Don't know what CMP doing with the substitutions at the end with Edey.
Leave him in there coach...D@mn...
Substitute for Loyer if you want to sub...
Leave him in there coach...D@mn...
Substitute for Loyer if you want to sub...
What's With Edey's Odd Substitution???
- Thread starter BoilerInChiTown
- Start date
Penn State was going small....probably ok if Purdue made some FT's (Morton and Loyer went 1-6).....Purdue also had two point blank misses.....everything going wrong. Think I would have rolled with ZE until it got below 10.......if it ever would have been that low. Hindsight is 20/20, though.
PS had 5 guys that can shoot the 3. Paint went with TKR on D thinking he is better equipped to guard the 3, but then substituteed Zach in for offense.
Probably some statistics that say it's smart, but I liked Zach better.
When we are pressed....why in the hell are we always looking to immediately to pass the ball back to Smith....everytime the balls inbounded ........the sideline is open to advance the ball across the timeline....but every damn time we stand there holding the ball Allowing the double team! Then it becomes a sh## show.....we have 4 guys on most occasions in the back court clogging it up! Maddening!!
That reminds me of the Arkansas-Little Rock game a few years ago when he basically did the same thing, trying to go small to match their quickness. He obviously knows more than I ever will but sometimes it seems he worries too much about trying to counter the other teams strength then making them worry about countering his.
Purdue was up about 15 I think with 6minutes? Most teams won’t intentionally foul with that time left until 3 minutes or so. From 6 to 3 minutes each team may have 4 maybe 5 possessions? Would PSU score every possession and would Purdue come up empty every possession? I doubt Matt really wanted Zach and Braden to have to play in the final minutes. 3 games in 3 days and then a total of 5 games in a week is a lot of wear and tear for those two and so there is coaching the game at hand as well as a few days from now.
It would have done wonders had others closed it out in case Zach or Braden gets in foul trouble in the tourney, but kids need to not rest, hit FTs and not make really bad passes
The problem was that with the Penn State lineup, Zach was basically forced to guard a guard, or at worst Myles Dread. That's problematic when Penn State needs 3s and will press.
I actually would have rather seen Furst and Gillis in there together instead of TKR.
I actually would have rather seen Furst and Gillis in there together instead of TKR.
My wife, Purdue grad and casual basketball fan, asked, “why would you keep taking out your best player?”
Uh….
Took another look at the stats - Purdue's starting backcourt was 2/20 for the game....and they still won. 7 total turnovers (pretty good but three killers down the stretch). Ethan Morton and Fletcher Loyer go 1-6 from the FT line down the stretch.
A mixed bag - Seth Lundy flat out balled today with some pretty good defense from Purdue, and the Boilers did a really nice job on all-conference Jalen Pickett (who should make some AA teams). Also, Funk made some slips and lay-ups but no threes....Purdue's defense and getting a boost from Jenks turned the tide, and Zachen was his usual monstrous self.
I get as frustrated as most with the roller coaster - get me off this dang ride sometimes.....but a little more perspective.......who had this group of young men winning the Big Ten conference championship outright and the BTT title before the season? and now a #1-seed in the NCAA Tournament. The Big Ten season is a grinder, probably even more than any other conference, but yeah - I may be biased on that.
We shall see starting on Friday, but regardless of how the NCAA Tournament plays out - well done Boilers - deserving conference champs.
And I know it's hard to be patient - still building.......now with that - this season aint done yet - let's see what the Boilers have left in the tank.....they have battled all year.
A mixed bag - Seth Lundy flat out balled today with some pretty good defense from Purdue, and the Boilers did a really nice job on all-conference Jalen Pickett (who should make some AA teams). Also, Funk made some slips and lay-ups but no threes....Purdue's defense and getting a boost from Jenks turned the tide, and Zachen was his usual monstrous self.
I get as frustrated as most with the roller coaster - get me off this dang ride sometimes.....but a little more perspective.......who had this group of young men winning the Big Ten conference championship outright and the BTT title before the season? and now a #1-seed in the NCAA Tournament. The Big Ten season is a grinder, probably even more than any other conference, but yeah - I may be biased on that.
We shall see starting on Friday, but regardless of how the NCAA Tournament plays out - well done Boilers - deserving conference champs.
And I know it's hard to be patient - still building.......now with that - this season aint done yet - let's see what the Boilers have left in the tank.....they have battled all year.
Last edited:
I have a legitimate question about this strategy. I understand not wanting Zach to guard a guard, but wouldn't that then mean a guard would need to guard Edey in return?
It feels like you're letting the other coach pick your lineup, which I would think would give your opponent a huge advantage.
I think Matt would play that game until teh end. Kinda like letting this guy shoot in high school, but when the game is on the line and you know ONE make beats you...you now defend him which you might not if the game was several possessions. Matt looked at possessions available I believe, and it added to his concern for the 3 ball EVEN more than the 2 previously. Matt prefers to win by a lot, but will take a one point win if it happens. Sometimes the ball bounces your way and other times it doesn't. No doubt Matt wanted to not put Zach in and ride out the win, but the play didn't allow it and so Zach and Braden played more at the end than desired. It would have been great for the others to win it with them on the bench with a press and such to help their independent experiences of meeting the moment...but that never happened
You also take your rim protector and best rebounder off the floor.
Not worrying about guarding the rim at that time, worrying about guarding the 3 pt line.
You could easily have the other 4 zone the arc and have Zach protect the hoop and rebound.
Last edited:
What I would do if I were on Offense with 5 on 4 and wanted to get open I would screen with my extra body to get a player a shot since Purdue was short one to cover the offensive player since the only defender was screened and the offensive player has no defender in position to defend, that other Purdue defender is under the rim. I would have done this with Nojel when they weren't guarding Nojel. I would have used Nojel to create shots for others since Nojel never had another defender to cover Nojel's teammate. Lots of ways people might try things, but the bottom line is...right or wrong...Matt was more worried about losing the lead due to the 3 ball than the 2 and thought Purdue would still score.
The game has lots of scenarios that allow for a lot of give and take afterwards and who is to say what is the most efficient plans for the two teams at the time?
We're focusing a lot on their defense with the press and how it bothered us. I will also point out that on the possessions where we did get it into the front court, our offense against their zone was awful. If we just score on a couple of those possessions there isn't any last second drama.
For those that don't think mixing up defenses makes a difference, you saw what it can do. It wasn't just the press that was bothering us.
For those that don't think mixing up defenses makes a difference, you saw what it can do. It wasn't just the press that was bothering us.
I don't remember that Funk guy hitting any 3's vs Purdue this year, was off in Mackey and at the Palestra didn't do much
you're right, we would finally get it to the front court then took along time to figure out things and then force a shot w/ 2 secs left on clock
YES!
Both Newman and Gillis dont' trust their dribble. Newman could easily have dribbled across the timeline under light pressure, but stopped and threw it backward several times down the stretch.
Mason would get the 2nd pass and have guys with a step streaking over the time line but was afraid to throw the pass and instead threw it backwards, again multiple times.........
If you catch the 2nd pass you can't throw the ball BACKWARDS to the guy that just passed it FORWARD to you!!!!!!!!
Answer to your question: Because Braden is the ONLY player on the floor confident in his handles against pressure.
Stunned by how bad Morton is at this aspect of the game.
He was 1-16 vs. Purdue this year
1-5 (Palestra)
0-6 (@ Purdue)
0-5 (BTT)
He was a 40.5% shooter from deep this year.....and Penn State's 3rd-leading scorer. A combination of Purdue defense and just flat out being off some, perhaps. Lundy made up for it yesterday.
By the way, he also went 7/12 (23 points) in their home game against Indiana in the regular season.....when he's on, not much you can do, I guess.
I still haven't looked at any stats yet.
Was aware of Funk getting some drives late in the game and knew the FT shooting was bad, but somewhere in that 6 to 3 minutes or so there must have been some quicker shots because nobody was defending them or possibly the wrong people shooting them when the clock is your friend. Matt is a bit more lenient what shots are taken where and by who than I am and yet I know with the clock you may not get a better spot with a better shooter sometimes. Anyway, I haven't looked at the last few minutes to see with fresher eyes what Purdue did to lose the huge lead . IU knew PSU wasn't going to foul so everything was to the basket quick...thanx Tex for lookin that up. Think we were fortunate that he wasn't a factor in any of the 3 games w/ them
Can we add the wrinkle to our press that Edey stands near center court as the secondary outlet to distribute to someone running the baseline?
We have a distinct advantage and Painter is determined to take it away from us
We have a distinct advantage and Painter is determined to take it away from us
I'd put him at the top of the key, even if ball would go thru his hands at least he'd be there to defend
True but Painter needs to introduce a new wrinkle for the tourney. Inbound > pass > pass > drive > toss to Edey for a dunk. The fact we do t make teams pay is confusing.
@ChoiceBeef I think the possibility has merit, but I'm unsure his passing would be effective. I'm not saying it won't but that I don't know. Early in the year Zach just went to the other end and posted up waiting for the pass and Purdue had no issues since the D wasn't as refined as today...along with more personnel question on Purdue before there was much "tape" . Seems odd stating "tape"...
I have no doubt Purdue has considered the pros and cons of such. I have no doubt the coaching staff is aware of all the options already mentioned in this forum and is either still considering such and possibly working on implementing such, or has ruled them out. We may see some new wrinkles in the tourney?
It depends on what type of press and how they play the press IMO. What little video I've seen on Memphis the pressure has been in man. If a man press...SPACE is even more crucial, but not too many teams will press man against Purdue unless like a last possession to deny the inbounds. One good ball handler that is a mismatch can break the man pressure. Course they could run&jump out of the man, but the "press" that is generally referred is a 2-2-1 and so if they bring one of the back 2 up to cover Zach then that sideline after teh first two (one spot of the -2) is open unless the -1 guy just matches up due to Zach's speed to contest a pass to Zach and still have the traps with the 2-2
I rewinded and watched the last 3 mins of the game. We made one turnover against the press and that was Newmans inexplicable pass right at the end to cut it to 1. Other than that, we broke the press beautifully and got a perfect Edey soft hook from 5 that he came up short on (that would have put the lead back to 8). Then next 2 trips Fletcher inexplicably misses 3 out of 4 ft's. Also in there was a Morton wide open 3 that he missed. You look at that sequence and figure half of those outcomes...we win by 8 or 10. Everyone is over-reacting about our handling the press on this game. True, we have had some problems in a few games this year but the media I think drove the narrative based on past history and the wild finish. It was more about the misses from the FT line and a couple other shots.
The media promotes hype and many value what the media says. I mentioned three and there were. Right after my post above ON3 came out with a video of Matt talking about the three that I mentioned...only he never mentioned names. Still, missing shots ...especially when it happens with clock doesn't change the score while increasing possessions. All three players that made mistakes I think are very valuable to Purdue. I'm glad you saw for yourself.
I bit my tongue because there will always be different takes on a game and I have no desire to denigrate a Boiler when many takes are emotional with people seeing what they want to believe. You will also see a vertical pass up the sideline by Brandon or Ethan as well as a 45 degree by Brandon...albeit a bit long since it went across court, but you like to see 45 degree looks that may end up being a good pass. William Randolph Hurst would be so proud of the talking heads...
edit below...just now saw you watched only the last 3 minutes.
The others may have happened a minutr or two before
What bothered me the most, was when that strategy didn't work, Painter kept doing it. He needed to make an in game adjustment, and didn't. It became a layup drill. You could drive a truck through the lane, it was so open. Then we had several offensive possessions without Edey on the floor. That strategy really backfired.
and doesn't give him time to get down the floor and establish post position.
Still, I think it's time for that. Gillis and Newman aren't good enough with the ball. Furst isn't playing. TKR hasn't done that yet.
Similar threads
