Why doesn't the University help support athletics financially?

[bonefish1]

We always hear how the PU Ath Dept is self funded and doesn't get money from the Univ.
Anyone want to do the research to see what other B10 schools have self funded ADs?
If PU is one of only a few, why are we putting our AD at a competitive disadvantage like that?
A very strong justification can be made for the U to help the AD financially in order to build and grow our programs to be able to compete from a recruiting and facilities standpoint.

 

[iubhounds]

With B1G tv money I think all teams are self funded via athletic departments. I know in some cases IU athletic department gave money to the university for new academic buildings. Yet at that time they had a Prez from Australia that didn't know a basketball from a field hockey stick.

 

[TC4THREE]

Because the university is funded with taxpayer money and minor league sports is not remotely within the mission of the university.

 

[bonefish1]

Because the university is funded with taxpayer money and minor league sports is not remotely within the mission of the university.

But is Purdue an exception?
Is every state school's AD self funded?
But let's be honest. Strong athletic programs are extremely important to the university. Studies prove it.

 

[iubhounds]

The pandemic year FY21 hurt all universities where they lost money ... I am not sure what this $8M from the university to the athletic department was for at IU. The article did a poor job of explaining it. But it does show that the athletic department in all other years is 100% supported by funding, revenue outside the academic side of the university.

From last February 2024

 

[TC4THREE]

But is Purdue an exception?
Is every state school's AD self funded?
But let's be honest. Strong athletic programs are extremely important to the university. Studies prove it.

Which studies? Were they done since they started giving millions to teenagers?

 

[RossMackey]

Because the university is funded with taxpayer money and minor league sports is not remotely within the mission of the university.

That is a noble and admirable statement, but it is belied by how willingly Purdue accepts the massive monetary and notoriety-associated benefits arising from intercollegiate athletics, and its status as a B1G university!

Countless other land- grant and top shelf academic powerhouses don’t seem to have sullied their “mission” by investing in sports.

Like it or not, it’s clear that athletics is the front porch for most schools.

 

[awthomps]

That is a noble and admirable statement, but it is belied by how willingly Purdue accepts the massive monetary and notoriety-associated benefits arising from intercollegiate athletics, and its status as a B1G university!

Countless other land- grant and top shelf academic powerhouses don’t seem to have sullied their “mission” by investing in sports.

Like it or not, it’s clear that athletics is the front porch for most schools.

And how many of those universities have maintained a tuition freeze for 14 years? None. The same as the amount of money there is available to fund the sports at Purdue from student fees or taxpayer dollars. NIL is also now competing for donors with the rest of the academic programs, which will have negative impacts.

And the few studies that have been done on benefits of a winning football program (note only elite football teams seem to get this benefit) are model based analyses, published in subpar journals, are old (seems to be a topic of interest for a small group of researchers in the early 2000s) and poorly cited suggesting questionable study design and wishful thinking interpretations of the results. There appear to be no studies showing basketball has these effects, so that sucks for Purdue. And more recently there are several recent studies questioning whether universities should lose their tax exempt status because of athletics revenues.

 

[Tommaker]

But is Purdue an exception?
Is every state school's AD self funded?
But let's be honest. Strong athletic programs are extremely important to the university. Studies prove it.

NCAA Division I
In 2017, 23 of 228 public school Division I athletic departments were self-sufficient

 

[Tommaker]

Which studies? Were they done since they started giving millions to teenagers?

from 2013, but I anticipate it's still close to the same. We attended (and graduated) from a very unusual University, folks. POint of pride for me.

Most NCAA Division I athletic departments take subsidies

At a time of tight budgets throughout higher education, even the nation’s few financially self-sufficient major-college athletics departments are continuing to receive subsidies in the form of student fees, school or state support, a USA TODAY Sports analysis finds. Just 23 of 228 athletics...

www.goacta.org

LSU, Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Purdue and Texas were the only schools to report no subsidy money in 2012. Michigan reported receiving less than $260,000: $16,000 in federal work study funding and the remainder from the university to cover the salary of academic services director Phil Hughes, according to athletics spokesman Dave Ablauf.

Wow! Look at that company. Wild.

 

[Tommaker]

Which studies? Were they done since they started giving millions to teenagers?

Here's one from 2020 updated 2022, so pretty recent.

I found 18 profitable & 211 money-losing NCAA Division-I public athletic programs in 2020

[EDITED to add "Profit without FB coaching salaries." 5:24 pm, 9/3/22].

www.linkedin.com

 

[Tommaker]

One last one. The NCAA numbers on revenue and NIL.

NCAA Revenue Sharing & NIL Estimates 2025

nil-ncaa.com

 

[boilermaker75]

But is Purdue an exception?
Is every state school's AD self funded?
But let's be honest. Strong athletic programs are extremely important to the university. Studies prove it.

If you look at the top universities in the US, most do not have strong athletic programs. So maybe having a strong athletic program hurts?

 

[Wolegib]

I would have gladly accepted a football scholarship to pay for 5 years of college and room and board, rather than taking out $25,000 of student loans and doing 20 hours of work study every week. You talk about how much extra time football players put into their college. I worked 20 hours a week, and carried an average load of 16 credit hours each semester.

Student athletes also receive free medical care, and free tutors, and a free training facility and free trainers. Do you realize how much that would cost an average person ?

athletes receive benefits of $50-100,000 a year depending on the college they attend. I guess for some, that's just not enough.

you talk about how much a school receives from the big TV contracts. Schools have costs and expenses too. is the football team going to go by bus to play at Oregon and USC ? I doubt it. schools also have to pay for facility upkeep/upgrade, insurance, and liability. that's not cheap. and colleges have to pay for all sports, not just football. have you looked at mackey arena lately/ it's gone through a couple of renovations. the same with Lambert Field. Schools are not just pocketing the money they receive into some PAC fund to elect the next Indiana Senator, and nobody that works at purdue other than a couple of coaches is making a lot of money.

should an 18 year old make more money than a tenured professor or college Dean ? I say no.

 

[pboiler18]

One last one. The NCAA numbers on revenue and NIL.

NCAA Revenue Sharing & NIL Estimates 2025

nil-ncaa.com

I think this is how we potentially help turn the tide back to us. Allows us to funnel money through the school vs a donor base that we don’t have or is at least not energized for football giving.

Money and NIL is of growing importance but so is coaching, scheme and player development. Handle all of these facets there’s no reason we can’t be a 7-8-9 win team. And if we were, I think most all Purdue fans would be happy!

 

[bonefish1]

If you look at the top universities in the US, most do not have strong athletic programs. So maybe having a strong athletic program hurts?

Top universities for what? That's pretty subjective. I'd argue that if you're graduating from any B10 school, you're getting a top level education. But there are plenty of people who waste their time getting a gender studies or some other worthless degree from top schools.
Once you've got a few years under you careerwise, where you went is more important from a name recognition and networking standpoint as opposed to the actual education you recieved .

 

[RossMackey]

And how many of those universities have maintained a tuition freeze for 14 years? None. The same as the amount of money there is available to fund the sports at Purdue from student fees or taxpayer dollars. NIL is also now competing for donors with the rest of the academic programs, which will have negative impacts.

And the few studies that have been done on benefits of a winning football program (note only elite football teams seem to get this benefit) are model based analyses, published in subpar journals, are old (seems to be a topic of interest for a small group of researchers in the early 2000s) and poorly cited suggesting questionable study design and wishful thinking interpretations of the results. There appear to be no studies showing basketball has these effects, so that sucks for Purdue. And more recently there are several recent studies questioning whether universities should lose their tax exempt status because of athletics revenues.

I'm not understanding how Purdue's brilliant, innovative idea to freeze in-state tuition would in any way be harmed by more substantive investment in football... Purdue has engaged in multiple high-priced intercollegiate sports upgrades in the 14 years of the tuition freeze, with no diminution (that I'm aware of) in the quality of the university's academics:

*a spectacular upgrade to Mackey Arena;
* a spectacular upgrade to Ross-Ade;
* spectacular new baseball and softball facilities;
* spectacular re-design of our golf courses (Purdue has probably the premier collegiate golf facility (in terms of the quality of the courses) in the country;
* swimming and diving ;
*Tennis;
*womens' soccer

How in the world could all this sports spending have occurred, all while maintaining the in-state tuition freeze??

 

[FiveWeight]

Because the university is funded with taxpayer money and minor league sports is not remotely within the mission of the university.

Well stated. I’d love it if my favorite university sports programs had more money, but it should not come from the academic side. If it flows the other way and sports financially benefit the university or offer greater exposure after a successful season, then that’s the point of having sports teams and they’re doing their job.

 

[bonefish1]

Well stated. I’d love it if my favorite university sports programs had more money, but it should not come from the academic side. If it flows the other way and sports financially benefit the university or offer greater exposure after a successful season, then that’s the point of having sports teams and they’re doing their job.

Disagree. I think the AD is part of the university ("Student athletes") and therefore, the University should support them in both mind and body. Competing in athletics at that level sharpens the mind, enforces academic discipline and teaches life skills well beyond athletic accomplishments. The Univ should support that development and growth with financial support.

 

[FiveWeight]

If we were talking about modest facilities and local-centric travel, like a high school has then sure I could see that Bone. But have you ever seen some of the revenue sports’ facilities? Of course you have. No academic money should be used for an arms race producing that kind of opulence, nor anything related to over-or under-the-table paying players with NIL.

 

[bonefish1]

If we were talking about modest facilities and local-centric travel, like a high school has then sure I could see that Bone. But have you ever seen some of the revenue sports’ facilities? Of course you have. No academic money should be used for an arms race producing that kind of opulence, nor anything related to over-or under-the-table paying players with NIL.

College athletics is a big time business. It's well past an arms race. You either pay to play or fall behind. Strong athletics drives name recognition and funding well beyond the ath dept.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

College athletics is a big time business. It's well past an arms race. You either pay to play or fall behind. Strong athletics drives name recognition and funding well beyond the ath dept.

And drives admissions.

 

[TC4THREE]

And drives admissions.

We turn down a ton of applications every year.

 

[Poprudy]

College athletics is a big time business. It's well past an arms race. You either pay to play or fall behind. Strong athletics drives name recognition and funding well beyond the ath dept.

It's not always about paying the player but whom you pay. This is going to be a free agent market every year.

Names to see in the market are Keanu Koht, but most likely will end up at Vandy and Mylan Graham who received a little over 50k with other WR's on the same team receiving 400k plus. My bet he'll transfer out to Tennessee with an NIL deal of 450k plus.

 

[boilermaker75]

Top universities for what? That's pretty subjective. I'd argue that if you're graduating from any B10 school, you're getting a top level education. But there are plenty of people who waste their time getting a gender studies or some other worthless degree from top schools.
Once you've got a few years under you careerwise, where you went is more important from a name recognition and networking standpoint as opposed to the actual education you recieved .

Top universities in any academic ranking be it with something highly respected like QS world rankings or US News and World Reports.

I would trade academic and athletic reputation with those of the University of Chicago in a heart beat.

101 Nobel laureates associated with University of Chicago. I am aware of only three with Purdue, two faculty and one student.

 

[Wolegib]

University of Chicago and Marquette University have the right idea and mindset. They are universities, not some semi-pro football team that the college finances. I'm also kind of tired of paying taxes for stadiums for pro teams that could care less about their fan base. .

So what if our football team suks. the revenue it generates doesn't go back to students or academics or the purpose of this land grant college. it goes back to athletics.

if you don't want to go to a Purdue football game because our team suks, then you are not really a very loyal Purdue fan, are you ? Green bay packers games have been sold out for over 50 years. the fans go for the brats and beer. they don't care about the outcome of the game. I met my future wife at a Purdue football game. I have no idea what the score was or if we won. My mind was focused elsewhere.

you have 50 people in this forum that want a winning football team. are any of you rich enough to put your money where your mouth is ? You have over 50,000 fans who went to the game knowing Purdue was a bad team, but were loyal fans.

let's be realistic about our future. the BIG 10 just added Washington, Oregon, USC and UCLA. they may add two more from Texas A&M, FSU, Miami, Notre Dame, Duke and North Carolina. Do you envision Purdue beating any of those teams on a consistent basis ? The BIG 10 doesn't really care about Purdue's problems winning ball games. Can you see Purdue becoming a winning team any time soon ? and if they don't become a winning team, will you accept them for what they are and still support them ? Or are you just a band wagon fan who only likes winning teams ?

you send out a bat signal to Drew Brees to save us, save us save us... But all it seems you want him to do is give money and pick a coach. It's kind of clear that Drew really doesn't want to be a coach or an AD . let him live his life. why don't you have Ivey on your speed dial and ask him for some money. there are a few other former Purdue players still alive . Have any of them shown any ability to coach ? what's Woodson doing these days ? what's Herrman doing ?

if people believe an 80 year old guy can be President, surely an 80 year old can be a Purdue football coach. Barry Alverez is still alive. go get him. or how about Jerry Jones. he's football savvy. and he knows how to spend money. or maybe snoop dog or the pummel horse guy. or that janitor that can sing. he seems qualified enough. and he's a winner. he probably knows the words to Hail Purdue.

 

[bonefish1]

Top universities in any academic ranking be it with something highly respected like QS world rankings or US News and World Reports.

I would trade academic and athletic reputation with those of the University of Chicago in a heart beat.

101 Nobel laureates associated with University of Chicago. I am aware of only three with Purdue, two faculty and one student.

In the real world of hiring people, the number or Nobel laureates is irrelevant. Sort of like the person who graduates last in their class in med school is still called "Doctor".

 

[boilermaker75]

In the real world of hiring people, the number or Nobel laureates is irrelevant. Sort of like the person who graduates last in their class in med school is still called "Doctor".

No it is just one of many metrics indicating the quality of not only the institution but mainly the quality of who studied there.

When I select a doctor, where they got their medical degree is one of the factors I use in my selection.

I needed a cardiologist so I didn't just pick one out of the yellow pages. I didn't select one of the local ones, many who got their degrees at IU. I selected one who I had to travel over 100 miles to see who got his medical degree from Columbia and was president of the American Heart Association. He was also practicing at a top medical school, Northwestern, which was another factor in my selection.

 

[pu1985]

University of Chicago and Marquette University have the right idea and mindset. They are universities, not some semi-pro football team that the college finances. I'm also kind of tired of paying taxes for stadiums for pro teams that could care less about their fan base. .

So what if our football team suks. the revenue it generates doesn't go back to students or academics or the purpose of this land grant college. it goes back to athletics.

if you don't want to go to a Purdue football game because our team suks, then you are not really a very loyal Purdue fan, are you ? Green bay packers games have been sold out for over 50 years. the fans go for the brats and beer. they don't care about the outcome of the game. I met my future wife at a Purdue football game. I have no idea what the score was or if we won. My mind was focused elsewhere.

you have 50 people in this forum that want a winning football team. are any of you rich enough to put your money where your mouth is ? You have over 50,000 fans who went to the game knowing Purdue was a bad team, but were loyal fans.

let's be realistic about our future. the BIG 10 just added Washington, Oregon, USC and UCLA. they may add two more from Texas A&M, FSU, Miami, Notre Dame, Duke and North Carolina. Do you envision Purdue beating any of those teams on a consistent basis ? The BIG 10 doesn't really care about Purdue's problems winning ball games. Can you see Purdue becoming a winning team any time soon ? and if they don't become a winning team, will you accept them for what they are and still support them ? Or are you just a band wagon fan who only likes winning teams ?

you send out a bat signal to Drew Brees to save us, save us save us... But all it seems you want him to do is give money and pick a coach. It's kind of clear that Drew really doesn't want to be a coach or an AD . let him live his life. why don't you have Ivey on your speed dial and ask him for some money. there are a few other former Purdue players still alive . Have any of them shown any ability to coach ? what's Woodson doing these days ? what's Herrman doing ?

if people believe an 80 year old guy can be President, surely an 80 year old can be a Purdue football coach. Barry Alverez is still alive. go get him. or how about Jerry Jones. he's football savvy. and he knows how to spend money. or maybe snoop dog or the pummel horse guy. or that janitor that can sing. he seems qualified enough. and he's a winner. he probably knows the words to Hail Purdue.

What. The. Holy. Hell…..

 

[awthomps]

I'm not understanding how Purdue's brilliant, innovative idea to freeze in-state tuition would in any way be harmed by more substantive investment in football... Purdue has engaged in multiple high-priced intercollegiate sports upgrades in the 14 years of the tuition freeze, with no diminution (that I'm aware of) in the quality of the university's academics:

*a spectacular upgrade to Mackey Arena;
* a spectacular upgrade to Ross-Ade;
* spectacular new baseball and softball facilities;
* spectacular re-design of our golf courses (Purdue has probably the premier collegiate golf facility (in terms of the quality of the courses) in the country;
* swimming and diving ;
*Tennis;
*womens' soccer

How in the world could all this sports spending have occurred, all while maintaining the in-state tuition freeze??

You’ve clearly lost the thread, the argument I was refuting was that Purdue should add special student fees (bye bye tuition freeze and the reasons behind it) or take taxpayer dollars from the state to throw at football.

You’ve made the case for me, our athletic department has done all of these things without demanding money from the academic side of the university. And now there’s millions more pouring in from tv … we should not be asking campus, students, or the legislature to cover athletics costs.

 

[awthomps]

And drives admissions.

They really don’t, there are zero studies that suggest there is any meaningful relationship between athletic success and applications. You also have to understand that the die hard student fans are rare now compared to when we went to Purdue. Most students go to 1 game a year, because it’s expensive and we suck at football. The stadium looks full because there are 2x as many students at Purdue now.

 

[FiveWeight]

They really don’t, there are zero studies that suggest there is any meaningful relationship between athletic success and applications. You also have to understand that the die hard student fans are rare now compared to when we went to Purdue. Most students go to 1 game a year, because it’s expensive and we suck at football. The stadium looks full because there are 2x as many students at Purdue now.

Well, the Purdue folks at college fairs are telling us otherwise. They’re getting a lot more applications, and it’s coincided very much with top rankings in basketball. But also because Purdue is a major tech school, and STEM majors are starting to get recognized as a good investment while a lot of other programs are not. The competition to get into engineering or computer science majors has gone through the roof and they have adjusted their admissions bar accordingly. Most of the engineers I’ve known who’ve gone to Purdue probably wouldn’t qualify if they had to use their high school record to apply today, based on GPA and test scores those Purdue recruiters are saying you need to have to get accepted.

And I keep hearing people say there’s more students now, but every time I look up the number it’s the same as it’s always been since i was there 20 years ago, about 40,000 undergrads give or take on the main campus. There is a housing shortage, but I don’t know why. There’s more students at branch campuses now.

 

[awthomps]

Well, the Purdue folks at college fairs are telling us otherwise. They’re getting a lot more applications, and it’s coincided very much with top rankings in basketball. But also because Purdue is a major tech school, and STEM majors are starting to get recognized as a good investment while a lot of other programs are not. The competition to get into engineering or computer science majors has gone through the roof and they have adjusted their admissions bar accordingly. Most of the engineers I’ve known who’ve gone to Purdue probably wouldn’t qualify if they had to use their high school record to apply today, based on GPA and test scores those Purdue recruiters are saying you need to have to get accepted.

And I keep hearing people say there’s more students now, but every time I look up the number it’s the same as it’s always been since i was there 20 years ago, about 40,000 undergrads give or take on the main campus. There is a housing shortage, but I don’t know why. There’s more students at branch campuses now.

Campus has added 20,000 students since 2018, when we had 33,000 total students (this is how we’ve set enrollment records every year since). And the reason for Purdue applications going up has nothing to do with sports, it’s simple: high quality education at half the price of other schools. It won’t last forever, as infrastructure is crumbling under the growth so some president will be forced to make up the gap. Meanwhile housing costs make the actual cost of attendance nearly as expensive as other schools, so our selling point of low cost is going away.

 

[RossMackey]

You’ve clearly lost the thread, the argument I was refuting was that Purdue should add special student fees (bye bye tuition freeze and the reasons behind it) or take taxpayer dollars from the state to throw at football.

You’ve made the case for me, our athletic department has done all of these things without demanding money from the academic side of the university. And now there’s millions more pouring in from tv … we should not be asking campus, students, or the legislature to cover athletics costs.

I’ll stand completely corrected and stfu about this if it’s true that every one of the projects I mentioned were Totally privately- funded, with no university investment…
But I have a hard time believing that.

 

[awthomps]

I’ll stand completely corrected and stfu about this if it’s true that every one of the projects I mentioned were Totally privately- funded, with no university investment…
But I have a hard time believing that.

Not picking a fight, but Boilermakers are unbelievable in their support of our university. Very little happens without donors, and as far as athletics facilities it’s amazing what alumni have done for student athletes. Believe it!

Ross Ade - 100% donor funded https://www.purdue.edu/bot/meetings/past-meetings/2022/03. april /pfc/Ross-Ade Renovation.pdf

Golf course upgrade - 100% donor funded https://purduesports.com/news/2023/2/21/general-clubhouse-construction-coming-soon-to-cherry-lane

Mackey renovation - 100% donor funded

Board of Trustees Approves $6.7 Million in Renovations of Mackey Arena - Purdue Boilermakers

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - The Purdue University Board of Trustees has approved a plan for improvements to historic Mackey Arena as the men's and women's basketb...

purduesports.com

And the big Mackey renovation in 2008: https://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2008a/080118CordovaMackey.html

Alexander field - donor funded

Purdue Campus Facilities and Buildings Historic Database

Documenting the historic grounds and buildings of the Purdue University West Lafayette campus area.

collections.lib.purdue.edu

 

[Wolegib]

I forgot to add Purdue University provides one of the best job placement services in the country. Just think how much that would cost a person if they were not a student at Purdue. A lot of major corporations only interview Purdue University students.

 

[FiveWeight]

Well, the Purdue folks at college fairs are telling us otherwise. They’re getting a lot more applications, and it’s coincided very much with top rankings in basketball. But also because Purdue is a major tech school, and STEM majors are starting to get recognized as a good investment while a lot of other programs are not. The competition to get into engineering or computer science majors has gone through the roof and they have adjusted their admissions bar accordingly. Most of the engineers I’ve known who’ve gone to Purdue probably wouldn’t qualify if they had to use their high school record to apply today, based on GPA and test scores those Purdue recruiters are saying you need to have to get accepted.

And I keep hearing people say there’s more students now, but every time I look up the number it’s the same as it’s always been since i was there 20 years ago, about 40,000 undergrads give or take on the main campus. There is a housing shortage, but I don’t know why. There’s more students at branch campuses now.

I call BS on one of the facts presented here, after a fact check. The number I had been thinking when I was a student was 30k not 40k. Accounting for proportional graduate enrollment and staff increases would probably explain a nearly 20k population increase. And that answers my own curiosity about the housing shortage.

 

[MichaelRR]

Because the Indiana state legislature wisely passed a law many decades ago prohibiting state funded schools from using tuition or state provided monies for athletics. That's also why Purdue is considered a great school and Alabama that heavily subsidizes their sports teams is considered a very poor school for academics.

 

[Tommaker]

Because the Indiana state legislature wisely passed a law many decades ago prohibiting state funded schools from using tuition or state provided monies for athletics. That's also why Purdue is considered a great school and Alabama that heavily subsidizes their sports teams is considered a very poor school for academics.

Iu gets around part of that by having their coaches as part of school staff, don't they? I seem to remember seeing/reading State of Indiana payroll lists that show the basketball coach (and now the football coach) as the highest paid state employees?

 

[TC4THREE]

Iu gets around part of that by having their coaches as part of school staff, don't they? I seem to remember seeing/reading State of Indiana payroll lists that show the basketball coach (and now the football coach) as the highest paid state employees?

Also something called student activities fees was a thing at one point in time. Not sure if it still is or not.