UMinny preview of Purdue

[jmohlman]

I agree that he's a GREAT utility player. Glad we have him...just wish we had an additional running back who could run through an inside hole and be a TD threat. We've (also) been HORRIBLE inside the redzone for 2 straight years when the DBs aren't forced to move coverage deep to keep up with our receivers. When defenses "played for the run" we're predictable (and not very successful).

Let’s face it, our problems the last two years it had nothing to do with running the football or our office. Our problems pretty much begin and end with defense and the fact that we had no defense pretty much never…. in any game had defense.
I’m fairly confident that if we had any semblance of a defense the past two seasons ZH would’ve been much more appreciated

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I didn't mean to make this the Horvath thread with my original comment, I'm just a fan of his & thought the Minny blog preview sold him short a bit.

I'd also add that everyone is making really great points that he's not a home run threat, no denying that. But giving up 5 yds/carry and 10 yds/catch to him is giving Purdue 1st downs. And more 1st downs mean more chances to toss a deep ball to Spiderman to come down with for big gainers.

Mostly I think if you go heavy with horvath it can’t be with Plummer. O’Connell to me can

Let’s face it, our problems the last two years it had nothing to do with running the football or our office. Our problems pretty much begin and end with defense and the fact that we had no defense pretty much never…. in any game had defense.
I’m fairly confident that if we had any semblance of a defense the past two seasons ZH would’ve been much more appreciated

cant play ZH with plummwr .. only works with O’Connell or Sindelar

 

[Evergr8ful]

Let’s face it, our problems the last two years it had nothing to do with running the football or our office. Our problems pretty much begin and end with defense and the fact that we had no defense pretty much never…. in any game had defense.
I’m fairly confident that if we had any semblance of a defense the past two seasons ZH would’ve been much more appreciated

i agree that if we'd won more games the past two years, there's be a lot more comfort starting a former walk-on utility RB. However, we averaged 27.2 ppg last year (7th in B1G), and 25.4 in 2019 (8th in B1G); hardly something to get overly excited about, so it's not just the defense that was the problem the past 2 years.

 

[Zaphod_B]

i agree that if we'd won more games the past two years, there's be a lot more comfort starting a former walk-on utility RB. However, we averaged 27.2 ppg last year (7th in B1G), and 25.4 in 2019 (8th in B1G); hardly something to get overly excited about, so it's not just the defense that was the problem the past 2 years.

One might argue that if the defense was better, the offense would have put up more points, since they would have had the ball more often...

 

[Level 42]

One might argue that if the defense was better, the offense would have put up more points, since they would have had the ball more often...

Very key point. The defense was so terrible that our best chance of winning was to try and outscore people. Sure we got close in some games, but close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

Positive side is our defense really only has one direction it can go this year so if the offense manages to at least do the same thing it did last season, we should be in decent shape.

 

[Bippus33]

Are people really saying horvath is a problem? I don’t have a problem with horvath playing and getting a lot of reps. But we should have someone else like he and doerue.. you know, someone wild and unrealistic like another Markell Jones or DJ Knox type. I don’t even want brohm gone but 5 years and you can’t have Horvath, Doerue AND Markell Jones?

others may be asking for Lawrence Mauroney… I’m not lol

Agreed, Systemically CJB/Purdue has failed to secure RB`s that compliment each other and can probe the opponents defense in multiple ways. I have only heard wonderful things about Coach Barclay but I have not seen the RB Room grow and gain momentum at the position that we are seeing in other positions...
My previous comment was not meant be negative to any of your comments.

 

[purduepat1969]

One might argue that if the defense was better, the offense would have put up more points, since they would have had the ball more often...

The offense had the ball plenty. They just didn't convert red zone appearances. That was the problem. And part of the reason for that is that they can't run the football...

"Purdue only scored on 21 of 28 times inside the red zone – 75%. Only 17 teams were worse, and the 54% touchdown conversion rate was among the most abysmal in college football."

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Agreed, Systemically CJB/Purdue has failed to secure RB`s that compliment each other and can probe the opponents defense in multiple ways. I have only heard wonderful things about Coach Barclay but I have not seen the RB Room grow and gain momentum at the position that we are seeing in other positions...
My previous comment was not meant be negative to any of your comments.

No no.. I really don’t take things personally like some here. To me this is all a convergence of ideas, nothing more..

I agree. While I don’t want brohm fired, I also don’t know if the other side understands that there are some areas where we aren’t much farther along than hazell had us.

five years in.. other than cam Allen, we have an oft injured Marvin grant who has loads of talent but hasn’t been a consistent starter. By year 5.. with today’s recruiting advantages for any big ten team (unlike 15 years ago, IU and northwestern recruit with ease)… we should have Allen, Grant.. and ready made players with experience along the lines of Ralph Turner, Deante Ferrell and maybe even an Adrian Beasley… by year five.

At DT, other than watts, who has already served notice that they are even a Brent Grover or Brandon villareal?

opposite trice.. do we have anyone who has even shown that they are close to a Brandon King, anthony brown or Ashante Woodyard? Because to me, the only thing dedrick Mackey has proven is that he’s better than guys like James Dunnigan and Sean Petty

 

[purduepat1969]

No no.. I really don’t take things personally like some here. To me this is all a convergence of ideas, nothing more..

I agree. While I don’t want brohm fired, I also don’t know if the other side understands that there are some areas where we aren’t much farther along than hazell had us.

five years in.. other than cam Allen, we have an oft injured Marvin grant who has loads of talent but hasn’t been a consistent starter. By year 5.. with today’s recruiting advantages for any big ten team (unlike 15 years ago, IU and northwestern recruit with ease)… we should have Allen, Grant.. and ready made players with experience along the lines of Ralph Turner, Deante Ferrell and maybe even an Adrian Beasley… by year five.

At DT, other than watts, who has already served notice that they are even a Brent Grover or Brandon villareal?

opposite trice.. do we have anyone who has even shown that they are close to a Brandon King, anthony brown or Ashante Woodyard? Because to me, the only thing dedrick Mackey has proven is that he’s better than guys like James Dunnigan and Sean Petty

I honestly think the DB issues were coaching, not the backs. When you consistently play 5 to 10 yards off of the receiver, you'll either get nickel and dimed to death, or you'll get beat deep when you think you have to come up to stop a short yardage pass on a fake.

 

[FirstDownB]

No no.. I really don’t take things personally like some here. To me this is all a convergence of ideas, nothing more..

I agree. While I don’t want brohm fired, I also don’t know if the other side understands that there are some areas where we aren’t much farther along than hazell had us.

five years in.. other than cam Allen, we have an oft injured Marvin grant who has loads of talent but hasn’t been a consistent starter. By year 5.. with today’s recruiting advantages for any big ten team (unlike 15 years ago, IU and northwestern recruit with ease)… we should have Allen, Grant.. and ready made players with experience along the lines of Ralph Turner, Deante Ferrell and maybe even an Adrian Beasley… by year five.

At DT, other than watts, who has already served notice that they are even a Brent Grover or Brandon villareal?

opposite trice.. do we have anyone who has even shown that they are close to a Brandon King, anthony brown or Ashante Woodyard? Because to me, the only thing dedrick Mackey has proven is that he’s better than guys like James Dunnigan and Sean Petty

Here's where I am resting my hope for the defense..
#1 College players come and go faster than a fart in the wind. A nobody one year can be a stud the next. A lot of the guys you mention weren't known quantities either, until they all of a sudden, they were.
#2 Beyond blind hope, this 2021 season coincides with maturation of some pretty good recruiting classes. Although I can't point at a guy and say "there's Ralph Turner and Brent Grover", I believe there are many guys on the roster who we have not yet seen their best football.
#3 System/Playcalling. Can't really get much worse.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Here's where I am resting my hope for the defense..
#1 College players come and go faster than a fart in the wind. A nobody one year can be a stud the next. A lot of the guys you mention weren't known quantities either, until they all of a sudden, they were.
#2 Beyond blind hope, this 2021 season coincides with maturation of some pretty good recruiting classes. Although I can't point at a guy and say "there's Ralph Turner and Brent Grover", I believe there are many guys on the roster who we have not yet seen their best football.
#3 System/Playcalling. Can't really get much worse.

I wasn’t really posting that as though to say “this is why you shouldn’t have hope.” I think hope is what makes college football fun.

its more like this. Say brohm does go 4-8.. by the way I still won’t want him fired. But there’s two approaches one can take other than the unrealistic “fire brohm.”

1. “hey it is what it is. We are going 8-4 next year. Don’t think so? You’re an IU fan.”

2. You know, I don’t want brohm fired but here we were.. it was year 5… Horvath continued to be a serviceable back. Doerue didn’t really take the next step.. then he got hurt again and when the carries took their toll ok Horvath we just stopped being w threat to run the ball.”

tiller came here when you really couldn’t recruit at Purdue, IU and northwestern like you can today. If his 1997 staff came here now I think, like Fitzgerald, you’d be talking about a guy who would say “hey guys lets make sure that by year 5 we have kory sheets, Markell Jones, DJ Knox and jerod void in that meeting room and I’d we can get someone better than all those guys, great.”

fitzgerald would not come here and in year 5 not have one guy as good as Knox established…

NOW, if brohm does that and all the sudden it’s like “Marvin grant became a solid starter, Allen took the next step and then 3 other guys showed they could hold their own at safety .. and he does that everywhere.. you’ll know because he will be 9-3..

 

[jmohlman]

i agree that if we'd won more games the past two years, there's be a lot more comfort starting a former walk-on utility RB. However, we averaged 27.2 ppg last year (7th in B1G), and 25.4 in 2019 (8th in B1G); hardly something to get overly excited about, so it's not just the defense that was the problem the past 2 years.

I see your point on points per game and I agree with you. Let’s not forget though when the defense never stops the other team and the other team can go on long drives you’re limiting how many times you can get the ball and how many minutes you hold the ball every game. Teams with good defense score more because they have the ball more often. How many three and outs did we have last year? Probably bottom 10 in the entire country?

 

[purduepat1969]

I see your point on points per game and I agree with you. Let’s not forget though when the defense never stops the other team and the other team can go on long drives you’re limiting how many times you can get the ball and how many minutes you hold the ball every game. Teams with good defense score more because they have the ball more often. How many three and outs did we have last year? Probably bottom 10 in the entire country?

If you look at Purdue's red zone efficiency, you'd see the problem...

 

[wakeman2626]

I see your point on points per game and I agree with you. Let’s not forget though when the defense never stops the other team and the other team can go on long drives you’re limiting how many times you can get the ball and how many minutes you hold the ball every game. Teams with good defense score more because they have the ball more often. How many three and outs did we have last year? Probably bottom 10 in the entire country?

Yep this is why any per game stat is fairly meaningless to me without any other context. Much prefer the advanced metrics or even some of the per play ones but so many have moved behind paywalls, SP+ being the most prominent.

eg A team that scores 4 TDs on 4 possessions each starting at their own 5 yard line has the same PPG as a team that scores 4 TDs on 8 possessions starting at midfield. So are both offenses equal? Not even close.

 

[West James]

Personal Rushing Stats (B1G):
https://bigten.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2020

YPG: 7th
YPC: 12th
TDs: 21st
Longest run from scrimmage: 35yds

I'd take that as a workhorse RB every year...but those aren't "star" numbers when you're given the opportunities (15 carries per game, 5 receptions per game). I think his "receiver" numbers are much more impressive (knowing that he's a RB) getting 5 catchers per game:
https://bigten.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2020

RPG: 9th
YPG: 19th
CPG: 22th
TDs: 25th
Longest catch from scrimmage: 24th

Not pointing fingers, but to run successfully, you need (adequate/above avg./good) blocking/offensive line production. That can greatly/negatively affect the qb position (& others) as well.

Go Boilers!

 

[Evergr8ful]

Not pointing fingers, but to run successfully, you need (adequate/above avg./good) blocking/offensive line production. That can greatly/negatively affect the qb position (& others) as well.

Go Boilers!

Of course.

I don't think anyone thought OL was a weakness last year (or this coming season).

 

[West James]

Of course.

I don't think anyone thought OL was a weakness last year (or this coming season).

Obviously injury played a key roll, but I don't recall any of our running backs doing much better than Horvath did, running behind that line. Am I wrong?

 

[FirstDownB]

Of course.

I don't think anyone thought OL was a weakness last year (or this coming season).

96th rated oline in the country in 2020 according to PFF

 

[West James]

96th rated oline in the country in 2020 according to PFF

The O line greatly affects the qb & qb play/success as well.

96th doesn't surprise me./hard to run if there's no hole.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Of course.

I don't think anyone thought OL was a weakness last year (or this coming season).

It was fine last year until injuries hit.. then it was weak

Cam Craig specifically iirc