Guessing game for all who want to try. Absolutely nothing with value or without to the poster who posts correct leader and correct promise.
What was promised and to whom?
- Thread starter Bethboilerfan
- Start date
Who knows, but I suspect Dems will once again overplay it. Trump is a disaster waiting to happen but Dems can't get out of their own way, and Rep don't care, when it comes to this corrupt moron.
Need to let this play out for a bit. People are gunning for Trump while he feels more emboldened to do whatever he wants..........as the dems play with themselves and the pubs act like the three monkeys. We need to get the whole story.....and probably will at some point.
Does anyone really trust him to not give away the store or talk about things he shouldn't? I mean c'mon, he was so busy bragging about his wall he was ready to tell the world about all the technology in it until a general essentially told him to stfu.
Does anyone really trust him to not give away the store or talk about things he shouldn't? I mean c'mon, he was so busy bragging about his wall he was ready to tell the world about all the technology in it until a general essentially told him to stfu.
I agree - I also don't understand the total collapse of the constitutional "checks and balances" . No matter the opinion or thoughts about Trump, one must see what all of this means going forward. Will Congress just become a meaningless institution? Trump will not be President forever even if he wins in 2020 and what will the next President do?
BuilderBob6: You are right. Since I posted this thread a bit more has been revealed. Apparently it was not just one promise to one leader but involved more than that??? Also, it has now disappeared from my news feed - not sure what that means.
As of 8:30 PM, reporting has the connection to the Ukraine being the country/leader involved, with the Biden's son matter a reasonable GUESS as to the subject.
Politics as team sport, that's all it is. It took a few hundred years but most once cared about the law, now it's just "my side must win." Who knows what comes after this, but once a bridge is crossed it's hard to go back.
Washington Post Article: Whistleblower complaint about President Trump involves Ukraine, according to two people familiar with...
Yet another calm, coherent, honest argument by Trump's personal attack dog.
Seriously, wtf have we become?
Seriously, wtf have we become?
So Trump's personal attorney gets to travel to foreign countries and discuss political issues of the US with heads of state......but says Trump didn't tell him to do it? Who is Giuliani representing? How does he get to investigate the 2016 US election when he isn't a member of this admin? If he wants to investigate it it should be done by our government, not Trump's attorney. This is ludicrous.
Yeah, but, neither Trump or Giuliani are a part of the "other." Get it? Trump can lie, cheat and steal his way though the Constitution because he by god has a birth certificate that says he belongs!!!
Heard this possible overview of the Ukraine story that summarizes one potential legal nightmare for Trump:
As president, Trump has the legal authority to negotiate with foreign leaders and governments using quid pro quo's : i.e. your country does something for our country, then ours does something for yours. What the "something " IS could be problematic, but the qpq O.K
What would assuredly be an immense legal problem is a promise by Trump to help the Ukraine in exchange for something that would only help Trump's PERSONAL POLITICAL situation. I.e. the Hunter Biden deal . Constitutionally forbidden to the max.
Stay tuned.
Congress has been moving toward meaningless for quite some time. It has really amped up in the last 10 years. Got ten minutes or so, Sen Hasse nails it.
Well a few things-
1)So once again, why do you care about this now? Why does it only bother you that Guiliani has done/does this? Do not remember any outcry over Obama or Kerry meeting with foreign leaders while not in office. Complete hypocrisy-more of the it is ok if my party and people I voted to do it but nobody else can.
Personally, I do not think anybody not elected to and in office, and under the SoS or Presdent's Admin, really has any business meeting with other world leaders one on one. Especially if they are a former politician, still connected, and from a different political party that has different views on relationship with said country. Simply put, if one did not win the WH, stay out.
2) Is Guiliani actually investigating the election? Or is it something that Ukraine is doing on its own? Ukraine seems to think that they have some people caught red handed that were attempting to help/helped Clinton. Oh, the change in narrative there. And why would this bother you/all of you? I am certain I have read on the boards here that the issue was people wanted foreign influence in elections dealt with. This should be applauded that the Trump Admin is going after a country that interfered or possibly interfered. No?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...ficial-says-hes-opened-probe-into-us-election
That is how these things work. if a country rights it ship so to speak, they open the door to better relations. Been that way for a long time.
I thought what Kerry did was BS. I must have missed your thread about it. If I had seen it, I would have said as much. Why do you always assume you know what people think based on whether you saw it on this board?
Is this the same thing? Hardly. Why would the president's personal lawyer be talking to a foreign leader about an investigation into election meddling that happened 3 YEARS ago.........and an election his client WON? Seems to me when there were questions about interference in the last election there was an investigation by the government. Was Hillary's lawyer going to Russia and asking questions of government officials?
But that's not really Rudy's objective anyway. He's fishing for dirt on his client's possible opponent in the next election........AS HE CLEARLY SAID ON TV LAST NIGHT.
If Ukraine thinks they have information on improprieties committed in the last election it should be investigated by government officials, not the president's personal lawyer. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue that.
As you said, "This should be applauded that the Trump Admin is going after a country that interfered or possibly interfered." It's not the Trump admin going after a country. It's his freakin PERSONAL LAWYER. That's not his place. He's working for Trump, period.
Again, this is all a cover for Rudy to dig into Biden. I assume you have actually watched the Rudy video. He is there investigating Biden on behalf of his client, trying to get dirt to use against Biden in the election. Trump has no problem with such activity, do you?
There's a lot of conclusions being jumped to already, so let's not start the impeachment posse yet.
With that said, if the whistleblower's complaint is indeed what people are surmising, that Trump is withholding money /aid to a country until they start an investigation into the son of a political rival, are Trump supporters really OK with this?
Without pulling out a "well Obama did the same thing" or "but Hillary...", seriously, Yes or No, is this OK in your book?
Personally, I'm not OK with this (if true) and would feel the same way about anyone who did it, regardless of their political orientation.
With that said, if the whistleblower's complaint is indeed what people are surmising, that Trump is withholding money /aid to a country until they start an investigation into the son of a political rival, are Trump supporters really OK with this?
Without pulling out a "well Obama did the same thing" or "but Hillary...", seriously, Yes or No, is this OK in your book?
Personally, I'm not OK with this (if true) and would feel the same way about anyone who did it, regardless of their political orientation.
This is nothing but egg on the face of Biden. Maybe good for the Dems, an excuse to dump him for someone more insane!
I thought what Kerry did was BS. I must have missed your thread about it. If I had seen it, I would have said as much. Why do you always assume you know what people think based on whether you saw it on this board?
It gets pretty obvious Bob. When one constantly rails about everything one does from a certain party/politician, but always praise another group, it is no longer an assumption. I will say that this. was not a bad attempt at a recovery
Is this the same thing? Hardly. Why would the president's personal lawyer be talking to a foreign leader about an investigation into election meddling that happened 3 YEARS ago.........and an election his client WON? Seems to me when there were questions about interference in the last election there was an investigation by the government. Was Hillary's lawyer going to Russia and asking questions of government officials?
Silly me, I thought people were all about getting to the bottom of the foreign interference in the last Presidential election. At least that is what I was told and read ad nauseum the last three years. 3 years ago in caps? Pretty sure Mueller just testified and people were on the edge of their seat waiting for the alleged treason/conspiracy. As for Hilary, I think it is pretty obvious she hired a lot of people to do things overseas in regard to this.
If Ukraine thinks they have information on improprieties committed in the last election it should be investigated by government officials, not the president's personal lawyer. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue that.
As you said, "This should be applauded that the Trump Admin is going after a country that interfered or possibly interfered." It's not the Trump admin going after a country. It's his freakin PERSONAL LAWYER. That's not his place. He's working for Trump, period.
Mueller should have investigated it. That was his job. I agree that US should investigate it-but for whatever reason(s), they are not.
And when Trump implied as much, people jumped on him for wanting to use the DOJ as his personal attack dog. When Mueller was asked about much of this, his own answers were it was out of his scope. Said so in his own testimony. Was not concerned about Russian lawyer that met with Trump's team meeting with Fusion GPS before and after said Trump's meeting, was not concerned about the foreign officials that are known US assets contacting Trump's team etc. List goes on.
I question why Guiliani is involved. He should just be hired by State as special assignment.
Again, this is all a cover for Rudy to dig into Biden. I assume you have actually watched the Rudy video. He is there investigating Biden on behalf of his client, trying to get dirt to use against Biden in the election. Trump has no problem with such activity, do you?
I saw the video this morning. Not a good look obviously.
That said, I think this is more about Trump knows Ukraine tried to help Hilary, and nothing was done about it, which burns his arse on a personal level. So if he is going to free up that money for weaponry($250m I think), for him they need to right their ship and admit publicly what their officials did. So is it for his personal political gain? Sure is. But he can hide behind the fact that there was foreign election interference that he wants to get resolved, which oh so many people supposedly cared about.
Do I have an issue with Trump trying to get dirt on Biden? I think Biden's dealing with China and Ukraine come out in time so not sure why he thinks he needs too.. And if people have the issue with Trump allegedly involved with Russia, they would never vote for Biden due to China lone, but we see how that works lol.
Personally, not a fan of these actions.. Look at last election. Basicaly, Hilary unscathed for what she did hiring a politcal ally in Fusion GPS connections, who hired a foreign national that disliked Trump, to dig up or in reality make up dirt on Trump, which was used to strengthen FISA warrant applications, which allowed eavesdropping on political adversary. It is the political landscape in 2019. Definitely not a good atmosphere. So do I like it? No. But I do not think or expect politicians to let themselves get railroaded either.
If there's egg on Biden's face, then Trump might as well have his picture taken with the entire chicken farm.
The Trump/Rudy connection to the Ukraine concerns the Biden candidacy for 2020, not the ashes from 2016.
Forget Hillary. Almost everyone else has.
Ok, so anything done before 2020 has no bearing on anything? I just love hypocrites and you are the number one hypocrite.
What more proof does anyone need? There is a video of Biden bragging that he got the prosecutor fired, because he threatened the Ukraine with withholding millions of dollars in aid, if they didn't fire him. The prosecutor in question was investigating his son for corruption. Of course, since Biden is a Dem, you'll never acknowledge that he's corrupt.
Again, this is not about politics. This is about right and wrong. If a different reputable whistleblower was able to come up with concrete proof that showed that Hillary was conspiring with the Ukraine to win the election, then I would be at the forefront demanding she be prosecuted. Quite honestly, if Hillary had been elected, I suspect that the Republicans would be pushing to investigate just as much the dems are now. Trump won, so he gets the lions share of the scrutiny. It would have been the same if Hillary won.
So I ask again, are you OK with this? Purdue97 answered adequately about how he feels and I understand his position, even if I don't agree with it. If these allegations are true, it is pretty much the textbook definition of extortion.
Somehow....someway.....MISSED THAT VIDEO..
Know you can hardly wait to post it....
Dude, how 'bout just ONE straightforward comment/question ??
(you completely misinterpreted the point)
Not if true and being equal on both sides. Look I think Trump can be a royal ass, but he is more upfront about it. If anyone can actually defend the Clintons and all of the suicides surrounding them and the other questions and it all be done on an level playing field then so be it but I don't see that happening. I am fine with a rational disagreement and discussion . If Obama had been examined to the extent of Trump there would be more. I know Obama/Dems and his policies created a lot of mess in my life vs Trump who hasn't . That is what I vote on
Since the point man for the Dems is Adam Schiff on this issue, you can bet the ranch that there will be a lot of posturing and speculating by the Dems and it will eventually be determined that it was just another attempt to throw mud at Trump, with NO substance behind the drama. I remember Schiff telling us for months that he had evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. Then he just stopped saying it and the media never followed up on what evidence he had, since they knew it was all BS from the beginning.
It's hilarious watching the Dems melt down on a daily basis, due to their TDS. They're trying so desperately to derail Trump, that it will get him reelected and cost them the House, since they've forgotten why they were elected...LOL
It's hilarious watching the Dems melt down on a daily basis, due to their TDS. They're trying so desperately to derail Trump, that it will get him reelected and cost them the House, since they've forgotten why they were elected...LOL
How is that misinterpreted? You say basically Trump doesn't live in your head and then say he is in your thoughts every second of your waking hours. I don't know how else to interpret that? Because you think whatever you say is right and we should all just accept that regardless ?
You don't know who the whistle blower is, so how do you know he's reputable and not just another political hack trying to take a shot at Trump? We also don't know exactly what the whistle blower was blowing the whistle about. Everyone is speculating right now. Why not wait until we get some facts, before everyone gets in a lather?
I assume that this article concerns the video mentioned, and the full transcript of the Foreign Affairs Issue Lunch converation with Former Vice President Joe Biden held by the Council on Foreign Relations is located here.
Here is the full video with what would be at issue beginning at about the 50:35 mark
EDIT: I forgot to include this link to Poltifact Fact-checking about the relationship of Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and Ukraine prosecutor
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No, the video does exist. You can debate whether it is called "bragging" or not, but the video of him talking about it and saying that he was going to withhold the loan guarantees to the Ukraine until the prosecutor was fired is out there and can be seen in the link below. I agree that it is a closet that Joe should not be digging through and if this is going to blow up in his face, he is going to have to talk about it a lot in the next couple of weeks, and it has the potential to sink him.
Now, it should be noted that Joe Biden was not the only one calling for this guys firing. The guy was supposed to be looking into corruption on all fronts in the government and in business, but he was specifically avoiding bringing up any prosecutions against people in the government. Second, he was brought in to restructure the legal system but essentially tried to keep the old system in place.
See the link below.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/joe-biden-ukraine/
I personally think that in this case, Joe is trying to have the "best of both worlds." Yes, there was a lot of reasons to get this prosecutor fired, but I don't doubt that the Hunter investigation wasn't also a deciding factor for his actions.
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I know EXACTLY what I said, and meant to say.
Whether or not YOU care to believe it is absolutely the very , VERY last thing on planet earth that I care about, or can possibly EVER care about.
We're about 2 inches from another free-for-all.
Poll this board's contributors & see if they're looking forward to that.
Lose my number, as they say.
I agree about the latter. I have been careful to try to include "if these allegations are true", etc. in most of my posts.
With that said, the inspector general who found the allegation credible is a Trump appointee. So regardless if the whistleblower has an agenda or not, his boss thought it was necessary to report this to congress. They are trying to go by the book on this one, which is why the whistleblower has not been identified. If there is a tape or transcript of the (alleged) phone conversation, that would be the closest thing to a smoking gun that has occurred.
Toe to toe? Ha that's a laugh and for what? Because you contradicted yourself and can't admit it? Dude , you don't really want to think about toe to toe or even know what it means. You seem really triggered today?
I rail against Trump and HIS republican party, not the true party of Lincoln. Your assumption was wrong.......as it it with most Trumpers because they make the shortsighted mistake that anti Trump means liberal. It's a lazy take.
You think there is more to find on interference in the last election? Then call Trump and tell him to launch an official investigation. It was THREE YEARS ago. That's in caps because in that time there has been no investigation into Ukraine by this admin. Why is that? Seems like a long time for something that seems so obvious. As is with most things Trump he loves to throw out bait for people like you but never follows up with actual facts. In short, launch an investigation if you think something is there or STFU. And no, it's not obvious HC hired a lot of people overseas to "do things". Her lawyer hired Fusion who hired Steele. That's what we know.
BTW, do you actually know what this whole HC/Ukraine connection is about? Whether Ukraine officials leaked Manafort's financial records. Wow. Mind blowing.
Mueller's job was to investigate Russian interference. That task was given to him by members of the Trump admin. It wasn't to investigate Ukraine. You want to widen the scope? I can't recall, were you complaining about Mueller going beyond his scope when he was looking at Trump?
As was pointed out in a story today, Ukrainian officials said they would be happy to look into it but have not received an official request. You don't know why but the reason is obvious. There's nothing there, only more false accusations by Trump.
So it's your opinion that Trump is holding up military aid to Ukraine because he knows (how?) Ukraine tried to help HC by giving her Manafort's financials........but in 3 years he hasn't ASKED them to investigate it? And it's ok to hide behind it because he was investigated......with a million times more evidence than this Ukraine BS? And yes, it was much more evidence.......and despite your regurgitation of Trump's talking points, none if that has been proven. We currently are waiting on the results of an investigation into the investigation of the interference and the deep state of the FBI. When you base your argument on Ukraine on facts not in evidence of the Russian investigation it kinda hurts the credibility.
I especially likw how you minimize Trump's actions with your "I'm not a fan of" but Hillary or "It's not a good look" but Biden.
Trump is blurring the lines between his personal need for revenge and US foreign policy by using his personal attorney to dig for dirt on a political opponent and using a BS election argument as cover......when he hasn't even had an official investigation......even using the state department to help Rudy with his travel. That's not being "railroaded". That's exceeding his constitutional power for his own purposes. Whatever Hillary did or didn't do doesn't excuse it. Your argument seems to be that because you think Hillary did something wrong it magically becomes acceptable if Trump does it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that you said you weren't a fan of it.
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