizens to do the same in a high-stress situation?

The best quarterbacks in the NFL still make mistakes under stress. Many concealed carry holders are far better shots than many cops because they shoot in their free time to hon their skills. Cops shoot based on department funds and ammunition available. I have served with some cops who left the police and joined the military, some of the worst shots I have ever seen in my life. The guys who grew up around guns and hunting are usually our best shooters. Open carry is silly compared to concealed carry because with open carry gives the criminal the edge of knowing what he or she is dealing with. Concealed carry can give the element of surprise.

Qaz where does your disdain of police come from? There are dirt bags in all professions and more people than police abuse their power or influence...politicians, military, sigh...even lawyers.

 

[beardownboiler]

Re: Watched the video another time

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:

Originally posted by beardownboiler:

Originally posted by Purdue97:
A possible interesting observation-

If you fast forward to shot fired number 4-

Note where the driver with hands up is and then focus on the side of the car. It appears a bullet hits the side of the car.

Don't officers have to qualify with a weapon regularly and then under some type of stress or duress? I mean, pathetic does not begin to describe that.

Just because I like throwing gas on the fire . . . . this is why I think concealed carry is a bad idea. If cops can't hit the broad side of a barn (or man), how do we expect private citizens to do the same in a high-stress situation?

The best quarterbacks in the NFL still make mistakes under stress. Many concealed carry holders are far better shots than many cops because they shoot in their free time to hon their skills. Cops shoot based on department funds and ammunition available. I have served with some cops who left the police and joined the military, some of the worst shots I have ever seen in my life. The guys who grew up around guns and hunting are usually our best shooters. Open carry is silly compared to concealed carry because with open carry gives the criminal the edge of knowing what he or she is dealing with. Concealed carry can give the element of surprise.

Qaz where does your disdain of police come from? There are dirt bags in all professions and more people than police abuse their power or influence...politicians, military, sigh...even lawyers.

Don't even get me started on open carry. I'll take concealed over open carry any day of the week. Open carry makes no sense at all.

Anyway, the difference between the NFL QBs missing passes and citizens missing shots is huge. A missed pass doesn't result in a death (most of the time . . . . ).

 

[Stairwayto7]

The point is even the best mess up under stress

 

[beardownboiler]

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:
The point is even the best mess up under stress

Yep . . . so I'd rather not have less than the best out there to mess up even more.

EDIT: I'm just going to add this. I've never met you, but from your posts on here/context, I trust you on the street with a gun. It's not reasonable gun owners I fear with guns. It's not even the criminals that I fear. It's morons. Morons are the problem.

This post was edited on 9/26 4:12 PM by beardownboiler

 

[Stairwayto7]

That problem effects every career sadly, just some careers have more at stake than others. Being in situations where life and death can be a matter of a few seconds you want the best but in reality you have to deal with what you have. Luckily one of my best soldiers was in the situation where an Afghan pointed a toy gun at him and was able to stop his follow though with his draw and not shoot the idiot. One of my other soldiers may have done nothing or would have followed through and shot the guy. Doing nothing would be bad to because it would show our soldiers aren't ready to react to threats.

I know a lot more police officers who have been shot at than those who have ever fired their firearm. I am not justifying this guy by any means, but you cannot judge all police by the actions of a handful of officers across the country. But Qaz sure seems to be on a witch hunt about police.

 

[qazplm]

Yes clearly I can only be talking about all police everywhere always

 

[atmafola]

Open carry has to be one of the most idiotic things ever concocted in the USA. I abhor guns, don't plan to ever own any but I respect the right of others to carry it for whatever their reasons are. But open carry is just madness. And as an African American, it scares the hell out of me. Whether we like it or not, young african americans carrying openly will get less benefit of the doubt from the public and police than some of our fine older gentleman on this board. The end result is probably more stupid and unnecessary deaths.

But to each his own. I stay far away from guns and the people who carry them.

 

[Stairwayto7]

The title of your post speaks for itself.

 

[Stairwayto7]

Originally posted by atmafola:
Open carry has to be one of the most idiotic things ever concocted in the USA. I abhor guns, don't plan to ever own any but I respect the right of others to carry it for whatever their reasons are. But open carry is just madness. And as an African American, it scares the hell out of me. Whether we like it or not, young african americans carrying openly will get less benefit of the doubt from the public and police than some of our fine older gentleman on this board. The end result is probably more stupid and unnecessary deaths.

But to each his own. I stay far away from guns and the people who carry them.

I grew up around guns and now I use them a lot for work. But to me guns have always been viewed as tools, not toys. As a kid they were for training and hunting. No good hunter doesn't neglect practice before the season starts. As an adult and a professional guns were the tool of my trade, a weapon war. They are made for one thing, killing. Killing bears great responsibility on those who say yes I will shoulder that burden. The gun becomes part of your body, you treat it as your child. you clean it you feed it, you know that if you take good care of it that it will take good care of you. You know everything you need to know about it. You master it, you get the point where you panic when you no longer have it at your side. You spend time honing your skills both on and off duty. Because of this I am totally comfortable with all firearms, but I am always at a heightened level of discomfort when I see others open carrying. If I don't know them, I don't know how well trained they actually are.

The flaw I see with the open carry system is that I doubt many of those who open carry have ever had the burden of carrying a gun in a place where people want to kill you. They aren't doing it as a measure of security, they are doing it as a statement, a form of intimidation. As a soldier my strength doesn't lie in the fact that I have a gun, it lies within the idea that I am surgical with it and I have brothers who are just as good if not better watching my back as I watch theirs.

 

[kescwi]

I don't watch the news and had not heard about this. I asked my wife about it, she spends half her week in Columbia, and she said isn't the troopers first shooting and apparently PTSD from the first shooting is his defense at this point.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Stairwayto7]

The legal system can work

A poster above mentioned being African American and thinking owning guns is a bad idea. Well here is a case where an African American man defended his home against what many consider and illegal practice by law enforcement. No-knock raids are a scary byproduct of the law enforcement community becoming more militarized. We use them in the military because we need the edge, police are not supposed to be hunting and killing people like our special operations units. Needless to say the system worked and the man was justified in self defense. Shame on the police for using such a tactic that in the end gets officers killed.

Self Defense against Police

 

[qazplm]

Yes clearly that highly provocative title says all police are murderers... I mean it looks like a plain and accurate description but you've seen through it all.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Generally speaking, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the police rather than someone pulled over on probable cause of breaking some law, yes. I don't think that is unreasonable.

That said, I am also willing to treat each on a case by case basis, rather than defaulting to F the Police until proven innocent.

Why is that wrong? Please, explain why I deserve your criticism in this regard.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[atmafola]

Re: The legal system can work

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:
A poster above mentioned being African American and thinking owning guns is a bad idea.

That was just a personal choice. I didn't grow up around guns, I don't hunt or engage in any other firearm-related recreation. I am not involved in gangs or drugs. For me, not owning a firearm is a statistically safer choice than owning one. The calculus is probably different for everyone else and their choice is their prerogative.

What I clearly was against was open carry. I think it is extremely stupid and for african americans in particular could lead to more pointless and unnecessary deaths e.g. the young man killed by police in Ohio Walmart.

And GIman. nope you are not wrong in giving LEO's benefit of doubt. Just remember, LEOs are humans too and are not immune from telling self-serving stories or making stupid decisions from time to time.

 

[Stairwayto7]

Re: The legal system can work

Originally posted by atmafola:

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:
A poster above mentioned being African American and thinking owning guns is a bad idea.

That was just a personal choice. I didn't grow up around guns, I don't hunt or engage in any other firearm-related recreation. I am not involved in gangs or drugs. For me, not owning a firearm is a statistically safer choice than owning one. The calculus is probably different for everyone else and their choice is their prerogative.

What I clearly was against was open carry. I think it is extremely stupid and for african americans in particular could lead to more pointless and unnecessary deaths e.g. the young man killed by police in Ohio Walmart.

And GIman. nope you are not wrong in giving LEO's benefit of doubt. Just remember, LEOs are humans too and are not immune from telling self-serving stories or making stupid decisions from time to time.

You do certainly learn from the environment you grow up in. Most of the people I know that get uncomfortable around firearms never associated with them in the environment they grew up in. At least you can be objective on the case. Like many issues there are extremes that draw a lot of attention but do not represent the majority of people. Sadly I think that when the government pushes for more gun control it pushes many even further right. Though I love shooting my guns, hunting and training with them, I rarely use public ranges simply because I don't trust many people with guns. The incident in AZ is a key point. We don't have a gun problem, we have idiots with a gun problem.

Interesting that you mention the Ohio incident. That case really got me mad and I think the guy who made the 9/11 call should face charges too. He essentially escalated the situation and painted a completely wrong picture to the police. It is people like that man who live in fear and cannot rationally deduce an adult male buying a BB gun from Wal-Mart to a completely legal and ethically sound decision that create even more problems. The caller created an emergency in insinuated hysteria. Also the reason why I never will consider buying anything firearm related from Wal-Mart again simply because of the people there. Nobody will call 9/11 on me for buying a gun from a gun only shop.

 

[beardownboiler]

Re: The legal system can work

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:

Originally posted by atmafola:

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:
A poster above mentioned being African American and thinking owning guns is a bad idea.

That was just a personal choice. I didn't grow up around guns, I don't hunt or engage in any other firearm-related recreation. I am not involved in gangs or drugs. For me, not owning a firearm is a statistically safer choice than owning one. The calculus is probably different for everyone else and their choice is their prerogative.

What I clearly was against was open carry. I think it is extremely stupid and for african americans in particular could lead to more pointless and unnecessary deaths e.g. the young man killed by police in Ohio Walmart.

And GIman. nope you are not wrong in giving LEO's benefit of doubt. Just remember, LEOs are humans too and are not immune from telling self-serving stories or making stupid decisions from time to time.

You do certainly learn from the environment you grow up in. Most of the people I know that get uncomfortable around firearms never associated with them in the environment they grew up in. At least you can be objective on the case. Like many issues there are extremes that draw a lot of attention but do not represent the majority of people. Sadly I think that when the government pushes for more gun control it pushes many even further right. Though I love shooting my guns, hunting and training with them, I rarely use public ranges simply because I don't trust many people with guns. The incident in AZ is a key point. We don't have a gun problem, we have idiots with a gun problem.

Interesting that you mention the Ohio incident. That case really got me mad and I think the guy who made the 9/11 call should face charges too. He essentially escalated the situation and painted a completely wrong picture to the police. It is people like that man who live in fear and cannot rationally deduce an adult male buying a BB gun from Wal-Mart to a completely legal and ethically sound decision that create even more problems. The caller created an emergency in insinuated hysteria. Also the reason why I never will consider buying anything firearm related from Wal-Mart again simply because of the people there. Nobody will call 9/11 on me for buying a gun from a gun only shop.

"Hello, 911? I'm in a gun shop and there's a man in here with a gun!"

How do you propose we resolve this issue? (seriously)