I don't care if people want to use gloves either, but washing your hands is no worse of an alternative for the normal person. People feel a false sense of security with gloves.
Let the great COVID experiment begin !
- Thread starter MJ-79Boiler
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I don't care if people want to use gloves either, but washing your hands is no worse of an alternative for the normal person. People feel a false sense of security with gloves.
What if its 18 months for a vaccine? Do we just keep waiting? I am putting more responsibility in the hands of individuals than many here, I guess that is "cavalier". The livelihoods of more people every week are being destroyed. Millions of people without purpose vs thousands of deaths, what is worse? I don't know the answer.
Full stop.
I did not say it was worth waiting. Go back and read what I wrote. To run around and dismiss additional infections and deaths the way that you and hunk and others is ridiculous. It is a trade-off, a risk that we as a society are apparently willing to take in order to open the economy back up. But I wonder how many people running around cavalierly saying "Old sick people are going to die anyway" don't have any family or anyone who could potentially be affected by this.
What is cavalier is that you and other don't seem to give one shit about people who will die. You can make money and restore purpose. Death is permanent.
Go back and read my prior posts. From my understanding, the stay-at-home orders are just flattening the curve, preventing deaths due to a lack of medical care, not decreasing infections or deaths long term. If that is true, the number of people contracting the virus is going to be the same, all we are doing is moving the day it happens. And I am putting responsibility on individuals to make their own choices, not because I don't care about them or don't care if someone dies, but because I believe they know their own situations better than anyone else and will make a better, more informed decision than someone in D.C. or their state capital.
... and if you move the day it happens, and a treatment or vaccine is found between now and then, the number of deaths and infections will go down regardless of personal responsibility. E.g.: People need to shop for food; if more people in the general public are infected, asymptomatic or mild symptom carriers, there are more people out there to infect that person who need to go shop for food, and thus it is more likely they will become infected. But I suppose you'd stand there and wag your finger at that single, older person and say, "You wouldn't have gotten infected if you'd been more responsible!"
I'm glad you've dumbed this down so much that you can be comfortable with your "personal responsibility" premise, but it's cavalier. Essentially, you're making the same argument that's similarly implied by anti-vaxxers. "I or my kids won't get sick, so if you get sick, that's your problem."
I'm in Indiana where we are currently in Stage 2 of 5 which I think I'm okay with especially since they've kept the hardest hit areas at Stage 1 for a bit longer. Seeing just how disgusting the crowds at Menard's, Target, etc have been the past few weekends makes me think this is likely going to spread no matter what.
What I'm nervous about is how quickly they intend to progress to Stage 3 (5/24), Stage 4 (6/14) and the new normal Stage 5 (7/4).
Another disturbing thought that I hope doesn't influence decision makers is that dead people can't vote...
We need a treatment or vaccine ASAP. I want to believe we'll Leronlimab or another treatment by June with the Oxford vaccine starting to deploy in September but deep down I just don't see it happening. Regardless, I plan to keep myself and my family in the Stage1/2 range for as long as we can.
What I'm nervous about is how quickly they intend to progress to Stage 3 (5/24), Stage 4 (6/14) and the new normal Stage 5 (7/4).
Another disturbing thought that I hope doesn't influence decision makers is that dead people can't vote...
We need a treatment or vaccine ASAP. I want to believe we'll Leronlimab or another treatment by June with the Oxford vaccine starting to deploy in September but deep down I just don't see it happening. Regardless, I plan to keep myself and my family in the Stage1/2 range for as long as we can.
Curious - how old are you and do you have any health conditions such obesity, diabetes, or high blood pressure?
The virus can’t be isolated regionally. A flare up in one place is just going to make its way to everywhere else
This is a crisis that requires true national coordination and cooperation and in that sense we are failing.
I don’t know who will end up scoring political points out of this, but at the end of the day we all lose
This is a crisis that requires true national coordination and cooperation and in that sense we are failing.
I don’t know who will end up scoring political points out of this, but at the end of the day we all lose
You were lucky. I know healthcare workers who were told to use the same mask for a week and the same gloves for the day. Still not buying it (have nurses in the family), but it's your choice.
35 with a wife and 2 kids. I'm overweight but could go run 3 miles right now if I wanted...probably more if chased lol.
For death, probably but I have seen no statistics dealing with significant illness, hospitalization and potential recurrent issues. Perhaps you might provide such before writing off the idea that all that happens is you get the flu and then go back to work in a couple of days.
Get this: some people actually care or at least empathize with others... including the old, fat, and sick.
I'm not afraid of contracting it...part of me wishes to get it and be done. I just don't want to give it to my parents, in-laws or even people I don't know that are susceptible.
I'm sympathetic to both sides because I know I'd probably feel differently if my livelihood was at stake. For us, this is only an inconvenience so we'll suck it up and do our part to help until there is more of a consensus on what is best.
Unfortunately, it hasn't been proven that getting it prevents you from getting it again.
And that is the correct answer for the non-selfish a holes.
I've seen this as well. From what I recall those in S Korea (or maybe it was China) that retested positive weren't conclusively contagious either but that was a month ago which is an eternity right now in studies and learnings.
The consensus here is still that you do get some period of immunity but its something I'll look into again before asking to be infected.
Same here - my parents are both in their 80's. I've been buying their groceries and dropping them in their garage for the past 6 weeks. We then stand outside their house about 15 feet away and talk with them through a window screen for an hour or so. They've only left their home to go to doctor visits. I've told them to they shouldn't be going anywhere until there's a vaccine. They're good with it.
Thanks.
I realize that it's not your hospitalization table but either I don't understand it, my math is far worse than I thought it was, or the graph is far from correct.
In looking at population per age it seems that there are approximately the following
0 - 4 = 23m
5 - 17 = 47m
18 - 49 = 138.2m
50 - 64 = 63.2m
65 + = 52.4m
The stats are for hospitalization / 100,000
Therefore per age group there would be the following statistical groups (population/100,000)
0 - 4 = 230
5 - 17 = 470
18 - 49 = 1382
50 - 64 = 632
65 + = 524
Applying the appropriate hospitalization rates to the statistical groups (I used 16 for the combined 65+ which would be higher than the separate groups being broken down since the lower rate is a larger population portion but to be safe I went high) there would be the following number of expected actual hospitalizations from the charts
0 - 4 = 69
5 - 17 = 47
18 - 49 = 3455
50 - 64 = 4677
65 + = 8384
For the total expected number of hospitalizations being 16,632
However as of May 7 the actual total of hospitalizations has been 135,176 (Link)
I wasn't a math major and may well be in error in my computations so I certainly invite that any mistakes be pointed out.
Puzzling...
So you're advocating for locking down until there is a vaccine. Why are you arguing that you aren't? Otherwise you are in favor of killing people by your logic. Good Lord, I am surprised you can see us peasants down here from your moral high ground you assume to have.
You claim I am too cavalier, you are too authoritarian. Authoritarians have been responsible for far more death than this pandemic will ever be.
No, I am not. I am arguing for a little bit of understanding from you that opening early WILL result in more deaths, not the same number of deaths accelerated.
this isn’t ripping the bandaid off. This is pulling out stitches.
Recognize that when we open - as we should - people will die because we made that decision, not because they lack personal responsibility. That is the irony of your “moral high ground” comment. You want to dismiss those deaths as people who are too dumb to save themselves or people who would die anyway.
Maybe when you finally realize that, you’ll stop being so callous and cavalier about other people’s lives. But that’s probably giving you more credit than you deserve.
Who is dismissing deaths? I am not. You are claiming I am. You are stating something that isn't fact as fact. You do not know that the death number changes as people stay at home. I am giving people the personal responsibility because in general those people will make the right decision to social distance, wear masks if they want, etc. There is no need for the lockdown, especially at this point, as it is causing more people to do things they normally would not. Look at Michigan and Wisconsin as examples.
I suppose the person with 1 month to live will die from their stage 4 pancreatic cancer instead of getting listed as a COVID death your way. But you saved a life, right?
hong kong flu of '68-69
been asking around for comparison,
but not many seem to recall it much?
primarily, there were some school closures due to absenteeism/illness.
~100k u.s. deaths, mostly ages 65+
been asking around for comparison,
but not many seem to recall it much?
primarily, there were some school closures due to absenteeism/illness.
~100k u.s. deaths, mostly ages 65+
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Ahhhh... now I understand the problem.
Perhaps some mention that the graph posted was based upon circumstances as they existed during the timeframe from March 1 through March 30 might have been relevant and of value.
C'mon, now....
So having entered the world of statistical rabbitholes it seemed relevant to expand actual statistics to see what the future could hold.
As of May 7:
Covid US hospitalizations to date - 135,176
Covid US cases to date - 1,291, 495
US Covid case hospitalization rate - 10.5%
Approx US population - 330,000,000
Herd Immunity level - 70%
Number US cases to achieve HI - 231,000,000
Proportionate US hospitalizations - 24,255,000
Graph showing number of new cases compared against number of tests given.
https://covidtracking.com/static/55d468ec2af9325aa9844f8c3aa7dda8/f3583/john-hopkins-chart.png
https://covidtracking.com/static/55d468ec2af9325aa9844f8c3aa7dda8/f3583/john-hopkins-chart.png
Can you share more of the context around this graph? What population is being tested, (college, town, state, etc..) can you link where it came from, etc..
Not suggesting it's not valid, but without context it is meaningless. Even a 12% hit rate is high when you consider that 1.) we have been shutdown & and 2.) the tests are not good at catching the virus outside of the most symptomatic time period. (And that is one of the major problems - catching early)
I've always said that I had to work with the creator of Dilbert somewhere along the line. And I've been to those meetings.
Depends on what set of numbers your eyes are set on. Deaths/Overall cases tested negative will likely maintain at .4 to .5%.
I believe this will be a HUGE nothing burger by the the end of the summer and into fall. I recognize this COVID-19 was serious, yet it will die off vs getting more virulent.
Why?
(Actual inquiry, btw)
I hope that is the case but really see no actual reason to think it will be.
I am aware, however, of a currently unreviewed pre- release study indicating the disease-induced herd immunity level for Covid-19 is substantially lower than the classical herd immunity level
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How can anyone CREDIBLY say 80,000 deaths and counting or 5,000,000 cases by the Fall is anything but an unmitigated disaster ! (more deaths in 2-3 months than Vietnam - let that sink in for a second.)
I wonder if your position will change when it affects people you know.
Cause the 80,000 deaths are pushed on Doctors to write those cause of death certificates when the reality is there are underlying causes in majority of those cases. Hospital Adminstrations are sucking the teets of the money stream. Do you honestly think they want to see their revenues dry up or keep the $$$’s flowing? Sign that death certificate as COVID-19!
https://justthenews.com/politics-po...searchers-challenge-uns-who-cdc-and-dr-faucis
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Not proven yet, but it's quite possible that the small percentage of otherwise younger healthy folks who crump from Covid might have something to do with Galectin.
This is categorically false, and I am not one of the leftists on here.
What is your explanation to this article...specifically the 5th paragraph regarding Illinois top heath officials classifications?
https://fee.org/articles/physicians-say-hospitals-are-pressuring-er-docs-to-list-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/
Bottom line is classification brings more $$$.
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I clicked that link and it showed the two businessmen from Bakersfield whose video is based on faulty statistical analysis and their desire to restore lost revenue. I closed the window. That video was garbage debunked repeatedly by reputable medical professionals and mathematicians several weeks ago. You going to post “Plandemic” on here next?
