NC Opportunity - Discuss

[CRBoiler]

There is talk of a national championship being the goal this year for our Boilermakers, and I'm in. Let's F'ing do it.

Topic of discussion: What will it take? Who needs to rise up & exceed expectations?

My opinion:
- Hammons and Swanigan need to be a 1-2 punch down low that is the envy of D1.
- Edwards needs to be more assertive & more explosive. I loved his smart, steady play last year, but this year we need Vince to be able to create for himself when needed. Imagine if he could develop an Evan Turner like cross-over / drive. ET was my most feared individual player for Purdue to face his last year at OSU.
- At least two reliably good shooters need to emerge. When I say reliable, I mean they hit at least 30-35% in 60% to 75% of the games. Of course, there will be off nights, but it needs to not be 75% from 3 one game and then 15% the next three or four games. Stephens struggled to be a reliable shooter last year - he was very streaky IMO. I suspect Cline will be in the mix as a reliable shooter. I have this feeling he is going to be a good one for us.
- We need more than serviceable PG coverage, including an ability to deal with the FC press. If we can't deal with the press again this year, then we will be vulnerable once we get to the caliber of athletes in the NCAA tournament, especially once we get to the sweet 16.
- Defense needs to be very good, even better than last year. Our points per game should go up this season, but to win the NC, our defense needs to be improved over last season. Ray seems like a leader than can make it happen.
- Similarly, team play / passing on offense needs to be improved. If Swanigan is the passer I've heard he is, his presence should help

wudya think?

 

[Kendall Stephens]

Let's get it

 

[Boiler Buck]

Realistically, to be that kind of team a lot of thing need to improve. A lot of unknowns and so many questions......

1. 2 guard play? Stephens is key as he has the length and now experience to emerge. I say it is his D that needs to improve the most with consistency of shooting next. Davis could surprise there? But whomever - we have to have scoring from the guard play on a consistent basis?
2. PG ??? Has to be every bit as good as last year if not better. Just so many questions there. Not to mention handling the ball under duress. Like #1 can the PG score?
3. NBA types? - whether they are actual NBA players or marginal guys with NBA potential they need to deliver when it counts. Hammons, Haas, CS and Edwards all need to deliver. All good NC type teams have 2-3 of these who deliver in the dance.
4. Defense of CS? He will play a lot, but can he defend and be a team defender?
5. FT shooting - can the bigs improve there?
6. Turnovers - can we keep them down to a reasonable level?
7. Davis? Where does he play? He is our leader, but how and where does he contribute this year?
8 Clutch Delivery? Last year we lost to most of the top B1G teams, so here is the main deal......can they make the jump where now they can put great teams away this year?
9. Coach? Can he coach a team with so much talent deep in the tourney? Can he keep them all happy? Most of all can Painter manage his troops to deliver answers to all the questions above?

 

[dumpsterFyre]

I love your enthusiasm! Yes, AJ+Biggs need to be the best front court in college basketball.

I don't think Vince needs to be Evan Turneresque, but I think we will have success if he becomes a Robbie Hummel type glue guy.

Kendall needs to shoot at an upper 40% clip from 3.

Dakota Mathias needs to be our version of Jon Diebler.

RAPHEAL DAVIS' role as a leader and scorer cannot be understated if we are going to compete at the highest levels. He has the maturity to bring the team together and i suspect he has not wasted the offseason. Another year as a lock down defender, but needs to show the midrange jumper so people respect him on offense. If his offense can match his defense, he'll be like no boiler we've had in the past.

Everyone else must improve and know their role kn the team.

 

[Schnelk]

I'd bet the entire returning squad has been in the gym or weight room every single day. And I suspect the frosh will have the same work ethic from their Day 1.

 

[thenagemj02]

A stud go-to guard or playmaker would need to emerge offensively for Purdue to play at their highest level possible next season (IMO). A team can have as many talented bigs as one could possibly want, but if they don't have any guards, point-forwards, or someone that is a duel threat with the ball in their hands that is REALLY good offensively, it's going to be tough to keep winning in March and April.

Coaching flexibility is important as well. Go on YouTube, NCAA Vault, or whatever else and watch any game that features any team that has ever ended up playing in the Final Four, National Title game, or that won the National Title. You will see that in their NCAA Tournament games, those teams will change up their styles of defense (at the very least) once and will play these varying styles for prolonged periods of time. The same goes for their halfcourt offense(s). If it's not a style change, then it's a variety of set plays being ran.

Those are the two biggest keys to me if this team is going to play at a high level consistently and be very successful.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

A stud go-to guard or playmaker would need to emerge offensively for Purdue to play at their highest level possible next season (IMO). A team can have as many talented bigs as one could possibly want, but if they don't have any guards, point-forwards, or someone that is a duel threat with the ball in their hands that is REALLY good offensively, it's going to be tough to keep winning in March and April.

Coaching flexibility is important as well. Go on YouTube, NCAA Vault, or whatever else and watch any game that features any team that has ever ended up playing in the Final Four, National Title game, or that won the National Title. You will see that in their NCAA Tournament games, those teams will change up their styles of defense (at the very least) once and will play these varying styles for prolonged periods of time. The same goes for their halfcourt offense(s). If it's not a style change, then it's a variety of set plays being ran.

Those are the two biggest keys to me if this team is going to play at a high level consistently and be very successful.

Did I read you correctly? Are you saying that one of the two biggest keys to Purdue winning a national championship is that Painter mix in zone defense along with man?

 

[choptalk]

Hard to think about the FF with so many things up in the air. Our outside shooting, free throw shooting (especially our bigs), and the point guard situation. I'd love to see Purdue reach it but a lot has to fall into place for this to become a realization. 1980 was a long time ago and I was there.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I'm not going to participate in such a premature topic. Leave that for the Juggaloes that follow the Insane Clown Posse down in Gloomington.

 

[CRBoiler]

Hey now, it's the off season. Premature? I've been around long enough to know it's never to early to consider what it's going to take to achieve long-term goals. In fact, NOT thinking about what work needs to be put in to achieve long-term goals is the mistake. If we have a few Ray-like jumps this off-season, and if freshmen pan out, we could be there in Houston. Let's get it done. Boiler Up!

 

[thenagemj02]

Did I read you correctly? Are you saying that one of the two biggest keys to Purdue winning a national championship is that Painter mix in zone defense along with man?

I didn't state that specifically but yes, that would be two different defensive looks a team can give an opponent. It's a common practice among most teams to mix things up on both ends so as not to let an opponent get too comfortable or "figure them out".

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I didn't state that specifically but yes, that would be two different defensive looks a team can give an opponent. It's a common practice among most teams to mix things up on both ends so as not to let an opponent get too comfortable or "figure them out".

This sounds like fine tuning. It makes for an interesting discussion, but if it is one of the two biggest factors in determining whether Purdue wins a national championship, Purdue is in really good shape.

 

[mathboy]

You guys know that I am a regular drinker of the coolaid. However, I don't see this team as an NC contender. I think you need a couple go-to guys on the team that can score regardless of who they face up to. This is probably a bad analogy, but you need a couple "Labron" type players at the college level who can always score on the opponent. We just don't have that kind of talent. Swanigan may fit this description, but we need a second kid at his talent level, and they need to stick around a couple years to get the experience to make a run in March.

We have a good squad of kids that will go deep into the NCAA tournament, but we will meet that team we can't stop. Unfortunately, they will stop us enolugh to score more than we do. It happens to all teams except one each year, so it is no disgrace. In most games, we are going to be a match up nightmare, but there are teams that can, and will beat us. I can see us maybe getting to the FF if the region is stocked with either overranked teams, or teams that we match up well against. We have seen that sort of thing before. However, most of the teams that make the FF are very well balanced teams with several go-to guys, usually in their back court.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

You guys know that I am a regular drinker of the coolaid. However, I don't see this team as an NC contender. I think you need a couple go-to guys on the team that can score regardless of who they face up to. This is probably a bad analogy, but you need a couple "Labron" type players at the college level who can always score on the opponent. We just don't have that kind of talent. Swanigan may fit this description, but we need a second kid at his talent level, and they need to stick around a couple years to get the experience to make a run in March.

We have a good squad of kids that will go deep into the NCAA tournament, but we will meet that team we can't stop. Unfortunately, they will stop us enolugh to score more than we do. It happens to all teams except one each year, so it is no disgrace. In most games, we are going to be a match up nightmare, but there are teams that can, and will beat us. I can see us maybe getting to the FF if the region is stocked with either overranked teams, or teams that we match up well against. We have seen that sort of thing before. However, most of the teams that make the FF are very well balanced teams with several go-to guys, usually in their back court.

This is a good perspective for fans, who need to appreciate just how difficult winning a national championship is. We need to be able to appreciate the accomplishments of this team, regardless of whether they fall short of the ultimate goal.

On the other hand, winning a national championship definitely should be one of the goals of the team. It shouldn't be the only goal, but I love that guys like Davis and Swanigan are aiming high.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

I just want to win the B1G first. Clobber IU, MSU and Wisconsin into a bloody pulp.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I just want to win the B1G first. Clobber IU, MSU and Wisconsin into a bloody pulp.

Completely agree. I'd be lying to you if I haven't though about this squad making the FF, but every time I do that, I remind myself that goals should be broken up into into the postseason and regular season.

Right now, the goals is/are to win the B1G and/or make the tourney. Once that happens, then the goal should shift to the FF.

 

[woggy718]

How many "Lebron" type players did George Mason, VCU, or Butler x2 have? Hell, how many did MSU have last year?

And as far as high caliber players with experience, how much experience did Duke's players have?

It's a combination of all of these things, plus a little luck, favorable matchups, etc.

How many NBA caliber players would you consider to be on Wisconsin's roster 2 years ago?

 

[BoilerDeac]

How many "Lebron" type players did George Mason, VCU, or Butler x2 have? Hell, how many did MSU have last year?

And as far as high caliber players with experience, how much experience did Duke's players have?

It's a combination of all of these things, plus a little luck, favorable matchups, etc.

How many NBA caliber players would you consider to be on Wisconsin's roster 2 years ago?

I think the Lebron thing was more a point to say need a guy who can go and get you a bucket. How many times last season did Trice isolate, go one-on-one and get a bucket for MSU? I remember a bunch. Wisconsin had Dekker and Kaminsky. Gordon Hayward played that role for Butler.

Regardless, I think that guy will emerge for Purdue.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I'm not jumping on board. The last time I felt like we had a legit shot a knee popped and everything went in the toilet. I'll take the ride one game at a time and enjoy it as we go but I'm not gonna dream big until it is a heck of a lot closer than we are right now.

 

[mathboy]

How many "Lebron" type players did George Mason, VCU, or Butler x2 have? Hell, how many did MSU have last year?

And as far as high caliber players with experience, how much experience did Duke's players have?

It's a combination of all of these things, plus a little luck, favorable matchups, etc.

How many NBA caliber players would you consider to be on Wisconsin's roster 2 years ago?

I think you mixed getting to the FF with winning an NC. Those team you mention, Butler, Geo Mason, VCU, etc got exactly zero NC's out of their trips to the FF, and I will venture to say that they got beat by teams with more talent. Teams that had that go-to-guy(s), who can always score the ball. Duke had that level of talent. We don't, or at least we have not shown that level of talent.

 

[*4purdue*]

1) Stay healthy
2) Team chemistry
3) At least 1 of KS, DM or Cline need to have a break out year in shooting the ball.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I think you mixed getting to the FF with winning an NC. Those team you mention, Butler, Geo Mason, VCU, etc got exactly zero NC's out of their trips to the FF, and I will venture to say that they got beat by teams with more talent. Teams that had that go-to-guy(s), who can always score the ball. Duke had that level of talent. We don't, or at least we have not shown that level of talent.

I heard Brad Stevens tell a story about the summer before the Hayward team came within a last second shot of beating Duke for the national championship. He said that he thought that his team was feeling a little too comfortable, so when he met with the team before the season he told them that the goal was to win the national championship.

It's easy to look at history and come up with reasons why it can't happen and that is fine for fans, but the team can't have that mindset. Fortunately, I am seeing great leadership from Davis and I think that this team is approaching the offseason with a hungry, "can do" attitude.

 

[rjmpu82]

It's great to have goals and a FF is a realistic one. However, things have to break your way. Injuries, off court issues, your draw and path to the FF all come into play. Or how about just having an off game? Just ask KY about having tons of talent and coming up short. Great goal, hope it happens, but good players and good coaches still need some breaks to go their way to get there.

 

[Boiler Buck]

FF - slight possibility if the luck of matchups go Purdue's way (we are due for that aren't we?)

NC - No possibility IMO.......so if this happens it is clearly the Lord's will.

 

[77 grad]

Two (I hope not contradictory) statements:

1. Love to see it!

2. Show me the point guard.

 

[SnowLeopard]

FF is a realistic goal, NC is not. But having said that, once you are in the FF, you are just a couple of lucky breaks from taking the whole thing.

I don't see 3 point shooting as a problem. Davis shot 38.2% from three once conference play started. Stephens shot 42.9% before injury. Those two are our shooters, and if either one falters, Cline and Mathias will have their turns.

Vince will do well.

The one major question mark is PG. If Hill or PJ gives us BIG starting caliber play (or even Weatherford, Davis, Mathias as long shots), then I will adjust my expectations upwards.

Currently, I see round of 32 as the floor, F4 as the ceiling, and S16 - E8 as the middle scenario

 

[cprh9u]

It's too early to talk about this, but it's June, so what else is there? I've been down on Painter for a while, but I think he may very well be at the start of something special should he extend back to back years of excellent recruiting in 2014 and 2015 (2012 and 2013 were ok to solid, but not excellent). I've always believed he was an above average x's and o's guy and if his recruiting stays at the level we've seen the last 2 years, including the ability to land some x-factors like CS to go along with excellent team players/potential difference makers in VE and DM, the sky is the limit.

While I don't see a NC this year due to lack of guard play (not bad, just not dynamic) and the overall lack of guys who are true difference makers and can take over a game at any time, I see us finishing 2nd to Maryland, securing a top 3 seed, and depending on the bracket, making a run to potentially the final 4 with some luck. I think that's our ceiling, but that is pretty damn good and a far cry from where we were just 2 years ago. Really looking forward to the team this year and what the future holds if CMP can keep the recruiting momentum and player chemistry going.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

FF is a realistic goal, NC is not. But having said that, once you are in the FF, you are just a couple of lucky breaks from taking the whole thing.

I don't see 3 point shooting as a problem. Davis shot 38.2% from three once conference play started. Stephens shot 42.9% before injury. Those two are our shooters, and if either one falters, Cline and Mathias will have their turns.

Vince will do well.

The one major question mark is PG. If Hill or PJ gives us BIG starting caliber play (or even Weatherford, Davis, Mathias as long shots), then I will adjust my expectations upwards.

Currently, I see round of 32 as the floor, F4 as the ceiling, and S16 - E8 as the middle scenario

I'm not saying that I expect a national championship or anything, but I don't get calling F4 the ceiling. The way that I look at it is that I recently saw that UNC and Maryland were favorites to win it all. If Purdue were to meet UNC and Maryland in the F4, would you concede those games? I certainly wouldn't.

I am not predicting a national championship, but it absolutely should be one of the team's goals. They should concede nothing at this point.

 

[thenagemj02]

The overall scoring production and efficiency (i.e. good shooting, etc.) from the guys that play the 1-3 spots is something that I continue to believe is very important for this team. I think the 4-5 spots will be in good shape, especially if Haas improves and Jacquil Taylor is healthy and ready to contribute.

As a few of us have mentioned, having at least one player from those 1-3 spots emerging as a big-time, go-to scorer every single game would be HUGE. They might be one dynamic scorer/playmaker away (think of someone like Monte Morris of Iowa State) from having all the pieces that this team needs to play great basketball.

 

[PU pit bull]

The overall scoring production and efficiency (i.e. good shooting, etc.) from the guys that play the 1-3 spots is something that I continue to believe is very important for this team. I think the 4-5 spots will be in good shape, especially if Haas improves and Jacquil Taylor is healthy and ready to contribute.

As a few of us have mentioned, having at least one player from those 1-3 spots emerging as a big-time, go-to scorer every single game would be HUGE. They might be one dynamic scorer/playmaker away (think of someone like Monte Morris of Iowa State) from having all the pieces that this team needs to play great basketball.

What happened to just regular "nagemj02"?

 

[Schnelk]

Yeah no shit. Who is this guy? Sounds like nage though

 

[thenagemj02]

My password stopped working for some reason and I couldn't change it because the password reset info. was being sent to an e-mail I stopped using quite awhile ago.

 

[anythingbutIU]

So why isn't National Champs the goal?

 

[SnowLeopard]

lets distinguish between EXPECTATION and GOAL

GOAL - NC

Current EXPECTATION - S16

The gap can be bridged by the hard (and smart) work that players and coach puts in during the next 9 months....and a nice dose of good luck that is decades overdue.

We have close to enough talent to be a NC darkhorse. Hammons, Haas, Swanigan, Vince, Davis, Stephens...thats 6 players who are good enough to play professionally at a high level somewhere as they currently stand.

Mathias, Smotherman, Cline, Taylor, PJ, Hill are as good or better a second 6 than any I've ever seen at Purdue. I also suspect one or more of this second 6 will also play professionally at a high level when they are done with their Purdue career