Tall Tell recruits

[tjreese]

My recollection is the same. Smith and Edey were fairly successful at forcing teams to make a choice on the pick and roll, help off Edey to stop a driving Smith (risking the lob back to Edey) or leave Smith an opening for a driving layup.

I love Smith but one could argue he'd be less effective at getting to the basket without the threat of the lob to Edey.

Not sure Zach or no Zach has a lot to do with Braden getting to the basket which is way down the list in what Braden supplies. If your assumption about Braden getting to the basket better with Zach on the court is true…is that because you believe Braden’s defender sags off and gives up real estate in helping defend Zach or that Braden’s defender is belly up on Braden to make the pass harder and Braden gets around his defender?

It appears to me that the only possible thing a defender on Braden could do with Zach on the court is give up real estate to let Braden get deeper based upon Zach’s presence affecting Braden’s game. Braden’s strengths are running the team, his court vision and savvy. Those things are magnified if the team gets up and down the court quicker as well as the court being spread. Braden’s individual game is probably improved with a faster clip and the court being spread in the eyes of many which will be after this year I’m guessing. Braden is a much better athlete than some believe.

Unlike many, I’m much more concerned about the 3 and 4 being more effective this year than the 1. I think the 3 will be an improvement and hope the 4 is as well.

 

[bonefish1]

Wasn't easy for the 29 games we won with Zach largely dominating foes who might have "easily" gamed-planned against us.

I think 3 things happened last year.
1) early in the year, our opponents didn't have us scouted very well and out freshman played above their expectations. Thus, beating teams like Duke and Zaga.
2) Painter built another team for the B10 rock fights. As we've seen, these B10 teams that really heavily on low post big men doesn't translate to the style needed in the tourney.
3) Once teams had some tape on Purdue, became easier to scout/defend. Guys got worn down some (zone anyone to help preserve some legs???) and our 3 pt shooting went to hell.

 

[bonefish1]

Not sure Zach or no Zach has a lot to do with Braden getting to the basket which is way down the list in what Braden supplies. If your assumption about Braden getting to the basket better with Zach on the court is true…is that because you believe Braden’s defender sags off and gives up real estate in helping defend Zach or that Braden’s defender is belly up on Braden to make the pass harder and Braden gets around his defender?

It appears to me that the only possible thing a defender on Braden could do with Zach on the court is give up real estate to let Braden get deeper based upon Zach’s presence affecting Braden’s game. Braden’s strengths are running the team, his court vision and savvy. Those things are magnified if the team gets up and down the court quicker as well as the court being spread. Braden’s individual game is probably improved with a faster clip and the court being spread in the eyes of many which will be after this year I’m guessing. Braden is a much better athlete than some believe.

Unlike many, I’m much more concerned about the 3 and 4 being more effective this year than the 1. I think the 3 will be an improvement and hope the 4 is as well.

Agree that one of Smiths strengths is transition offense. Would love to see Painter experiment with some small/fast transition line ups to see what happens: Smith-Loyer/Jones-Heide-Colvin-Furst.

 

[northside100]

Not sure Zach or no Zach has a lot to do with Braden getting to the basket which is way down the list in what Braden supplies. If your assumption about Braden getting to the basket better with Zach on the court is true…is that because you believe Braden’s defender sags off and gives up real estate in helping defend Zach or that Braden’s defender is belly up on Braden to make the pass harder and Braden gets around his defender?

It appears to me that the only possible thing a defender on Braden could do with Zach on the court is give up real estate to let Braden get deeper based upon Zach’s presence affecting Braden’s game. Braden’s strengths are running the team, his court vision and savvy. Those things are magnified if the team gets up and down the court quicker as well as the court being spread. Braden’s individual game is probably improved with a faster clip and the court being spread in the eyes of many which will be after this year I’m guessing. Braden is a much better athlete than some believe

Zach's presence makes it easier for Braden to get to the basket because he doesn't have to worry about the big coming over to help. At times you saw two defenders going over to put a body on Zach and keep him away from the basket when someone drove because they didn't want to give up the lob. We saw a similar result against IU when we gave up a ton of short jumpers to the freshman who torched us because we prioritized keeping someone close to TJD..

 

[johnboiler123]

I'm cool with that too so long as we have all Americans at guards and wings. I posted it before but it's worth repeating, if you take a guy like Diakite and put him on Purdue's team last year instead of Zach you end up with an NCAAT bubble team.

Purdue has had a bunch of really dominant post guys because those guys (Biggie, AJ, Zach, etc.) were far and away the best players on the team. If you want to get away from that you need better players at other positions and they need a better supporting cast. Understand and agree that it's on Painter to bring those players in but I can't fault him for getting the best players he can and featuring those players in the meantime.

Believe it or not but they don’t even have to all be all Americans. Correct me if I’m wrong but diakite wasn’t surrounded by 4 all Americans, no? Other than a select few players our talent at the guard positions throughout painters tenure has been down right pitiful.

 

[tjreese]

Agree that one of Smiths strengths is transition offense. Would love to see Painter experiment with some small/fast transition line ups to see what happens: Smith-Loyer/Jones-Heide-Colvin-Furst.

I thought we would see some of that last year when Zach went to the bench, but this year could even be better when Zach goes to the bench. In an open court that team would probably be very good on offense. Colvin will need to improve on D and Heide I don't have a feel. However, if a team forces you to a slower pace and a half court game there are a lot of questions unanswered. I like the opportunity to play both ways. IMO when two really good teams play they are solid enough that a press will not be effective, and transition baskets will be held to a minimum. Generally the teams that have the best half court game on O and D will win because they won't have the glowing flaws that weaker teams do

 

[northside100]

Believe it or not but they don’t even have to all be all Americans. Correct me if I’m wrong but diakite wasn’t surrounded by 4 all Americans, no? Other than a select few players our talent at the guard positions throughout painters tenure has been down right pitiful.

No one said anything about four all americans. Guy and Hunter both made some AA teams and were both first team all ACC. Ty Jerome was second team all ACC. Hunter was ACC defensive player of the year and the fourth overall pick in the draft. Those are big time players and Diakite himself was a high level recruit.

Again, if Painter can start landing that level of player consistently I'm all for it. If not, it's pretty ignorant to insist that the style of play is the issue and not the quality of the players.

 

[johnboiler123]

No one said anything about four all americans. Guy and Hunter both made some AA teams and were both first team all ACC. Ty Jerome was second team all ACC. Hunter was ACC defensive player of the year and the fourth overall pick in the draft. Those are big time players and Diakite himself was a high level recruit.

Again, if Painter can start landing that level of player consistently I'm all for it. If not, it's pretty ignorant to insist that the style of play is the issue and not the quality of the players.

You referred to both guards and wings in the plural sense. That would mean more than one of each. So that also would mean at least 4 all Americans. Your words, not mine. Maybe you were talking about having more than 4 all Americans on one team?

I just checked the rivals ratings of all those guys and the highest was Kyle guy at 43. None of those guys were some elite 5 star recruits like you’re making it out to be. And diakite didn’t even have a ranking so calling him some high level recruit is sort of a joke. What’s ignorant is acting like the only style of ball we can play and be good at is 1980’s back to the basket post up ball. It doesn’t work. You say quality of player is the issue yet we consistently get beat by inferior teams in the tournament who we have a talent advantage over. Explain that?

 

[northside100]

You referred to both guards and wings in the plural sense. That would mean more than one of each. So that also would mean at least 4 all Americans. Your words, not mine. Maybe you were talking about having more than 4 all Americans on one team?

I just checked the rivals ratings of all those guys and the highest was Kyle guy at 43. None of those guys were some elite 5 star recruits like you’re making it out to be. And diakite didn’t even have a ranking so calling him some high level recruit is sort of a joke. What’s ignorant is acting like the only style of ball we can play and be good at is 1980’s back to the basket post up ball. It doesn’t work. You say quality of player is the issue yet we consistently get beat by inferior teams in the tournament who we have a talent advantage over. Explain that?

You seem to be confused and struggling with facts. Plural means more than one. It would be ignorant to assume that anyone was stating that you need four all americans. UVA had two.

Is referring to Hunter's status as a recruit rather than the fact that he was the #4 pick in the draft saying that he wasn't talented? Doesn't make sense to me but ok. Maybe you were talking about another Mamadi Diakite at UVA than the one linked below who was a high four star / low five star prospect? Link: Diakite recruiting profile (spoiler alert, joke punchline)

If any of that is still confusing to you just let me know and I can type slower (I'm kidding, I typed this as slowly as I could).

 

[johnboiler123]

You seem to be confused and struggling with facts. Plural means more than one. It would be ignorant to assume that anyone was stating that you need four all americans. UVA had two.

Is referring to Hunter's status as a recruit rather than the fact that he was the #4 pick in the draft saying that he wasn't talented? Doesn't make sense to me but ok. Maybe you were talking about another Mamadi Diakite at UVA than the one linked below who was a high four star / low five star prospect? Link: Diakite recruiting profile (spoiler alert, joke punchline)

If any of that is still confusing to you just let me know and I can type slower (I'm kidding, I typed this as slowly as I could).

If you refer to both guards and wings in a plural sense, that would mean at least 2 of each. Which would mean at least 4, use your fingers if you’re struggling to count that high. I get that you don’t seem to understand what you’re typing, but if you don’t even know what you’re trying to say, how am I supposed to?

As far as the recruits go I’ll lay this out again, nice and easy just for you . None of those guys were 5 stars according to rivals, and diakite didn’t even have a ranking. Also I think that’s cute how you immediately brought up hunters draft rating(which is completely irrelevant) after I pointed out that he wasn’t some big time recruit you falsely made him out to be.

 

[northside100]

If you refer to both guards and wings in a plural sense, that would mean at least 2 of each. Which would mean at least 4, use your fingers if you’re struggling to count that high. I get that you don’t seem to understand what you’re typing, but if you don’t even know what you’re trying to say, how am I supposed to?

As far as the recruits go I’ll lay this out again, nice and easy just for you . None of those guys were 5 stars according to rivals, and diakite didn’t even have a ranking. Also I think that’s cute how you immediately brought up hunters draft rating(which is completely irrelevant) after I pointed out that he wasn’t some big time recruit you falsely made him out to be.

I apologize to the board for allowing the conversation to go down this path. I'll try to stick to the facts. Your posting history and the fact that you continue to post statements that are simply not true would suggest that you are unable to do the same.

• It was not my intent to communicate that you needed every other position to be all americans in order for a player like Diakite to be a starting 5 on a FF or NC team. That seems obvious to me as no teams have four AA’s but it may not be to some.
• My original point was that I like versatile, mobile centers as well but
  • 1) the best of them are much more difficult to sign than more traditional low post centers (MP has offered quite a few or those types in recent years and not signed any) and
  • 2) if they are not destination scorers they need to have better players around them than Purdue had last year. It is pretty clear to me, although others may disagree, that Guy, Hunter and Jerome were all more productive than anyone outside of Zach on Purdue's roster last year. Hunter also had NBA athleticism and was the ACC DPOY. Regardless of recruiting rankings, these were really high level players.
  • 3) Put Diakite on last year’s Purdue team in place of Zach and the team is significantly worse.
• You said that Diakite at UVA wasn't surrounded by all americans. That is simply not true. Guy and Hunter were third team AA's. Ty Jerome was second team all ACC. Jack Salt was a role player as their fifth starter and was actually their true center.
• You said that Diakite wasn't ranked and then said he wasn't ranked by Rivals. That is also untrue. I've attached below links to his 247 and Rivals recruiting profiles. His Rivals profile doesn't have a number but does list him as a four star.
• • Link: 247 Diakite recruiting profile
  • Link: Rivals Diakite recruiting profile

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Spot on but I'll make one correction. Replace "main" with "only" in your last sentence.

Nobody is that good. If he didn't have the supporting cast we wouldn't have been ranked #1 at ANY point.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Nobody is that good. If he didn't have the supporting cast we wouldn't have been ranked #1 at ANY point.

I guess we're looking at it a little differently. Without Edey, we aren't a title contender.
With Edey, five or six B1G would be contenders for a National Title.

He is that good.

 

[northside100]

I guess we're looking at it a little differently. Without Edey, we aren't a title contender.
With Edey, five or six B1G would be contenders for a National Title.

He is that good.

Zach is fantastic, a generational player. I’m not sure this team wouldn’t contend for a BT title without him. Just my hot take, I could be wrong.

 

[tjreese]

Zach is fantastic, a generational player. I’m not sure this team wouldn’t contend for a BT title without him. Just my hot take, I could be wrong.

generational talent I agree, have hesitation in thinking Purdue couldn't contend without him.

 

[northside100]

generational talent I agree, have hesitation in thinking Purdue couldn't contend without him.

That’s what I was trying to say, I probably worded it poorly with the double negative. I think they could be in the hunt for a BT championship without him.

Lower NCAAT seed and lower overall ceiling but more opportunities for Caleb, Trey. etc.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I guess we're looking at it a little differently. Without Edey, we aren't a title contender.
With Edey, five or six B1G would be contenders for a National Title.

He is that good.

You're ignoring the supporting cast. Nobody can do it alone. Not even Zack.

 

[bonefish1]

That’s what I was trying to say, I probably worded it poorly with the double negative. I think they could be in the hunt for a BT championship without him.

Lower NCAAT seed and lower overall ceiling but more opportunities for Caleb, Trey. etc.

Who cares about a B10 championship. We need a NC!

 

[Boiler Buck]

Who cares about a B10 championship. We need a NC!

Can we have both?
But yea, "need" is appropriate.

But, in any case, I call a B10 championship, a successful season.

 

[bonefish1]

Can we have both?
But yea, "need" is appropriate.

But, in any case, I call a B10 championship, a successful season.

Winning a B10 championship is nice, but Purdue needs to quit using success in conference as the measuring stick.

 

[northside100]

Who cares about a B10 championship. We need a NC!

Good thing we have Zach this year then

The next few years seem like the window to get to multiple FF's or a NC (or both). Programs generally move in one direction or the other, they rarely stand pat. Purdue is clearly trending up at this point (IMO) but need to take advantage and produce in the NCAAT to get out of the shadows of the UM's and MSU's of the world.

 

[bonefish1]

Good thing we have Zach this year then

The next few years seem like the window to get to multiple FF's or a NC (or both). Programs generally move in one direction or the other, they rarely stand pat. Purdue is clearly trending up at this point (IMO) but need to take advantage and produce in the NCAAT to get out of the shadows of the UM's and MSU's of the world.

Not sure I'd agree with the "trending up" opinion. Our tourney performance has been pretty dismal as of late. Arguably trending down.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Not sure I'd agree with the "trending up" opinion. Our tourney performance has been pretty dismal as of late. Arguably trending down.

Alternately, we could look at the facts, which show Painter making 4 of the last 6 sweet sixteens.

 

[northside100]

Not sure I'd agree with the "trending up" opinion. Our tourney performance has been pretty dismal as of late. Arguably trending down.

Shocking that you feel that way, you should be more transparent with your views (kidding) . As you know I completely disagree for a multitude of reasons not worth rehashing for the nth time.

 

[bonefish1]

Alternately, we could look at the facts, which show Painter making 4 of the last 6 sweet sixteens.

Here we go again....

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Here we go again....

You mean me bringing up facts? Yeah I like to do that, sorry.

 

[Gemini95]

You mean me bringing up facts? Yeah I like to do that, sorry.

Plural?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Plural?

Yes, in the aggregate I have provided Bone with multiple data points that don’t support his theories. Only needed one of them this time.