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Time for a new HC

At the risk of you thinking I am negative towards your post, I disagree with your thoughts on depth. Where the program is when you start matters. Unless you talk Saban into leaving Alabama, you aren’t talking 4 and 5 stars at every position into coming to one of the worst P5 schools. So depth is built incrementally. Imo Brohm has done this. Our defense isn’t a top level defense in the Big but we are much deeper than when Brohm took over. Today is a great example. Our best cb by a mile was out and another starting caliber cb came in and played well. Imo the only three positions on the whole team that had quality depth was qb, rb and te. Brohm has maintained that and added wr and pretty much every position group on defense.

I am happy with the progress Brohm has made since he took over. We are pretty much competitive in every game we play now. 5 years ago we absolutely could not have said that.
Disagree about depth on the team. It’s most difficult to get offensive and defensive linemen. Other positions can be filled and have been somewhat over the years. Our team has one stud defensive lineman and none on the other side. Purdue hasn’t had stud offensive lineman as a unit since the Rose Bowl team. Until they get the right o-line coach and better lineman the team will be battling to be average. Need to find some more defensive ends and tackles to solidify the trenches. It’s what’s up front that counts.
 
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Disagree about depth on the team. It’s most difficult to get offensive and defensive linemen. Other positions can be filled and have been somewhat over the years. Our team has one stud defensive lineman and none on the other side. Purdue hasn’t had stud offensive lineman as a unit since the Rose Bowl team. Until they get the right o-line coach and better lineman the team will be battling to be average. Need to find some more defensive ends and tackles to solidify the trenches. It’s what’s up front that counts.

I won’t get into an argument but I would just ask you to go look at our starting 4 d-linemen in Hazell’s last year. Imo all 4 our our staring d linemen would start on that team and probably a couple of our reserves.

O-line i can see your argument. But we are clearly getting better recruits there.
 
Disagree about depth on the team. It’s most difficult to get offensive and defensive linemen. Other positions can be filled and have been somewhat over the years. Our team has one stud defensive lineman and none on the other side. Purdue hasn’t had stud offensive lineman as a unit since the Rose Bowl team. Until they get the right o-line coach and better lineman the team will be battling to be average. Need to find some more defensive ends and tackles to solidify the trenches. It’s what’s up front that counts.

Also the team before Brohm got here only won 3 games and only a single Big Ten game. So if/when we surpass those numbers it will be hard to argue that this team isn’t deeper and better than that team all around.
 
Also the team before Brohm got here only won 3 games and only a single Big Ten game. So if/when we surpass those numbers it will be hard to argue that this team isn’t deeper and better than that team all around.
It may be, but I’m talking about moving the needle to get 8 to 9 wins. Maybe it can’t be done here, but I hold out hope.
 
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It may be, but I’m talking about moving the needle to get 8 to 9 wins. Maybe it can’t be done here, but I hold out hope.

I think we can get there for sure. I just don’t think in a conference like the big ten you can go from a 2-3 win team each year for 4 years to consistent 8 win team in 5 years.

Here is to hoping we are on that road though!!!!!
 
I think we can get there for sure. I just don’t think in a conference like the big ten you can go from a 2-3 win team each year for 4 years to consistent 8 win team in 5 years.

Here is to hoping we are on that road though!!!!!
How many wins did Tiller have his first year?
 
How many wins did Tiller have his first year?

Yes Joe Tiller did it. And I love Joe Tiller but there were 3 teams in the Big Ten worse than Purdue the year before he got here. In the 4 years leading up to Brohm, Purdue had the worst (or tied for the worst) Big Ten record 3 of the 4 years. And they were a whopping 13th of 14 the 4th year. Imo Purdue was the absolute worst P5 team in the country when Brohm took over. And as great as the turn around was that Tiller did, he didn’t have nearly the uphill battle that Brohm had.
 
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How many wins did Tiller have his first year?
Do we need to do this again? Detail the immense difference between that 1997 roster and the 2017 roster?

Edit:
Below (in italics) is a partial post from a few months ago. There's more I could add to this, but (and I know some people are not going to like this) this thread illustrates the inability of some people to withstand adversity within this program.

Most people significantly underestimate the "perfect storm" Tiller walked into. He had multiple future NFL OL (Matt Light was moved from TE to OL), a seasoned QB (Dicken) who could learn quickly and make good decisions, very good skill players, the solid nucleus of a reasonably good D, and an offense that the rest of the league simply wasn't prepared for. Throw in the recruitment of a future NFL legend/HOF QB very few programs wanted to take a chance on, and that gave Tiller, Spack, et al the luxury of moving players around (I believe Jason Loerzel was moved from TE to LB?).

Although Colletto was not a great recruiter, I think we all took for granted exactly how much talent was on that roster in 1997.
 
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I agree with most posters here. He inherited a dumpster fire and needed some time to correct. However, for what he is making salary wise I certainly thought we’d be a little farther along at this point. If things don’t improve in a few more years I think certainly reasonable to change directions. The one thing that has changed is the blowouts - the team has been competitive on the field for most games.
 
I agree with most posters here. He inherited a dumpster fire and needed some time to correct. However, for what he is making salary wise I certainly thought we’d be a little farther along at this point. If things don’t improve in a few more years I think certainly reasonable to change directions. The one thing that has changed is the blowouts - the team has been competitive on the field for most games.

He is making a lot. But we had to pay him to keep him. Essentially the market determined his salary.

I do agree that where we are now cannot be the ceiling. We have to keep improving.
 
How many wins did Tiller have his first year?
For goodness sakes, Tiller inherited a better program than Brohm. I don't think you can debate that. Can we stop with the "Fire Brohm" posts?

There are things to be optimistic about:
1) This team played a close game at Notre Dame against a Notre Dame team with a lot of talent across the board.
2) The turnaround of the defense is pretty remarkable. Had the D not been put in pretty bad field position time and time again, they would likely have held Notre Dame to even fewer points. This is a well coached defense.
3) There weren't a ton of head scratching stupid plays. Penalties were kept to a minimum.

That being said, the offense left a lot to be desired. Hopefully they'll make progress, but the OL needs to be watching a lot of film.
 
Interesting that, after the first two wins, there wasn't much (any?) b.s. like this.

Now, it's as if they've been licking their chops and rubbing their hands, just waiting.

It's quite revealing.
We used to see the same kind of band-wagon fans over on the basketball board. They would post only after a loss. You never saw them otherwise. I suspect we will see them again this year. After all every college basketball team but one loses their last game.
 
you talk about brohm's recruiting. How many more years does a coach need to build depth? Coaches usually are never given 7-10 years to build depth. it's expected to happen within 3-4 years. We added a lot of players via grad transfer and portal transdfers this yea r that were supposed to have experience to provide depth. I sometimes get annoyed at people saying we need to wait a few more years.

brohm arrived the same year allen and fleck arrived. You can no longer credit or blame his predecessor or their predecessor for where each program is. All of the players and coaches on each team are the ones each coach wanted on their teams.

it appears Carr is the second coming of eastern. it appears we dodged a bullet. he had another 0 catch day.

Our oline is as bad today as it was when i started complaining about it 7 years ago. You'd think by now there would either be improvement, or a different philosophy in either blocking schemes, development, recruiting or coaching.

I mentioned this a couple years ago, in that high school players already do a lot of strength and conditioning. Today's football players don't really add much strength by red shirting or muscle. What you see is close to what they are going to be. You can't really expect an 18 year old to gain 50 pounds and grow from 250 to 300 pounds by redshirting and doing strength and conditioning. if you want a 300 pound lineman, you must recruit one. And brohm is starting to realize this in his past two recruiting classes. Look at hartwig. he didn't redshirt. We need to find more players like him who are ready to contribute from day 1. And i'm tired of people saying, well the y redshirt people at alabama and OSU. I guarantee if those same recruits came to Purdue, they would start from day 1. it's time we made getting 4-5 star o lineman our priority. Look at USC. their QBs looked awesome because their line gave them all day to throw.

the other potential fix action for our O'line could be changing our blocking schemes. I'm not exactly sure what type we have employed. but it obviously hasn't worked for the past 7+ years. I heard a zone blocking scheme is great for passing attacks. gree n bay used it. f our offense is going to be passing oriented, I believe what purdue needs is a blocking scheme that is geared toward protecting the passer. let the passing game set up our running attack.

As for brohm, the only thing i don't like is the salary he's being paid. if we're going to be a losing team, we could have kept hope at 1/10th the cost. if we hadn't fired hope, would our record be any different over the past 7 years? I doubt it highly. Hope took us to 2 bowl games too.

I wasn't a les miles fan, but i'm also tired of people rubbing it in. TCT4HREE< who did you want? I doubt it was anybody better. 99% of you are quick to critisize somebody for offering an opinion, but only about 1% of yo u were brave enough to offer your own opinion at the time. Every time i ask this question, all i hear are dead cricket silence. the vast majority of you were not brave enough to stick your neck out and suggest anybody. The majority of this board only said they liked brohm after he was hired, not before.

When i look at brohm, and firing him, i ask bluntly, do yo u have somebody in mind who you believe is actually better? and the answer is those same dead crickets again. if you want to intiate a subject, rather than just complaining, you need to include a name and solution. Purdue played a great game today. Most intelligent people predicted we would lose. only a blind homer would have predicted a win.

And complaining about the refs? if yo u knew they were biased for the past 20 years, why are you still complaining about them today? You knew going in they were going to be biased, so you need to incorporate that into your game plan. Wade boggs was a hall of fame hitter. Why? because he knew the strike zone every ref would call. he incorporated that into his game plan and he knew when and when not to swing. Boggs got a lot of hits, but also got a lot of walks as well. Boggs took the refs into consideration.

I was banned once for my criticism of hazell and his recruits. I was called out as being too negative. I've admitted many times i know very little about the nuances of college football. but even wit h m y little knowledge, i knew the hazell hiring was a huge mistake, and his recruits were not BIG 10 caliber players. i hated the hazell hiring and said so even before he was hired. I said yo u don't hire somebody based on 1 good year at a lower level school.

I wanted an experienced coach that was a name coach that could attract elite players. I offered two names. one name was tressel. And when i brought up his name, i admited because of his NCAA sanctions, purdue would never hire him. But he was the type of coach i wanted - somebody with experience, a name and a winning history. the other coach i liked was tommy bowden. He had success at auburn, was a great recruiter, and was a name and also was very available. What i didn't want was a young coach who would use purdue as leverage or a stepping stone for something greater. I may have even suggested kiffin.

Something you people seem to forget. in most cases when a poster suggests a name, they are usually referring to that type of coach, rather than that exact coach. and typically, when a person suggests a name, they also usually admit the reality they realize purdue would never hire that person. There are some NFL head coaches that I believe would make tremendous coaches, but I'm realistic enough to know they'd never consider accepting a n offer to coach at Purdue.

So when saying you want brohm fired, I encourage you to offer up a name/solution as tolo who you want hired. and for those of you who are always on people's cases for their choices, i believe it's time yo u wer e brave enough to admit your choices and allow others to critisize you. if you refuse to stick your neck out, then stop bad mouthing others. and the files do exist. Some of you look pretty stupid when you praised the hazell hiring. and i've got enough time on my hands, I can find the links to your comments 8 years ago whe n yo u thought hazell was going to lead us to the promised land. and then there were the predictions of brohm leading us to 8-3 and 9-2 and western conference championships within 3 years. Some of you made some real stupid predictions yourselves.

I'll admit once more, I don't know much about college football. But from my observations of posts on this board, the vast majority of posters don't know much more than i do. and isn't it about time you supported other fans rather than always looking for fault? Am i and other posters you always critisize less of a fan than you? i readily admit i don't know everything. I come here to learn and gather information. and the majority of posts made here are just people insulting each other. while others are strutting their stuff because they know everything. if you know everything, why do you spend so much time posting on the internet? why aren't you coaching?

why does this board always have to be so negative towards others? Why can't you accept the fact people have different opinions? and agree to disagree? and share a coke and a pizza? When i went to school, i hoped Mark herrman would lead us to the rose bowl. but I was intelligent enough to realize Michigan and OSU were better teams, and we'd have to get lucky for my hopes to become reality. I always hope for a victory, but i also am objective enough to realize sometime it won't happen. I'm happy when we win, but i seldom expect it. I've been right before, and i've made mistakes. Purdue taught me to analyze things and draw conclusions . the scientific method. I apply that to football. In order to beat teams like notre dame, the experts said we needed to pass, pass, pass and pass again. in order to do that, the o line had to provide pass protection. a weak o line is not going to provide great pass portection. without it, our passing game will not enjoy success. without that , we will lose. You don't have to know much about football to realize that.

and my apologies to all those people that claimed to have read moby Dick and every harry Potter book, but believe my posts are too long. Stop using your cell phones and go back to your 24 inch monitors. the average person can read this post within 2-3 minutes. which is a lot less time than it will take you to complain.

I'd like to teach the world to sing too. But I'm no longer a singing member of the Glee Club.

Purdue's football tema is off to such a positive and awesome season. it would be nice if its fans could also be positive. and the way you treated our guests from notre dame ? it's as if you're still living in the basements of your frats. You are purdue graduates. Some of the most intelligent people in the world. its' time to start using that intelligence. Criticism and hatred do not lead to success, they only lead to additional criticism and hatred. Notre dame and IU are tremendous universities. every BIG 10 university is an awesome place. You don't need to argue about admissions or intelligence. I'm a methodist, not a Catholic. We have different religions. but we accept our differences. is this the way you act in public?

We lost today. the better team won . learn something. and press on. if you gave it your best shot, you should have nothing to be ashamed of.

IS a football athlete better than an olympic track athlete? I don't think so. but how many times have people on this board put down track athletes? i do know their attitude and philosophy about competition are a lot different. In the past 3 years , I've had the opportunity to meet and know some world class track athletes. one of them saved my life last year. he personally drove me to the hospital. and we sure didn't argue about our schools or admission standards. I rooted for three olympians. they didn't win, but they gave everything they had. and they each congratulated the victor. They know the meaning of sportsmanship.

I encourage each of you to review your previous 50 posts. how many of them provided encouragement to other posters? how many of them were just to find fault? it's time to put the les miles critisism in the trash . the truth is there was more than just one person who suggested his name. I'll also admit i liked the akers hiring. it seemed like a good hire at the time. It didn't work out. I'm sure many of you also liked the akers hiring at the time. I doubt many of you will admit it or inform us who your choice was. Some people are bold and speculate and make predictions and have crazy ideas. . Those are the type of people who are ultimately successful in life. people who find fault in everything and everybody usually end up being bitter and alone.

I often wondered what kind of a fan posts on the internet in a game thread during a game ? Aren't yo u watching the game ? and do yo u swear as much in real life, or do you just do it here because your wife won't let you do at home?

the sun will come out tommorow. Bet your bottom dollar that tommorow, there'll be sun. and if there's not, there's always my facebook page to look at. that should lift your spirits.
Congrats, this is by far the longest post I have ever not read on this forum.
 
Do we need to do this again? Detail the immense difference between that 1997 roster and the 2017 roster?

Edit:
Below (in italics) is a partial post from a few months ago. There's more I could add to this, but (and I know some people are not going to like this) this thread illustrates the inability of some people to withstand adversity within this program.

Most people significantly underestimate the "perfect storm" Tiller walked into. He had multiple future NFL OL (Matt Light was moved from TE to OL), a seasoned QB (Dicken) who could learn quickly and make good decisions, very good skill players, the solid nucleus of a reasonably good D, and an offense that the rest of the league simply wasn't prepared for. Throw in the recruitment of a future NFL legend/HOF QB very few programs wanted to take a chance on, and that gave Tiller, Spack, et al the luxury of moving players around (I believe Jason Loerzel was moved from TE to LB?).

Although Colletto was not a great recruiter, I think we all took for granted exactly how much talent was on that roster in 1997.
The "Haze" set this program back about 5 to 7 years...

And it's pretty clear, based on the first 3 games, progress has been made with this team. The biggest issue going forward is the OL...
 
Interesting that, after the first two wins, there wasn't much (any?) b.s. like this.

Now, it's as if they've been licking their chops and rubbing their hands, just waiting.

It's quite revealing.
At least with me I give my take going into the season .. I was wrong .. I can’t stand people who say nothing all off-season then jump out like flashers.
 
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Disagree about depth on the team. It’s most difficult to get offensive and defensive linemen. Other positions can be filled and have been somewhat over the years. Our team has one stud defensive lineman and none on the other side. Purdue hasn’t had stud offensive lineman as a unit since the Rose Bowl team. Until they get the right o-line coach and better lineman the team will be battling to be average. Need to find some more defensive ends and tackles to solidify the trenches. It’s what’s up front that counts.
This post makes me feel like “well you know, you won’t ever ever ever be able to get good linemen here cause we aren’t a marquee program and not in a state like Wisconsin” posts are about 2 weeks away. Before Louis skolnick comes over from KHC to tell us all that Purdue can never land a big recruit again lol
 
Good mindset …

more importantly I think there’s a few things going on in confluence..

> whole team is playing their asses off
> very possible we get to 6 wins
> we started this season with give or take 7 guys who had already proven themselves to be quality big ten level starters … looks like we are about to have a LOT of players developed in one season

Add all that up and I’m happy
We still need an offensive line. Love to see what a qb here could do with protection. Watched Penn St. And their quarterback could have fixed a sandwich while looking for a receiver.
Brohm has had some built in excuses but it’s time for the next step.
 
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We still need an offensive line. Love to see what a qb here could do with protection. Watched Penn St. And their quarterback could have fixed a sandwich while looking for a receiver.
Brohm has had some built in excuses but it’s time for the next step.
I agree we do .. I don’t think Williams is of the same caliber as the other coaches

It was pretty obvious brohm didn’t have a good network when he hired Diaco .. then he went out and made some awesome hires this off-season. After 2021 I’m imagining he’s possibly going to need to be upgrading the OL coach position and hopefully locking down a nice transfer or two
 
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You can think what you want, but that doesn't make Brohm any more than what he is. A mediocre coach making mediocrity the norm.
He made a terrible hire in Diaco and he’s satisfactorily fixed that side of the ball with great hires. Now he needs to do the same with the OL position and his recruiting skills need to be focused on getting two ready made OL who are better than Greg long by a full notch …

in game he will be fine.. expect 7-5 at least next year if he does this.
 
You can think what you want, but that doesn't make Brohm any more than what he is. A mediocre coach making mediocrity the norm.
you have a blind spot on this topic you're unable to recognize, then move past. From the outset you hated the hire, and it appears there's nothing that's going to cause you to cease grinding this axe.

Brohm took over a program with ZERO margin for error.
  • game planning
  • play calling and execution
  • in-game adjustments
  • hiring decisions
  • recruiting
  • development
  • health/injuries
That he hasn't been flawless in every area does not make him a mediocre coach.
 
you have a blind spot on this topic you're unable to recognize, then move past. From the outset you hated the hire, and it appears there's nothing that's going to cause you to cease grinding this axe.

Brohm took over a program with ZERO margin for error.
  • game planning
  • play calling and execution
  • in-game adjustments
  • hiring decisions
  • recruiting
  • development
  • health/injuries
That he hasn't been flawless in every area does not make him a mediocre coach.
Not to mention that mediocrity is a huge step up from where we were before he took over…
 
He made a terrible hire in Diaco and he’s satisfactorily fixed that side of the ball with great hires. Now he needs to do the same with the OL position and his recruiting skills need to be focused on getting two ready made OL who are better than Greg long by a full notch …

in game he will be fine.. expect 7-5 at least next year if he does this.
Yep, let's wait until next year. The number one mantra from delusional fans who think he hasn't had enough time to turn it around. We've waited on that to happen for five years and we still look about the same. And remember, he got us to the bowl games with a lot of the Haze's players.
 
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Yep, let's wait until next year. The number one mantra from delusional fans who think he hasn't had enough time to turn it around. We've waited on that to happen for five years and we still look about the same. And remember, he got us to the bowl games with a lot of the Haze's players.
I’m not a homer. Next year he needs to produce .. this year he should still be doing ok.

I was in the same boat as you but then I went back and looked and the problem was.. hazell left some seniors, but then the terrible recruiting hit in 2018 and 19.. when he was starting fresh with entire units or groups of players. For example, when Elijah sindelar got injured, in between him and plummer there should have been another Elijah sindelar that. brohm inherited.

where as now, you have plummer then alaimo then Allen next year
 
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Yep, let's wait until next year. The number one mantra from delusional fans who think he hasn't had enough time to turn it around. We've waited on that to happen for five years and we still look about the same. And remember, he got us to the bowl games with a lot of the Haze's players.
"delusional"

If you think this program "look(s) about the same", I would respectfully suggest it's not those with which you disagree (and apparently view with contempt) who are "delusional"...
 
You can think what you want, but that doesn't make Brohm any more than what he is. A mediocre coach making mediocrity the norm.
You can think what you want, but were adamant Les Miles was a good coaching candidate. So what you think doesn't hold much water.
 
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I won’t get into an argument but I would just ask you to go look at our starting 4 d-linemen in Hazell’s last year. Imo all 4 our our staring d linemen would start on that team and probably a couple of our reserves.

O-line i can see your argument. But we are clearly getting better recruits there.

It hurts that something like 7 OL committed and signed during CJB's tenure quit football completely for various reasons, mostly injury. Not excusing it, but that seems extreme and at a position group like OL will certainly kill attempts at building depth.

The starting 5 still isn't even good so how/why would we have depth?
 
Neither did I but his play calling sucked.
Exactly. Running the ball on critical short yardage situations when our OL was completely dominated by ND's DL and he made the same bad call repeatedly. Also, Plummer played well with that same OL and there was no reason to replace him with AOC.
 
Brohm has finally made a few good coaching changes, except for some reason he keeps the O Line coach, I don't understand that at all. Head coach success depends on his assistants , he must be super good friends with Williams.
 
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Yes Joe Tiller did it. And I love Joe Tiller but there were 3 teams in the Big Ten worse than Purdue the year before he got here. In the 4 years leading up to Brohm, Purdue had the worst (or tied for the worst) Big Ten record 3 of the 4 years. And they were a whopping 13th of 14 the 4th year. Imo Purdue was the absolute worst P5 team in the country when Brohm took over. And as great as the turn around was that Tiller did, he didn’t have nearly the uphill battle that Brohm had.
Didn't Tiller start with a ok o line
 
Brohm has finally made a few good coaching changes, except for some reason he keeps the O Line coach, I don't understand that at all. Head coach success depends on his assistants , he must be super good friends with Williams.
Neil Callaway is the OL Coach now. Williams coaches TEs.
 
We're 2-1 and a person is calling on firing the coach. GTFO!
Still on track for 6-6 which while many say is mediocre, it is equally true that it is an improvement over the last two years.

Let the season play out. A few people have pointed out that this season won't be his last regardless due to payout. Next season, he needs to move it forward to winning season, whatever that looks like. Improved OL, improved transfer portal players, improved recruits, etc, etc.

Brohm's game plan against ND wasn't horrid, if the 4th & 3 wouldn't have hit a homerun for ND and Durham catches the ball vs INT in the endzone, how would that have looked? The tighter the competition, the less margin of error is to win that game. Isn't that being competitive? I ask cause I do not believe fred rerun berry understands. He may need some enlightenment & I highly suspect that he is an IU fan (82 posts since 2004) stoking a for a fire where there is a bit of smoke. That is all.
 
We're 2-1 and a person is calling on firing the coach. GTFO!
Still on track for 6-6 which while many say is mediocre, it is equally true that it is an improvement over the last two years.

Let the season play out. A few people have pointed out that this season won't be his last regardless due to payout. Next season, he needs to move it forward to winning season, whatever that looks like. Improved OL, improved transfer portal players, improved recruits, etc, etc.

Brohm's game plan against ND wasn't horrid, if the 4th & 3 wouldn't have hit a homerun for ND and Durham catches the ball vs INT in the endzone, how would that have looked? The tighter the competition, the less margin of error is to win that game. Isn't that being competitive? I ask cause I do not believe fred rerun berry understands. He may need some enlightenment & I highly suspect that he is an IU fan (82 posts since 2004) stoking a for a fire where there is a bit of smoke. That is all.
I was on campus when we were 8-2 year after year and the students were screaming "Fire Fat Jack!" (Mollenkopf)
 
Brohm’s best line after practice was “ I just want him to catch it and kick it!” Maybe the same could be said about this topic.
 
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