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Trump being tough on Putin

Yes, we get it, he talks about himself a lot. But where is any of that incorrect?
? The bold part. NATO wasn't going anywhere, ever. Tell me how he saved it. And don't give me this crap about forcing the members to pay more. That didn't save it. The only way he saved it was not going into his instincts and withdrawing from it.

And btw, all this talking about the euros paying more. There is an agreement in place, since before trump, that all members agreed to getting to 2% by '24. Trump got some money sooner........and gave Putin what he wanted in the process. Chaos in NATO.
 
? The bold part. NATO wasn't going anywhere, ever. Tell me how he saved it. And don't give me this crap about forcing the members to pay more. That didn't save it. The only way he saved it was not going into his instincts and withdrawing from it.

And btw, all this talking about the euros paying more. There is an agreement in place, since before trump, that all members agreed to getting to 2% by '24. Trump got some money sooner........and gave Putin what he wanted in the process. Chaos in NATO.
I don't think he meant to say he saved it as in it was going away. He saved it in the sense that it's not just the US doing their part. That's what he meant. Which, how can we actually say there is a NATO when only one country is doing their part?
 
I think it's amazing that people can look at who Trump was as a person and cannot in any way separate and recognize how good he was as a president. Yes he's an ass/dick, whatever you want to call him. But the country was humming under Trump. He did so many good things and the fact that you don't recognize that is perfect proof of TDS.
Yeah, with a republican congress he cut taxes for corps and wealthy and blew up the debt. Keeps the idiots that care only about the here and now happy.
He also completely ignored every norm, procedure, and policy that would keep him from doing whatever the hell he wanted. He thought he didn't have to answer to anybody. He SAID "I have the right to do anything I want." That is a clear and present threat to our democracy. But that's down the road, the idiots don't care about it.

The terrible, selfish human being just happens to make great decisions. In what world? He gave you what you wanted. Tax cuts, a wall, tough talk and name calling. Congrats.
 
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I don't think he meant to say he saved it as in it was going away. He saved it in the sense that it's not just the US doing their part. That's what he meant. Which, how can we actually say there is a NATO when only one country is doing their part?
Doesn't matter what you THINK he meant. What he actually said is what matters..
and that's pretty clear.

Actually 10 countries are doing their part.
 
Yeah, with a republican congress he cut taxes for corps and wealthy and blew up the debt. Keeps the idiots that care only about the here and now happy.
He also completely ignored every norm, procedure, and policy that would keep him from doing whatever the hell he wanted. He thought he didn't have to answer to anybody. He SAID "I have the right to do anything I want." That is a clear and present threat to our democracy. But that's down the road, the idiots don't care about it.

The terrible, selfish human being just happens to make great decisions. In what world? He gave you what you wanted. Tax cuts, a wall, tough talk and name calling. Congrats.
Bullshit. The tax cuts for the corporations BS is a lie. Tax cuts by percentage was bigger for the middle class. Of course the rich gets more money back even though their tax cut percentage is less than everyone else, but that's what happens when you're working with a larger pool of money. Democrats do this lie all the time.

Ignored every norm, procedure and policy? Examples please.

Last paragraph is exactly my point. TDS. You have no clue what all Trump did well because you refuse to take the time and look. You can't see anything there other than what you see in his personality. You couldn't be more wrong on this point.
 
? The bold part. NATO wasn't going anywhere, ever. Tell me how he saved it. And don't give me this crap about forcing the members to pay more. That didn't save it. The only way he saved it was not going into his instincts and withdrawing from it.

And btw, all this talking about the euros paying more. There is an agreement in place, since before trump, that all members agreed to getting to 2% by '24. Trump got some money sooner........and gave Putin what he wanted in the process. Chaos in NATO.
Who was going to hold NATO accountable for everyone getting to 2% of GDP? Biden?

Trump was basically saying "Hey, the USA doesn't need NATO, NATO needs the USA, period. We're sick of all you freeloaders expecting the USA to pony up while you all don't. Either pay up, or the US will exit NATO"

You don't think that got some peoples attention. Had Biden given a similar ultimatum, those other NATO countries would have just laughed and continued not paying.
 
Yeah, with a republican congress he cut taxes for corps and wealthy and blew up the debt. Keeps the idiots that care only about the here and now happy.
He also completely ignored every norm, procedure, and policy that would keep him from doing whatever the hell he wanted. He thought he didn't have to answer to anybody. He SAID "I have the right to do anything I want." That is a clear and present threat to our democracy. But that's down the road, the idiots don't care about it.

The terrible, selfish human being just happens to make great decisions. In what world? He gave you what you wanted. Tax cuts, a wall, tough talk and name calling. Congrats.
Show us a picture of the check you wrote to the IRS giving back your tax cuts because you thought they were bad. Until then, STFU.
 
Yeah, with a republican congress he cut taxes for corps and wealthy and blew up the debt. Keeps the idiots that care only about the here and now happy.
He also completely ignored every norm, procedure, and policy that would keep him from doing whatever the hell he wanted. He thought he didn't have to answer to anybody. He SAID "I have the right to do anything I want." That is a clear and present threat to our democracy. But that's down the road, the idiots don't care about it.

The terrible, selfish human being just happens to make great decisions. In what world? He gave you what you wanted. Tax cuts, a wall, tough talk and name calling. Congrats.
“Threat to our democracy” makes you sound like a hysterical lefty journalist on Twitter. Grow up.
 
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Why? They have no voice in my party. Hell I'm not even Republican. I've said that before. Crazies are on both sides. The difference is that the crazies on the left actually have some pull. The right crazies don't.

Great, if you say you are not Republican, and Bob said he is not Dems, then there is no need for tribalism.

Then just call out the crazies on both sides. Make it clear that you don't support the crazies. Coz one of the problem is that people on the left think everyone on the right is crazy, and vice versa. So if you can actually stand up and condemn the crazies, like those politicians who support Putin or trying to whitewash Putin (right or left), then it helps bring people together. This way, we can stop defining ourselves with liberals/conservatives, but on what makes sense.
 
? The bold part. NATO wasn't going anywhere, ever. Tell me how he saved it. And don't give me this crap about forcing the members to pay more. That didn't save it. The only way he saved it was not going into his instincts and withdrawing from it.

And btw, all this talking about the euros paying more. There is an agreement in place, since before trump, that all members agreed to getting to 2% by '24. Trump got some money sooner........and gave Putin what he wanted in the process. Chaos in NATO.
And what did he give Putin? Facts Bob. Facts.
 
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We've done that, but he refuses to believe that what he's regurgitating is factually inaccurate BECAUSE he saw it on the MSM. That's the problem...

That's an interesting point. I've said before, for democracy to function, we need a shared reality. And that sounds like the real problem here.

So how do you suggest we go about creating that shared reality? Just because it is on MSM then it cannot be factually accurate? If not, how do *YOU* determine that your version of reality is the real version, and that whatever MSM says has to be false?
 
Great, if you say you are not Republican, and Bob said he is not Dems, then there is no need for tribalism.

Then just call out the crazies on both sides. Make it clear that you don't support the crazies. Coz one of the problem is that people on the left think everyone on the right is crazy, and vice versa. So if you can actually stand up and condemn the crazies, like those politicians who support Putin or trying to whitewash Putin (right or left), then it helps bring people together. This way, we can stop defining ourselves with liberals/conservatives, but on what makes sense.
If you’ve followed Bobs posts, he is lying. Bob would make a great politician.
 
Great, if you say you are not Republican, and Bob said he is not Dems, then there is no need for tribalism.

Then just call out the crazies on both sides. Make it clear that you don't support the crazies. Coz one of the problem is that people on the left think everyone on the right is crazy, and vice versa. So if you can actually stand up and condemn the crazies, like those politicians who support Putin or trying to whitewash Putin (right or left), then it helps bring people together. This way, we can stop defining ourselves with liberals/conservatives, but on what makes sense.
I don't think everyone on the left is crazy. But crazies do have a voice on the left and that's the problem.
 
That's an interesting point. I've said before, for democracy to function, we need a shared reality. And that sounds like the real problem here.

So how do you suggest we go about creating that shared reality? Just because it is on MSM then it cannot be factually accurate? If not, how do *YOU* determine that your version of reality is the real version, and that whatever MSM says has to be false?
No, I never said that things can't be factually accurate if it's on MSM. BUT it's ignorant to believe that EVERYTHING on MSM is factually accurate.
 
But Bob, it’s just easier to say you have TDS vs a discussion because it requires zero thinking.

Maybe folks will stop talking about Trump when Trump is no longer a factor of any kind. When he’s not the featured speaker at CPAC and wins the straw poll to be the party nominee. Or when other elected Republicans don’t appear at the same event with him. Or when elected Republican officials stop claiming Trump won the election. Or when Republicans running for office don’t use Trump as part of their campaign strategy.

Maybe Tucker will disappear when he stops going on his show every night and siding with Putin. Or stops going on and spreading blatant lies about a global pandemic and vaccines.

Saying someone has TDS or tries to chastise others about talking about Tucker etc is so lazy. It’s also projection of the highest order. Don’t talk about Tucker although I’ll talk about Maddow until I wear the M out on my keyboard.

The righties on here get so twisted about Biden but fail to realize they’re the reason he’s president. They’re the folks who voted for Trump and Trump is why we have Biden. The thing is, Hillary was right about so many things. Yet she wasn’t elected because she wasn’t likable. I get that, as shortsighted as that is, especially looking back. But the folks who hated Hillary now don’t understand Trump was viewed the exact same way this past election and was a main reason he lost. Some amazingly lazy mental gymnastics by these folks.
What’s ironic is this is going full circle. Trump was his best asset and worst enemy and he should have won re-election if he showed some humility. But he blew it. Now Biden’s poor performance will reopen the door for Trump or another Republican. I hope Pence will be the Republican but I’m probably dreaming
 
What’s ironic is this is going full circle. Trump was his best asset and worst enemy and he should have won re-election if he showed some humility. But he blew it. Now Biden’s poor performance will reopen the door for Trump or another Republican. I hope Pence will be the Republican but I’m probably dreaming
Pence. Really? Half the Republican Party is mad that he didn’t do trump’s bidding and not certify the election. The best thing Pence could do is never look back but he’s going to try to come back as some holy rolling Bible thumping Christian. He will be eaten alive by his own party.
 
Pence. Really? Half the Republican Party is mad that he didn’t do trump’s bidding and not certify the election. The best thing Pence could do is never look back but he’s going to try to come back as some holy rolling Bible thumping Christian. He will be eaten alive by his own party.
I know what you are saying but my ideal candidate would be someone with Trump’s policies with Pence’s temperament. Guess I’m looking for the next Reagan
 
I know what you are saying but my ideal candidate would be someone with Trump’s policies with Pence’s temperament. Guess I’m looking for the next Reagan
That makes sense. Just don’t know who that is in the Republican Party anymore. Maybe Mitt. Slim pickings.
 
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That makes sense. Just don’t know who that is in the Republican Party anymore. Maybe Mitt. Slim pickings.
Our country needs another Reagan but don’t know who that would be. IMO Mitt isn’t it but he has gained more credibility after the Russian invasion. I remember Obama made fun of Mitt during the debate when he warned of the Russian threat
 
Our country needs another Reagan but don’t know who that would be. IMO Mitt isn’t it but he has gained more credibility after the Russian invasion. I remember Obama made fun of Mitt during the debate when he warned of the Russian threat
Not sure we will ever see another Reagan. There are so many extremists…on both sides of the aisle…that I’m not sure a true moderate would have a chance.
 
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Wait, wait....is Trump also a racist?
Who's bringing up racism now?
It's your favorite topic.....but it's always the other guys. I didn't say a word about trump being a racist.

The people at that conference paid money to listen to a anti semetic white nationalist. That is a fact. Call it what you want, spin it however you want. But for gods sake don't condemn them.
 
Show us a picture of the check you wrote to the IRS giving back your tax cuts because you thought they were bad. Until then, STFU.
Did I say tax cuts for the middle class were bad ?

You should stop going to restaurants........or eating vegetables......or buying clothes...... because it's highly likely an illegal made the food or picked the fruit or sewed the clothes. Do you check the immigration status of those who has something to do with the service or products you buy? That's your logic. Answer the question.
 
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I don't think everyone on the left is crazy. But crazies do have a voice on the left and that's the problem.

Fine, then call out the crazies on the left when you see it. In the mean time, also call out the crazies on the right. And when people like Bob calling out crazies on the right, stop acting defensive, or ridicule him simply because the MSM is also calling out those crazies.

What I am observing is that people here would automatically attack Bob without even considering whether his words have merit. Bob is automatically discredited because of a bunch of excuses (he only regurgitates MSM, as if MSM means it must be false). Well, if people keep labeling the liberals TDS b/c they are against everything Trump says, the irony is that they are basically doing exactly the same thing to Bob. So shall we call this BDS?
 
No, I never said that things can't be factually accurate if it's on MSM.

I know you didn't say that. I never accused you on that. But if you just go back up, when I asked people about Bob, people were ridiculing that all Bob did was to regurgitate MSM. The implication, at least for those people, is that everything MSM says must be wrong.

BUT it's ignorant to believe that EVERYTHING on MSM is factually accurate.

True, we can't believe in everything that MSM says. So that gets back to my original question: for democracy to function, we need a shared reality. How do you propose to build that shared reality? Especially when you and so many are skeptical of MSM. How do you know YOUR version of reality is the correct one over the one that is reported by MSM? And why are you so confident that YOUR version is the correct one over the one from MSM?
 
Our country needs another Reagan but don’t know who that would be. IMO Mitt isn’t it but he has gained more credibility after the Russian invasion. I remember Obama made fun of Mitt during the debate when he warned of the Russian threat

Obama did make fun of Mitt, but I think if one is wrong on the timing, he's also wrong. Alan Greenspan warned about irrational exuberance. The market later crashed. But that was 1996, and you would have missed out on the greatest bull market if you listened to Greenspan in 1996.

IIRC, the question was who is the GREATEST THREAT RIGHT NOW. Not 10 years later. If you are too early or too late, it is still wrong.
 
Did I say tax cuts for the middle class were bad ?

You should stop going to restaurants........or eating vegetables......or buying clothes...... because it's highly likely an illegal made the food or picked the fruit or sewed the clothes. Do you check the immigration status of those who has something to do with the service or product you buy? That's your logic. Answer the question.
Like most conservatives, I’m not against immigration, I’m against illegal immigration.

Democrats problem with immigration is that don’t see it as a humanitarian gesture, they see it as a potential voting block.
 
I know what you are saying but my ideal candidate would be someone with Trump’s policies with Pence’s temperament. Guess I’m looking for the next Reagan

That's what I am saying, the real change that could really help is to change the voting system from "One Person One Vote" to "One Candidate One Vote." This way, each voter can give a pass/no pass to each candidate, and typically, the extremists won't do well in this kind of election. The candidate who has the temperament to get the most common denominator (those in the middle) will win.
 
Like most conservatives, I’m not against immigration, I’m against illegal immigration.

Democrats problem with immigration is that don’t see it as a humanitarian gesture, they see it as a potential voting block.
I’m a Democrat who’s also against illegal immigration, and since illegals aren’t allowed to vote anyway, your entire post is nothing but bullshit. I would ask you to try again, but it will just be more made up nonsense, so no need to bother.
 
I’m a Democrat who’s also against illegal immigration, and since illegals aren’t allowed to vote anyway, your entire post is nothing but bullshit. I would ask you to try again, but it will just be more made up nonsense, so no need to bother.
That’s got to be as bad as anything (Democrat) to be referred to or called today. Call me names, but don’t call me a Democrat. Those are fighting words. Lol
 
Who was going to hold NATO accountable for everyone getting to 2% of GDP? Biden?

Trump was basically saying "Hey, the USA doesn't need NATO, NATO needs the USA, period. We're sick of all you freeloaders expecting the USA to pony up while you all don't. Either pay up, or the US will exit NATO"

You don't think that got some peoples attention. Had Biden given a similar ultimatum, those other NATO countries would have just laughed and continued not paying.

It is true that Germany and France has only been spending about 1.2% to 1.8% of their GDP on defense. US was about 3.5%.

But there are several caveats. First, US's military spending is all over the world, including a large chunk in Asia. Meanwhile, NATO is mostly about Europe. Germany and France cared first and foremost about Europe, and wouldn't be spending money in Asia. So it is not necessarily fair to expect they'll spend equal percentage in military spending.

The other thing is with power comes responsibility. A QB gets all the glory when a team wins because he'll gets all the blame when a team loses. A QB is the highest paid guy on the team, but it is also the most cutthroat position in all of football. Imagine a QB b!tching about him taking the most responsibility. He'll lose the respect of his teammates immediately. US did spend the most, and they also get the biggest say. Every other country has to follow US's lead, not the other way round. That's where the extra money spent in defense gets us.

Lastly, it isn't like US is spending the money on defense because of NATO. It is really to protect our other interests. So it isn't quite accurate to say other NATO countries are freeloader. They just don't have as many interests to protect. This world is a much different place than 1949 when NATO was created. For most of the countries in the world, the need for military has greatly reduced since then.
 
Like most conservatives, I’m not against immigration, I’m against illegal immigration.

Democrats problem with immigration is that don’t see it as a humanitarian gesture, they see it as a potential voting block.
Like trump has made clear, most conservatives only want educated, middle class or above immigrants here......except Muslims. None of them please.

So.......silence on the fruits and vegetables?
 
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It is true that Germany and France has only been spending about 1.2% to 1.8% of their GDP on defense. US was about 3.5%.

But there are several caveats. First, US's military spending is all over the world, including a large chunk in Asia. Meanwhile, NATO is mostly about Europe. Germany and France cared first and foremost about Europe, and wouldn't be spending money in Asia. So it is not necessarily fair to expect they'll spend equal percentage in military spending.

The other thing is with power comes responsibility. A QB gets all the glory when a team wins because he'll gets all the blame when a team loses. A QB is the highest paid guy on the team, but it is also the most cutthroat position in all of football. Imagine a QB b!tching about him taking the most responsibility. He'll lose the respect of his teammates immediately. US did spend the most, and they also get the biggest say. Every other country has to follow US's lead, not the other way round. That's where the extra money spent in defense gets us.

Lastly, it isn't like US is spending the money on defense because of NATO. It is really to protect our other interests. So it isn't quite accurate to say other NATO countries are freeloader. They just don't have as many interests to protect. This world is a much different place than 1949 when NATO was created. For most of the countries in the world, the need for military has greatly reduced since then.

Every other country needs the USA, not the other way around. We are the most powerful country, economically and militarily, so, we get to call the shots. That's what Trump did.
He basically said "these are the rules. If you don't want to play by the rules, then we won't either".
That got their attention
 
Like trump has made clear, most conservatives only want educated, middle class or above immigrants here......except Muslims. None of them please.

So.......silence on the fruits and vegetables?
well, Muslims were proving to be a threat at the time, so Trump was smart to scrutinize immigrants trying to enter from Muslim countries.

As for who picks my fruits and veg or who does my yard work, if I knew they were illegals, I wouldn't hire them or buy from that store.
 
Every other country needs the USA, not the other way around. We are the most powerful country, economically and militarily, so, we get to call the shots. That's what Trump did.
He basically said "these are the rules. If you don't want to play by the rules, then we won't either".
That got their attention
This is going to blow your mind, so I hope you’re sitting down for this one, bone. But it was also like this BEFORE January of 2017 as well. I know that little tidbit of information will disintegrate the last few functioning synapses in your brain, but the 200+ years before your false god came to be would like a word.
 
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