Are you that fly in the room? How do you know what CMP pitches? That's impressive.
Malik Hall update
- Thread starter ChoiceBeef
- Start date
- Status
Every time a recruit is asked what Painter is saying to them, it's the same answer 90% of the time. You must not follow Purdue basketball recruiting
In this instance...…….a wise man or sage...…….but I'm sure you are a prognosticator as well.
If true, hopefully Painter can have an in home with Newman soon to pitch what it looks like without Franklin in the picture.
He IS the fly in the room: That’s why none of the Gillis family could see him when Mason committed!
Who said tell them they DON’T have to play defense?
You think Calipari is telling his yearly pick of the liter, “Come to UK, defense is optional”?
oh, good grief. Go back in the thread to understand the context.
What did you think was the point to which I was responding??
This isn't that hard.
He's an IU troll! Guy is a little weird with his obsession of IU on a Purdue board.
He's not winning many recruiting battles for the top talent in his own backyard though. That's the problem. It's not good when MSU, Lville, OSU, and other ACC schools can come into your backyard and poach your top talent.
There's a really strong correlation between high school recruit rankings and those that make it to the NBA. Just as there is a strong correlation between teams that have highly ranked recruiting classes and teams that consistently make deep tourney runs.
The rankings are arbitrary. They're meaningful.
I think Purdue's focus on defense, (whether real or perceived) hurts recruiting. Having a focus on defense (even when the offensive numbers say differently) hasn't led to a Final Four in 40 years. I don't like the 'Defense Lives Here" thing.
In terms of what changes can be made to a recruiting pitch that can attract players.....it was posted here previously, don't remember which thread. But it was someone from Hammer and Rails talking about other coaches, their pitches, and what players are impressed by. This came from talking to local Indiana high school coaches and players, discussing what their visits were like to other places.
The main gist of the post was that their pitches involve VERY polished, professional presentations, including game tape of the individual player from high school. It's basically a scouting report of the player, showing him and talking about his strengths and weaknesses. Then showing video of players currently on the team, what they looked like in high school, what they look like now, and how the coaching staff can make the same changes in this kid's game. Recruit comments were that the presentation looked amazing, like NBA level stuff, and they were impressed with all the game tape and the way it was broken down to show the player what he can improve at and how the staff will make it happen.
None of that is lying, none of it is telling them they don't have to play D or that they will start immediately. It's just a good sell, showing the recruit that the staff knows what they're doing, they know how to develop him and they've done it before. That's what needs to be in a recruiting pitch.
I have no idea what Painter does, I'm sure he does something similar, but maybe it's not as polished, not as put together, not as impressive. If a recruit sees that same sort of pitch from multiple coaches, but one pitch looks more put together and more professional, they're likely to have more faith in that coaching staff, and they'll feel in good hands committing to them. It probably has an even bigger effect on parents, who want their kids to be well coached and taken care of.
The main gist of the post was that their pitches involve VERY polished, professional presentations, including game tape of the individual player from high school. It's basically a scouting report of the player, showing him and talking about his strengths and weaknesses. Then showing video of players currently on the team, what they looked like in high school, what they look like now, and how the coaching staff can make the same changes in this kid's game. Recruit comments were that the presentation looked amazing, like NBA level stuff, and they were impressed with all the game tape and the way it was broken down to show the player what he can improve at and how the staff will make it happen.
None of that is lying, none of it is telling them they don't have to play D or that they will start immediately. It's just a good sell, showing the recruit that the staff knows what they're doing, they know how to develop him and they've done it before. That's what needs to be in a recruiting pitch.
I have no idea what Painter does, I'm sure he does something similar, but maybe it's not as polished, not as put together, not as impressive. If a recruit sees that same sort of pitch from multiple coaches, but one pitch looks more put together and more professional, they're likely to have more faith in that coaching staff, and they'll feel in good hands committing to them. It probably has an even bigger effect on parents, who want their kids to be well coached and taken care of.
The reality is telling people what they want to hear. A kid like Keion Brooks doesn't want to hear, "if you come to Purdue and work really hard you'll get a chance to see a lot of minutes as a freshman". Rather they want to hear, "come to Purdue, I know you have NBA aspirations and we'll incorporate you in our system that puts you in the best position to make an NBA roster when your time comes". One of those pitches is downright honesty and the other is pandering to someones needs, basically, telling a teenager what he wants to hear. I think Painter is too brutally honest at times with recruits, and recruits in the past have said Painter is that honest, whether it be good or bad. No 5* kids wants to hear MIGHT and PLAY EARLY and IF all in the same sentence. A coach pitching the latter isn't saying, "come to X school, do whatever the hell you want until you declare for the NBA draft". But people who think the schools and programs landing 5* kids are simply telling them, "come to my school and do whatever the hell you want" are surely mistaken. If you think Calipari is going to let a kid come in and do whatever he wants, when he wants on his time and not play defense or give effort and still expect to play, those are the people lying to themselves.
Last edited:
Totally agree. Well said.
There's obviously a line between telling someone what they 'want' to hear and what they 'need' to hear. The best recruiters blur that line depending on what appeals to the kid. 5* recruits are 5* for a reason and most are good enough to start on most teams from Day 1. Sure, some of them are to be avoided due to baggage but Painter backs off them early or never gets involved.
As I often say to my wife, it's not what you say, but how you say it.
And it just differs from the recruit. Like I wouldn't expect Painter to tell someone like Brandon Newman, "hey come to Purdue if you do this, this, and this you'll be playing this and that role as a freshman" because that just isn't realistic. But like you said, there are talented enough freshman who can come in and not only immediately start but also be the teams best players as a freshman. I don't think Painter sells it that way, I think he keeps the same, honest approach with every recruit. Work hard and your opportunity will come. There's nothing wrong with being honest and I actually kind of admire a coach with that kind of honesty, unfortunately it just hasn't translated yet with a lot of top recruits.
Best post in this thread! Thanks Cheeseman. This is to the heart of the matter.
Recruiting has nothing to do with the coach saying you need to work harder (the kids already know this). It's got nothing to do with playing defense (the kids already know this too). In fact Matt Painter's teams regularly are some o the best offensive teams in the country. I think it is the way we approach the kid and how we customize the OV for him and his specific playing style. Here is where we can improve. There are also some academic challenges for Purdue athletes that other schools may not have.
The threads do not become moronic. Some threads are more attractive to moronic posters than others.
Seems to be a common theme anytime Purdue85 enters the room....
Also if Snow's report is true (He's pretty reliable in the midwest) and Painter was pitching to Franklin how he and Newman can play together (despite it being said they don't want to play together) then that would be a tactical error. Don't tell two kids that don't want to play for the same school how they'd fit in scheme wise together (even if they could fit)
I haven't bought that for a while now because it's been known they don't want to play together and we're basing it off of hearsay from people that weren't involved in the recruiting process.
I highly doubt Painter would make such a mistake with it being so well known.
I've also noticed something with this recruiting process the last couple years when we miss out, it seems leading up to the OV the recruit has us in the lead and is very high on us ........ then they come to campus and things start to slide. I am not sure what changes because I can't imagine the pitch to them would change at that point and there shouldn't be any surprises, but is the smell wafting in from bloomington that bad that it is impacting our recruits? /s
5* kids need catered to and need to be told about their NBA career rather than a college career. I think CMP is to honest to sway that way and lie to recruits like a used car salesman. Some aspects I wish he would but that is kind of why I like high character kids. KB is my guy but the situation can only be part business move and majority of it should be a kid being a kid.
I don't disagree that Painter should stop doing what he feels is best for his team based on a report, but I think a lot of people did dismiss the report and didn't want to believe it, simply because IU fans and/or a non-Purdue insider published the report. I think from interviews with Newman in the last week it is pretty clear that he didn't want to play with Franklin and that report was a lot more accurate than people wanted to believe. Both Franklin and Newman have said in interviews that Painter did pitch both players on the idea of playing with one another when it's pretty clear they didn't.
It was reported by this site leading up to the official that Painter would pitch them both playing together...
When it was pointed out that Snow was saying they would not attend the same college, we had multiple premium members of this site some over here saying he didn't know what he was talking about. I believe their wording was that the reporters for this site are more connected than Snow and know more than him.
No one is saying 'Lie' to a kid. But, recruiting, like selling, is an art. There's a lot of nuances to it and part of that is flexing your style to each individual recruit and understanding what they need to 'hear'.
For example, if Painter is telling every recruit that in order to play, they have to make defense a priority (not saying he says this, just using it as an example), then I can see that turning off some kids, especially knowing the NBA drafts guys who can score, defense is secondary. It's not coincidence that a lot of Purdue's great defenders were offensively challenged.
For every player you name that was great on defense, bad on offense, I can name one that was great at both.
I believe it's a lie when you tell these kids their NBA career before they actually make it. I could sell my son anything and he would believe it. If you don't think these guys lie just refer to coach K with the Carter recruitment and he was a top 10 draft pick regardless.
It's not a lie when you say, "Come to school X, I'll do everything in my power to put you in the best position to make it to the NBA" vs "come to Purdue, I know you have NBA aspirations and if you work hard and give great effort you'll earn minutes as a freshman". Sell that your son without any school names attached and ask him what school he would prefer.
Wendell Carter was a lottery pick who is making more money than he can count.
- Status
Similar threads
