All right. Does this constitute a red flag?

[TheCainer]

From reading the discussion on the Farewell to Arms topic, I thought this might be a good test case for what constitutes a situation for taking pre-emptive action.

This guy is a Lafayette area resident who is fed up with having his drivers license revoked for not paying all of his traffic fines and in protest he walks around with a rifle in public. He claims he is doing it to protect himself and also the copies of his Bible and the Constitution he apparently carries around in his backpack. He claims to be a "sovereign man", whatever that entails. Is this guy unstable? Should we be alarmed by his actions?

The ISP says he can legally do this as long as he doesn't threaten anyone with the rifle. Well, I can tell you that I would feel threatened if I encountered him on the sidewalk, especially if I didn't see him coming in order to avoid him. Of course, that act of feeling threatened also opens up another door it seems. If I am, for example, a citizen with a concealed carry permit, do I have the right to confront him and stand my ground if I feel threatened? I don't know his intentions and in my mind anyone who carries around a rifle like that in the general public is a little bit loonie to begin with. If he looks at me wrong or makes some uncomplimentary remark to me, do I have the right to draw on him, and heaven forbid, shoot him if I felt it necessary? Might we have 2 people (in this case) popping shots at each other in a public setting not knowing where those rounds end up Where does this gun rights issue cross the line and endanger everyone's public safety?

Link

 

[BBG]

Is he drawing on anyone? No? Then you're just muddying the waters and hence the problem. If he was walking around pointing it at people it would be one thing, but just HAVING one isn't a threat. Is it loaded? Is he breaking any laws?

The other problem with your analogy is that you're basing threat off of him saying something to you as opposed to an actual action. I have a conceal permit and wouldn't think twice about this guy unless he was waving his gun around pointing it at people.

Sorry but your hyperbolic argument is full of holes and is just a bad analogy to try and make your argument. I mean are you threatened by a guy just carrying a gun and Bible? If we were all judged on what we MIGHT do then all of us would be in prison. You MIGHT run someone over on the way home from work, should revoke your car simply because you MIGHT kill someone? In theory your analogy can be used for the way people drive too. There are many drivers in my area that drive in such a way that it is threatening to others.. and on top of it someone can get behind the wheel at 16.

Ultimately this is a fruitless article because neither side is going to budge on it's stance. No matter how many times it is argued...

This post was edited on 6/12 2:23 PM by BBG

 

[Beeazlebub]

Originally posted by BBG:
Is he drawing on anyone? No? Then you're just muddying the waters and hence the problem. If he was walking around pointing it at people it would be one thing, but just HAVING one isn't a threat. Is it loaded? Is he breaking any laws?

The other problem with your analogy is that you're basing threat off of him saying something to you as opposed to an actual action. I have a conceal permit and wouldn't think twice about this guy unless he was waving his gun around pointing it at people.

Sorry but your hyperbolic argument is full of holes and is just a bad analogy to try and make your argument. I mean are you threatened by a guy just carrying a gun and Bible? If we were all judged on what we MIGHT do then all of us would be in prison. You MIGHT run someone over on the way home from work, should revoke your car simply because you MIGHT kill someone?

This post was edited on 6/12 2:16 PM by BBG

Just how stable is a person who walks IN THE ROAD? He claimed he was clipped by a mirror in a hit and run a few days ago, so how much would it take for him to lose his shit and start shooting?

This situation is blatantly wrong in so many ways, and the fact that it is legal for him to brandish a rifle while walking in the road is indicative of how bizarre our gun laws have become.

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by BBG:
Is he drawing on anyone? No? Then you're just muddying the waters and hence the problem. If he was walking around pointing it at people it would be one thing, but just HAVING one isn't a threat. Is it loaded? Is he breaking any laws?

The other problem with your analogy is that you're basing threat off of him saying something to you as opposed to an actual action. I have a conceal permit and wouldn't think twice about this guy unless he was waving his gun around pointing it at people.

Sorry but your hyperbolic argument is full of holes and is just a bad analogy to try and make your argument. I mean are you threatened by a guy just carrying a gun and Bible? If we were all judged on what we MIGHT do then all of us would be in prison. You MIGHT run someone over on the way home from work, should revoke your car simply because you MIGHT kill someone?

This post was edited on 6/12 2:16 PM by BBG

Just how stable is a person who walks IN THE ROAD? He claimed he was clipped by a mirror in a hit and run a few days ago, so how much would it take for him to lose his shit and start shooting?

This situation is blatantly wrong in so many ways, and the fact that it is legal for him to brandish a rifle while walking in the road is indicative of how bizarre our gun laws have become.

My point really is that this is a slippery slope because people not qualified to label someone as "unstable" are trying to just that. The gun laws are fine, if they were enforced like they are supposed to be anyway. If anything this shows how bizarre PEOPLE have gotten.

This post was edited on 6/12 2:28 PM by BBG

 

[kescwi]

These type of people, and those who champion them, are the ones who will ruin it for all of us. This guy needs to be laughed at not defended, he needs to be ignored not taken seriously.

How is this a protest?

 

[Beeazlebub]

Video from WLFI

Bible + Weapon + one crazy sob = what could go wrong?

http://wlfi.com/2014/06/03/lpd-man-allowed-to-carry-assault-rifle-along-sagamore-parkway/

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by kescwi:
These type of people, and those who champion them, are the ones who will ruin it for all of us. This guy needs to be laughed at not defended, he needs to be ignored not taken seriously.

How is this a protest?

After reading more on it, it sounds like he is simply doing it for the attention.

 

[kescwi]

I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by kescwi:
I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

True story on all counts. What is the going value for a Bible? Anyone know?

 

[BoilerGrad02]

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

True story on all counts. What is the going value for a Bible? Anyone know?

You can ask any number of Christian organizations and they will send you one free of charge.

 

[Bill4411]

Well at least the Miller's moved to Las Vegas.

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by BoilerGrad02:

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

True story on all counts. What is the going value for a Bible? Anyone know?

You can ask any number of Christian organizations and they will send you one free of charge.

True or I can grab one from a hotel on my many travels.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

True story on all counts. What is the going value for a Bible? Anyone know?

Hey man, if it's a Bible you're looking for, I've got the goods. The good stuff, too - none of that King James with all those thees and thousand. Nah, I got the real goods. It'll cost you, but I can get you pure uncut Greek and Hebrew.

meet me behind the church tonight at midnight...

 

[Stairwayto7]

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
These type of people, and those who champion them, are the ones who will ruin it for all of us. This guy needs to be laughed at not defended, he needs to be ignored not taken seriously.

How is this a protest?

After reading more on it, it sounds like he is simply doing it for the attention.

Most of the open carry people do it for attention. Because of my training whenever I see a person carrying openly I immediately assess them and decide whether they are a threat or not. They never are, they just want people to know that that they are armed. I always just laugh because then it just makes it that much easier for them to be disarmed. The rifle guys are the worst, because a rifle slung on your back takes forever to place into operation. Open carry goes with the saying "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by pastorjoeboggs:

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
I agree and if I had to guess the reason he bought the gun in the first place was attention. That is part of what I see as a problem. He has the right to own the gun he owns and to walk around with it, but in reality, he probably doesn't need it and him accidentally hurting himself or someone else is a more likely outcome than being attacked for his bible, but I'll admit I don't know the street value of a good bible these days.

True story on all counts. What is the going value for a Bible? Anyone know?

Hey man, if it's a Bible you're looking for, I've got the goods. The good stuff, too - none of that King James with all those thees and thousand. Nah, I got the real goods. It'll cost you, but I can get you pure uncut Greek and Hebrew.

meet me behind the church tonight at midnight...

Okay I admit it, I laughed at this for a good 10 minutes. Well done!

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by Stairwayto7:

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by kescwi:
These type of people, and those who champion them, are the ones who will ruin it for all of us. This guy needs to be laughed at not defended, he needs to be ignored not taken seriously.

How is this a protest?

After reading more on it, it sounds like he is simply doing it for the attention.

Most of the open carry people do it for attention. Because of my training whenever I see a person carrying openly I immediately assess them and decide whether they are a threat or not. They never are, they just want people to know that that they are armed. I always just laugh because then it just makes it that much easier for them to be disarmed. The rifle guys are the worst, because a rifle slung on your back takes forever to place into operation. Open carry goes with the saying "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."

I'm the same way in regards to always "assessing" things/people (probably for the same reasons you do). I sometimes see people around town wearing their gun out in the open and end up chuckling because it's usually in a spot where someone else will get it before they do (like in front or something). And like you said even with that, those people aren't a threat because they are basically just brandishing their gun openly because they can and they want the attention.

This post was edited on 6/15 8:19 AM by BBG

 

[Stol91]

This is a pretty interesting discussion. I think the challenge is that it is hard to legislate common sense and both sides have very valid points/concerns about where legislation ultimately leads us as a nation.

To the poster who asked if I would feel threatened walking around a person with a loaded assault rifle, I would say probably. That goes up exponentially if I had my two children with me. Not as much for what they might intend to do, but more for what COULD happen accidentally. So, to me the question is not is it legal, but is it sensible?

With the car analogy, it may be legal to accelerate a sports car down a crowded road from 0-60 in 4 seconds. Is it sensible? What things can go wrong? Sure, you would attract attention, but you also unnecessarily increase the risk that something goes wrong. Tire blows out, dog runs out in front of you, etc. Same thing with the loaded gun.

To me the difference is with a gun, in theory, if I felt a credible threat and was carrying a gun myself, the odds for potentially bad outcomes goes up exponentially.

It would seem like the best course of action in either case where someone is repeatedly trying to 'get attention' in a manner like this would be for the police to step in to really assess their mental state. If you WANT to carry a firearm like that, be willing to pass the diligence that lets society feel more comfortable about it. Same way with the car analogy. Perhaps that person should be made to demonstrate that they are capable of driving in such a manner beyond the basic operation of a vehicle.

In general, I think that if you want to own / operate / utilize things that have the ability to quickly and permanently damage others, you should be comfortable if society as a whole says "we'd like a little more assurance / scrutiny that you aren't a novice or a nut job". Seems like a more reasonable outcome than 'ban all of it" or "make it easy for everyone".

 

[boilerntx]

You would get a ticket for unsafe start