Scrimmage

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

The event was a lot of fun. Great response to Gene Keady and I suspect he was the reason for the large player turnout. Must have been at least 50 ex players there. Was really neat to see guys years and decades later, with kids in hand and all grown up. Introducing them took a long time and the game took quite a while and they ended up switching the scrimmage to 12 minute halves instead of the 20 that was planned apparently.
Sasha was unconscious, I'm not sure he even hit iron. Eric Hunter was there looking happy and greeting everyone involved. Shot it well also. One of my all time favorites, Lewis Jackson looks like he could play today. FIT and bouncy. Troy Lewis was there. Hell, even Frank Kendrick can still play! Was fun.
Scrimmage was ok, lots of effort, early season "form". You can see the competition at every position and there's not a weak link on the team. Every scholy man is legitimately competing for PT on a top 5 team in the country. And I think walk on Sam King would have played on quite a few Boiler teams of the past.
They ALL showed "what they do" at times, yet nobody dominated. Most interesting to me was Caleb Furst and TKR. Both look fit, strong and ready to do battle. TKR won this one. He was the most unstoppable force out there and looked very impressive offensively, refusing to be denied lane access and hitting the only jumpers he took. Caleb looked very strong and bouncy but could not stop TKR with both of them playing very hard. Caleb tried to match him, but missed more shots where TKR was almost flawless. He showed that ability to use his pivot very effectively to get his shot off cleanly. His defense will factor, but he's going to be hard to keep off the floor I think.
I thought Lance Jones was quietly effective in his first minutes as a Boiler. Fit in. Very quick and strong looking. Talk of early practice was his defensive potential and that showed immediately. Going to be a big help having him back there to spell and match up with other teams big time scoring guards. Does not appear to be a true pg, but handles the ball well and seemed to have a quick first step. Made a couple of 3's as well. He and Brandon had a nice battle that I expect will continue and help development of both.
Cam Heide threw down some impressive dunks in warmups. Easy lift with this kid, barely looks like any effort and he's at the rim. That said he and Brian Waddell were pretty much a wash (I think) and seemed equally matched. Waddell definitely gets minutes. Another good battle there.
Myles Colvin is an impressive young guy, bigger than I expected and very fast and bouncy. Flashes of brilliance but quiet-ish in general as one might expect from a freshman in his first minutes on Keady court.
Going to be a star eventually but not sure he's beating out Heide and Waddell for minutes real soon. Probably depends on his defensive efforts but this team has so many (apparent!!) ways to score that they shouldn't 'need' him for that this year. On lots (most?) other Boiler teams he probably gets force fed and thrown to the wolves early, but not this year. I "think".... big time potential there for sure.
Everyone looked bigger and stronger to me except Fletcher Loyer and he may just not have the body type to show it even if he is much stronger (hopefully). He shot it well and looks confident.
Brandon Smith looked stronger and ready to go. He didn't try to do too much and with all our fire power that's all he needs to do. PLaying against L Jones is going to make him better.
Coach was all over the floor, sitting and shouting instructions from every position. He tried to stay quiet but couldn't help himself "TOO EASY" was heard multiple times.

 

[Schnelk]

Did TKR take any midrange jumpers? Furst? Heidi?

 

[ChoiceBeef]

 

[tjreese]

The event was a lot of fun. Great response to Gene Keady and I suspect he was the reason for the large player turnout. Must have been at least 50 ex players there. Was really neat to see guys years and decades later, with kids in hand and all grown up. Introducing them took a long time and the game took quite a while and they ended up switching the scrimmage to 12 minute halves instead of the 20 that was planned apparently.
Sasha was unconscious, I'm not sure he even hit iron. Eric Hunter was there looking happy and greeting everyone involved. Shot it well also. One of my all time favorites, Lewis Jackson looks like he could play today. FIT and bouncy. Troy Lewis was there. Hell, even Frank Kendrick can still play! Was fun.
Scrimmage was ok, lots of effort, early season "form". You can see the competition at every position and there's not a weak link on the team. Every scholy man is legitimately competing for PT on a top 5 team in the country. And I think walk on Sam King would have played on quite a few Boiler teams of the past.
They ALL showed "what they do" at times, yet nobody dominated. Most interesting to me was Caleb Furst and TKR. Both look fit, strong and ready to do battle. TKR won this one. He was the most unstoppable force out there and looked very impressive offensively, refusing to be denied lane access and hitting the only jumpers he took. Caleb looked very strong and bouncy but could not stop TKR with both of them playing very hard. Caleb tried to match him, but missed more shots where TKR was almost flawless. He showed that ability to use his pivot very effectively to get his shot off cleanly. His defense will factor, but he's going to be hard to keep off the floor I think.
I thought Lance Jones was quietly effective in his first minutes as a Boiler. Fit in. Very quick and strong looking. Talk of early practice was his defensive potential and that showed immediately. Going to be a big help having him back there to spell and match up with other teams big time scoring guards. Does not appear to be a true pg, but handles the ball well and seemed to have a quick first step. Made a couple of 3's as well. He and Brandon had a nice battle that I expect will continue and help development of both.
Cam Heide threw down some impressive dunks in warmups. Easy lift with this kid, barely looks like any effort and he's at the rim. That said he and Brian Waddell were pretty much a wash (I think) and seemed equally matched. Waddell definitely gets minutes. Another good battle there.
Myles Colvin is an impressive young guy, bigger than I expected and very fast and bouncy. Flashes of brilliance but quiet-ish in general as one might expect from a freshman in his first minutes on Keady court.
Going to be a star eventually but not sure he's beating out Heide and Waddell for minutes real soon. Probably depends on his defensive efforts but this team has so many (apparent!!) ways to score that they shouldn't 'need' him for that this year. On lots (most?) other Boiler teams he probably gets force fed and thrown to the wolves early, but not this year. I "think".... big time potential there for sure.
Everyone looked bigger and stronger to me except Fletcher Loyer and he may just not have the body type to show it even if he is much stronger (hopefully). He shot it well and looks confident.
Brandon Smith looked stronger and ready to go. He didn't try to do too much and with all our fire power that's all he needs to do. PLaying against L Jones is going to make him better.
Coach was all over the floor, sitting and shouting instructions from every position. He tried to stay quiet but couldn't help himself "TOO EASY" was heard multiple times.

Matt was not happy with the D and why the "Too Easy". I'm not surprised considering so many distractions. That said Matt does NOT want distractions to affect performance...that is some mental toughness and discipline that will get attention.

 

[tjreese]

Did TKR take any midrange jumpers? Furst? Heidi?

I can't recall any. Caleb drove once on Berg and dunked it. The rest of the time he was either rolling to the rim or standing behind the arc. Had good looks and missed...seen that before a few times last year. I couldn't see if his wrist went sideways or not like last year. Cam battled inside...maybe hit a baseline 3 and maybe missed another...can't recall him driving the ball any. Trey hit one 3 I think. Most his baskets were due to his footwork inside slipping through gaps and a couple of reverse pivots that scored and one that almost drew a charge. He gets a bit on auto pilot with that move...no hurry there Trey, check the help and don't get on auto pilot. I think Trey drove once for a score down the lane on the right side. The ones got into the lane for the most part and checked out things while getting good looks were Fletcher, Braden and Myles. I never watched Myles D, but he had Fletch and Fletch scored a lot. No surprise there. Braden was off on his shooting. There will be an adjustment mentally in looking for your shot a bit more in that the mindset is entirely different than the other spots especially when most of the offense is not dribble drive where that mindset is a bit different for the 1. I'll add that Lance drove the ball well and made some good passes, but he was either shooting the 3 or at the basket yesterday I think.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I can't recall any. Caleb drove once on Berg and dunked it. The rest of the time he was either rolling to the rim or standing behind the arc. Had good looks and missed...seen that before a few times last year. I couldn't see if his wrist went sideways or not like last year. Cam battled inside...maybe hit a baseline 3 and maybe missed another...can't recall him driving the ball any. Trey hit one 3 I think. Most his baskets were due to his footwork inside slipping through gaps and a couple of reverse pivots that scored and one that almost drew a charge. He gets a bit on auto pilot with that move...no hurry there Trey, check the help and don't get on auto pilot. I think Trey drove once for a score down the lane on the right side. The ones got into the lane for the most part and checked out things while getting good looks were Fletcher, Braden and Myles. I never watched Myles D, but he had Fletch and Fletch scored a lot. No surprise there. Braden was off on his shooting. There will be an adjustment mentally in looking for your shot a bit more in that the mindset is entirely different than the other spots especially when most of the offense is not dribble drive where that mindset is a bit different for the 1. I'll add that Lance drove the ball well and made some good passes, but he was either shooting the 3 or at the basket yesterday I think.

was Gillis wearing a mask? precautionary ?

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Did TKR take any midrange jumpers? Furst? Heidi?

I think TKR took 1 besides the 3 he made. None for Furst that I saw. Heidi had several mid range shots and appeared comfortable there, as though it's a normal shot for him. I think he made a 3. Waddell had a couple of 3's, think he missed a couple shorter shots.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

was Gillis wearing a mask? precautionary ?

He was until he got frustrated and threw it down hard. LOL, picked it up a minute later but it was obvious he didn't like it. Couldn't tell why, no apparent black eyes or such. Furst had a collision with someone (TKR?) and was bleeding by 1 eye halfway through 2nd half. He didnt' return to the floor, so hoping it's not concussion protocol.

 

[Smokestack91]

He was until he got frustrated and threw it down hard. LOL, picked it up a minute later but it was obvious he didn't like it. Couldn't tell why, no apparent black eyes or such. Furst had a collision with someone (TKR?) and was bleeding by 1 eye halfway through 2nd half. He didnt' return to the floor, so hoping it's not concussion protocol.

I thought Mason threw the mask down because he was upset with the play (can't remember what it was exactly). But you may be right -- it may have been frustration with the mask. We were near Furst after the game, and he had stitches but seemed in a great mood with no effect at all from the collision. In fact, he was mad when he had to come out of the scrimmage to get it taken care of.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I thought Mason threw the mask down because he was upset with the play (can't remember what it was exactly). But you may be right -- it may have been frustration with the mask. We were near Furst after the game, and he had stitches but seemed in a great mood with no effect at all from the collision. In fact, he was mad when he had to come out of the scrimmage to get it taken care of.

ahh, I just looked at Mason as he was throwing it. Didn't see what happened prior. Good to hear about caleb. He didn't know he was bleeding till someone pointed to it and did look annoyed to come out. Happy he's ok.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

ahh, I just looked at Mason as he was throwing it. Didn't see what happened prior. Good to hear about caleb. He didn't know he was bleeding till someone pointed to it and did look annoyed to come out. Happy he's ok.

I believe he tried to drive left and lost control and turned it over. Wonder how long he has to wear that thing.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

The event was a lot of fun. Great response to Gene Keady and I suspect he was the reason for the large player turnout. Must have been at least 50 ex players there. Was really neat to see guys years and decades later, with kids in hand and all grown up. Introducing them took a long time and the game took quite a while and they ended up switching the scrimmage to 12 minute halves instead of the 20 that was planned apparently.
Sasha was unconscious, I'm not sure he even hit iron. Eric Hunter was there looking happy and greeting everyone involved. Shot it well also. One of my all time favorites, Lewis Jackson looks like he could play today. FIT and bouncy. Troy Lewis was there. Hell, even Frank Kendrick can still play! Was fun.
Scrimmage was ok, lots of effort, early season "form". You can see the competition at every position and there's not a weak link on the team. Every scholy man is legitimately competing for PT on a top 5 team in the country. And I think walk on Sam King would have played on quite a few Boiler teams of the past.
They ALL showed "what they do" at times, yet nobody dominated. Most interesting to me was Caleb Furst and TKR. Both look fit, strong and ready to do battle. TKR won this one. He was the most unstoppable force out there and looked very impressive offensively, refusing to be denied lane access and hitting the only jumpers he took. Caleb looked very strong and bouncy but could not stop TKR with both of them playing very hard. Caleb tried to match him, but missed more shots where TKR was almost flawless. He showed that ability to use his pivot very effectively to get his shot off cleanly. His defense will factor, but he's going to be hard to keep off the floor I think.
I thought Lance Jones was quietly effective in his first minutes as a Boiler. Fit in. Very quick and strong looking. Talk of early practice was his defensive potential and that showed immediately. Going to be a big help having him back there to spell and match up with other teams big time scoring guards. Does not appear to be a true pg, but handles the ball well and seemed to have a quick first step. Made a couple of 3's as well. He and Brandon had a nice battle that I expect will continue and help development of both.
Cam Heide threw down some impressive dunks in warmups. Easy lift with this kid, barely looks like any effort and he's at the rim. That said he and Brian Waddell were pretty much a wash (I think) and seemed equally matched. Waddell definitely gets minutes. Another good battle there.
Myles Colvin is an impressive young guy, bigger than I expected and very fast and bouncy. Flashes of brilliance but quiet-ish in general as one might expect from a freshman in his first minutes on Keady court.
Going to be a star eventually but not sure he's beating out Heide and Waddell for minutes real soon. Probably depends on his defensive efforts but this team has so many (apparent!!) ways to score that they shouldn't 'need' him for that this year. On lots (most?) other Boiler teams he probably gets force fed and thrown to the wolves early, but not this year. I "think".... big time potential there for sure.
Everyone looked bigger and stronger to me except Fletcher Loyer and he may just not have the body type to show it even if he is much stronger (hopefully). He shot it well and looks confident.
Brandon Smith looked stronger and ready to go. He didn't try to do too much and with all our fire power that's all he needs to do. PLaying against L Jones is going to make him better.
Coach was all over the floor, sitting and shouting instructions from every position. He tried to stay quiet but couldn't help himself "TOO EASY" was heard multiple times.

Agree with a lot here. However, not sure how Waddell gets that many mins this year. His shot looked good, but so many other dudes that prob should get minutes before him. Maybe he gets 5-8 a night? Some more thoughts…
TKR really impressed. What impressed me
most was him bringing the ball up full court after the rebound. Another time, he had it on the left side of the three point line, saw play was busted or not going to work, dribble to a little past FT line, picked up dribble, got double teamed, split it by pivoting through and finished at the rim. He was finishing well at the rim and was shooting midrange jumpers and 3s in warmups. Not sure how space he will have with edey in there, but we need to make sure TKR is starting at the 4 or else we are wasting his talent. Furst looked for his shot and had a lot of bounce. Berg moved a lot better than I thought he would coming off his injuries. He was hitting 15-18 footers, as well as 3s in warmups and looked smooth. He it on the deck a few times and looked comfortable doing so. However, he is still learning and painter had come over to talk to him about a bad pass he had out of a double team. He definitely is a different big than painter has recruited before, and prob will see anywhere from 5-10 (at max) mins a night.
Fletcher looked good shooting it and was aggressive getting to the basket. He was running off double screens to get open and he was getting some separation and shooting it more than he did last year when that happened. I hope he can stay that way all year, cuz we will need him hitting big shots like he did vs sparty. Colvin just floats in the air when he goes to dunk and has a real good looking shot. He was able to go get his own shot whenever he wanted, granted it may have not been what painter wanted for those possessions. Didn’t seem to run too much for him, but makes sense for someone who was with U19 team for parts of the summer. Very encouraged by him. Kid has a LOT of potential…he turns 18 in a few days. I am guessing we bring him along slow and he will eventually be 15-20 mins by late half of the season.
Heide looks like a Bball player and soared for some of those 11 boards he had. Looked like he was a bit timid for first time action at Mackey and has a little bit to go, but hopefully he can contribute quickly. He looked good in warmups.
Jones at times, kicked his quickness to another gear. Was surprised by his shooting and I wouldn’t doubt he has improved Braden’s game by guarding him every day. Will be a great complement to Smith. Hopefully they split time at PG, something like 20-25 mins max for smith and 15-20 for Jones. That way, Braden won’t be gassed at the end of games like he was from January on.
Braden was the same pest on defense, kid is a ball hawk and fun to watch. His handles seem to have gotten better. Only thing I noticed that bothered me was him fading on his jump shots inside the 3pt line. Not sure if that’s something he has been working on or if that is a bad habit, but that shot it really tough to consistently make (unless your Kobe, jordan or lebron or I guess any pro player haha). Hope he doesn’t do that all year or if he does, hits it consistently.
Noticed FTs weren’t great, but it’s early and hopefully won’t become a thing.
Guys were hustling left and right and we are deep at every position and hopefully will help us make a deep run.
Do note all this is based on Edey not there, so who knows how we will actually be when Maple is back.

 

[Wolegib]

A question about players a minutes. In past seasons younger players receive a lot more minutes early in the season. And then see their minutes diminished and replaced by older, more experienced players. They don’t seem like they are given the opportunity for in season progression. I’m not saying that is bad or good. I’m just curious who was the last first year player that actually saw his minutes increase as the season progressed? And what first year player that wasn’t a starter ended up replacing a more experienced player as the season progressed? If miles and Heidi don’t start on day one, Do they have a realistic chance of beating out the player who is starting as the season progresses? If Gillis and Morton start on day 1 will they lose their starting roles as the season progresses? Maybe this is why we always start out of the gate looking awesome and fail down the stretch. As mediocre experienced players receive more playing time over the younger players who make mistakes. But not given an opportunity to build on those mistakes!

 

[BoilerDeac]

The more I hear about TKR and Furst, the more it makes me wish Zach went pro, as crazy as that sounds. I just don't see how one of them doesn't get left out of the fold with only so many minutes to go around.

As fun as this year will be, I'm excited for TKR and Furst both in the starting lineup next season.

 

[purduedavie]

The more I hear about TKR and Furst, the more it makes me wish Zach went pro, as crazy as that sounds. I just don't see how one of them doesn't get left out of the fold with only so many minutes to go around.

As fun as this year will be, I'm excited for TKR and Furst both in the starting lineup next season.

Trust me, be happy Zac stayed, Purdue had a player of the year return to team, be happy. TKR will start at the 4, he’ll get over 20 minutes a game, Furst probably gets close to 20 minutes as well, Gillis might be the one that loses some minutes.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

A question about players a minutes. In past seasons younger players receive a lot more minutes early in the season. And then see their minutes diminished and replaced by older, more experienced players. They don’t seem like they are given the opportunity for in season progression. I’m not saying that is bad or good. I’m just curious who was the last first year player that actually saw his minutes increase as the season progressed? And what first year player that wasn’t a starter ended up replacing a more experienced player as the season progressed? If miles and Heidi don’t start on day one, Do they have a realistic chance of beating out the player who is starting as the season progresses? If Gillis and Morton start on day 1 will they lose their starting roles as the season progresses? Maybe this is why we always start out of the gate looking awesome and fail down the stretch. As mediocre experienced players receive more playing time over the younger players who make mistakes. But not given an opportunity to build on those mistakes!

Yeah I hear you and good points. I can’t think of really anyone off the top of my head…besides Carsen and Biggie. If Morton is seeing 20-25 mins towards the end of the season we are in trouble and aren’t making a significant run in the tourney (unless he is significantly improved on the offensive side and also better on defense—not a believer that he is some “defensive stopper” as I have yet to see who he stopped last year or ever, but I will gladly eat my words if he is somehow better this year). I love Gillis, but don’t see how he fits in if we are to make a run in the tourney. He’s an undersized 4 and seems to be too slow to guard the 3 (hope I can get proved wrong and he can) and doesn’t seem comfortable driving to the hole.

 

[Thadoc1]

The more I hear about TKR and Furst, the more it makes me wish Zach went pro, as crazy as that sounds. I just don't see how one of them doesn't get left out of the fold with only so many minutes to go around.

As fun as this year will be, I'm excited for TKR and Furst both in the starting lineup next season.

Do you want to win big or just have every player play the same minutes?....tkr, furst, Gillis, Morton, Waddell etc knew the competition for minutes this year but all decided to stay....they want to be part of a historic Purdue team....they know it and I'm sure are thrilled to have Zach back....he's the best player since big dog and the main reason why we have a chance for greatness....I don't get why people gripe about final fours yet when we have a superstar on our team we wish we didn't....I'll never take Zach for granted...winning has to be enough this year...

 

[SCBoiler1]

Do you want to win big or just have every player play the same minutes?....tkr, furst, Gillis, Morton, Waddell etc knew the competition for minutes this year but all decided to stay....they want to be part of a historic Purdue team....they know it and I'm sure are thrilled to have Zach back....he's the best player since big dog and the main reason why we have a chance for greatness....I don't get why people gripe about final fours yet when we have a superstar on our team we wish we didn't....I'll never take Zach for granted...winning has to be enough this year...

Exactly! Purdue is a FF contender for one reason. Zach Edey. To get it done he's going to need a strong supporting cast, but if you listen to Painter's interview from this weekend its clear. The guys who are going to play are the guys that can compliment Edey's game. Hard stop.

Zach will get the same 32 minutes per game he got last year, which means either Gillis, Furst or TKR will see limited minutes. Last year TKR pretty much only played the 5 so he was limited to around 10 minutes per game while Furst and Gillis played close to 20. The question is going to be how do these minutes shift, if at all.

Same thing in the backcourt. Smith and Loyer are probably locked in for around 30 minutes like last year. That leaves 60 minutes for 5 guys. Colvin, Heide, Jones, Morton and Waddell. I'm guessing Jones is a lock for around 15 just because we don't have another guard to handle the point (like Jenkins last year). That leaves 45 minutes for the remaining 4 guys. My guess is two of those guys will average 20 minutes (like Morton and Newman last year) and the other two will see limited minutes throughout the year (like Waddell did last year).

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Exactly! Purdue is a FF contender for one reason. Zach Edey. To get it done he's going to need a strong supporting cast, but if you listen to Painter's interview from this weekend its clear. The guys who are going to play are the guys that can compliment Edey's game. Hard stop.

Zach will get the same 32 minutes per game he got last year, which means either Gillis, Furst or TKR will see limited minutes. Last year TKR pretty much only played the 5 so he was limited to around 10 minutes per game while Furst and Gillis played close to 20. The question is going to be how do these minutes shift, if at all.

Same thing in the backcourt. Smith and Loyer are probably locked in for around 30 minutes like last year. That leaves 60 minutes for 5 guys. Colvin, Heide, Jones, Morton and Waddell. I'm guessing Jones is a lock for around 15 just because we don't have another guard to handle the point (like Jenkins last year). That leaves 45 minutes for the remaining 4 guys. My guess is two of those guys will average 20 minutes (like Morton and Newman last year) and the other two will see limited minutes throughout the year (like Waddell did last year).

Both Smith and Loyer were gassed at the end of last season. No way they play 30 minutes a game again. Not that they couldn't, but you have decent backups behind both (presumably). There will be times Loyer will be sitting for Jones to D up on someones big scorer I think. And Colvin may have a say in things.
Heide and Waddell are both front court players. Heide led both teams in rebounding at the scrimmage (10+). They can shoot but they are not guards.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Do you want to win big or just have every player play the same minutes?....tkr, furst, Gillis, Morton, Waddell etc knew the competition for minutes this year but all decided to stay....they want to be part of a historic Purdue team....they know it and I'm sure are thrilled to have Zach back....he's the best player since big dog and the main reason why we have a chance for greatness....I don't get why people gripe about final fours yet when we have a superstar on our team we wish we didn't....I'll never take Zach for granted...winning has to be enough this year...

It's not just that -- it's also the fact that, as good as Zach is, I think it's fair to wonder if, at times, does playing through Zach all the time make Purdue a bit TOO traditional and one-dimensional...which ultimately hurt them in the NCAA tournament.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Exactly! Purdue is a FF contender for one reason. Zach Edey. To get it done he's going to need a strong supporting cast, but if you listen to Painter's interview from this weekend its clear. The guys who are going to play are the guys that can compliment Edey's game. Hard stop.

Zach will get the same 32 minutes per game he got last year, which means either Gillis, Furst or TKR will see limited minutes. Last year TKR pretty much only played the 5 so he was limited to around 10 minutes per game while Furst and Gillis played close to 20. The question is going to be how do these minutes shift, if at all.

Same thing in the backcourt. Smith and Loyer are probably locked in for around 30 minutes like last year. That leaves 60 minutes for 5 guys. Colvin, Heide, Jones, Morton and Waddell. I'm guessing Jones is a lock for around 15 just because we don't have another guard to handle the point (like Jenkins last year). That leaves 45 minutes for the remaining 4 guys. My guess is two of those guys will average 20 minutes (like Morton and Newman last year) and the other two will see limited minutes throughout the year (like Waddell did last year).

The guys who are going to play are the guys that can compliment Edey's game. Hard stop.

And this is what concerns me. Because, in theory, someone like Gillis and/or Morton better compliments Edey's game than other more dynamic, athletic players like Furst and TKR.

Yet, the tradeoff seems to be that it makes Purdue less dynamic, more predictable, and, if we're paying attention to patterns, an early tournament exit.

Basketball is weird. Structuring your entire team around ONE player seemingly makes a lot of sense when that player is as dominant as Edey, but even that can be dangerous and has tradeoffs. I think we'd be foolish not to consider those tradeoffs, especially given recent tournament performance.

 

[lovelyblonde]

Exactly! Purdue is a FF contender for one reason. Zach Edey. To get it done he's going to need a strong supporting cast, but if you listen to Painter's interview from this weekend its clear. The guys who are going to play are the guys that can compliment Edey's game. Hard stop.

Zach will get the same 32 minutes per game he got last year, which means either Gillis, Furst or TKR will see limited minutes. Last year TKR pretty much only played the 5 so he was limited to around 10 minutes per game while Furst and Gillis played close to 20. The question is going to be how do these minutes shift, if at all.

Same thing in the backcourt. Smith and Loyer are probably locked in for around 30 minutes like last year. That leaves 60 minutes for 5 guys. Colvin, Heide, Jones, Morton and Waddell. I'm guessing Jones is a lock for around 15 just because we don't have another guard to handle the point (like Jenkins last year). That leaves 45 minutes for the remaining 4 guys. My guess is two of those guys will average 20 minutes (like Morton and Newman last year) and the other two will see limited minutes throughout the year (like Waddell did last year).

I don't know if I missed any of your posts this past weekend, but did you go to the scrimmage? Jones could easily split minutes with Smith. As high as I am and have been on SMith, Jones is really good too.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I don't know if I missed any of your posts this past weekend, but did you go to the scrimmage? Jones could easily split minutes with Smith. As high as I am and have been on SMith, Jones is really good too.

Jones is a great complement to Braden. In the brief time that the scrimmage lasted, his shot looked good and he was super quick and strong. May not be as a dynamic of a playmaker as Braden, but he seems very solid at the 1. I would hope he can help reduce smiths minutes from 30 down to maybe 22-25 a game and Jones could play anywhere from 15-20 mins at the 1,2 or maybe even 3 (only in certain games for defensive purposes and/or if we go to a very small ball lineup). That way, Braden isn’t gassed all the time at the end of games like he was last year.

 

[lovelyblonde]

Jones is a great complement to Braden. In the brief time that the scrimmage lasted, his shot looked good and he was super quick and strong. May not be as a dynamic of a playmaker as Braden, but he seems very solid at the 1. I would hope he can help reduce smiths minutes from 30 down to maybe 22-25 a game and Jones could play anywhere from 15-20 mins at the 1,2 or maybe even 3 (only in certain games for defensive purposes and/or if we go to a very small ball lineup). That way, Braden isn’t gassed all the time at the end of games like he was last year.

Those two were really going at each other. I am so happy to see how talented both are!

 

[Wolegib]

I have a question about Loyer and smith. Many have said they were gassed at the end of the year because of the minutes they played. I’m not sure if it was the amount of minutes or the level of competition and the schedule.

Will reducing their minutes to around 25 minutes eliminate their being gassed at the end of the season? I’m not so sure. Maybe a year of experience and team chemistry and knowledge of their opponents and Painter’s system is all they really need .

Edey played over 30 minutes a game and he didn’t look gassed. A lot of players play 30 minutes a game and are just as energetic the last game as they are the first game.

I follow track. And it’s a totally different sport as far as conditioning goes. Track athletes condition themselves to be at their peak at the end of the season. Their entire season is focused on building their strength for their conference and ncaa tournament!

For some reason it sure doesn’t appear that Purdue basketball players condition themselves in the same manner. I would think they do. That’s why I ask.

Do we peek too soon and run out of gas? Or is the competition that much better at the end of the year and that’s why we don’t fair as well?

What would we be like if we started our conference season at the beginning of the year when we supposedly have all of our energy? Would we succeed? Or would we lose to the tougher competition?

 

[SCBoiler1]

Jones is a great complement to Braden. In the brief time that the scrimmage lasted, his shot looked good and he was super quick and strong. May not be as a dynamic of a playmaker as Braden, but he seems very solid at the 1. I would hope he can help reduce smiths minutes from 30 down to maybe 22-25 a game and Jones could play anywhere from 15-20 mins at the 1,2 or maybe even 3 (only in certain games for defensive purposes and/or if we go to a very small ball lineup). That way, Braden isn’t gassed all the time at the end of games like he was last year.

Go back and look. Painter always plays his top guards around 30 minutes. In fact over the last 10 years we've had at least 1 guard average around 30 minutes and most years there are two guards that are above 27 or 28. CE averaged 35 and Cline 34 min in 2018-2019.

Over the last 10 years all of these guys have averaged over 30 minutes per game during a season for Purdue:
Smith
Hunter
CE
Cline
VE
Dakota
Biggie
Edey
Ivey
Stafonovich
Ray Davis
Terone Johnson

Probably twice as many have played between 25-30. Heck, PJ nearly averaged 30 minutes a game a couple of years (28 and 29).

 

[Do Dah Day]

Do you want to win big or just have every player play the same minutes?....tkr, furst, Gillis, Morton, Waddell etc knew the competition for minutes this year but all decided to stay....they want to be part of a historic Purdue team....they know it and I'm sure are thrilled to have Zach back....he's the best player since big dog and the main reason why we have a chance for greatness....I don't get why people gripe about final fours yet when we have a superstar on our team we wish we didn't....I'll never take Zach for granted...winning has to be enough this year...

THIS!!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

It's not just that -- it's also the fact that, as good as Zach is, I think it's fair to wonder if, at times, does playing through Zach all the time make Purdue a bit TOO traditional and one-dimensional...which ultimately hurt them in the NCAA tournament.

I can easily agree, but the other players are clearly different in skill this year.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Go back and look. Painter always plays his top guards around 30 minutes. In fact over the last 10 years we've had at least 1 guard average around 30 minutes and most years there are two guards that are above 27 or 28. CE averaged 35 and Cline 34 min in 2018-2019.

Over the last 10 years all of these guys have averaged over 30 minutes per game during a season for Purdue:
Smith
Hunter
CE
Cline
VE
Dakota
Biggie
Edey
Ivey
Stafonovich
Ray Davis
Terone Johnson

Probably twice as many have played between 25-30. Heck, PJ nearly averaged 30 minutes a game a couple of years (28 and 29).

The difference in end-of-season performance is based on the age of the player. Smith was gassed because he was a freshman. The length of the floor is a huge thing for freshmen. They play as hard as they did in HS, but the extra 10' every single time down the floor is a LOT!!! - Then there are the extra 10 or more games .... It is a LOT to handle your first year.

 

[tjreese]

was Gillis wearing a mask? precautionary ?

yeah and missed a shot and threw it down on the court in disgust. Picked it up and put it on ...

 

[Mandeville LA]

The difference in end-of-season performance is based on the age of the player. Smith was gassed because he was a freshman. The length of the floor is a huge thing for freshmen. They play as hard as they did in HS, but the extra 10' every single time down the floor is a LOT!!! - Then there are the extra 10 or more games .... It is a LOT to handle your first year.

And play they way they do. Easy to explain

 

[tjreese]

The difference in end-of-season performance is based on the age of the player. Smith was gassed because he was a freshman. The length of the floor is a huge thing for freshmen. They play as hard as they did in HS, but the extra 10' every single time down the floor is a LOT!!! - Then there are the extra 10 or more games .... It is a LOT to handle your first year.

I don't think people understand the physical play by players, length of court and intensity for longer durations...let alone this twice a week AND 40 minutes instead of 32. Lots of reasons why freshmen get tired

 

[tjreese]

I don't know if I missed any of your posts this past weekend, but did you go to the scrimmage? Jones could easily split minutes with Smith. As high as I am and have been on SMith, Jones is really good too.

Lance's play IMO was a surprise in that he made a couple of really nice passes and I didn't know what kind of vision and court savvy he had, but he made a couple of really nice passes for good looks. He did a good job penetrating although one time he got the ball in front of him due to some traffic on his side and kind of fumbled it for a moment. When he was set he made two nice 3 pointers I believe. The only negative, and it could just be his first time trying to make an impression in that he took a couple of shots that were not good shots. Overall, I can see him helping against pressure and sharing time with Braden. I have no idea what kind of a FT shooter he is, but nobody was very good Saturday. Saturday performance indicated he is going to help Purdue on D, penetration and kick outs there as well as shooting when having a good look. It was but one game and sometimes you don't get the most accurate description of a team or players with one viewing...

 

[Thadoc1]

It's not just that -- it's also the fact that, as good as Zach is, I think it's fair to wonder if, at times, does playing through Zach all the time make Purdue a bit TOO traditional and one-dimensional...which ultimately hurt them in the NCAA tournament.

If you think our team would be better without Zach then you are crazy....I loved what I saw from both tkr and furst....they both have gotten quicker and stronger...but furst still can't shoot...tkr is still a center trapped in a forwards body...edey is the most dominant college player in a decade and might be the best player Purdue has ever had...he's unstoppable on the block, can get almost any rebound, has incredible mobility for a 7'4 guy, a great shot blocker...there's no comparison between edey and tkr/furst...I think it will be awesome this year to have furst/tkr as backups to edey....that's the best frontcourt in the country...but you scheme your team around an unstoppable force...I love the rest of our team but they are not nearly as effective without edey out there...smith and loyer work so well with edey and I'm sure jones will too from clips that I've seen...Gillis, heide, Colvin, Waddell can all shoot so we've got options there at forward....and it's not like edey camps in the lane all the time...he sets effective screens and attracts so much attention when he rolls to the bucket....we will get open shots, we will have more capable shooters, and we will have more guys that can get in the lane....edey does not make us one dimensional...we finally have guys that complement him a lot better...

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

yeah and missed a shot and threw it down on the court in disgust. Picked it up and put it on ...

He actually dribbled off his foot and lost control and turned it over.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Go back and look. Painter always plays his top guards around 30 minutes. In fact over the last 10 years we've had at least 1 guard average around 30 minutes and most years there are two guards that are above 27 or 28. CE averaged 35 and Cline 34 min in 2018-2019.

Over the last 10 years all of these guys have averaged over 30 minutes per game during a season for Purdue:
Smith
Hunter
CE
Cline
VE
Dakota
Biggie
Edey
Ivey
Stafonovich
Ray Davis
Terone Johnson

Probably twice as many have played between 25-30. Heck, PJ nearly averaged 30 minutes a game a couple of years (28 and 29).

Ok but none were freshman getting 30 mins a game. So they had adjusted to grind of the season. DJJ should have played more mins, but that’s all hindsight now. I think we have the depth to not have to play Braden 30 mins when it’s not needed. Besides the grind of the season, he was gassed too because he was trying to take on the press all by himself, trying to dribble through everyone. Hope we can have that figured out this year.

 

[tjreese]

Ok but none were freshman getting 30 mins a game. So they had adjusted to grind of the season. DJJ should have played more mins, but that’s all hindsight now. I think we have the depth to not have to play Braden 30 mins when it’s not needed. Besides the grind of the season, he was gassed too because he was trying to take on the press all by himself, trying to dribble through everyone. Hope we can have that figured out this year.

Needed more out of the 3&4 against the zone presses

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Needed more out of the 3&4 against the zone presses

For sure. It seemed at times it was only Braden back there and no one else…and then he got in a habit of running to the corners…which obviously is a no no and at his height, definitely doesn’t put him in a favorable spot. Hope he gets more help/we finally figure out a press.

 

[northside100]

A question about players a minutes. In past seasons younger players receive a lot more minutes early in the season. And then see their minutes diminished and replaced by older, more experienced players. They don’t seem like they are given the opportunity for in season progression. I’m not saying that is bad or good. I’m just curious who was the last first year player that actually saw his minutes increase as the season progressed? And what first year player that wasn’t a starter ended up replacing a more experienced player as the season progressed? If miles and Heidi don’t start on day one, Do they have a realistic chance of beating out the player who is starting as the season progresses? If Gillis and Morton start on day 1 will they lose their starting roles as the season progresses? Maybe this is why we always start out of the gate looking awesome and fail down the stretch. As mediocre experienced players receive more playing time over the younger players who make mistakes. But not given an opportunity to build on those mistakes!

Trevion for sure. Jaden, although part of that was because he was injured early in the year. Carsen saw his minutes increase since freshman year went on. He was in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season, came off the bench for a while, and then started the end of the season.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Ok but none were freshman getting 30 mins a game. So they had adjusted to grind of the season. DJJ should have played more mins, but that’s all hindsight now. I think we have the depth to not have to play Braden 30 mins when it’s not needed. Besides the grind of the season, he was gassed too because he was trying to take on the press all by himself, trying to dribble through everyone. Hope we can have that figured out this year.

But he won't be a freshmen next year. He's 20 years old.

Jayden Ivey was 20 years old when the NBA started last year. He averaged 31 minutes over 74 games. He played 12 back to backs and averaged 33 minutes in those games. In April (last 5 games) he averaged 37 minutes and played over 42 in two of them.

I'd be shocked if a guy Smith's athleticism and talent can't play close to 30 minutes twice a week.

Now if a third team MVC guard is nearly as good as him, that's a different story. I won't believe it until I see it. I truly believe Smith is Purdue's best point guard in the last 20 + years. Jones had more turnovers than assists at Southern Illinois over 119 games and after 1 scrimmage we've determined he's going to be taking minutes from Smith? I'm not buying it.