Question to ponder about recruiting in the NIL era......

[typeviic]

With Purdue basketball being the flagship power-5 outlier that holds out and does it the old-fashioned way by recruiting/developing players, does it widen the recruiting landscape for high school seniors that still want to play and look for a traditional-built team? The comradery and team chemistry that they are used to in high school.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

This is an interesting question. Saw an analyst mention something similar and wondering of burnout of collectives and donors. What happens when a collective looks back in 2-3 years and asks why they spent 200-500k on a kid who put up 6pts and 3 rebounds a game. What happens when the same folks ask why they shelled out $1M or more for a roster to either miss the tourney or not make it out of the first weekend.

Personally, I think a lot of high school kids outside the top 50, will end up at places who don’t live and die with the portal. The recruitment of those kids in the 50-200 range will be more open because coaches are using NIL + portal as free agency. They see higher upside to quickly build a roster and potentially win with experienced players v player development.

Another thought for mid majors who experience high roster churn because of NIL + portal, why not become the Kentucky of the mid majors? Why not position yourself for great skill development and showcase the schools your kids left to go to? I mean Kentucky and Duke are the 5* one and dons factory. Why not be the 1-3 year development school to get a major NIL deal? Honestly, if I am a mid major, I am recruiting and signing 5-7 kids a year because I know my roster is going to get gutted.

I think this stuff levels off in another year when COVID kids are all done. They have added a weird element to the mix which is almost done. Perhaps we see some leveling off in the coming year.

 

[Boiler Buck]

This is an interesting question. Saw an analyst mention something similar and wondering of burnout of collectives and donors. What happens when a collective looks back in 2-3 years and asks why they spent 200-500k on a kid who put up 6pts and 3 rebounds a game. What happens when the same folks ask why they shelled out $1M or more for a roster to either miss the tourney or not make it out of the first weekend.

Personally, I think a lot of high school kids outside the top 50, will end up at places who don’t live and die with the portal. The recruitment of those kids in the 50-200 range will be more open because coaches are using NIL + portal as free agency. They see higher upside to quickly build a roster and potentially win with experienced players v player development.

Another thought for mid majors who experience high roster churn because of NIL + portal, why not become the Kentucky of the mid majors? Why not position yourself for great skill development and showcase the schools your kids left to go to? I mean Kentucky and Duke are the 5* one and dons factory. Why not be the 1-3 year development school to get a major NIL deal? Honestly, if I am a mid major, I am recruiting and signing 5-7 kids a year because I know my roster is going to get gutted.

I think this stuff levels off in another year when COVID kids are all done. They have added a weird element to the mix which is almost done. Perhaps we see some leveling off in the coming year.

Possibly. That might happen. Hope it does.

Besides Purdue emerging as a FF banner chaser, one might say it is the availability of these quality COVID players that have saved Purdue from being more of a target from high $ poachers.

Sure we are told Purdue has a high quality atmosphere for keeping players, and I think that is true. But the time is coming where Purdue loses a valuable guy due to the money involved. It's inevitable. And I hate it. Hopefully, donor fatigue sets in, and the abilities of poachers level off.

 

[SqueakyClean]

NIL is not nearly as big of an issue with recruiting as it is with transfers. I still say that alot of the current trend goes away if they reinstitute the 1 year sit-out rule with transfers. That will keep alot more players at their current school and not chasing the money.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

NIL is not nearly as big of an issue with recruiting as it is with transfers. I still say that alot of the current trend goes away if they reinstitute the 1 year sit-out rule with transfers. That will keep alot more players at their current school and not chasing the money.

Sit out rule is dead and will never come back. The NCAA just cleared the way on this by allowing unlimited transfers.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

With Purdue basketball being the flagship power-5 outlier that holds out and does it the old-fashioned way by recruiting/developing players, does it widen the recruiting landscape for high school seniors that still want to play and look for a traditional-built team? The comradery and team chemistry that they are used to in high school.

Yes.

For example: There are rumors that Sisley, despite growing up an IU fan, might actually be leaning towards Purdue, partially because he knows and likes the kids he’ll be playing with.

 

[PUQBMan.]

With Purdue basketball being the flagship power-5 outlier that holds out and does it the old-fashioned way by recruiting/developing players, does it widen the recruiting landscape for high school seniors that still want to play and look for a traditional-built team? The comradery and team chemistry that they are used to in high school.

Not only this, but something could also be said about the security in knowing that you aren’t going to be actively recruited over via the transfer portal every year. It has to be tough for a guy like Galloway who has been loyal to iu through some tough times and now sees them aggressively going after guards in the portal to take his starting spot.

 

[bonefish1]

Possibly. That might happen. Hope it does.

Besides Purdue emerging as a FF banner chaser, one might say it is the availability of these quality COVID players that have saved Purdue from being more of a target from high $ poachers.

Sure we are told Purdue has a high quality atmosphere for keeping players, and I think that is true. But the time is coming where Purdue loses a valuable guy due to the money involved. It's inevitable. And I hate it. Hopefully, donor fatigue sets in, and the abilities of poachers level off.

Happened to the Boilers in football this year.
I think if a guy is that valuable and proven, you have to play him. It is what it is now. And no one on here can say "well...if he's just in it for the money, then we don't want him anyway". Money talks.

 

[qazplm]

Happened to the Boilers in football this year.
I think if a guy is that valuable and proven, you have to play him. It is what it is now. And no one on here can say "well...if he's just in it for the money, then we don't want him anyway". Money talks.

Money is also necessary. I just don't understand the folks lamenting kids getting a slice of the action as if that's some moral failing.

It isn't. If a kid wants to transfer every year for NIL so what? What's the actual moral issue there other than it affecting some people's enjoyment?

 

[typeviic]

Money is also necessary. I just don't understand the folks lamenting kids getting a slice of the action as if that's some moral failing.

It isn't. If a kid wants to transfer every year for NIL so what? What's the actual moral issue there other than it affecting some people's enjoyment?

Its not that, at least for me anyway.

Not only this, but something could also be said about the security in knowing that you aren’t going to be actively recruited over via the transfer portal every year. It has to be tough for a guy like Galloway who has been loyal to iu through some tough times and now sees them aggressively going after guards in the portal to take his starting spot.

Excellent point. A "new and improved" way of 'Creaning' your players.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Money is also necessary. I just don't understand the folks lamenting kids getting a slice of the action as if that's some moral failing.

It isn't. If a kid wants to transfer every year for NIL so what? What's the actual moral issue there other than it affecting some people's enjoyment?

My opinion on the moral issue which comes in 5-10 years when your playing career is over. It isn’t immediately felt.

You effectively have a piecemeal degree and limited network back to a specific university. I know I’ve leveraged the Purdue alumni network and have undergrads reach out to me for career advice, referrals etc. That initial outreach to the alumni base is easier when you have a common connection and bond. What if you are remembered as the kid who took a ton of NIL and left and burned that bridge? Think of the kid from Iowa who committed to Alabama who keeps flip flopping and going back and forth.

I don’t disagree that these kids should collect based on their success with a school and their abilities. The chance of going pro in basketball and football from college is really low. The universities and companies are making money off of you, so why not get a piece.

I remember watching the 30 for 30 Broke. Those guys made millions and have 0 to show for it. I doubt a lot of these kids making 100k+ are being as prudent and thinking about where they will be in 5-10 years.

I don’t think what we are seeing is what NIL was intended to be. Same goes for the portal. Those genies are out of the bottle and aren’t going back.

 

[qazplm]

My opinion on the moral issue which comes in 5-10 years when your playing career is over. It isn’t immediately felt.

You effectively have a piecemeal degree and limited network back to a specific university. I know I’ve leveraged the Purdue alumni network and have undergrads reach out to me for career advice, referrals etc. That initial outreach to the alumni base is easier when you have a common connection and bond. What if you are remembered as the kid who took a ton of NIL and left and burned that bridge? Think of the kid from Iowa who committed to Alabama who keeps flip flopping and going back and forth.

I don’t disagree that these kids should collect based on their success with a school and their abilities. The chance of going pro in basketball and football from college is really low. The universities and companies are making money off of you, so why not get a piece.

I remember watching the 30 for 30 Broke. Those guys made millions and have 0 to show for it. I doubt a lot of these kids making 100k+ are being as prudent and thinking about where they will be in 5-10 years.

I don’t think what we are seeing is what NIL was intended to be. Same goes for the portal. Those genies are out of the bottle and aren’t going back.

Many of these kids aren't going to school for the degree but for a chance to play professionally. The old system had PLENTY of these same kids with useless degrees or no degree at all and no money.

Now, they come out of it with no student loans, a degree of some sort usually AND some starter money.

I'm sure you had the experience of network building and that's great. I think you are wrong if you think that's the norm that college students everywhere have this network they can rely on 10 years later.

Whether they are prudent or not will depend on the individual. If they aren't, they weren't going to be any more prudent just because they spent four years in one place. If they are, no less prudent because they used the system for a headstart.

Piecemeal degrees can work just fine. Military folks do it routinely.

 

[boomfizzle79]

Happened to the Boilers in football this year.
I think if a guy is that valuable and proven, you have to play him. It is what it is now. And no one on here can say "well...if he's just in it for the money, then we don't want him anyway". Money talks.

I think the way NIL and transfer portal function long-term in football versus basketball is gonna be very different though. I think in basketball it's easier to make a team more than the sum of its parts than it is in football.

Obviously there are bball players who can do it by themselves, but football really requires great guys at the skill positions, and generally I think that's where you see the biggest bidding wars.

I think Painter will likely be able to continue doing it "his way" even if there are surprise transfers due to tampering and NIL. But if it does get bad enough, I think Painter would hang it up before really giving in to the new way

 

[qazplm]

I think the way NIL and transfer portal function long-term in football versus basketball is gonna be very different though. I think in basketball it's easier to make a team more than the sum of its parts than it is in football.

Obviously there are bball players who can do it by themselves, but football really requires great guys at the skill positions, and generally I think that's where you see the biggest bidding wars.

I think Painter will likely be able to continue doing it "his way" even if there are surprise transfers due to tampering and NIL. But if it does get bad enough, I think Painter would hang it up before really giving in to the new way

Why? There's nothing more moral about getting high school talent than NIL transfers. If it helps the program succeed of course he will. Now, I don't think Painter takes anymore he doesn't feel comfortable with. But if a season comes along where three 4 star guys want to transfer in and Painter feels comfortable with them, then yeah he will do it.

 

[bonefish1]

Money is also necessary. I just don't understand the folks lamenting kids getting a slice of the action as if that's some moral failing.

It isn't. If a kid wants to transfer every year for NIL so what? What's the actual moral issue there other than it affecting some people's enjoyment?

agreed. The NCAA has set up the framework, now kids are just capitalizing on it.
I don't like NIL any more than most fans, but it has to be part of the team building or player retainment strategy.
Can't fault a kid for wanting to get paid.

 

[bonefish1]

I think the way NIL and transfer portal function long-term in football versus basketball is gonna be very different though. I think in basketball it's easier to make a team more than the sum of its parts than it is in football.

Obviously there are bball players who can do it by themselves, but football e l

We lost our top player (a rush DE) and arguably our top WR to NIL this year. Yes, certain positions in FB will command more $ in NIL because of the instant impact.

 

[typeviic]

agreed. The NCAA has set up the framework, now kids are just capitalizing on it.
I don't like NIL any more than most fans, but it has to be part of the team building or player retainment strategy.
Can't fault a kid for wanting to get paid.

Dont think most of us think that, I dont. What we all want to avoid is an NFL-like atmosphere, before the salary cap, where Super Teams were built (Dallas, 49'rs) on deep-pocket owner dollars. Which, BTW, looks like it is headed in that direction, unfortunately.

 

[oldboiler52]

A player's father explained a new ripple to me. His son is going to a low mid major because the team has been crushed by players leaving for NIL money. His kid could have gone to a Big East team but wouldn't have played much as a freshman thus not increasing his NIL value. Where he is going, he can start and star thus increasing his NIL value. Then enter the portal. Also, he said more players will want to redshirt because it increases their NIL value when they enter portal. This was his close 2nd choice. Crazy Purdue was in on his kid as a freshman never offered him. I have seen Mason's NIL value at 300-400K That is life changing for a 23-year-old IMO. One of the reason's cited was his age it clearly increases your value. IU's Ballo will be in his 6th year. I have read posters saying this guy or that guy will redshirt now there is even more motive. If you don't have NBA dreams why not redshirt? Not everyone will get Mason money but even a 100k is there for the taking. Things change so fast makes my head spin.

 

[qazplm]

Dont think most of us think that, I dont. What we all want to avoid is an NFL-like atmosphere, before the salary cap, where Super Teams were built (Dallas, 49'rs) on deep-pocket owner dollars. Which, BTW, looks like it is headed in that direction, unfortunately.

I mean that happened before, just under the table.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Money is also necessary. I just don't understand the folks lamenting kids getting a slice of the action as if that's some moral failing.

It isn't. If a kid wants to transfer every year for NIL so what? What's the actual moral issue there other than it affecting some people's enjoyment?

“Getting a slice of the action” = Professional

Professional athletes sign binding contracts.

 

[qazplm]

“Getting a slice of the action” = Professional

Professional athletes sign binding contracts.

NIL is a contract. May not require a whole lot but it's a contract.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

A player's father explained a new ripple to me. His son is going to a low mid major because the team has been crushed by players leaving for NIL money. His kid could have gone to a Big East team but wouldn't have played much as a freshman thus not increasing his NIL value. Where he is going, he can start and star thus increasing his NIL value. Then enter the portal. Also, he said more players will want to redshirt because it increases their NIL value when they enter portal. This was his close 2nd choice. Crazy Purdue was in on his kid as a freshman never offered him. I have seen Mason's NIL value at 300-400K That is life changing for a 23-year-old IMO. One of the reason's cited was his age it clearly increases your value. IU's Ballo will be in his 6th year. I have read posters saying this guy or that guy will redshirt now there is even more motive. If you don't have NBA dreams why not redshirt? Not everyone will get Mason money but even a 100k is there for the taking. Things change so fast makes my head spin.

The new normal is taking shape.

Read someone say that a midmajor would benefit greatly by marketing themselves as a launch pad for kids. We will develop your skills and give you meaningful experience for 1-2 years, then go to the portal and get paid. Instead of them showcasing all the players that made it to the NBA, showcase the kids who went to P5 conference schools, won tourney and conference awards etc.

That could be a way for survival and growing their brand. What Calipari did for Kentucky, 1 n done, NBA factory, they could do for NIL potential.

 

[Do Dah Day]

This is an interesting question. Saw an analyst mention something similar and wondering of burnout of collectives and donors. What happens when a collective looks back in 2-3 years and asks why they spent 200-500k on a kid who put up 6pts and 3 rebounds a game. What happens when the same folks ask why they shelled out $1M or more for a roster to either miss the tourney or not make it out of the first weekend.

Personally, I think a lot of high school kids outside the top 50, will end up at places who don’t live and die with the portal. The recruitment of those kids in the 50-200 range will be more open because coaches are using NIL + portal as free agency. They see higher upside to quickly build a roster and potentially win with experienced players v player development.

Another thought for mid majors who experience high roster churn because of NIL + portal, why not become the Kentucky of the mid majors? Why not position yourself for great skill development and showcase the schools your kids left to go to? I mean Kentucky and Duke are the 5* one and dons factory. Why not be the 1-3 year development school to get a major NIL deal? Honestly, if I am a mid major, I am recruiting and signing 5-7 kids a year because I know my roster is going to get gutted.

I think this stuff levels off in another year when COVID kids are all done. They have added a weird element to the mix which is almost done. Perhaps we see some leveling off in the coming year.

I am SOOO fking ready for the covid year to go away!!!!

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I am SOOO fking ready for the covid year to go away!!!!

Same but if Marcus Domask’s lawsuit to get eligibility because he was injured and season was cut short - we might need another year.

 

[typeviic]

I mean that happened before, just under the table.

Well, yeah. But if it is transparent, it can be tweaked, regulated, policed, or whatever word you want to use, to keep a somewhat level playing field.

 

[qazplm]

Well, yeah. But if it is transparent, it can be tweaked, regulated, policed, or whatever word you want to use, to keep a somewhat level playing field.

I mean there's too many good players out there. I just don't see that currently the rich are richer and the smaller schools can't compete.

It is what it is now though, and it's definitely transparent.

 

[Roeder]

From afar, this transfer portal thing is crazy.

1. You have the guys who didn't get playing time transferring laterally or down for a better fit.

2. You have the low/mid majors wanting to move up a level.

3. You have the guys leaving due to coaching change.

4. Still have the last of the extra Covid Year guys lingering around.

5. You have guys leaving perfectly good situations looking for money. Not education. Not winning. Just money.

I'm OK with options 1-3. The covid year thing is getting really old, but whatever.

Number 5 is what might kill college basketball as we know it. It will turn into NFL free agency without a salary cap, contracts, or consequences for tampering. Professional sports without regulation. I'm not against college athletes making money, but there needs to be guard rails.

Purdue can try to swim against the current, but it's only a matter of time before someone we all love like Edey's phone rings with an offer none of us could refuse and they're out the door. It's happening at other schools, and we're naive to think it won't happen here either. When this becomes the norm, I think a large number of fans will lose interest, resulting in a loss of revenue for the sport, and maybe something will finally be done to fix the problem.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

NIL is a contract. May not require a whole lot but it's a contract.

Contract with who, though?

 

[qazplm]

Contract with who, though?

With whomever they are licensing their name and image to.

That's what they are getting paid for after all.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Overall the players claim that coaches leave all the time is true but many have to pay their way out of their contract to leave. At one time the NCAA allowed schools to offer 4 years scholarships instead of the 1 year renewables. Players wanting to be paid is fine BUT the schools have to consider scholarship contracts that have buyouts in them otherwise this carousel of players will continue.

Getting to the point of if 'I" am spending my money to watch an athletic event in person I will spend it on the real Pro's not the wanabees.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

With whomever they are licensing their name and image to.

That's what they are getting paid for after all.

not exactly.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

The argument jumped from “a kid should get part of the profits for their jersey being sold” to “so and so transfer guy should get $1M to play at whatever school that can afford it” very quickly.

This stuff and all the legalized gambling apps money may be the beginning of the end of true college sports, at least basketball and football.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

From afar, this transfer portal thing is crazy.

1. You have the guys who didn't get playing time transferring laterally or down for a better fit.

2. You have the low/mid majors wanting to move up a level.

3. You have the guys leaving due to coaching change.

4. Still have the last of the extra Covid Year guys lingering around.

5. You have guys leaving perfectly good situations looking for money. Not education. Not winning. Just money.

I'm OK with options 1-3. The covid year thing is getting really old, but whatever.

Number 5 is what might kill college basketball as we know it. It will turn into NFL free agency without a salary cap, contracts, or consequences for tampering. Professional sports without regulation. I'm not against college athletes making money, but there needs to be guard rails.

Purdue can try to swim against the current, but it's only a matter of time before someone we all love like Edey's phone rings with an offer none of us could refuse and they're out the door. It's happening at other schools, and we're naive to think it won't happen here either. When this becomes the norm, I think a large number of fans will lose interest, resulting in a loss of revenue for the sport, and maybe something will finally be done to fix the problem.

I get number 5. I think we’ve all left a job for to make more money at a company that isn’t necessarily better. I don’t love the idea but certainly understand their mindset.

I get that these are still young people making big decisions around financial security. I couldn’t imagine graduating college with no debt plus 6 figures in the ban. Would be wild to me.

I think some of the schools and collectives should engage sports agents and lawyers to find better ways to structure NIL deals. Do you do multi-year deal v single year deals? Do you have kickers or structure payments around retention? Can you legally give finally payments after the portal window closes? (Probably get sued and lose but just spitballing).

If I am part of the Purdue collective, I am thinking about the future. I am thinking how do we get ahead of the curve or setting the curve. Get creative around our deals and advertise it so kids and families know. I think there is a happy medium that can be solved.

 

[bonefish1]

From afar, this transfer portal thing is crazy.

1. You have the guys who didn't get playing time transferring laterally or down for a better fit.

2. You have the low/mid majors wanting to move up a level.

3. You have the guys leaving due to coaching change.

4. Still have the last of the extra Covid Year guys lingering around.

5. You have guys leaving perfectly good situations looking for money. Not education. Not winning. Just money.

I'm OK with options 1-3. The covid year thing is getting really old, but whatever.

Number 5 is what might kill college basketball as we know it. It will turn into NFL free agency without a salary cap, contracts, or consequences for tampering. Professional sports without regulation. I'm not against college athletes making money, but there needs to be guard rails.

Purdue can try to swim against the current, but it's only a matter of time before someone we all love like Edey's phone rings with an offer none of us could refuse and they're out the door. It's happening at other schools, and we're naive to think it won't happen here either. When this becomes the norm, I think a large number of fans will lose interest, resulting in a loss of revenue for the sport, and maybe something will finally be done to fix the problem.

Winning fixes all those problems. Some years, you might need to bring in 3-4 hired guns, other years, it might only be 1.
Painter may not like NIL, but I think he has to embrace it to use it when necessary.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Winning fixes all those problems. Some years, you might need to bring in 3-4 hired guns, other years, it might only be 1.
Painter may not like NIL, but I think he has to embrace it to use it when necessary.

He is embracing it like Billy Beane embraced free agency in MoneyBall…

spoiler: Purdue is closer to being the A’s than the Yankees… so we’re signing Hatteberg not Giambi…

 

[POTFHBTFU]

With Purdue basketball being the flagship power-5 outlier that holds out and does it the old-fashioned way by recruiting/developing players, does it widen the recruiting landscape for high school seniors that still want to play and look for a traditional-built team? The comradery and team chemistry that they are used to in high school.

I wouldn’t say we are an outlier. If you look at the Sweet 16 this year I would say UConn, Marquette, Gonzaga, Illinois, and arguably Duke are teams whose fans would take offense to that and have sustained success. All good coaches that develop players and recruit ring chaser transfers.

 

[Dekezar]

With Purdue basketball being the flagship power-5 outlier that holds out and does it the old-fashioned way by recruiting/developing players, does it widen the recruiting landscape for high school seniors that still want to play and look for a traditional-built team? The comradery and team chemistry that they are used to in high school.

It’s a new day Johnell Davis is holding out for 3 figures and Michigan is not coming up to his numbers right now.how big is your pocket

 

[Hausta01]

It’s a new day Johnell Davis is holding out for 3 figures and Michigan is not coming up to his numbers right now.how big is your pocket

3 figures? I got $100 for him to come to Purdue

 

[Dekezar]

3 figures? I got $100 for him to come to Purdue

More than 100000 May get you there

 

[rsomm]

I get number 5. I think we’ve all left a job for to make more money at a company that isn’t necessarily better. I don’t love the idea but certainly understand their mindset.

I get that these are still young people making big decisions around financial security. I couldn’t imagine graduating college with no debt plus 6 figures in the ban. Would be wild to me.

I think some of the schools and collectives should engage sports agents and lawyers to find better ways to structure NIL deals. Do you do multi-year deal v single year deals? Do you have kickers or structure payments around retention? Can you legally give finally payments after the portal window closes? (Probably get sued and lose but just spitballing).

If I am part of the Purdue collective, I am thinking about the future. I am thinking how do we get ahead of the curve or setting the curve. Get creative around our deals and advertise it so kids and families know. I think there is a happy medium that can be solved.

It's a DIASTER! It's the end of college basketball! The only commitment is to the Almightly dollar! PERIOD! The money is going to dry up, it's just a matter of time! FUTURE??? What future! This has turned into a SHIT SHOW! Is this HIGHER EDUCATION??? GREED 101! This FAN, is not going to bank roll any.part of it! PAINTER gets it, fans on here who want to spend other peoples money are going to end up with what they deserve!