We recruited the best shooters in the Midwest?

[SnowLeopard]

Didn't Painter claim he recruited the best shooters in the Midwest for three years in a row?

Its too early to make the call on Cline yet, but Mathias and Stephens are not shooting the percentages that would put them anywhere near the top of their cohort. Then there was little AJ who came in with a reputation as a shooter and fizzled

Is it just a coincidence or are we missing a trick somewhere?

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

good shooters take good shots. Not sure that has been the case all year with our guys. I think they are good shooters, they just need to make proper decisions and take their shots that are in the flow of the game.

 

[BBG]

good shooters take good shots. Not sure that has been the case all year with our guys. I think they are good shooters, they just need to make proper decisions and take their shots that are in the flow of the game.

This.

 

[Bigohh]

Didn't Painter claim he recruited the best shooters in the Midwest for three years in a row?

Its too early to make the call on Cline yet, but Mathias and Stephens are not shooting the percentages that would put them anywhere near the top of their cohort. Then there was little AJ who came in with a reputation as a shooter and fizzled

Is it just a coincidence or are we missing a trick somewhere?

Interesting question and points out the opposite situation at scum where they seem to live and die by the 3. A good example is this Div III recruit, Duncan Robinson, shooting the highest 3 pt percentage in the country. Also of note is GRobIII going there and developing a decent 3 pt shot that he definitely did not have in HS. On the other hand, we take the kid who wins the HS 3 pt shooting contest, Cline, and seem to make him an average 3 pt shooter. Is it coaching, getting open 3's, or a Purdue curse??

 

[IamBob]

Probably too late to learn the system, but I say employ the triangle offense and everyone starts taking better shots.

 

[FirstDownB]

I have to believe it is at least partly mental. I have made the suggestion before that it would be a good investment to employ a team therapist. Particularly with an "old school" coach.. Sports psychology, training the mind, is an untapped tool, a potential for competitive edge, at the collegiate level. Purdue is all about innovation, right?

 

[CRBoiler]

I have to believe it is at least partly mental. I have made the suggestion before that it would be a good investment to employ a team therapist. Particularly with an "old school" coach.. Sports psychology, training the mind, is an untapped tool, a potential for competitive edge, at the collegiate level. Purdue is all about innovation, right?

Thanks for saying this. I've thought it before as well. The mental side of training & performing at sports has advanced a lot in the past few decades, but the advances are far from universally applied. Confidence alone, including confidence when faced with adversity, makes such a difference. I don't know that I would call the role a "therapist" (because of the baggage of that label) as much as a counselor/advisor, but I agree there are likely opportunities to better address the mental side of preparing and performing.

 

[BBG]

Thanks for saying this. I've thought it before as well. The mental side of training & performing at sports has advanced a lot in the past few decades, but the advances are far from universally applied. Confidence alone, including confidence when faced with adversity, makes such a difference. I don't know that I would call the role a "therapist" (because of the baggage of that label) as much as a counselor/advisor, but I agree there are likely opportunities to better address the mental side of preparing and performing.

Does a Swedish masseuse count?

 

[FirstDownB]

Thanks for saying this. I've thought it before as well. The mental side of training & performing at sports has advanced a lot in the past few decades, but the advances are far from universally applied. Confidence alone, including confidence when faced with adversity, makes such a difference. I don't know that I would call the role a "therapist" (because of the baggage of that label) as much as a counselor/advisor, but I agree there are likely opportunities to better address the mental side of preparing and performing.

One day that stigma will be removed and we will wonder why we ever left people, especially those in positions requiring "mental toughness", on an island to form bad mental health habits without any professional guidance. Just look at the attention given to physical training and diet today compared to say 50 years ago.

 

[PU pit bull]

...........while watching missed three after missed three

 

[FirstDownB]

...........while watching missed three after missed three

Ok I'll admit that's funny.

 

[TC4THREE]

I've always wondered how much our shooters are used to finding shots in our motion offense compared to what they were getting in high school and AAU.

 

[boilerpt]

I still think part of the issue with our shooters is that they aren't playing loose enough. I'm glad that our coach preaches defense, but he doesn't have the same appreciation for offense. Also, with our rotation as deep as it is, and the focus being to get the ball to the bigs, these guys aren't getting the volume of shots that they've gotten leading up to college.

 

[SnowLeopard]

If Painter's 'best shooters' are performing at a significantly lower standard than their cohorts, then either one of the two is true

1. Painter's talent evaluations wrong

2. Painter is not bringing out their full potential

Of the two above, I suspect that it is #2.

If Painter is not bringing out their full potential, he needs to think about how he can change that.

We need to grow as a team. This includes the coach. At 45 years old, Painter should not be too set in his ways to embrace ways to improve himself. As humans, we should always look for ways to improve. This is one of the distinguishing characteristics of the creme de la creme of Americans, that drives progress for the country and humanity in general.

We are now entering the crucial second half of the season. You can fcuk up the first half....doesnt matter, but the second half is where winners prove they are winners.

The team is young. Out of the rotation of 10, only 3 are not first or second year players (Stephens, Davis, AJ). This gives me optimism that they can still mature, gel together, and put together a run for the history books.

But in the reach for excellence, lets leave no shortcoming unexamined and no stone unturned.

This goes for the team, the coach, and the supporting cast (university, fan base, etc)

 

[BBG]

If Painter's 'best shooters' are performing at a significantly lower standard than their cohorts, then either one of the two is true

1. Painter's talent evaluations wrong

2. Painter is not bringing out their full potential

Of the two above, I suspect that it is #2.

If Painter is not bringing out their full potential, he needs to think about how he can change that.

We need to grow as a team. This includes the coach. At 45 years old, Painter should not be too set in his ways to embrace ways to improve himself. As humans, we should always look for ways to improve. This is one of the distinguishing characteristics of the creme de la creme of Americans, that drives progress for the country and humanity in general.

We are now entering the crucial second half of the season. You can fcuk up the first half....doesnt matter, but the second half is where winners prove they are winners.

The team is young. Out of the rotation of 10, only 3 are not first or second year players (Stephens, Davis, AJ). This gives me optimism that they can still mature, gel together, and put together a run for the history books.

But in the reach for excellence, lets leave no shortcoming unexamined and no stone unturned.

This goes for the team, the coach, and the supporting cast (university, fan base, etc)

There are stats if the shooters in another thread. Basically they are shooting decently and improving.

That said, the only thing people will remember are the misses they see on tv.

 

[tjreese]

If Painter's 'best shooters' are performing at a significantly lower standard than their cohorts, then either one of the two is true

1. Painter's talent evaluations wrong

2. Painter is not bringing out their full potential

Of the two above, I suspect that it is #2.

If Painter is not bringing out their full potential, he needs to think about how he can change that.

We need to grow as a team. This includes the coach. At 45 years old, Painter should not be too set in his ways to embrace ways to improve himself. As humans, we should always look for ways to improve. This is one of the distinguishing characteristics of the creme de la creme of Americans, that drives progress for the country and humanity in general.

We are now entering the crucial second half of the season. You can fcuk up the first half....doesnt matter, but the second half is where winners prove they are winners.

The team is young. Out of the rotation of 10, only 3 are not first or second year players (Stephens, Davis, AJ). This gives me optimism that they can still mature, gel together, and put together a run for the history books.

But in the reach for excellence, lets leave no shortcoming unexamined and no stone unturned.

This goes for the team, the coach, and the supporting cast (university, fan base, etc)

There are many reasons why the physical aspect is much more difficult in college than in high school for these shooters. The defense has better athletes and better scouting...and significantly more intensity in guarding them.

However, there is a mental component to shooting as well. In high school, these guys knew to let it fly. They were expected to do that in high school as they were a huge component of the offense in high school. They took the court ready to shoot and were always thinking about shooting as it was on them...they were the stars. Their bad shots were better than the other player's good shots many times. They focused, and in many cases the teams executed to create good opportunities for them as they were the hub about their team. They didn't have a shot clock and any lack of athleticism wasn't as exposed due to the other team having limited athletes to battle their team's focus (shooters) on them scoring. They cannot play with a shoot first mentality that would keep them looser in college in general and on this Purdue team specifically. If they played in an IU type offense they would shoot better..an offense where I'm not sure there is a bad shot, an offense where each possession is not as critical and all played with some degree of less effort on D and the physical drain that has. Good coaches wouldn't allow that without a huge advantage in talent. Hopefully, this kids will improve and as juniors and seniors be a constant threat to not only shoot well, but to score in other ways too. These less athletic shooters will be more physically gifted as upperclassmen I suspect, and then your would like a constant turning over of mature shooters on your team, but the hole Purdue is in doesn't allow for them to be as much of a role player their first two years. Purdue could have been much better this year if a more mature Ronnie Johnson bought in and accomplished what his physical abilities offered. Had Jay Simpson not had the physical issues and could play...assuming of course that the Purdue team remained somewhat the same. Hope to see more balanced classes in a variety of ways and for players to stay a few years...unless of course the player is just exceptional and then Purdue just enjoys his limited time at Purdue. Anyway, I think the physical adn mental aspects are more difficult for these good high school shooters to be quickly as effective in teh Big Ten...

 

[lbodel]

If Painter's 'best shooters' are performing at a significantly lower standard than their cohorts, then either one of the two is true

1. Painter's talent evaluations wrong

2. Painter is not bringing out their full potential

Of the two above, I suspect that it is #2.

If Painter is not bringing out their full potential, he needs to think about how he can change that.

We need to grow as a team. This includes the coach. At 45 years old, Painter should not be too set in his ways to embrace ways to improve himself. As humans, we should always look for ways to improve. This is one of the distinguishing characteristics of the creme de la creme of Americans, that drives progress for the country and humanity in general.

We are now entering the crucial second half of the season. You can fcuk up the first half....doesnt matter, but the second half is where winners prove they are winners.

The team is young. Out of the rotation of 10, only 3 are not first or second year players (Stephens, Davis, AJ). This gives me optimism that they can still mature, gel together, and put together a run for the history books.

But in the reach for excellence, lets leave no shortcoming unexamined and no stone unturned.

This goes for the team, the coach, and the supporting cast (university, fan base, etc)

I think you're oversimplifying things. High school basketball is not college basketball. If you think most kids are coming to a power 5 school and shooting what they were in high school, you're nuts. You're also taking a look at a very small sample.

Take Ryne Smith for example. His freshman and sophomore years, he shot less than 30% from 3. People thought the kid was a joke. His junior and senior years, he was shooting 44%.

People were wetting their pants for Ryan Cline to play this year and not redshirt. He obviously has provided an impact in a couple games this season, but overall, he probably would have really benefited from a redshirt year. Not saying the decision was wrong, but it takes time to really find your place and get comfortable.

So to say it's Painter's fault or the offense's fault - I don't really buy that. We've had guys that have had plenty of improve over their careers and have success offensively - Ryne Smith is a tremendous example of that. That being said, and I said this going into the season, is that I think our depth is a big challenge - not just for Painter, but also the players. It obviously has tremendous advantages, but it's also tough when you have good players get limited minutes and struggle to get into the groove of things. We've seen some changes over the last few weeks trying to figure out a rotation, but it's certainly not something I envy having to figure out.

 

[Do Dah Day]

My son held the scoring record for his 4A school in Indiana for 15 years. When he called home for the first time after practice started at his D1 school, he had three comments: 1. These guys have arms 6" longer than they should, 2. they can jump 6" higher than they should, and 3. they cover ground like a leopard. He said when he thought he was wide open for a 3, some guy standing in the lane would move toward him, jump, and block his shot.

It's why only about 15 players in Indiana each year go to high-level programs. Even in AAU, you don't see guys that are 4 years older and more experienced than you are playing at a speed that is faster than you've experienced.

 

[SnowLeopard]

I think you're oversimplifying things. High school basketball is not college basketball. If you think most kids are coming to a power 5 school and shooting what they were in high school, you're nuts. You're also taking a look at a very small sample..

Thats not what I wrote. Thats certainly not the point

The claim was that we were recruiting the top shooter in the Midwest for 3 years in a row.

Take Mathias. Is he the top shooter amongst the college sophomores from the Midwest now playing in a Power 5 school?

Is Stephens top in the junior class?

Cline?

I am only comparing them to other shooters graduating from high school in the same year

Look before you jump, read before you preach

 

[SnowLeopard]

Thoughtful answer, tj. As always

Thanks!

There are many reasons why the physical aspect is much more difficult in college than in high school for these shooters. The defense has better athletes and better scouting...and significantly more intensity in guarding them.

However, there is a mental component to shooting as well. In high school, these guys knew to let it fly. They were expected to do that in high school as they were a huge component of the offense in high school. They took the court ready to shoot and were always thinking about shooting as it was on them...they were the stars. Their bad shots were better than the other player's good shots many times. They focused, and in many cases the teams executed to create good opportunities for them as they were the hub about their team. They didn't have a shot clock and any lack of athleticism wasn't as exposed due to the other team having limited athletes to battle their team's focus (shooters) on them scoring. They cannot play with a shoot first mentality that would keep them looser in college in general and on this Purdue team specifically. If they played in an IU type offense they would shoot better..an offense where I'm not sure there is a bad shot, an offense where each possession is not as critical and all played with some degree of less effort on D and the physical drain that has. Good coaches wouldn't allow that without a huge advantage in talent. Hopefully, this kids will improve and as juniors and seniors be a constant threat to not only shoot well, but to score in other ways too. These less athletic shooters will be more physically gifted as upperclassmen I suspect, and then your would like a constant turning over of mature shooters on your team, but the hole Purdue is in doesn't allow for them to be as much of a role player their first two years. Purdue could have been much better this year if a more mature Ronnie Johnson bought in and accomplished what his physical abilities offered. Had Jay Simpson not had the physical issues and could play...assuming of course that the Purdue team remained somewhat the same. Hope to see more balanced classes in a variety of ways and for players to stay a few years...unless of course the player is just exceptional and then Purdue just enjoys his limited time at Purdue. Anyway, I think the physical adn mental aspects are more difficult for these good high school shooters to be quickly as effective in teh Big Ten...

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'll throw out something I have not seen anyone discuss before. There are "rumors" in every town that there are better ball players on the playgrounds than there are in the gyms. I've seen games at the Y played harder and better than at the HS. There are some players who spend a lot of time on the playgrounds, and others who don't. When Kobe returned home a few weeks ago, he went right to the playground that he grew up playing on. Things happen on the playgrounds that don't happen anywhere else. Playing under those "rules" and conditions and against guys 5 years older, and meaner, and often better, is a different way to grow up.

Jerry Tarkanian recruited the playgrounds of LA. He won the '90 national championship with guys who played like most had not seen before. Reading his book opened my eyes to a lot of things.

There are players out "there" who have grown up in many different ways. I didn't research it, but I suspect Shaka Smarts VCU players had some of that background.

 

[Bigohh]

I'll throw out something I have not seen anyone discuss before. There are "rumors" in every town that there are better ball players on the playgrounds than there are in the gyms. I've seen games at the Y played harder and better than at the HS. There are some players who spend a lot of time on the playgrounds, and others who don't. When Kobe returned home a few weeks ago, he went right to the playground that he grew up playing on. Things happen on the playgrounds that don't happen anywhere else. Playing under those "rules" and conditions and against guys 5 years older, and meaner, and often better, is a different way to grow up.

Jerry Tarkanian recruited the playgrounds of LA. He won the '90 national championship with guys who played like most had not seen before. Reading his book opened my eyes to a lot of things.

There are players out "there" who have grown up in many different ways. I didn't research it, but I suspect Shaka Smarts VCU players had some of that background.

Can't resist chiming in on this subject as it mystifies me how UM seems to take average/good 3 pt shooters and make them great whereas we seem to do the opposite. Examples are Spike Albrecht, kid from Chesterton, even GRobIII from Lake Central was not a 3 pt shooter in HS but became a decent shooter at UM. Seems that Belien puts a big emphasis on incorporating the 3 pt shot into his offense. My theory is that because it is part of Belien's strategy, the players are comfortable letting the 3's go whereas at Purdue, the emphasis is on feeding the post so the pressure is on if a player decides to shot first in that if he misses he will be sitting. One other point that I think MP is trying to make is that jacking an off balance 3 whirling around off of a screen is a much lower percentage shot than a set up 3 with body square and feet set fed from inside out.

 

[tjreese]

Can't resist chiming in on this subject as it mystifies me how UM seems to take average/good 3 pt shooters and make them great whereas we seem to do the opposite. Examples are Spike Albrecht, kid from Chesterton, even GRobIII from Lake Central was not a 3 pt shooter in HS but became a decent shooter at UM. Seems that Belien puts a big emphasis on incorporating the 3 pt shot into his offense. My theory is that because it is part of Belien's strategy, the players are comfortable letting the 3's go whereas at Purdue, the emphasis is on feeding the post so the pressure is on if a player decides to shot first in that if he misses he will be sitting. One other point that I think MP is trying to make is that jacking an off balance 3 whirling around off of a screen is a much lower percentage shot than a set up 3 with body square and feet set fed from inside out.

I don't think there is any question that they play different due to different team strengths AND that MU is more of a spread offense AND has been under Belien. As I previously stated there is a mental aspect to shooting that you are suggesting.

Matt allows much more freedom on offense than Gene ever did...and part of that is/was the clock. I have always thought Purdue didn't have enough shooters...and by the way...a lot of becoming a great shooter is practicing the right things at the right speed and is on the player...just like some students with high IQ's under perform. That said, what is the difference of player A shooting 50% behind the arc and Shooter B shooting 38% behind the arc and shooting say 6 shots each per game in context with passing, screening, ball handling, rebounding, and the whole defensive side of the game? Purdue needs more possessions than the opponent gets and needs more points per possession for those extra possessions. The totality suggest that shooting 3's and making them as important as they are (and sometimes just spreading the D is a huge advantage) doesn't tell the important story.

I know you were not suggesting that...but I got off on what I thought was an important point...and yes I too think MU's allows more freedom to shoot the three ball...although the Muhammed kid killed Purdue going to the bucket ..as Carlis would as well

 

[Boilerrush]

Didn't Painter claim he recruited the best shooters in the Midwest for three years in a row?

Its too early to make the call on Cline yet, but Mathias and Stephens are not shooting the percentages that would put them anywhere near the top of their cohort. Then there was little AJ who came in with a reputation as a shooter and fizzled

Is it just a coincidence or are we missing a trick somewhere?

Mathias is top 5 in the big ten right now. There was just an article on that just for the record..

 

[lbodel]

Thats not what I wrote. Thats certainly not the point

The claim was that we were recruiting the top shooter in the Midwest for 3 years in a row.

Take Mathias. Is he the top shooter amongst the college sophomores from the Midwest now playing in a Power 5 school?

Is Stephens top in the junior class?

Cline?

I am only comparing them to other shooters graduating from high school in the same year

Look before you jump, read before you preach

But again, you're like "boxing in" with your question. Was Stephens recruited because he was the best shooter in the midwest? No. He was a good overall recruit.

Guys like Ryan Cline, Ryne Smith and Dakota Mathias fit into the "top shooters" type of comment. Are they LITERALLY the best shooters in the midwest in their respective years? Not necessarily. And again, a guy like Ryne Smith was a great shooter in high school, but it took him 2 full years to remotely adjust to college basketball.

The overall idea is that you aren't going to fill your entire roster with top 150 players. So one of Painter's "strategies" is to recruit a really good shooter who may not be some prime recruit. So the justification for recruiting a Ryan Cline is he is one of the best shooters in the midwest, so we'll take our chances on being able to develop him defensively, physically, etc. to turn out to be a legit contributor at a high level school.

So to ask the question "aren't we recruiting the best shooter every year and why aren't they producing as such?" is such a loaded, oversimplified question. Just being a good shooter doesn't make you a good power conference player, let alone even average.

 

[mathboy]

It's obviously Painter's fault. If only we could bring in the coach who coached Teague, Etwann, and Hummel. I think it was the same guy who coached Ryne Smith who was such a dead-eye shooter. Now that was a guy who could coach shooters!

 

[PU pit bull]

These weren't/aren't just some damn good shooters. These players bring/brought that "gym rat", lead by example type attitude to the program.........along with a sh*t load of basketball IQ IMO

 

[tjreese]

It's obviously Painter's fault. If only we could bring in the coach who coached Teague, Etwann, and Hummel. I think it was the same guy who coached Ryne Smith who was such a dead-eye shooter. Now that was a guy who could coach shooters!

Soooo, you're saying there is a chance it is on the players?

I do think it is not too late in high school to help players shoot better, but not as much time in college. That said, college and pro teams do have shooting coaches work with players some. We cannot forget that in all aspects the players factor in...

 

[Tony79]

When your point guards are some of the worst penetrators in all of college bball we seldom get wide open looks. If we had even average guards we'd be a million times better. So frustrating.

 

[lbodel]

When your point guards are some of the worst penetrators in all of college bball we seldom get wide open looks. If we had even average guards we'd be a million times better. So frustrating.

I would say our spacing (lack of) is a big problem with regards to this as well. With having 2 big guys that defenses really focus on (often double teaming), if we do well with spacing, it should not only be opening up the lane for our larger guards (we have good size at that position) to drive to the basket - AND - should be leaving guys open on the perimeter.

If we get our spacing figured out (remember how we just made layups against IU last year?), this could really make the PG issue less of detractor.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Need to improve shot selection. Ryne Smith was the only guy that was dead eye from any angle or shot. These three shooters are rarely spotting up

 

[scipiospinks]

After many guys not performing where we thought they would, I have to think its Painter. Either the offense run or what he preaches in practice that effects them mentally. Even though some will claim I am, I am not an ND basketball fan. Brey has many shortcomings and I'm not fan of his, but he generally has several guys who can hit threes (Quinn, falls, mcalarney, connaughton, etc). I think he allows his guys to play more loose and they have the freedom to fire away. I only use that as an example of the opposite side. I don't think many of those guys came out of high school as better shooters than the Purdue shooters.

 

[SnowLeopard]

But again, you're like "boxing in" with your question. Was Stephens recruited because he was the best shooter in the midwest? No. He was a good overall recruit.

Guys like Ryan Cline, Ryne Smith and Dakota Mathias fit into the "top shooters" type of comment. Are they LITERALLY the best shooters in the midwest in their respective years? Not necessarily. And again, a guy like Ryne Smith was a great shooter in high school, but it took him 2 full years to remotely adjust to college basketball.
.

At the time of their recruitment, Painter would disagree with you.


"The last three years we've felt we signed the best shooter in the Midwest in Kendall Stephens, Dakota Mathias and now Ryan Cline," said Purdue men's basketball coach Matt Painter.

 

[Heller]

Does a Swedish masseuse count?

Ask Louisville.

 

[lbodel]

At the time of their recruitment, Painter would disagree with you.

View embedded media

"The last three years we've felt we signed the best shooter in the Midwest in Kendall Stephens, Dakota Mathias and now Ryan Cline," said Purdue men's basketball coach Matt Painter.

Omg yes he said it. Do head coaches routinely say 100% truth? No. Would every coach, recruiting expert, etc. agree that Dakota Mathias was the best shooter in the entire midwest that recruiting class? Um, no.

James Blackmon was in the same class from the state of Indiana. What's the first sentence read in his recruiting bio? "Arguably the top shooter in the entire class of 2014." The ENTIRE class! Not just the midwest.

It's an overall philosophy of recruiting some of the top shooters, even if they aren't highly sought after - don't be so literal.

 

[SnowLeopard]

Omg yes he said it. Do head coaches routinely say 100% truth? No. Would every coach, recruiting expert, etc. agree that Dakota Mathias was the best shooter in the entire midwest that recruiting class? Um, no.

James Blackmon was in the same class from the state of Indiana. What's the first sentence read in his recruiting bio? "Arguably the top shooter in the entire class of 2014." The ENTIRE class! Not just the midwest.

It's an overall philosophy of recruiting some of the top shooters, even if they aren't highly sought after - don't be so literal.

Wow, I always thought you seemed a reasonable poster

Since when did you get into the business of building straw men?

Did I ever say every coach and recruiting expert agreed that Mathias was the best shooter in the midwest?

Um no. But good job building that straw man, lbodel

Matt Painter however, did make that claim

Why are posters in this forum so binary? Why is everything so black and white - not everything is "you are either with us, or against us"

Too many posters on this forum falls into either the "fire Painter, he can't do anything right" or the "Don't you dare criticize Painter, when you aren't even good enough to be a Power 5 coach making millions a year" camp

Am I allowed to like Painter, yet want him to improve?

 

[lbodel]

Wow, I always thought you seemed a reasonable poster

Since when did you get into the business of building straw men?

Did I ever say every coach and recruiting expert agreed that Mathias was the best shooter in the midwest?

Um no. But good job building that straw man, lbodel

Matt Painter however, did make that claim

Why are posters in this forum so binary? Why is everything so black and white - not everything is "you are either with us, or against us"

Too many posters on this forum falls into either the "fire Painter, he can't do anything right" or the "Don't you dare criticize Painter, when you aren't even good enough to be a Power 5 coach making millions a year" camp

Am I allowed to like Painter, yet want him to improve?

You're taking a newspaper quote as black and white......

 

[BBG]

You're taking a newspaper quote as black and white......

This is what things on this forum have come to. Over analyzing every little thing said... I mean next, people start analyzing his diet? I can see it now: "we would be a Final Four team right now if Painter ate more fiber!"

It's okay to be critical and want him to improve.. but sheesh..

 

[SnowLeopard]

Fact 1: Painter's talent evaluation put Stephens, Mathias and Cline as the top shooter in the Midwest in their respective classes

Fact 2: They have not performed to Painter's evaluation

Fact 3: There is a gap between the talent assessed, and the on-court performance, that can and should be addressed

Fact 4: The above statements need not be mutually exclusive with a high estimation of Painter's coaching abilities

 

[Do Dah Day]

Fact 2 - is at least debatable in the case of Mathias
Fact 2 - could change a lot in the future for Cline
Fact 3 - We don't KNOW that it is not being addressed. It may be being addressed and that addressing is not translating to on-court performance ... perhaps not yet??
Fact 4 - good point.