What's Purdue talking about?

[lbodel]

Rebounding.

I think this goes along with the other factors of the Vermont game - Vermont will likely not lose this game on their own, we will need to win it.

One of these factors is rebounding. Vermont's not a great rebounding team, but they do get a lot of offensive boards.

http://www.jconline.com/story/sport.../purdue-out-recover-rebounding-edge/99136854/

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Purdue's rebounding issue stems from how great Biggie is at rebounding. It seems, at times, other players simply assume Biggie will get a board and don't box out or put the effort in themselves. Frequently, that happens when Mathias isn't on the floor.

When Purduenhad made an effort, as a team, to box out and rebound...it typically doesn't have an issue.

 

[lbodel]

Purdue's rebounding issue stems from how great Biggie is at rebounding. It seems, at times, other players simply assume Biggie will get a board and don't box out or put the effort in themselves. Frequently, that happens when Mathias isn't on the floor.

When Purduenhad made an effort, as a team, to box out and rebound...it typically doesn't have an issue.

I'm not sure if that's the case. I could tell you a number of times where our own players were fighting Swanigan for a rebound because they were crashing the boards.

Our offense hasn't been as good at times - which give other teams an advantage on rebounding obviously. But we've also given up a good chunk of offensive rebounds in a number of games recently. That's what Vermont does pretty well at, so that needs to be limited.

That being said, a friendly reminder to crash the boards never hurts...

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

I think those offensive rebounds are being created by dribble penetration - we try to help, and are out of position. That opens up a lot of seams for our opponents to get the ball and the put back.

 

[depthcharge623]

Just from memory, it seems like the majority of the offensive rebounds we have given up recently were off of three point attempts, some of them long. The ball is more likely to pop out far away from the basket when this happens, giving the offensive team (who is back) a better chance at it. What can be done about this?

 

[FirstDownB]

I watched Vermont's game @UMBC, which they won by 3 (available on YouTube). They out-rebounded UMBC 34-18 and grabbed 12 offensive rebounds. Their rebounding completely made the difference in the game. I paid particular attention to the offensive rebounds and my observation is they weren't from a particular player or position or a result of a certain type of shot (long rebounds from 3 pointers, dribble drives, etc.). Rather it just seemed to be a concerted team effort to crash the boards. Some boards were grabbed by a forward in the paint (there were typically 3 of them in there when a shot went up), some were grabbed by a player running in from the perimeter, some were grabbed by a shooter following his shot. So, it is not as simple as just blocking out one or two guys. Our guards need to be an active part of this, and we need to have the mindset that the defensive possession is not over until we've secured the basketball.

If we match their hustle, team rebound, and make them pay for crashing the glass (i.e., pushing back with transition baskets) I don't think they have a chance. If we take for granted that Biggie or IH will go up against 3-4 guys and grab every rebound, we're in trouble.

 

[depthcharge623]

I think this means that all our guards and forwards need to channel their inner Spike. Or that Spike needs more minutes. That dude is a good rebounder.

 

[Heller]

Look at the competition they faced. Purdue should be fine f everyone plays to their strengths. The fact they had a double digit rebounding lead and win by so few points tells you the majority shoot like me at 67 years old. Box out and board. Plus we are much larger so we should out rebound them and this should be a double digit win.

 

[tjreese]

Purdue's rebounding issue stems from how great Biggie is at rebounding. It seems, at times, other players simply assume Biggie will get a board and don't box out or put the effort in themselves. Frequently, that happens when Mathias isn't on the floor.

When Purduenhad made an effort, as a team, to box out and rebound...it typically doesn't have an issue.

Very much so...it is as though sometimes it is all left to Biggie and so the opposing coach needs to make sure at least one person finds him all the time.

 

[tjreese]

I watched Vermont's game @UMBC, which they won by 3 (available on YouTube). They out-rebounded UMBC 34-18 and grabbed 12 offensive rebounds. Their rebounding completely made the difference in the game. I paid particular attention to the offensive rebounds and my observation is they weren't from a particular player or position or a result of a certain type of shot (long rebounds from 3 pointers, dribble drives, etc.). Rather it just seemed to be a concerted team effort to crash the boards. Some boards were grabbed by a forward in the paint (there were typically 3 of them in there when a shot went up), some were grabbed by a player running in from the perimeter, some were grabbed by a shooter following his shot. So, it is not as simple as just blocking out one or two guys. Our guards need to be an active part of this, and we need to have the mindset that the defensive possession is not over until we've secured the basketball.

If we match their hustle, team rebound, and make them pay for crashing the glass (i.e., pushing back with transition baskets) I don't think they have a chance. If we take for granted that Biggie or IH will go up against 3-4 guys and grab every rebound, we're in trouble.

If they devote a lot to teh boards, then there is less to stop Purdue in pushing the ball once you gather the rebound. It is a gamble and there will be some gambles to deal with Purdue's size. I'm sure they want to create turnovers if able, leave less time on the clock for Purdue to find the inside and yet not want enough possessions that the difference in teams is magnified. I know nothing about them, but would expect them to eat clock, try to create turnovers and leave little clock for Purdue to get the ball inside. Maybe a zone press that at least early doesn't steal passes, but slows the offense down and eats clock? All guesses on my part not knowing what Vermont has done in the past.

 

[mathboy]

If Vermont crashes the glass with all 5, then I expect a lot of fast break opportunities, especially with CE on the floor. Vermont will have trouble matching the cdown court speed of the ball in CE's hands.

 

[lbodel]

If Vermont crashes the glass with all 5, then I expect a lot of fast break opportunities, especially with CE on the floor. Vermont will have trouble matching the cdown court speed of the ball in CE's hands.

My sense is that they play a very vanilla game. They don't do anything amazingly well, but they don't do anything badly either. They don't run some complex offense, they run a basic man to man defense, etc.

I'm not sure how many "tricks" they'll deploy, very well could be a couple wrinkles as you typically can't go out and play an average game and win in their position. But they may do that at the beginning and see if Purdue shoots itself in the foot. The downfall of a lot of higher seeds is themselves in many cases, not the lower seed playing out of this world.

 

[PU pit bull]

It's a shame that no one from the Vermont side of things doesn't come over here and have some rational discussions about strengths/weaknesses, inside tidbits, etc. I guess it's better than having a bunch of turds over here.............wasn't it Tennessee fans?

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

I watched their championship game and the majority of their points came in the paint. They only took 3 pt shots be default. They prefer to drive into the paint in two specific ways:

1.) They curl into the top of the paint, and have another guard trailing the play on the other side of where they are at in the paint to receive the pass if the first guard is stopped. It gives them a much better chance of getting an open shot or a better drive. (note: The first guard seldom shot because they ran into help)
2.) A wing curls into the middle of the paint

In both situations, they look for a backdoor cut on the weak side. So I agree with FirstdownB in that by the time the shot goes up, it's a short shot and they have 3 around the ball (including the backdoor cutter) They then rotate the other two players to the opposite corner and to the top of the key. The game convinced me they have become fairly adept at 2-4 ft passes in the paint. If they don't drive 90% of the time, I will be surprised. They would be completely dunbfounded if we pulled a zone on them ! . . since their whole offense is driving. (at least in that game)

I would not be surprised to see them play something new this time, like a 1-3-1 in order to make it difficult to feed the post and set up our 3 pt shooters, since we torched them before. (At least thats what I would do given the last encounter)

 

[tjreese]

I watched their championship game and the majority of their points came in the paint. They only took 3 pt shots be default. They prefer to drive into the paint in two specific ways:

1.) They curl into the top of the paint, and have another guard trailing the play on the other side of where they are at in the paint to receive the pass if the first guard is stopped. It gives them a much better chance of getting an open shot or a better drive. (note: The first guard seldom shot because they ran into help)
2.) A wing curls into the middle of the paint

In both situations, they look for a backdoor cut on the weak side. So I agree with FirstdownB in that by the time the shot goes up, it's a short shot and they have 3 around the ball (including the backdoor cutter) They then rotate the other two players to the opposite corner and to the top of the key. The game convinced me they have become fairly adept at 2-4 ft passes in the paint. If they don't drive 90% of the time, I will be surprised. They would be completely dunbfounded if we pulled a zone on them ! . . since their whole offense is driving. (at least in that game)

I would not be surprised to see them play something new this time, like a 1-3-1 in order to make it difficult to feed the post and set up our 3 pt shooters, since we torched them before. (At least thats what I would do given the last encounter)

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Purdue hasn't seen a 1-3-1 the last two years I don't think. Remember there isn't a lot of protection along the baseline when your big guy is 6'8" adn Purdue can put two underneath bigger than that and another as big as any vermont has to see over teh zone and hit them for two foot shots.

Casually observe games and see if you don't see "replacements" in areas previously occupied being open when another goes to that spot..especially in some sort of zone that has either man/zone or match-up adn follows a person and nobody covers the open area until it is too late. It won't be long...some are picking this the upset like some piced UALR last year. Purdue can score this year...no droughts for them like years ago

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

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Purdue hasn't seen a 1-3-1 the last two years I don't think. Remember there isn't a lot of protection along the baseline when your big guy is 6'8" adn Purdue can put two underneath bigger than that and another as big as any vermont has to see over teh zone and hit them for two foot shots.

Casually observe games and see if you don't see "replacements" in areas previously occupied being open when another goes to that spot..especially in some sort of zone that has either man/zone or match-up adn follows a person and nobody covers the open area until it is too late. It won't be long...some are picking this the upset like some piced UALR last year. Purdue can score this year...no droughts for them like years ago

I don't disagree with anything you've written. It is purely a guess after watching last year and in their championship game. They have to do something different than the last time or they have no chance. Hopefully they will start out man as thats their style of play, so we can get an early lead and get our tourney confidence.

PS I am seeing more 1-3-1 for the reason you noted. People are looking for something that will surprise people. In the first game tonight, for example, NC Central went 1-3-1 in the first half and it shut down the driving of UC Davis. Luckily they only fell behind by about 8 and were able to regroup at half time.

 

[lbodel]

I don't disagree with anything you've written. It is purely a guess after watching last year and in their championship game. They have to do something different than the last time or they have no chance. Hopefully they will start out man as thats their style of play, so we can get an early lead and get our tourney confidence.

PS I am seeing more 1-3-1 for the reason you noted. People are looking for something that will surprise people. In the first game tonight, for example, NC Central went 1-3-1 in the first half and it shut down the driving of UC Davis. Luckily they only fell behind by about 8 and were able to regroup at half time.

I think again it comes down to whether Purdue can play a typical game If they go cold from 3, things could get ugly. If we get in foul trouble/send them to the line, could get ugly. If we get sloppy with the ball, things could get ugly.

To be fair, NC Central regularly played 1-3-1 through the season, so it's not like it pulled it out of thin air in this game.