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And the starters for the international trip will be ...?

Smokestack91

Smokestack91

Nov 19, 2017
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(or at least the first game). Edey won't be there, and it looked like Morton was hobbling, so I'll assume he won't play the first game (but I have no inside information). This is just based on prior performance and today's scrimmage.
  1. Smith - but Jones looked good.
  2. Loyer
  3. Colvin/Heide/Waddell? - no idea, but this would be my prediction order.
  4. Gillis
  5. TKR - I don't know how you keep him off the floor.
There is a lot of talent there. Heck Furst will probably be all-B1G before he's done. But that's the way I see it.
 
Smokestack91 said:
(or at least the first game). Edey won't be there, and it looked like Morton was hobbling, so I'll assume he won't play the first game (but I have no inside information). This is just based on prior performance and today's scrimmage.
  1. Smith - but Jones looked good.
  2. Loyer
  3. Colvin/Heide/Waddell? - no idea, but this would be my prediction order.
  4. Gillis
  5. TKR - I don't know how you keep him off the floor.
There is a lot of talent there. Heck Furst will probably be all-B1G before he's done. But that's the way I see it.
Click to expand...
What were your impressions of Heide and Colvin today?
 
Smith
Loyer
Heide/Colvin
TKR
Furst

That’s my guess for starters but I’m sure everyone will get major minutes because rotations will fluctuate from game to game. With Morton being out as of right now it’s a toss up between Heide and Colvin at the 3 but you have to assume Colvin helps play the 2 behind Loyer so that might give Heide the upper hand. If TKR is ready to play the 4 let him roll with it and see what happens. All due respect to Gillis but TKR brings a lot more to the table. Gillis will get his minutes still. Lance Jones will be a factor even though he wasn’t listed as a starter.
 
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Do Dah Day said:
Smith - 100%
Loyer - 100%
Heide - Barely ahead of Colvin, but an upper classmen wins at this stage
TKR - has to get all the minutes he can at the 4
Furst - no contest
Click to expand...
I can see that, but as of today it appears that Colvin maybe plays the 2 behind Fletcher. I think he gets a decent amount of minutes, but that Matt brings him around slow where he peaks in the tourney. Again and even more so Matt has some variety of players for different situations. Cam got some boards today, but that important piece of the pie won't be as important in that position when Zach returns and Trey and Zack are on the court together. Then another need may be more important...

FWIW, offensively I see a lot of Myles game old school and I like it.
 
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I think I'm higher on Jones' potential impact than most, but if he is best perimeter defender and can flourish as a support piece on offense on lower volume, it's hard not to see the 5th year SR start as 3rd guard out of the gate and take Morton's spot....He will just likely slide over to PG when Braden needs a rest. By the end of the year Myles will hopefully be knocking on the door as the 3rd perimeter starter.

For the trip lineup I'll go with.....

Braden
Jones
Fletch
TKR
Furst

Painter historically plays 3 guards and honestly hasn't had many true SF type guys on his roster to play on the wing at the 3. It will be interesting to see how Heide, Wadell, and Catchings next year (fingers crossed) play in that role now that some true talent is being assembled there.
 
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Starters. Rotational
Smith- Jones
Loyer- Colvin/Jones
Heide- Colvin/Waddell
TKR- Gillis- Furst
Furst- Berg- TKR
 
tjreese said:
I can see that, but as of today it appears that Colvin maybe plays the 2 behind Fletcher. I think he gets a decent amount of minutes, but that Matt brings him around slow where he peaks in the tourney. Again and even more so Matt has some variety of players for different situations. Cam got some boards today, but that important piece of the pie won't be as important in that position when Zach returns and Trey and Zack are on the court together. Then another need may be more important...

FWIW, offensively I see a lot of Myles game old school and I like it.
Click to expand...
I still don't know if tkr can play alongside edey...tkr was really good in the post today....but he won't have those opportunities with edey here...heide's rebounding then becomes more important when paired with edey at the 4....as Painter said in the postgame interview, playing time will depend on who can complement edey the best....as good as tkr is, I don't know if that's his best lineup with edey...might be heide at the 4....
 
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Starters for international trip don't really matter. Painter himself said during the interview, that the guys that compliment Zach the most will play next year.

I'm sure guys like Smith and Loyer will get their normal run and maybe we'll glean something from the play of Jones and who starts at the 3, but I'm not sure we'll learn much from the rotation at the 4/5 without Zach on the trip because he's going to get 30+ minutes of the 80. It's almost like we'll be practicing for those 10 minutes per game when Zach isn't in the game.
 
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Thadoc1 said:
I still don't know if tkr can play alongside edey...tkr was really good in the post today....but he won't have those opportunities with edey here...heide's rebounding then becomes more important when paired with edey at the 4....as Painter said in the postgame interview, playing time will depend on who can complement edey the best....as good as tkr is, I don't know if that's his best lineup with edey...might be heide at the 4....
Click to expand...
well yeah, when Zach is on the court different things become more important and that will be for most of the game. They were split up yesterday without Zach and so playing that way and what we will see with Zach could be a bit different. I can't speculate who might be the best to fit into the team when Zach is playing. It may be Cam, but he was all 3 yesterday and so I'm guessing he has spent time as a 3 before yesterday and I'm not sure Matt wants more at the four unless Mason can transition to a 3 which he did put the ball on the deck...but I'm guessing Mason, Trey and Caleb are at the 4 spot. Then Cam, Brian and Ethan at the 3 with Myles "possible" for some minutes. Fletcher, Colvin, Jones at the 2. Braden at the 1 with Jones backing him up. This in theory should Cam get over his rust and be solid and Myles grow in D mostly the ability to have some athletes at the 2 and 3 at the same time, but in time could also have them at the 3 (Myles) and 4(Cam). Too early to know for sure, but we know Myles has spent time at the 2 and Cam at the 3 and so I'm guessing those spots may be the intended...
 
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Smokestack91 said:
I don't disagree with this, but it is very hard to wrap my head around Mason not starting.
Click to expand...
I know there's a long way to go before the start of the season but Mason's broken nose and Ethan's hamstring aren't helping those guys. The good news is that they probably need minutes less than anyone else on the roster so if they play less on the European tour it's likely not the worst thing.

I've said it a bunch of times but will say it once more, Mason has to consistently shoot above 40% from three and Ethan has to shoot 35%+ or they're in real danger of playing much smaller roles. I'm probably as big of a fan / advocate for those two guys as anyone but because they have limited ceilings they have to shoot well to raise their floors.
 
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*Shockerrr* said:
Smith
Loyer
Heide/Colvin
TKR
Furst

That’s my guess for starters but I’m sure everyone will get major minutes because rotations will fluctuate from game to game. With Morton being out as of right now it’s a toss up between Heide and Colvin at the 3 but you have to assume Colvin helps play the 2 behind Loyer so that might give Heide the upper hand. If TKR is ready to play the 4 let him roll with it and see what happens. All due respect to Gillis but TKR brings a lot more to the table. Gillis will get his minutes still. Lance Jones will be a factor even though he wasn’t listed as a starter.
Click to expand...
TKR brings more offense to the table.
What else?
Gillis better defensively, rebounding, setting picks and doing the little things.
I like TKR and he will be a big factor, but I wouldn't say he brings more to the table.
 
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Schmedly_Whiplash said:
TKR brings more offense to the table.
What else?
Gillis better defensively, rebounding, setting picks and doing the little things.
I like TKR and he will be a big factor, but I wouldn't say he brings more to the table.
Click to expand...
I’d think Gillis gets reduced mins this year and TKR plays more. TKR showed a lot more promise on offense, but couldn’t tell on defense yet. It seems the game slowed down a bit for him, so hopefully on defense he doesn’t pick up the quick fouls he did last year and can stay in longer. Rebounding…I’d say that’s a wash. Gillis has avg 4 for his career in 22 mins on avg. we only have one season to go off for TKR but he avg 2 in 11 mins a game. I would think TKR would have an advantage there, although it’s tough to get boards when you have Zach and Braden haha.
I agree with Mason doin the little things, but wouldn’t surprise me to see his minutes reduced this year and same with Morton (I think his should significantly decrease by end of year if we want to go far in the tourney)
 
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Schmedly_Whiplash said:
TKR brings more offense to the table.
What else?
Gillis better defensively, rebounding, setting picks and doing the little things.
I like TKR and he will be a big factor, but I wouldn't say he brings more to the table.
Click to expand...
Let me re-word that “potentially brings more to the table” with his size and scoring threat. This isn’t a hatred towards Gillis but I’m sure TKR would set picks and average just as many or more rebounds if he got Gillis’ minutes. Gillis has earned the right to start over the years by doing his job and hitting open 3s but let’s not forget Furst was starting ahead of him at times so the 4 position should be wide open and earned. How many times did Purdue struggle to score outside of Edey last year?…lots! I’m not saying Gillis doesn’t deserve to start because his toughness and shooting ability is a key piece to the team but if TKR has shown great improvements at all levels like people have said why not give him a shot? Time after time the team showed they needed more punch outside of Edey so if TKR ends up starting at the 4 he earned it!
 
DwaynePurvis00 said:
I’d think Gillis gets reduced mins this year and TKR plays more. TKR showed a lot more promise on offense, but couldn’t tell on defense yet. It seems the game slowed down a bit for him, so hopefully on defense he doesn’t pick up the quick fouls he did last year and can stay in longer. Rebounding…I’d say that’s a wash. Gillis has avg 4 for his career in 22 mins on avg. we only have one season to go off for TKR but he avg 2 in 11 mins a game. I would think TKR would have an advantage there, although it’s tough to get boards when you have Zach and Braden haha.
I agree with Mason doin the little things, but wouldn’t surprise me to see his minutes reduced this year and same with Morton (I think his should significantly decrease by end of year if we want to go far in the tourney)
Click to expand...
A couple of things I found interesting in the interview after the scrimmage.
  • Painter made it clear that this is Zach's team and whoever compliments him the best is going to play.
  • He mentioned we were 22-1 and it looked like we were okay but then our weaknesses became apparent near the end of the year.
The first bullet would lead me to believe that guys like Gillis and Morton are still in a strong position for minutes, however, the second bullet may be an indication that Painter believes we need more from guys not named Edey.

I believe Painter's instincts will be to go with guys like Morton and Gillis but it may be that the disappointing end to last season will be enough for him to make some changes.

What will be interesting to watch is that we'll win 25+ games no matter how he plays it. IMO Edey is that good. But just like last year it may not be apparent that the best combination isn't on the floor in March until its too late. Should be fun to watch.
 
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*Shockerrr* said:
Let me re-word that “potentially brings more to the table” with his size and scoring threat. This isn’t a hatred towards Gillis but I’m sure TKR would set picks and average just as many or more rebounds if he got Gillis’ minutes. Gillis has earned the right to start over the years by doing his job and hitting open 3s but let’s not forget Furst was starting ahead of him at times so the 4 position should be wide open and earned. How many times did Purdue struggle to score outside of Edey last year?…lots! I’m not saying Gillis doesn’t deserve to start because his toughness and shooting ability is a key piece to the team but if TKR has shown great improvements at all levels like people have said why not give him a shot? Time after time the team showed they needed more punch outside of Edey so if TKR ends up starting at the 4 he earned it!
Click to expand...
and I don't disagree that he will be a much larger factor this year. And that MAY reduce Gillis minutes. We certainly needed more shooters at the end of last season.
But at the same time Smith/Loyer/Heide/Colvin will all score more than they did last year and that may lesson the need for another shooter and may shift priorities to other tasks. Like Defense and the little things that make good teams good that go beyond scoring.
I don't think for a minute that TKR can replicate the unmovable picks that Gillis sets. Probably ever but certainly no this year. He may match or better the rebounds if he's totally engaged, certainly has the extra size. Does not seem to have quick reactions defensively, does have length and will provide more rim protection for sure. He did seem to contest Furst better at the scrimmage, nice war there that is going to be good for both guys.
He had a long way to go defensively and that is the primary reason for my thinking.
 
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Do Dah Day said:
Smith - 100%
Loyer - 100%
Heide - Barely ahead of Colvin, but an upper classmen wins at this stage
TKR - has to get all the minutes he can at the 4
Furst - no contest
Click to expand...
I don't think Smith is a shoe in. He might be just for now, but Jones is every bit as good from my angle and I was pretty close Saturday.
 
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lovelyblonde said:
I don't think Smith is a shoe in. He might be just for now, but Jones is every bit as good from my angle and I was pretty close Saturday.
Click to expand...
Well that's good news because Braden Smith engineered the team last season in an impressive way, before he ran out of gas. I'm looking forward to the senior Jones and sophomore Smith duo. Btfu!
 
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SCBoiler1 said:
The first bullet would lead me to believe that guys like Gillis and Morton are still in a strong position for minutes, however, the second bullet may be an indication that Painter believes we need more from guys not named Edey.

I believe Painter's instincts will be to go with guys like Morton and Gillis but it may be that the disappointing end to last season will be enough for him to make some changes.
Click to expand...

Lol. Yep, you are correct on the first. His formula works during Dec-Feb15.....so he is not changing. Eliminate mistakes regardless of the potential offensive explosion he might get get by developing more athletic guys. So look for M & G to get minutes. Not that that is bad, as likely another B10 championship. But then there is March.

I believe the second ppg when I see it.
 
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Schnelk said:
Well that's good news because Braden Smith engineered the team last season in an impressive way, before he ran out of gas. I'm looking forward to the senior Jones and sophomore Smith duo. Btfu!
Click to expand...


I am so ready for bball already, even as dissapointed as I was with that first round exit.
 
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lovelyblonde said:
I don't think Smith is a shoe in. He might be just for now, but Jones is every bit as good from my angle and I was pretty close Saturday.
Click to expand...
Smith has a year on Jones in knowing the offense and plays very well with edey. Wonder what Jones looks like when running point with edey…but unless Braden regresses, I am confident he will start all year.
 
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lovelyblonde said:
I don't think Smith is a shoe in. He might be just for now, but Jones is every bit as good from my angle and I was pretty close Saturday.
Click to expand...
Braden will start. Matt watched him for a year and was pretty high on him. Lance did well Saturday and he does some things that are going to help Purdue. I think there are times we will see both on the court at the same time. I don’t know, but hope Lance is a good FT shooter. What are the attributes you like in Lance because he showed some things I liked
 
tjreese said:
Braden will start. Matt watched him for a year and was pretty high on him. Lance did well Saturday and he does some things that are going to help Purdue. I think there are times we will see both on the court at the same time. I don’t know, but hope Lance is a good FT shooter. What are the attributes you like in Lance because he showed some things I liked
Click to expand...
His FT % for his career has been very inconsistent. Hopefully we get the senior version of his ft shooting:

63% freshman
71% soph
57% (ouch) junior
76% senior

www.espn.com

Lance Jones - Purdue Boilermakers Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Purdue Boilermakers Guard Lance Jones on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
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Dryfly88 said:
His FT % for his career has been very inconsistent. Hopefully we get the senior version of his ft shooting:

63% freshman
71% soph
57% (ouch) junior
76% senior

www.espn.com

Lance Jones - Purdue Boilermakers Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Purdue Boilermakers Guard Lance Jones on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
Click to expand...
You wish it were higher, because you would like him to also handle the ball if pressure at the end of game. Course I'm thinking Fletcher struggled at the line last year as well. So many questions with a summer for all to improve and three new people not counting Berg in Lance, Myles and Cam that are relatively unknown. Perhaps Fletcher improves at the line and Myles is solid in front of the crowds...or maybe it is Cam???
 
Smokestack91 said:
I don't disagree with this, but it is very hard to wrap my head around Mason not starting.
Click to expand...

I had added on the Boiler diehards page, that if anyone has any pre conceived ideas for starters, you might have another opinion after watching Saturdays scrimmage. Heide, Colvin and Jones looked pretty good. Berg is still not in full swing and I heard this was his first actual practice type thing, since his injury ( Don't quote me on that)
 
tjreese said:
Braden will start. Matt watched him for a year and was pretty high on him. Lance did well Saturday and he does some things that are going to help Purdue. I think there are times we will see both on the court at the same time. I don’t know, but hope Lance is a good FT shooter. What are the attributes you like in Lance because he showed some things I liked
Click to expand...

Well for starters, I love how him and Smith are both so quick . I felt everything we have seen with Smith, was duplicated in Jones. If one was going someplace, the other was right there. Jones can drive and get around defenders when needed. Was glad I was able to see Jones as I didn't know what we were getting with him. Now I am at ease. I do hope he can shoot Ft's.
 
lovelyblonde said:
Well for starters, I love how him and Smith are both so quick . I felt everything we have seen with Smith, was duplicated in Jones. If one was going someplace, the other was right there. Jones can drive and get around defenders when needed. Was glad I was able to see Jones as I didn't know what we were getting with him. Now I am at ease. I do hope he can shoot Ft's.
Click to expand...
A couple of differences in that Lance took a couple of bad shots and let's say they are equal for simplicity. As a coach are you going with the younger player, or the one that won't be here next year or the year after?
 
tjreese said:
A couple of differences in that Lance took a couple of bad shots and let's say they are equal for simplicity. As a coach are you going with the younger player, or the one that won't be here next year or the year after?
Click to expand...
I think they both will play a lot.
 
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lovelyblonde said:
I think they both will play a lot.
Click to expand...
no problem with that, but thought you were implying that Lance might start and for at least the one reason I stated I believe Braden starts in Europe and most likely all year. Yes, if Lance is always like Saturday he will get minutes and more importantly be very helpful to Purdue. I hope Saturday other than a couple of bad shots is what we see all year from Lance.
 
tjreese said:
no problem with that, but thought you were implying that Lance might start and for at least the one reason I stated I believe Braden starts in Europe and most likely all year. Yes, if Lance is always like Saturday he will get minutes and more importantly be very helpful to Purdue. I hope Saturday other than a couple of bad shots is what we see all year from Lance.
Click to expand...
I would bet Braden starts all year too, but I hope he fixes this whole fade away thing that he was doing while he was shooting on Saturday…which he went 2/9. Making it more difficult on himself and, while I really like him as a player, isn’t that good enough of a shooter that should be fading to the left or right every time. Maybe it was just a one time thing for that scrimmage, but he was doing it in warmups…so who knows. Hopefully if he does continue to do it, it doesn’t impact shooting much for him.
 
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DwaynePurvis00 said:
I would bet Braden starts all year too, but I hope he fixes this whole fade away thing that he was doing while he was shooting on Saturday…which he went 2/9. Making it more difficult on himself and, while I really like him as a player, isn’t that good enough of a shooter that should be fading to the left or right every time. Maybe it was just a one time thing for that scrimmage, but he was doing it in warmups…so who knows. Hopefully if he does continue to do it, it doesn’t impact shooting much for him.
Click to expand...
That is a very legitimate point IMO. FWIW, this is an area (shooting mechanics) that I wish the coaches were more disciplined. I don't recall him fading away last year or in high school, but he may have floated left and right before...I can't recall. Maybe he got a bit sloppy trying to play loose? I don't think 2/9 will happen very often for him. I've mentioned before and many in the past have understood the mental aspect of shooting, but mostly along the lines of confidence...which only happens through prior success. Still, the mindset of shooting as a last option as opposed to thinking shoot all the time is different in that it has to flip in an instant when you are a pass first guard. If Purdue wants Braden to look to score more this year, he must adjust his mind a bit IMO.
 
lovelyblonde said:
I don't think Smith is a shoe in. He might be just for now, but Jones is every bit as good from my angle and I was pretty close Saturday.
Click to expand...
But he's not a pg. He played ok there, but he's clearly not the distributor that Smith is.
Highly unlikely that he's as good at feeding the post under pressure. Job #1 at Purdue with Edey......
I liked what I saw, he's going to help us and Smith.
But he's not going to play ahead of Brandon.
 
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