Where does the Purdue basketball coaching job rank in the Big Ten?

[TC4THREE]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...tball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html

According to Teddy Greenstein, 8th. Right in the middle of the pack.

This is obviously subjective and even Greenstein acknowledges they could be as high as 4th but this should be a reality check to some of you who think we have no limitations and our coach should be able to land any recruit we go after.

 

[SnowLeopard]

We live in a free market, so I think the salaries are as good a proxy as any

1. Michigan State
2. Indiana
3. Michigan
4. Ohio State
5. virtual tie between Purdue and Maryland

Sounds about right

 

[*4purdue*]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...tball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html

According to Teddy Greenstein, 8th. Right in the middle of the pack.

This is obviously subjective and even Greenstein acknowledges they could be as high as 4th but this should be a reality check to some of you who think we have no limitations and our coach should be able to land any recruit we go after.

I really think it's funny that people think IU is the top job in the B1G. IU fans think it's the best job in the nation... the problem is, the people they offer the job to don't think so. I'm not sure there is 1 school right now that you could say is the best in the B1G. I would probably group the schools in tiers rather than rank them. This is not the 1980's when every kid went to IU & when they ran out of scholarships, they went to Purdue. IU is not a premier job anymore... the hiring of Sampson & Crean are perfect examples. I remember IU fans thinking they were going to get Few, Majerius, Izzo, etc.... over the last 17 years. If I had to group the schools that are the best jobs, I would put them in like this:

Tier 1) Illinois, MSU, OSU, UM, IU, Purdue, Wisconsin, Maryland
Tier 2) NW, PSU, Neb., Rutgers, Minnesota, Iowa,

 

[BoilerBiker]

We live in a free market, so I think the salaries are as good a proxy as any

1. Michigan State
2. Indiana
3. Michigan
4. Ohio State
5. virtual tie between Purdue and Maryland

Sounds about right

painter is 6th soon to be 7th rank in pay in the big ten
(Illinois has now surpassed too)

just in conference, painter ranks barely above maryland and nebraska.
i would imagine gard will be receiving a nice bump soon as well, which could put purdue ranked 7th.

plus consider non conference peers like mizzou who already courted painter before, and are now paying 3m for martin (who apparently many here feel is overrated).
places like 'bama who don't prioritize basketball went after guys like a.johnson and are paying 2.8m.
plus smaller schools like wichita st paying 3.3m

big ten coach - salary
izzo 4.1
matta 3.4
crean (was) 3.1
underwood 3
beilein 2.8
painter 2.4
turgeon 2.3
miles 2.1
mccaffery 2
gard 1.8

 

[FirstDownB]

All a matter of opinion. Different strokes for different folks. Who wants to step into a job situation where your customers can never be satisfied? Middle of the pack in a high major conference can be a pretty attractive place to be as long as competitive pay and resources are provided. I'd take our situation right now over IU's upcoming roll of the dice.

 

[NVBoilerFan]

All a matter of opinion. Different strokes for different folks. Who wants to step into a job situation where your customers can never be satisfied? Middle of the pack in a high major conference can be a pretty attractive place to be as long as competitive pay and resources are provided. I'd take our situation right now over IU's upcoming roll of the dice.

I know most of their message board delusionals won't admit it, but many IU fans I know personally would love to have Matt as their coach. They don't like Purdue because it's Purdue, but they also understand he would be a major upgrade to what they have had recently.

 

[Boiler Buck]

ILL #1
OSU #2
Wisky #3
MN #4
MSU #5
iu #6
Illinois is the school with the largest cap as far as talent base and lack of instate competition. Followed by OSU with all the talent in Ohio. The only other big conference school in IL is NW and they have problems with facilities & the requirements for admission being a highly academic school. OSU has no other B1G schools in state, but does have Cincy & X as big conference schools. At ILL & OSU if you can lock down even 1/4 the major league talent that comes through those states you are sitting pretty. Those are the #1 & #2 jobs if I was coaching. Wisky only B1G team close to Chicago and Milwaukee talent bases. Only other Big conference school is Marquette. MN only big conference school however only talent pool is the hometown which has decent talent, but not sure enough. At MSU you have to compete in state with MICH for recruits, but you do currently have hapless recruiters in Indiana you can steal recruits from the state of Indiana. For the right guy like Alford iu could be a great school with the way the media is w/iu....but the last 5 coaches have been flops there, so it needs to be the right guy.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I don't think that Purdue is an above average job in the Big Ten, but the program has had good coaches that make it seem that way.

 

[BoilerGal74]

But note, Matta, (and I use him as an example because he has been around the B1G and the Midwest ..i.e. Butler, for a good while)supposedly listed Purdue as one of 2 schools he wanted the right to interview with...Not MSU, Michigan, Illinois, etc. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

 

[rgarlitz]

No way I'd rank Maryland #2 --- not based on its history, its present, or its location. Mark Turgeon is a fine coach and so was Gary Williams. But the school's resources are inferior to Michigan and Ohio State; it's history in the NCAA tournament is only marginally better than Illinois and Purdue; neither its arena nor fan base is obviously superior to Wisconsin.

I wouldn't rank Northwestern over Minnesota.
I wouldn't rank either Rutgers (and its 0 NCAA appearances since 1992) and Nebraska (and its 0 all-time NCAA wins) over Penn State.

Understanding that there's always some fluidity to these rankings, right now, I'd probably go with:

Tier 1: Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Ohio State
Tier 2: Michigan, Purdue, Maryland, Illinois
Tier 3: Iowa, Minnesota
Tier 4: Northwestern, Penn State, Nebraska, Rutgers

 

[TC4THREE]

I don't get the Wisconsin job being ranked so highly. Bo Ryan did a phenomenal job there but I don't see how that position is set up better for success than several of the other they have ranked below it.

 

[rgarlitz]

I don't get the Wisconsin job being ranked so highly. Bo Ryan did a phenomenal job there but I don't see how that position is set up better for success than several of the other they have ranked below it.

Great arena and fan base, recent history of success in the NCAA tournament, abundant resources, not really in the shadow of any other major programs

It would be interesting to poll coaches nation-wide on this question. I have no data, of course, but I suspect that most would take the Wisconsin job over the Purdue job.

 

[TC4THREE]

Great arena and fan base, recent history of success in the NCAA tournament, abundant resources, not really in the shadow of any other major programs

It would be interesting to poll coaches nation-wide on this question. I have no data, of course, but I suspect that most would take the Wisconsin job over the Purdue job.

Maybe. I consider them to be roughly the same level.

 

[rgarlitz]

Maybe. I consider them to be roughly the same level.

Ya, I think that's the problem with these rankings. They tend to imply objective distinctions and a clear linear progression.

 

[Indy_Rider]

Anymore, no one job is better than any other, other than pay and money spent on the program. That's about the only way you can rank them because with media coverage the way it is and technology, you can build a successful program anywhere and turn it into a top program with the right coach. So aside from moving to a program that maybe willing to give you a larger budget and more resources, there is very little reason for a coach to move as because in basketball, you can be just as successful at a mid-major as major college program.

Look no further than Gonzaga and Butler if you don't agree.

 

[TC4THREE]

Anymore, no one job is better than any other, other than pay and money spent on the program. That's about the only way you can rank them because with media coverage the way it is and technology, you can build a successful program anywhere and turn it into a top program with the right coach. So aside from moving to a program that maybe willing to give you a larger budget and more resources, there is very little reason for a coach to move as because in basketball, you can be just as successful at a mid-major as major college program.

Look no further than Gonzaga and Butler if you don't agree.

I tend to focus on access to recruits. A coach is going to be the same coach at most any program he goes to but how does each program help him land the best players. That is how I rank the positions.

All these comparable Big Ten jobs are going to give a coach the resources they need. All of them are going to have a supportive fan base for a winning coach. But is it easier for a new coach to land a recruit at IU or at Wisconsin? Maryland or Purdue? Michigan or Illinois? Michigan State or Ohio State? I think that has much to do with the perception of each program in the general public in the area that they recruit. You can say NCAA tournament success if you want but I tend to think of that as a function of the current coach rather than what a prospective coach can expect. You can cite Wisconsin's recent NCAAT success but that was because Bo Ryan was one hell of a coach. That new coach has to try to get Bo Ryan results with whatever recruits he can get to sign on with him at Wisconsin and I don't see what Wisconsin offers that would help them land recruits over a program like Michigan or Ohio State.

 

[PU pit bull]

ILL #1
OSU #2
Wisky #3
MN #4
MSU #5
iu #6
Illinois is the school with the largest cap as far as talent base and lack of instate competition. Followed by OSU with all the talent in Ohio. The only other big conference school in IL is NW and they have problems with facilities & the requirements for admission being a highly academic school. OSU has no other B1G schools in state, but does have Cincy & X as big conference schools. At ILL & OSU if you can lock down even 1/4 the major league talent that comes through those states you are sitting pretty. Those are the #1 & #2 jobs if I was coaching. Wisky only B1G team close to Chicago and Milwaukee talent bases. Only other Big conference school is Marquette. MN only big conference school however only talent pool is the hometown which has decent talent, but not sure enough. At MSU you have to compete in state with MICH for recruits, but you do currently have hapless recruiters in Indiana you can steal recruits from the state of Indiana. For the right guy like Alford iu could be a great school with the way the media is w/iu....but the last 5 coaches have been flops there, so it needs to be the right guy.

I wonder what IU will do with a guy like Billy Donovan.............rumors are that it is a done deal, and they ponied up $$$. Rumors, of course......but there does seem to be some smoke. Maybe it's pot LOL. Who knows. Alford is last on most of the true IU fans/boosters list..........dead last.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I wonder what IU will do with a guy like Billy Donovan.............rumors are that it is a done deal, and they ponied up $$$. Rumors, of course......but there does seem to be some smoke. Maybe it's pot LOL. Who knows. Alford is last on most of the true IU fans/boosters list..........dead last.

The right guy @ iu can start to lock down many of the Indiana recruits heading out of state. I think Billy D. might be that guy. We will see. The media will sure do everything they can to help him. But. after that the culture @ iu needs to be improved....they just aren't tough anymore....and seem unwilling to take D seriously.

As right now Painter, Brey and Holtman have not been able to lock down the borders and let many big-time recruit's slip away.

And of course of those 3, I am more concerned about Painter slipping on all the big-time talent in Indiana other than anything iu does. But the right guy @ iu won't help that.

 

[PU pit bull]

The right guy @ iu can start to lock down many of the Indiana recruits heading out of state. I think Billy D. might be that guy. We will see. The media will sure do everything they can to help him. But. after that the culture @ iu needs to be improved....they just aren't tough anymore....and seem unwilling to take D seriously.

As right now Painter, Brey and Holtman have not been able to lock down the borders and let many big-time recruit's slip away.

And of course of those 3, I am more concerned about Painter slipping on all the big-time talent in Indiana other than anything iu does. But the right guy @ iu won't help that.

I don't envy the next coach at IU.........the fanbase, the circus, etc. is over the top. "It's Indiana" after all LOL. I'm sure Billy will be paid handsomely.........shoot right up to the top of the BIG.......probably right up there nationally. But they will expect results immediately. As much as I didn't care for Crean, he actually had decent numbers after his first few years. Oh well, that's more than enough IU talk LOL..............BTFU!

 

[Dakota Girl]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...tball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html

According to Teddy Greenstein, 8th. Right in the middle of the pack.

This is obviously subjective and even Greenstein acknowledges they could be as high as 4th but this should be a reality check to some of you who think we have no limitations and our coach should be able to land any recruit we go after.

Occupied

 

[greenpeach]

But note, Matta, (and I use him as an example because he has been around the B1G and the Midwest ..i.e. Butler, for a good while)supposedly listed Purdue as one of 2 schools he wanted the right to interview with...Not MSU, Michigan, Illinois, etc. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

Gene Keady once said that OSU & Illinois were the two best jobs in the Big Ten. TIFWI W

 

[BoilerFan#35]

At the moment:
1. MSU
2. Indiana
3. OSU
4. Michigan
5. Wisky/Purdue
7. Ill

 

[chitownUofI05]

I don't really get how "at the moment" or "right now" factors into this ... if a job is good or has potential, who cares if an incompetent coach couldn't capitalize on it? The same potential is at OSU or Maryland if they have a bad coach for a decade, right?

 

[Indy_Rider]

I tend to focus on access to recruits. A coach is going to be the same coach at most any program he goes to but how does each program help him land the best players. That is how I rank the positions.

All these comparable Big Ten jobs are going to give a coach the resources they need. All of them are going to have a supportive fan base for a winning coach. But is it easier for a new coach to land a recruit at IU or at Wisconsin? Maryland or Purdue? Michigan or Illinois? Michigan State or Ohio State? I think that has much to do with the perception of each program in the general public in the area that they recruit. You can say NCAA tournament success if you want but I tend to think of that as a function of the current coach rather than what a prospective coach can expect. You can cite Wisconsin's recent NCAAT success but that was because Bo Ryan was one hell of a coach. That new coach has to try to get Bo Ryan results with whatever recruits he can get to sign on with him at Wisconsin and I don't see what Wisconsin offers that would help them land recruits over a program like Michigan or Ohio State.

If you are winning and the coach can connect with the players, location doesn't matter. Kansas is in the middle of nowhere yet they continually pull in players.

The real key to how good a job is and how successful the program is, you could make a strong argument that is all about the AD. The AD's ability to recognize and hire the right coach and in some cases replace the coach. Their ability to foster and help develop a good atmosphere. And probably most important, not just their ability to fund a program, but to fund the right aspects properly as just throwing money at it doesn't guarantee a winner, there are certain areas that are more key than others and the AD has to be able to identify them and fund it properly.

You really can't judge a program by the name on the front of the jersey and say that's a top job and they will always be successful anymore. Things are much more in flux than ever before and programs can rise and fall quickly with one right or wrong decision.

Fall to far, it can be a slow climb back up to rebuild the brand as people have short memories anymore.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Gene Keady once said that OSU & Illinois were the two best jobs in the Big Ten. TIFWI W

Yep, just more talent pool there.....obviously a coach has to one be an effective coach and an effective recruiter. But the talent pool is there for the taking of the right coach while making sure guys selected fit his system. I am glad Gene Keady saw that too.....any objective person would.

 

[Indy_Rider]

As right now Painter, Brey and Holtman have not been able to lock down the borders and let many big-time recruit's slip away.

And of course of those 3, I am more concerned about Painter slipping on all the big-time talent in Indiana other than anything iu does. But the right guy @ iu won't help that.

I don't think it is as easy to lock down the state any more as it used to be. These kids now grow up playing basketball all over the country, so they are used to the travel and don't view leaving the state as a big deal. I would say more often than not, they just want to leave the state and go somewhere else.

Kids today are not the home bodies they used to be with intrepidation of leaving home for the first time in their lives.

 

[FirstDownB]

I don't think it is as easy to lock down the state any more as it used to be. These kids now grow up playing basketball all over the country, so they are used to the travel and don't view leaving the state as a big deal. I would say more often than not, they just want to leave the state and go somewhere else.

Kids today are not the home bodies they used to be with intrepidation of leaving home for the first time in their lives.

There has been some good discussion on this topic in regards to recruits going out of state. I am convinced that the idea of locking down state borders is a thing of the past in college basketball. You just don't see it anymore. Elite programs are recruiting on the national stage because they can. Because they have a coach that can pull players from anytown, USA. If IU gets one of those coaches then they will get more of the top talent from Indiana if they choose to focus here, but would likely be able to pull talent from elsewhere just the same. I am not convinced IU is going to get one of those coaches.

 

[lbodel]

All a matter of opinion. Different strokes for different folks. Who wants to step into a job situation where your customers can never be satisfied? Middle of the pack in a high major conference can be a pretty attractive place to be as long as competitive pay and resources are provided. I'd take our situation right now over IU's upcoming roll of the dice.

Exactly. If you asked this question in 2005 when Illinois made it to the national championship game in Bruce Weber's second season, you would have thought that Illinois is a helluva program. You had a great fan base, great recruiting, etc. - but obviously that didn't turn out so hot.

And like you said, the right fit. I think Purdue has some unique aspects of it and I think Painter's transition happened so well because he knew it, had someone to help guide him if he needed (Keady and Weber quite frankly) - not to mention the full backing.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

I don't really get how "at the moment" or "right now" factors into this ... if a job is good or has potential, who cares if an incompetent coach couldn't capitalize on it? The same potential is at OSU or Maryland if they have a bad coach for a decade, right?

Uhhh the state of the programs. Harder to rebuild programs now with kids leaving their home states to go to blue bloods all the time.

 

[TC4THREE]

If you are winning and the coach can connect with the players, location doesn't matter. Kansas is in the middle of nowhere yet they continually pull in players.

The real key to how good a job is and how successful the program is, you could make a strong argument that is all about the AD. The AD's ability to recognize and hire the right coach and in some cases replace the coach. Their ability to foster and help develop a good atmosphere. And probably most important, not just their ability to fund a program, but to fund the right aspects properly as just throwing money at it doesn't guarantee a winner, there are certain areas that are more key than others and the AD has to be able to identify them and fund it properly.

You really can't judge a program by the name on the front of the jersey and say that's a top job and they will always be successful anymore. Things are much more in flux than ever before and programs can rise and fall quickly with one right or wrong decision.

Fall to far, it can be a slow climb back up to rebuild the brand as people have short memories anymore.

Location isn't everything but there is also a program prestige factor that might be somewhat independent of the coach. A program like Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC will always be a good coach away from being a national contender. Not sure I believe that about Rutgers or Mississippi State.

 

[Upright Hoosier]

I know most of their message board delusionals won't admit it, but many IU fans I know personally would love to have Matt as their coach. They don't like Purdue because it's Purdue, but they also understand he would be a major upgrade to what they have had recently.

As an IU fan myself, I know a lot of IU fans as well. Nearly all of them (myself included) think - and have long thought - that Painter was a superior tactician and basketball coach than Crean. Most fans I know were so frustrated with Crean that they very likely would have traded Crean for Painter a dozen times over if given the chance. That said, none of the fans I know "would love to have Matt" as the head coach. He has his limitations as well, particularly in relationships and recruiting. But this isn't the thread for that discussion.

Not trying to be a dick or start a squabble on your own board, but "love" is far too strong of a word; just giving a first-hand IU fan report. I will give credit where it's due though - Painter is a good coach, well respected by his peers, and Purdue faired better than a lot of people (me included) and experts projected them. Congrats on a good season. If Purdue makes the Elite 8 they will have truly earned it; Kansas is no slouch. Good luck and may the best team win.

 

[Indy_Rider]

Location isn't everything but there is also a program prestige factor that might be somewhat independent of the coach. A program like Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC will always be a good coach away from being a national contender. Not sure I believe that about Rutgers or Mississippi State.

Rutgers and Mississippi State are a good coach away, the thing is schools like that has a much smaller margin for error. So getting the coach right is a far more important factor where as UNC went through a few coaches between Dean and Roy, so did Kentucky between Pitino and Calipari.

UCLA is probably about as good as an example as you can get as to how hard it can be, they are about as a historic program as there is, you'd think is in a good location, but aside from the occasional blip every now and then, you can't really say they are a national power.