Trouble in Tucson...

[TwinDegrees2]

So your line of reasoning is that because Sean allegedly cheated then Archie must be a cheater? So by that logic it's fair to call Matt Painter a cheater because Steve Lutz is a cheater due to him being on staff at Creighton as the lead recruiter when they paid Bowen $150k? Does that follow any kind of rational logic? Of course it doesn't.

So if I get your premise correct, you don't believe either Big Brother, or his little brother has ever cheated....or that, and let's say for the sake of a discussion Sean is found guilty, that Archie was never instructed to "help us land this kid".

I've got a great farm with lot's of water in Louisiana I'll sell you cheap.

And of all the coaches out there today, Painter would be the one coach I'd say doesn't cheat, nor would he allow Lutz to do the same.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Okay, let's play your game. Thad Matta has never won it all, Archie Miller has never won it all, Mike Davis has never won it all, Dana Altman, Rick Barnes, Mick Cronin, Tom Crean, Jamie Dixon, or Kelvin Sampson have never won it all. Even our own Matt Painter, who's as highly regarded as any coach in the game today has never made it. Does that mean all those listed suck too? Your hatred tells all we need to know.

That's where you draw the line? A national title? So only coaches who have won a national title are good coaches?

What has Steve Alford accomplished in his 20+ years of coaching that warrants him being a good coach? Your infatuation with Alford tells me everything I need to know. You're really going to compare Alford to Thad Matta? Matta is statistically one of the best B10 coaches of all time. All those coaches sans Cronin and Painter have eclipsed the S16 and Painter has been more successful than Alford with half the amount of talent. Alford is the definition of underachiever.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

So if I get your premise correct, you don't believe either Big Brother, or his little brother has ever cheated....or that, and let's say for the sake of a discussion Sean is found guilty, that Archie was never instructed to "help us land this kid".

I've got a great farm with lot's of water in Louisiana I'll sell you cheap.

And of all the coaches out there today, Painter would be the one coach I'd say doesn't cheat, nor would he allow Lutz to do the same.

I'm saying it's logically irrational to say Archie is a cheater based on the fact he coached at Arizona from 2009-2011 especially when there isn't a single shroud of evidence that suggests or backs your claim. Is it fair to say Timothy McVeigh's brother is a terrorist because Tim was a terrorist? Is it fair to say Ted Bundy's brother is a serial killer because Ted was? Of course it isn't. If you can provide some examples that suggest Archie has cheated then I'd be happy to discuss. But to say Archie is a cheater because brother is a cheater doesn't hold water.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

That's where you draw the line? A national title? So only coaches who have won a national title are good coaches?

What has Steve Alford accomplished in his 20+ years of coaching that warrants him being a good coach? Your infatuation with Alford tells me everything I need to know. You're really going to compare Alford to Thad Matta? Matta is statistically one of the best B10 coaches of all time. All those coaches sans Cronin and Painter have eclipsed the S16 and Painter has been more successful than Alford with half the amount of talent. Alford is the definition of underachiever.

No infatuation at all....I can't understand your hatred.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

No infatuation at all....I can't understand your hatred.

Why do you love Alford? That is what I want to know.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

No infatuation at all....I can't understand your hatred.

Saying somebody is a terrible coach constitutes hatred? Got it.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Why do you love Alford? That is what I want to know.

Don't love him at all....

But as a former IU fan, who knows the family, Steve gets a lot of unfair criticism in my opinion. As said, "my opinion". He probably should never have taken the UCLA job because it's an impossible place to coach, and like IU is no longer the blue blood they once were.

Since this is a PU board, I'll let this subject die and cheer on Painter

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Why do you love Alford? That is what I want to know.

He's from New Castle, and is probably old enough to have watched Alford play in high school. Alford could kill 3 babies and the older crowd in NC would still think he's a god.

It also helps that Alford played for Twin's man crush in college.

Nice guy, but more of a mid P5 coach than top P5. I think he would do well at Penn St.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Don't love him at all....

But as a former IU fan, who knows the family, Steve gets a lot of unfair criticism in my opinion. As said, "my opinion". He probably should never have taken the UCLA job because it's an impossible place to coach, and like IU is no longer the blue blood they once were.

Since this is a PU board, I'll let this subject die and cheer on Painter

It's only an impossible place to coach if you're as underwhelming as Alford. Alford had handpicked 5* recruits every year at one of the best locations in the United States and could never get out of the S16. He lost to freaking Liberty and Belmont on their home court this year and to Cincinnati by 30 points before getting fired. To act like Alford was unfairly run out 5.5 years is more than egregious. He was terrible at Iowa, posted some decent numbers while at mid-major New Mexico but always choked in the tournament and was just flat out bad at UCLA.

 

[PaBoiler78]

So it’s 100% he’s gonna get canned... will say I prefer Miller high life in a bottle however

that was too easy, it was also my record of "likes" for a post in my career, just for posting a picture too.

 

[Boilers424]

that was too easy, it was also my record of "likes" for a post in my career, just for posting a picture too.

I would disappoint her so hard

 

[TwinDegrees2]

He's from New Castle, and is probably old enough to have watched Alford play in high school. Alford could kill 3 babies and the older crowd in NC would still think he's a god.

It also helps that Alford played for Twin's man crush in college.

Nice guy, but more of a mid P5 coach than top P5. I think he would do well at Penn St.

Man Crush???? Really? I thought you were one of those IU fans better than that. And yes, Steve would do well at PSU.

 

[BoilerJS]

that was too easy, it was also my record of "likes" for a post in my career, just for posting a picture too.

There is a reason I keep reading these non Purdue sports related posts.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

And yes, Steve would do well at PSU.

Actually I bet he would because the expectations would be so low a tPSU. He had low expectations at New Mexico and seemed to do well outside of the tournament.

 

[mreeser]

I can’t wait til Miller gets yossed and they just hire Mussleman from NV and just keep all of the recruits in the class because he’s probably a better coach anyway

 

[SIBoiler2]

Man Crush???? Really? I thought you were one of those IU fans better than that. And yes, Steve would do well at PSU.

You mean PSU the graveyard of basketball coaches?

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

I can’t wait til Miller gets yossed and they just hire Mussleman from NV and just keep all of the recruits in the class because he’s probably a better coach anyway

Bet Mussleman ends up at UCLA

 

[mreeser]

Bet Mussleman ends up at UCLA

Says who?

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Says who?

Me

 

[mreeser]

Me

Okay amigo, so what is Zeke gonna do?

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Okay amigo, so what is Zeke gonna do?

Nnaji your bidness

 

[mreeser]

Nnaji your bidness

Nice "choice" of wordplay, beefcake

 

[arcb102000]

Bet Mussleman ends up at UCLA

This would surprise me but not shock me. Musselman built up the Nevada team through transfers according to tv analysts doing their games. UCLA has not gone that route historically; they have not needed to do so.

I can see three candidates easily at UCLA:

Bennet of UVa

He coached in the conference previously and was successful. He has built up his program. He might want to go where he is the big dog and not have to fight it out with UNC and Duke.

Walton of the Lakers:

Evidently LeBron does not like him so he may be forced out. He has family ties to the program and stature in LA.

Shaka Smart

He has done OK but not great at Texas. He might want to get out of town while the getting is good. He would be a minority candidate with good PR skills. He strikes me as someone who could fit into the LA scene easily. The fertile recruiting ground of SoCal would seem to be made for him.

 

[mreeser]

This would surprise me but not shock me. Musselman built up the Nevada team through transfers according to tv analysts doing their games. UCLA has not gone that route historically; they have not needed to do so.

I can see three candidates easily at UCLA:

Bennet of UVa

He coached in the conference previously and was successful. He has built up his program. He might want to go where he is the big dog and not have to fight it out with UNC and Duke.

Walton of the Lakers:

Evidently LeBron does not like him so he may be forced out. He has family ties to the program and stature in LA.

Shaka Smart

He has done OK but not great at Texas. He might want to get out of town while the getting is good. He would be a minority candidate with good PR skills. He strikes me as someone who could fit into the LA scene easily. The fertile recruiting ground of SoCal would seem to be made for him.

I heard Tyger Campbell is going to player-coach the team next year

 

[Purdue85]

Nice "choice" of wordplay, beefcake

"beefcake"... lol!

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Okay amigo, so what is Zeke gonna do?

I'm not predicting or stating "Musselman to UCLA done deal" as you stated Miller fired, Musselman to IU, I just think when the dust settles Musselman will be a prime candidate for UCLA. I think he'll luck into the job kind of how Alford did. UCLA will shoot for the stars, miss their targets and Musselman will be that 4th or 5th option.

Nnaji will be at Zona next year with their two other top 10 recruits.

 

[mreeser]

I'm not predicting or stating "Musselman to UCLA done deal" as you stated Miller fired, Musselman to IU, I just think when the dust settles Musselman will be a prime candidate for UCLA. I think he'll luck into the job kind of how Alford did. UCLA will shoot for the stars, miss their targets and Musselman will be that 4th or 5th option.

Nnaji will be at Zona next year with their two other top 10 recruits.

Agreed on the Zeke assessment

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Agreed on the Zeke assessment

As much history as UCLA has and as prime a location it is to attract talent, UCLA just isn't a top end job because they are relatively cheap. Their facilities aren't great and they don't pay blue-blood salaries. Alford was only making $2.6 million/yr which is a lot closer in line to what Purdue pays Painter than what Duke, UK, or Kansas pay their coaches. Unless UCLA really ponies up they're once again going to end up with a 3rd or 4th option.

 

[arcb102000]

Agreed on the Zeke assessment

It is interesting that the family did not let him sign a LOI. They obviously want to keep options open. A reasonable explanation for that is that they fear sanctions or a possible Miller firing. Given the trials are going on and others are upcoming, a lot of news could break as people flip to get reduced sentences.

As for AZ, they used Ayton who is reported under oath to have had money forwarded to the family. As I understand NCAA rules, that is prohibited. I would have to think that they are going to get penalized for that given the high profile of the player and school as well as the publicity.

Perhaps hopeful OADs don't care about play in the tournament and if it enhances their draft status. If so, then the class may stay together. I just have a hard time believing that is true.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

It is interesting that the family did not let him sign a LOI. They obviously want to keep options open. A reasonable explanation for that is that they fear sanctions or a possible Miller firing. Given the trials are going on and others are upcoming, a lot of news could break as people flip to get reduced sentences.

As for AZ, they used Ayton who is reported under oath to have had money forwarded to the family. As I understand NCAA rules, that is prohibited. I would have to think that they are going to get penalized for that given the high profile of the player and school as well as the publicity.

Perhaps hopeful OADs don't care about play in the tournament and if it enhances their draft status. If so, then the class may stay together. I just have a hard time believing that is true.

The NCAA isn't going to do anything. You just saw de Sousa (not Self or Kansas) get in trouble. At the very worst Arizona is going to have to forfeit the games Ayton played in. In the grand scheme of things, big deal, they lost in the first round of the tourney to a 13 seed. Arizona isn't going to fire Sean Miller nor is the NCAA going to levy any kind of significant sanctions against UA in regards to the FBI investigation.

And if Miller gets fired he's allowed to be released for his LOI. So no it isn't that interesting.

 

[arcb102000]

So I guess that there is no pattern at KU and no pattern at AZ. Believe what you like.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

So I guess that there is no pattern at KU and no pattern at AZ. Believe what you like.

What? Never said there wasn’t a pattern just not gullible to the idea that the NCAA is going to drop the hammer on either program in the next 6 months and you’ll see a max exodus of de-commitments choosing to go to Purdue. There’s a reason why 3 of the schools implicated by the FBI have top 5 recruiting classes and it’s becsuss the NCAA isn’t going to do a damn thing.

Arizona is all in on Miller now. They had the chance to fire Miller last year when the initial reports came out and didn’t. They obviously don’t expect the NCAA to levy major sanctions nor do committed recruits.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

What? Never said there wasn’t a pattern just not gullible to the idea that the NCAA is going to drop the hammer on either program in the next 6 months and you’ll see a max exodus of de-commitments choosing to go to Purdue. There’s a reason why 3 of the schools implicated by the FBI have top 5 recruiting classes and it’s becsuss the NCAA isn’t going to do a damn thing.

Arizona is all in on Miller now. They had the chance to fire Miller last year when the initial reports came out and didn’t. They obviously don’t expect the NCAA to levy major sanctions nor do committed recruits.

So if the only consequence for cheating this blatantly is getting a top 5 recruiting class, why isn’t IU doing it too? Or are they just bad at cheating like they’re bad at everything else?

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

So if the only consequence for cheating this blatantly is getting a top 5 recruiting class, why isn’t IU doing it too? Or are they just bad at cheating like they’re bad at everything else?

Would probably be a question for Archie and/or the IU administration who foots him a check every other week.

I think we've seen in the last week a taste of what is to come. The NCAA ruled de Sousa ineligible, notice nothing happened with Kansas or Self? I think at worst schools will have to vacate wins if a player was deemed ineligible but you aren't going to see death penalty-esque situations from the fallout of the FBI investigation especially since some of the NCAA's cash cows are involved. It's bad for business.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Would probably be a question for Archie and/or the IU administration who foots him a check every other week.

I think we've seen in the last week a taste of what is to come. The NCAA ruled de Sousa ineligible, notice nothing happened with Kansas or Self? I think at worst schools will have to vacate wins if a player was deemed ineligible but you aren't going to see death penalty-esque situations from the fallout of the FBI investigation especially since some of the NCAA's cash cows are involved. It's bad for business.

Nothing has happened yet. I’m not claiming death penalty but I also don’t think we’ve even started the third act of this Greek tragedy.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

This would surprise me but not shock me. Musselman built up the Nevada team through transfers according to tv analysts doing their games. UCLA has not gone that route historically; they have not needed to do so.

I can see three candidates easily at UCLA:

Bennet of UVa

He coached in the conference previously and was successful. He has built up his program. He might want to go where he is the big dog and not have to fight it out with UNC and Duke.

Walton of the Lakers:

Evidently LeBron does not like him so he may be forced out. He has family ties to the program and stature in LA.

Shaka Smart

He has done OK but not great at Texas. He might want to get out of town while the getting is good. He would be a minority candidate with good PR skills. He strikes me as someone who could fit into the LA scene easily. The fertile recruiting ground of SoCal would seem to be made for him.

Maybe Walton, but Smart is a far worse choice than the guy they just fired. Bennet is very happy at UVA and is competing with and against the best. And Walton's daddy was on Alford from day one.

 

[Bay Area Boiler]

Nothing has happened yet. I’m not claiming death penalty but I also don’t think we’ve even started the third act of this Greek tragedy.

But nothing is going to happen between now and the 4 months before Zeke is due on campus, at least in terms of NCAA rulings. And Arizona's coach isn't even going on trial. He plead guilty to federal bribery charges (not necessarily an NCAA violation). Without him going to trial, there's a very real chance the NCAA never sniffs the evidence the Feds have because he plead guilty and none of it circulates in court (remember the Feds aren't looking for dirt on who committed NCAA violations).

 

[BoilerBulldog]

But nothing is going to happen between now and the 4 months before Zeke is due on campus, at least in terms of NCAA rulings. And Arizona's coach isn't even going on trial. He plead guilty to federal bribery charges (not necessarily an NCAA violation). Without him going to trial, there's a very real chance the NCAA never sniffs the evidence the Feds have because he plead guilty and none of it circulates in court (remember the Feds aren't looking for dirt on who committed NCAA violations).

I don’t disagree. I was speaking more generally under the assumption you said nothing would ever happen to AZ and KU. I agree on Zeke.

 

[arcb102000]

But nothing is going to happen between now and the 4 months before Zeke is due on campus, at least in terms of NCAA rulings. And Arizona's coach isn't even going on trial. He plead guilty to federal bribery charges (not necessarily an NCAA violation). Without him going to trial, there's a very real chance the NCAA never sniffs the evidence the Feds have because he plead guilty and none of it circulates in court (remember the Feds aren't looking for dirt on who committed NCAA violations).

I would think that the NCAA could file a tort suit against him claiming his actions damaged their brand. If so, then discovery would presumably allow them to ask questions under oath and get access to files, etc. That could get them the info.

 

[SIBoiler2]

So if the only consequence for cheating this blatantly is getting a top 5 recruiting class, why isn’t IU doing it too? Or are they just bad at cheating like they’re bad at everything else?

As an Adidas "affiliate" IU has had some good recruits fall into their lap going back to Eric Gordon. The problem has been too many phone calls, a bad case of the clap, and now settling for Miller Lite.