LOL! You ask where you are defending crean, then you defend him! Typical Snuie.
So where did I say you defended his coaching? Might want to go reread my posts.
Why would you go to IU if you're a PG?
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LOL! You ask where you are defending crean, then you defend him! Typical Snuie.
So where did I say you defended his coaching? Might want to go reread my posts.
I have to strongly disagree with you Twin. Yogi has come a long way since he came in.
Crean's wide open, isolation style of basketball can be good for the development of talented perimeter players with some very prominent examples. Oladipo is an example of a player who made tremendous strides. Dwayne Wade is presumably another (though I wasn't playing close enough attention to know). On the other hand, I didn't think he did a good job helping Cody Zeller develop a well rounded offensive game and I think that he relies too much on trickery on defense, rather than focusing on fundamentals.
Not true. Stephens was a MUCH better defender this season than he was as a freshmen. When he came in as a freshman he was a fouling machine, because he couldn't move his feet. He also was a much better passer as a sophomore than as a freshmen.
His shot selection was also better as a sophomore than as a freshman, but I do think he struggled a bit more with his hand injury and his confidence, so his percentage didn't go up as much as it should have. I think that we'll see the shooting improvement this coming season.
I will defend Crean's ability to develop players and that's it currently. I won't defend his lack of defense or substitution patterns or in game adjustments. When I think of defending Crean it's more around his coaching , NOT development because I think that speaks for itself and doesn't need defending.
100% agree with all of this. He didn't use Zeller as well as he could have. He's done a really good job of developing players. And his switching defenses mid possession is f'ing brutal to watch. Thank you for actually being objective.
I'll have plenty of fun watching a team with one of the best back courts in the country and a team that filled it's only hole on the roster with a 5* center.
Have fun trying to stay in the top four without a PG or another guard who can play defense because Stephens and Mathias aren't going to cut it. Oh, also good luck actually playing the top four of the B10 more than once. We all saw what happened to Purdue when they played Wisky in the B10 tourney. OUCH.
IU does have one of the best back courts in the country...and getting a highly rated post player helps them quite a bit. You also finished 9-9 in the conference last season and were clearly a bubble team going into the tourney. It is possible and most likely you become a much better team, but you and so many of your fanbase consistently border on delusional by expecting your additions to be magical and by us to fall off the competitive planet? If your guy isn't as amazing as you expect or has any kind of injury you are back to being a team that has to hit 3's and will get exposed by any team with post depth and talent. Don't let that get in the way of your expectations of going from a bubble team to marching toward the top of the league and final 4 run while we struggle to compete as a top 4 conference team. You complement a poster earlier for being objective, and then feed us this line and expect to be treated as reasonable? Our team loses one player, an important player, but we also return the majority of our talent...but go ahead and believe we suck because we lost badly to Wisconsin...the same Wisconsin who beat your ass and almost won the natty. Message boards never disappoint.
SNU - What are you talking about? Purdue played Wisconsin well in the BTT and during the season on the road... the final BTT score was ugly but the game was very close most of it, in fact Purdue led at the half. Every game was enjoyable to watch this year in the big ten, especially the IU games. That BTT game was the only big ten game Purdue lost by double digits... Such stupid ignorant comments...
Well let's be fair here, he is an IU fan so ignoring facts comes with the territory.
Yup. You did lead at half and then Wisky quickly took the lead and destroyed you guys. It wasn't close.
Look, I think you guys will be good next year. I think Top 5 is 100% possible and probably a disappointing season if Painter can't keep you guys there. However, you don't have a PG. You lost a good one in Octeus and a very good defender. You benefitted from an unbalanced schedule. You played Maryland, Wisconsin and MSU once and got beat all three times. You played Wisky in the BTT and got destroyed. You lost to a mediocre Cincinnati team. It's not like you guys were a ranked team who returns everyone. I'm saying you guys will be good. Not many here are saying the same about IU even though it seems very likely (all of this is assuming no injuries). This seems like the same type of comments when we added Zeller (I'm NOT comparing Bryant to Zeller). He filled a huge gaping hole we had just like Bryant will do. We don't need 15 and 10 from him. I fully expect IU AND PU to be in the top half of the league with a chance to be as high as third. I just personally think Maryland and MSU will be the class of the B10.
Your post would have more merit if it wasn't so full of crap and if we hadn't swept IU last year. That and our system doesn't require a true PG to be successful.
Just go back to peegs, you will only continue to be embarrassed on here.
One of the best back courts in the country? You have a ton of great shooters. You play chit defense. I've watch JBJ since he came to Marion, I've read every day in the C-T about his skill set. I've never seen him guard grandma on consecutive possessions down the court, and we most likely never will. Yogi was all about Yogi last year, and he's not going to change who he is. Sure he's a good player, but he's going to need to score more and pass more, and pass isn't in his game. The new guy....as someone said, you basically return a team that barely made the NCAA's and lost to Purdue twice and Northwestern...so he probably can't hurt unless he's a problem in the locker room. Those two other three stars Crean picked up....more wings that IU really didn't need. If it were me, I'd bring JBJ off the bench when I needed points and other than that he'd be on the bench. Johnson's overall game is much better, and I'd play him. Good luck on the dream. I'm sure HMP will be a lottery pick this year too.
SNU is a joke! He's on peegs talking smack to a Michigan fan and how bad they were last year. Dude I believe Beilein has done way more with way less then your CTC. Dude you seriously have IU blinders on! IU still has the same system that has had problems in the B1G ever year under Crean. He's had the most 5* recruits at his time at IU and was close to getting fired!
Hammons constantly disappears from games? Really? How many times did you watch Purdue this year? The guy only got better as the season wore on. I'm glad he will constantly be on the floor for us next year.
I will and do have very good conversations with people capable of doing so and SNU just isn't one of them. And this goes back a bit in his history so it is nothing new. That said, nothing is stopping you from not coming here if you don't like how one of your own is treated. I mean it's not like the peegs forum has the corner on calling posters out or anything like that.
Clean your own house before you come over there to critique how one of yours is treated for his craptacular posting.
Unfortunately, it is the nature of free boards. I have no issue with SNU or you coming over here to talk basketball. We all have different perspectives, so don't be surprised when folks don't agree with you. You are correct in that both you and SNU have been civil and reasonable. However, I don't think you are going to win the argument that IU will be worlds better next year. Most of will concede that IU should be improved.
As for those on this aboard who insult or annoy you, well, welcome to the world of the free board. Go look at Peegs and you will see much the same. The guy with the empty hat is a great example. He likes to patrol the board, and if you are registered under any other school than IU, you get ripped. He doesn't even respond to the message. So, go clean house at your own board before coming over here with thin skin.
True story!
Yup. I've said Purdue will be a tough team next year. Definitely an NCAA Tourney team. IU is definitely a tourney team as well. Both will more than likely end in the top half of the league. I honestly don't know where but like I said, the groups go as follows:
Group One
Maryland
MSU
Group Two
IU
Wisky
PU
UM
OSU
Group Three
Iowa
Illinois
Group Four
The rest
The top two groups are tourney teams IMO.
Who is saying IU will be "worlds better" next year?Unfortunately, it is the nature of free boards. I have no issue with SNU or you coming over here to talk basketball. We all have different perspectives, so don't be surprised when folks don't agree with you. You are correct in that both you and SNU have been civil and reasonable. However, I don't think you are going to win the argument that IU will be worlds better next year. Most of will concede that IU should be improved.
As for those on this aboard who insult or annoy you, well, welcome to the world of the free board. Go look at Peegs and you will see much the same. The guy with the empty hat is a great example. He likes to patrol the board, and if you are registered under any other school than IU, you get ripped. He doesn't even respond to the message. So, go clean house at your own board before coming over here with thin skin.
You want a real perspective on Purdue? Go to the national board. It's not just IU fans like me or iubb1984 that think IU will be better and MAYBE Purdue won't do as well as they did last year. You'll get opinions from fans of several different conferences and schools. Unbiased opinions.
Come on SNU. You are talking about the silvermaine guy who is a big Terp fan. If you are using him as an example, you are going to have to do better. A quick search on the national boards shows most folks think the BIG is a toss-up between the teams we have been discussing (Whisky, MSU, MD, Purdue, and IU - with OSU thrown in there as a just-in-case).
...And yes, the opinions are biased.
Wow, I completely owned your dome in three posts, and you're still crying about it a week later.
Awesome.
Does this qualify as "going nuts"?? Lemme know. Thx.
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It's been discussed a few times already this off season. Most think along the same lines that I do in that Purdue will be in the top half, but not a contender to win. The contenders people seem to lean toward are Maryland and MSU.
More backtracking than I've seen from anyone. I guess it comes from poor reading skills and even poorer thinking skills.
The issue with projecting IU next year is where can they possibly go from dead last in the big ten on defense? Yes, their 3-point shooting will carry them through many games, but it will most likely fail them on the road as it usually does for Crean. Who is the defensive stopper? Who is going to get the steals or the blocks? It's the same crew with an untested freshman out there.
On Purdue's side, I don't think people realize what a difference a healthy Kendall Stephens and an in-shape Dakota Mathias will be next year. It's not just the same crew next year without a PG. Mathias was coming off of mono and vertigo at the beginning of the season. Stephens had a couple of injuries that he just never shook. Purdue's 3-point shooting was really terrible this last year, despite a team full of players who can shoot. The Cinci game was just awful - of course you're going to lose shooting 12% or whatever from 3, but yet Purdue was still in it and could have easily won. If those two guys get their confidence in check, there's tremendous upside. Yes, Purdue loses a good defender in Octeus, but when you have the returning big ten DPOY, you know you're going to have a tone-setter out there to lead. There's a lot of upside to Purdue.
Here's my problem with your post....You think IU is going to be so much better with the same team coming back with the addition of two 3's and a 4, who are freshmen. You believe TC is this great developer of talent. Will Blackmon really be that much better, and I'm asking for and wanting a civil discussion on this....can TC make him a defensive standout, which he needs to be? Will he somehow learn to be a defensive genius, which he's never been in his career? Will Troy, either because of the addition of your 4 star, or on his own suddenly learn to defend and to be consistent with an outside shot? Will he continue to foul at random? Will HMP suddenly become the 5 star he was when signed...can Crean turn a pig's ear (HMP) into a silk purse that can stay on the floor more than five minutes before getting in foul trouble? Has he made Priller and April even serviceable for a five minute span? And your missing the boat on Michigan, or at least I believe you are, and honestly if you're putting IU that far up, why is it that you're not talking about what OSU has coming back and the best class coming in? I do agree with you about Iowa, and you may have them too high. Illinois....as I said if Groce can figure out an offense the can surprise as their back court may rival IU's for overall talent. And being an IU fan, you tend to undervalue what having AJ, Haas, and the rest coming back along with the addition of what many are calling the best pure shooter coming into the league means for the Boiler's chances. See, I used to be an even bigger IU homer than you will ever be, so I understand your "optimism."
Hey Snu - serious question. Who is going to get Creaned from the current 14 scholarships? Are you OK with that practice? Or do you not think that it takes place and someone just leaves on their own accord?
when i imagine snu0821's voice i think of the adult sounds in the charlie brown shows. waa wa wa wa wa. makes as much sense as his trolling thoughts hehe
I think the only change I would make to your prediction is the relative position of MSU and Purdue. Like Purdue, MSU lost their senior PG and must replace him. I think we might agree that TumTum is not the answer. Just like PJ maight not be the answer for Purdue. The difference is that MSU lost a few more players and might be considered young. Talented but young. That creates inconsistency. Young teams play great one week and terrible the next. I think that will push MSU down into the second tier for next year.
In some respects I think next year will be similar to this year. One team above the pack, Whisky 2014 & MD 2015, with everybody else chasing them.
If Purdue can land an experiejnced PG transfer, then I might say that there will be two teams in the top bracket. We will see how that goes. I can see the argument against, but just consider it one guys' opinion at this point.
Blackmon and Williams solicited feedback from the NBA. Essentially both were told defense is a key for both. Williams was told he needs to be able to put up a consistent outside shot. Blackmon was told he needs to be able to run the point and guard both guard spots. I think (hope) hearing it directly from NBA people that it will light a fire under each of their seats to work on what they need to. Did Hammons get feedback? I'd be interested to hear what they told him to work on. Consistency and maybe not turning the ball over as much? Other than that, he seems like he's got good footwork and obviously his defense is solid. Let me know what he heard if it has been said here. Thanks.
I'm NOT confident in Crean's ability to make IU a good team. Look at his historical defensive stats, he's had a few teams IIRC total in his career in the Top 30 defensively or something like that. I do think that Blackmon can get better on defense, partly due to him not being able to get any worse. Plus he's got more time to get stronger etc. which will help him both on offense and defense. Defensive standout? Highly doubtful. Could he make him get to be an average defender? Possibly. I think it's as much on Blackmon as it is on Crean. I do think you're underestimating Bryant coming in. He's not going to be like Zeller, but he doesn't have to be. To me, he's going to need to play defense without fouling (which can be tough for freshman bigs), rebound and score on the block occasionally. He's not going to need to put up 15 and 10. I think he starts immediately with Perea and Holt coming off the bench. Oh, and Perea ended up ranked like 50th in the RSCI composite. Priller and April won't see a minute of time next year in a real game. They shouldn't have been signed. IU's biggest weakness is going to be defensively (obviously). Signing Bryant should help that from day 1. Now that we'll have some depth there, I think our defense will be better. Now, Yogi, JBJ and Williams ALL need to work their butts off on the defensive side of the ball if they want to have any real chance at winning a few games in the tourney. Our offense will carry us even if we're not a superb defensive team. I could see IU anywhere between 3rd and 6th.
UM is a tough one next year. They return as much as IU. However, even when they had LeVert and Walton healthy at the beginning of the year, they were kind of a dumpster fire. They were getting stomped by garbage teams. I do think they'll be better, I'm just not buying them being a real contender for the B10 title. I could see them in a similar light to IU in the 3-6 range in the B10. OSU is a little tougher as well. Matta is a good coach and he's got loads of talent. Will Lyle be able to replace what they lost in Russell? Not sure. I think they'll get it done by committee, but I'm not sold on them being a Top 5 team. I think they'll be close, but ultimately not in the Top 5.
As for Purdue, I do think you will be good. I've said over and over that Purdue will be in (and out) of the Top 25 all year and a tourney lock. Where I think I differ from most here (shocker) is passed Hammons, Davis and Edwards. Those three are very solid. I think Davis needs to improve his efficiency on offense but clearly having the B10 DPOY returning is a big boost. Passed those three, I'm not sold. I don't think Stephens or Mathias scare anyone. Obviously Stephens can get hot and hit 7-9 from 3 or whatever, but to me, he's nothing more than a shooter. Mathias seemed like he could handle the pressure as a freshman which is a good sign, but I think he lacks athleticism and it seems like his shot is kind of slow. I don't expect much out of Thompson next year. I know the kid can shoot, but he's really small and I don't think he can create his own shot like Octeus could or someone like Yogi or the guy from Minny last year that was small. Cline will be good in time. I don't see him coming in and really having a big impact. I'm sure he'll play, but I don't see him as a B10 All Freshman Team type of kid. My thoughts on Purdue are that yes your guys will be better, but you have a much harder schedule next year. The B10 is going to be super tough and you have a huge question mark at the PG spot. I think Octeus was a very important part of your wins in the second half of the season. Replacing him is critical IMO. Even if you don't I still think you'll be a top half (4-6) of the league team and in the tourney. I just don't buy Purdue as a real B10 title contender. I think that stays with MSU and Maryland until I see some team make me change my mind.
I'm fine having a civil conversation. I just like to talk without the super homer optimism and I don't think what you or I said falls into that category.
I don't think Tum Tum is the answer for them either, and he's going to need to prove he can shoot it. However, they bring in Davis and Swanigan, two 5* kids that will be immediate impact kids. I think those two with Valentine who I think could be really, really good next year, Forbes and Tum Tum is a loaded lineup. Tum Tum had much more playing time than Thompson and IMO is a better player. I agree they could start off the year inconsistent, like some Izzo teams seem to do, but with this type of talent on his team I don't see how anyone could doubt Izzo getting them to play ball come B10 season.I think the only change I would make to your prediction is the relative position of MSU and Purdue. Like Purdue, MSU lost their senior PG and must replace him. I think we might agree that TumTum is not the answer. Just like PJ maight not be the answer for Purdue. The difference is that MSU lost a few more players and might be considered young. Talented but young. That creates inconsistency. Young teams play great one week and terrible the next. I think that will push MSU down into the second tier for next year.
In some respects I think next year will be similar to this year. One team above the pack, Whisky 2014 & MD 2015, with everybody else chasing them.
If Purdue can land an experiejnced PG transfer, then I might say that there will be two teams in the top bracket. We will see how that goes. I can see the argument against, but just consider it one guys' opinion at this point.
Maryland has a very tough schedule. MSU's schedule is actually pretty easy in comparison. That is another reason why I think MSU is a contender. Again, I don't see Purdue as a real title contender in the B10. This is who I see it, I know you guys see it differently, but here's my opinion. You played Wisconsin twice, MSU once, Maryland once, OSU twice and Iowa once. You were beat all four times you played the top three teams in the league. You beat OSU and Iowa when they were missing key players and both wins were at home. You don't have the immediate match up advantage against IU like last year and you play them in Bloomington. To me, a real title contender would have won some of those games against the top of the league. Plus Octeus is gone and as you stated Thompson probably isn't the answer at PG next year.
I just really struggle with Wisconsin. Everything I see makes me want to put them in 5th or 6th, but history tells me otherwise. I just can't see how they're going to be a Top 4 team in the B10 next year with all the tough, tough teams we're going to have in the B10.
I think Groce's seat may start to get warm if he can't make some noise this year. I don't think he will, but he needs to do something soon if he wants to stick around.
I think it's Priller or April. I think Crean is an idiot for bringing both of those guys on. I guess I could see one but both? Neither of them will ever see meaningful minutes unless their is some magical transformation in their game. And no, I don't agree with his practice. I think the oversign is a completely absurd rule and should be eliminated. I think you'll find that most IU fans feel the same way. I can't say what will happen this year, meaning Crean making someone leave or someone leaving on their own accord. I think both have happened in the past, even though most here seem to think every single kid from IU is kicked out. I would be a lot more kids leave on their own accord then are actually kicked out, but that's just me. I think it comes down to a conversation on playing time.
I agree with you on this. Sadly, its not just Crean that does it. I just dont get it though, especially after Glass made such a big deal about the "Contract with Athletes' stuff where he pounded his chest and said guaranteed 4 year scholarships. How can that man look in the mirror after being so hypocritical on this topic?
You're preaching to the choir with the Glass comment. It honestly makes zero sense.
It makes perfect sense. He knows his fanbase. He knows they have an elitist attitude and that if he can bring in a 5* every year that the fans get what they want and will ignore the fact that he hasn't done anything with any of them for the entire summer. He doesn't have to win actual games. He just has to give the fans another summer of "ooh we're loaded" and of course now the popular, "we're ranked in May" that allow him to continue to point In one direction as he loses games in february and march in the othe direction.
You're the perfect example of it. You come here and pound your chest about rankings when there are no games, try to spin your opinions as fact, and compost my ignore the fact that this is the same team that lost 10 out of its last 15 games during the easiest stretch of your conference season. But, yeah. A freshman is gonna wipe away all of the issues your fanbase was complaining about a mere month ago when calling for crean to be fired. Quite a kid to solve 7 years of the same results down the stretch. I wonder how Cal and coach K. Let him slip away?
Well...I think you're pretty much wrong with a lot of this (shocker).
If Crean doesn't make it passed the S16 this year, with our roster, I think he'll be on the hot seat. So yes. He does actually have to win games. We made the tourney last year. We won 20 games last year and it wasn't NEARLY enough. So all the publicity with the rankings and recruits is great, but if you just pay attention to Peegs, which I know you do, it's certainly clear that the fans are fed up with the what Crean's be able to do/not do. So you're first paragraph is pretty much wrong.
I'm not pounding my chest about our rankings. I was simply using them to point out to a poster here that claims putting IU ahead of Purdue is a "homer pick" isn't correct and that there are several publications/websites/analysts that have IU ranked and Purdue not ranked. To me, that seems to be the consensus. If I'm wrong, please feel free to show me where numerous articles showing Purdue projected to finish higher or is ranked higher than IU.
Yes this is the same team as last year. HOWEVER, we're now filling the biggest weakness in our roster with a McDonald's All American. He's 6'11. Our big man last year was 6'8/6'9. If you don't understand how that impacts defense, well, I think we can be done because you're not worth continuing this with. I could say that this is the same Purdue team that lost to North Florida, Garner Webb and Vanderbilt. The same team that two of it's best wins were AGAINST IU who you had a huge mismatch against. That mismatch is gone. The same Purdue team that didn't have another quality road win outside of IU. The same Purdue team that lost four of it's last six with its only wins against PSU and Illinois. The same Purdue team that got curb stomped by Wisky in the BTT. The same Purdue team that go beat by an average Cincinnati team. The same Purdue team that lost it's only PG. Again, this is so similar to the Zeller situation when he was a freshman. Nobody here thought he would change a thing. I'm not comparing Bryant to Zeller. I'm comparing the situation where both teams needed a good big. Both teams got a very good big. I don't think Bryant is going to be nearly as good as Zeller, but he won't have to be. I actually think I've been very reasonable here. You just get your panties all bunched up because I don't think some of your guys are NBA players or because I think IU could finish ahead of IU. Go look at the early talk about next year. Go look at the rankings and where people think teams will finish. Clearly every one of those guys who have IU ranked must be crazy IU homers, right? Clearly they don't know what they're talking about if they don't have Purdue ranked or if they don't have Purdue finishing higher than IU, right?
And you're the same guy that thinks Kendall Stephens actually has a shot at getting drafted......I'll leave you with that one to laugh at.
Weren't you also ranked preseason two years ago with a 5* big man? Did you go to the postseason that year?
Once again you say I'm wrong when shared facts when you're right by sharing opinion. Crean is yours forever.
Yup we did with an unbalanced roster. We had no shooters. We had guys who could get to the rim but couldn't shoot. This year, we have shooters, guys who can get to the rim and now a big man. Really isn't hard to see the huge differences.
I think that most fans here know who the consensus picks are and don't need to be told by SNU. This is a place where Purdue fans want to know what other Purdue fans think.
Pete never said that KS would get drafted. He only said it was possible. Very few people would have expected Kendall's dad, Everette, to be drafted after his sophomore year, but he made great strides as a junior and senior and eventually was drafted in the second round, iirc. I also remember national experts saying that Brian Cardinal ha "no chance" of playing in the NBA.
I agree that it appears unlikely that Stephens will play in the NBA, but saying that there is "a chance" that he develops to that level isn't exactly going out on a limb. He was a top 60 player coming out of high school after all. He earned that ranking because he has an unusual talent. We haven't seen him fulfill his promise yet, but that doesn't mean that there is no chance that he will.
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