The protests have begun.

[BoilerJS]

Potentially. I don’t think we are out of the woods yet, though. Those Chinese tariffs are a huge deal. Anecdotally, I have a family member that is likely to lose his business over them. Granted I think he would be someone who Trump would say is “weak.” Just inherently, the Chinese tariffs are going to have big ramifications in the us that will at least start out very negative.

Also, the only reason it has gone up is because Trump partially paused the tariffs, not because of any accomplished victory with them. If he keeps them going in 90 days, it’ll just keep dropping.

The Trade War with China is concerning.
There needs to be more fair trade with China. They need to quit stealing our technical innovations.
But as much stuff as we get from China, inflation is inevitable.
It will hurt China more than the US. BUT the Chinese government doesn't give a $hit about it's citizens or their suffering.
Is Trump willing to hold out at the immediate expense of increased product from China to achieve his long term goal of bringing back manufacturing to the US?
Or will the impact of the tariff's, on China, get the US population upset enough for Trump to cave to China?

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

The Trade War with China is concerning.
There needs to be more fair trade with China. They need to quit stealing our technical innovations.
But as much stuff as we get from China, inflation is inevitable.
It will hurt China more than the US. BUT the Chinese government doesn't give a $hit about it's citizens or their suffering.
Is Trump willing to hold out at the immediate expense of increased product from China to achieve his long term goal of bringing back manufacturing to the US?
Or will the impact of the tariff's, on China, get the US population upset enough for Trump to cave to China?

Nothing will ever be fair with China. They don't give a damn about western conventions like cheating or stealing. They think it's clever.

 

[Katscratch]

Actually if one would have bought when I said, and then sold at the end of the day it went up.....I think the S&P would have yielded a ~ 10% return.

If they held through today that return would be substantially less.

Full-on trade war with China, 10% tariff on our free-trade agreement trading partners, bond markets are still nervous as hell, and consumer confidence is not good. Another very bad day for the economy - markets hate volatility and Trump is Captain Chaos.

What a mess.

 

[tjreese]

Potentially. I don’t think we are out of the woods yet, though. Those Chinese tariffs are a huge deal. Anecdotally, I have a family member that is likely to lose his business over them. Granted I think he would be someone who Trump would say is “weak.” Just inherently, the Chinese tariffs are going to have big ramifications in the us that will at least start out very negative.

Also, the only reason it has gone up is because Trump partially paused the tariffs, not because of any accomplished victory with them. If he keeps them going in 90 days, it’ll just keep dropping.

You have some points...especially since a victory dance on the market is premature. I'm guessing that your family member sells a lot of things from China? If at the long term he buys and sells USA product he will still be competing against business going down the same river. He may no longer have the price difference, but those that have bought from him in the past and see his prices similar may still buy from him. Naturally his margin has decreased, but his competition has a similar margin and so now location and service may be more important..."IF" your family member sells China products. Off the top of my head I'm unsure how much grain China buys from the USA that they can get elsewhere...because they do want to eat!

 

[tjreese]

The Trade War with China is concerning.
There needs to be more fair trade with China. They need to quit stealing our technical innovations.
But as much stuff as we get from China, inflation is inevitable.
It will hurt China more than the US. BUT the Chinese government doesn't give a $hit about it's citizens or their suffering.
Is Trump willing to hold out at the immediate expense of increased product from China to achieve his long term goal of bringing back manufacturing to the US?
Or will the impact of the tariff's, on China, get the US population upset enough for Trump to cave to China?

fair points and not a lot different than Hanoi Jane's effect on the War. What may be a bit different is that in Beijing and such... the people are more used to a better lifestyle than they used to have. Ultimately, can other countries replace China's supplies for the most part and just how long it would take to move some manufacturing back to the states. Noting big is ever easy and if it were...everyone would do it!

 

[Ihaveswag29]

You have some points...especially since a victory dance on the market is premature. I'm guessing that your family member sells a lot of things from China? If at the long term he buys and sells USA product he will still be competing against business going down the same river. He may no longer have the price difference, but those that have bought from him in the past and see his prices similar may still buy from him. Naturally his margin has decreased, but his competition has a similar margin and so now location and service may be more important..."IF" your family member sells China products. Off the top of my head I'm unsure how much grain China buys from the USA that they can get elsewhere...because they do want to eat!

He manufactures in China because it is way too expensive to manufacture in the United States and still make money for the products he sells. U.S. manufacturing is pretty expensive believe it or not, particularly because we have to pay our workers a lot more. If you add that to the amount Amazon takes for using their platform to sell, it's just really tough for a small business. It's a newer business that can't keep up with these changes, so probably won't be able to last through the turmoil to obtain any benefits Trump is promising. But, again, I think his business may just be one that Trump thinks America shouldn't have, so maybe it's good.

 

[Quix0te]

Also, the only reason it has gone up is because Trump partially paused the tariffs, not because of any accomplished victory with them. If he keeps them going in 90 days, it’ll just keep dropping.

We have already had over 70 nations reach out to the US over tariff negotiations. The victory has already occurred. Trump has already won. Obviously the US will work out an acceptable trade plan with each of these nations long before the 90-day deadline. Nonetheless, the haters with TDS will continue to piss and moan and poop rings around themselves, just as they did following the nothingburger security leak to the editor of The Atlantic.

Will Trump Negotiate Tariffs? 90-Day Pause Issued As These Countries Ask To Bargain

Trump said he decided to pause the tariffs after more than 75 countries had reached out about negotiating.

www.forbes.com

 

[Ihaveswag29]

We have already had over 70 nations reach out to the US over tariff negotiations. The victory has already occurred. Trump has already won. Obviously the US will work out an acceptable trade plan with each of these nations long before the 90-day deadline. Nonetheless, the haters with TDS will continue to piss and moan and poop rings around themselves, just as they did following the nothingburger security leak to the editor of The Atlantic.

Will Trump Negotiate Tariffs? 90-Day Pause Issued As These Countries Ask To Bargain

Trump said he decided to pause the tariffs after more than 75 countries had reached out about negotiating.

www.forbes.com

Countries reaching out to the US is not a victory and affects Americans in no way. If they make changes, which could happen, that would be a result.

 

[BB62]

We have already had over 70 nations reach out to the US over tariff negotiations. The victory has already occurred. Trump has already won. Obviously the US will work out an acceptable trade plan with each of these nations long before the 90-day deadline. Nonetheless, the haters with TDS will continue to piss and moan and poop rings around themselves, just as they did following the nothingburger security leak to the editor of The Atlantic.

Will Trump Negotiate Tariffs? 90-Day Pause Issued As These Countries Ask To Bargain

Trump said he decided to pause the tariffs after more than 75 countries had reached out about negotiating.

www.forbes.com

The admin that put on huge tariffs and said they weren't for negotiation purposes then takes them off and tells you 70 nations are willing to negotiate. Why would you not believe what they say? Lol

The bond market took a major turn. That's what cause trump to change direction again. That and all his billionaire buddies calling him to complain.

The victory has occurred ROFL.

 

[tjreese]

He manufactures in China because it is way too expensive to manufacture in the United States and still make money for the products he sells. U.S. manufacturing is pretty expensive believe it or not, particularly because we have to pay our workers a lot more. If you add that to the amount Amazon takes for using their platform to sell, it's just really tough for a small business. It's a newer business that can't keep up with these changes, so probably won't be able to last through the turmoil to obtain any benefits Trump is promising. But, again, I think his business may just be one that Trump thinks America shouldn't have, so maybe it's good.

AS of today I personally believe China eventually comes to the table . China needs the USA market more than the USA market needs China. If they negotiate into a deal Trump considers okay, then "he" (family member) may still be able to produce in China. If Mexico comes to the table, the labor rate there is low as well and there is even less communication issues. Shipping times are reduced for less inventory and a potential smaller warranty window if a concern due to time. I recall the Mexicans being very concerned about losing product to China. I can't tell you the criteria for tariff calculations today, but Mexico facilities many times had a small site just across the border into the USA where they might apply a label or final inspection and by doing this they were able to list the USA site as the shipping point and any advantages associated.

 

[bonefish1]

He manufactures in China because it is way too expensive to manufacture in the United States and still make money for the products he sells. U.S. manufacturing is pretty expensive believe it or not, particularly because we have to pay our workers a lot more. If you add that to the amount Amazon takes for using their platform to sell, it's just really tough for a small business. It's a newer business that can't keep up with these changes, so probably won't be able to last through the turmoil to obtain any benefits Trump is promising. But, again, I think his business may just be one that Trump thinks America shouldn't have, so maybe it's good.

So, if that's the case, shouldn't he be mad at China for not giving the US a fair trade playing field? Isn't that what Trumps asking for?

I'll admit, I'm no expert on international trade relations, but does it seem fair to the US is a country like China not only limits our ability for American companies to sell goods there, but also imposes tariffs higher on US goods than the US puts on Chinese goods?

 

[bonefish1]

Countries reaching out to the US is not a victory and affects Americans in no way. If they make changes, which could happen, that would be a result.

Well, these things don't magically happen. It has to start somewhere and that somewhere is Trump.

 

[Riveting-]

So, if that's the case, shouldn't he be mad at China for not giving the US a fair trade playing field? Isn't that what Trumps asking for?

I'll admit, I'm no expert on international trade relations, but does it seem fair to the US is a country like China not only limits our ability for American companies to sell goods there, but also imposes tariffs higher on US goods than the US puts on Chinese goods?

And don't forget the slave and child labor.

 

[bonefish1]

AS of today I personally believe China eventually comes to the table . China needs the USA market more than the USA market needs China. If they negotiate into a deal Trump considers okay, then "he" (family member) may still be able to produce in China. If Mexico comes to the table, the labor rate there is low as well and there is even less communication issues. Shipping times are reduced for less inventory and a potential smaller warranty window if a concern due to time. I recall the Mexicans being very concerned about losing product to China. I can't tell you the criteria for tariff calculations today, but Mexico facilities many times had a small site just across the border into the USA where they might apply a label or final inspection and by doing this they were able to list the USA site as the shipping point and any advantages associated.

I think if China wants to try an play hard ball, India will benefit.

 

[Riveting-]

He manufactures in China because it is way too expensive to manufacture in the United States and still make money for the products he sells. U.S. manufacturing is pretty expensive believe it or not, particularly because we have to pay our workers a lot more. If you add that to the amount Amazon takes for using their platform to sell, it's just really tough for a small business. It's a newer business that can't keep up with these changes, so probably won't be able to last through the turmoil to obtain any benefits Trump is promising. But, again, I think his business may just be one that Trump thinks America shouldn't have, so maybe it's good.

Has he ensured his product is not made with slave and child labor, and in safe conditions?

 

[BoilerJS]

I think if China wants to try an play hard ball, India will benefit.

China delivers their exports to India and pays a small fee.
India delivers the goods to the U.S. with a small tariff.
We will know that's Chinas plan if India negotiates a lot lower tariff than they currently have. lol

 

[Katscratch]

Has he ensured his product is not made with slave and child labor, and in safe conditions?

That's a noble goal. How do you propose that be accomplished?

 

[Riveting-]

That's a noble goal. How do you propose that be accomplished?

Research the contractor(s) being used.

Call the US embassy or nearest consulate, and/or the American Commerce Club of Beijing, Shanghai or wherever.

Find and contact organizations that monitor such crimes.

Visit the production site unannounced.

Ideally, this would be done before starting production - with follow ups from time to time.

 

[tjreese]

I think if China wants to try an play hard ball, India will benefit.

I don't know enough about India to have an idea, but if Mexico has fair trade I could see product going back to Mexico

 

[tjreese]

Research the contractor(s) being used.

Call the US embassy or nearest consulate, and/or the American Commerce Club of Beijing, Shanghai or wherever.

Find and contact organizations that monitor such crimes.

Visit the production site unannounced.

Ideally, this would be done before starting production - with follow ups from time to time.

So we had what was called "training" although I think you train dogs and educate people on the very subject at least once a year with some parts carried over into other training. The consulate was an area of contact. I wish I could remember all but when Delphi was split and I was pulled over into GM...unlike Delphi my travel was limited to the states and so I used "local" people to do what I needed done in China and elsewhere. I can say though that it is at least in the public a concern for GM

 

[Riveting-]

So we had what was called "training" although I think you train dogs and educate people on the very subject at least once a year with some parts carried over into other training. The consulate was an area of contact. I wish I could remember all but when Delphi was split and I was pulled over into GM...unlike Delphi my travel was limited to the states and so I used "local" people to do what I needed done in China and elsewhere. I can say though that it is at least in the public a concern for GM

Remember the suicide nets to stop workers from jumping to their deaths at Apple's big contractor, Foxconn?

 

[tjreese]

Remember the suicide nets to stop workers from jumping to their deaths at Apple's big contractor, Foxconn?

I know of two suicides in Delco. One person I knew went into the crawl space and slit his wrists...no previous signs of trouble. The other an Asian that hung himself over the weekend. I think he was having some trouble with a project he was on.

 

[Katscratch]

Research the contractor(s) being used.

Call the US embassy or nearest consulate, and/or the American Commerce Club of Beijing, Shanghai or wherever.

Find and contact organizations that monitor such crimes.

Visit the production site unannounced.

Ideally, this would be done before starting production - with follow ups from time to time.

Curious what your newly discovered criticism of the Trump Administration will consist of now that we have eliminated all tariffs on the primary factory purveyors of your despised Chinese tech child and slave labor?

FWIW, we now have larger tariffs on Canadian timber than on China tech. Must be child and slave labor Canadian lumberjacks:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/12/trump-exempts-phones-computers-chips-tariffs-apple-dell.html

 

[Riveting-]

Curious what your newly discovered criticism of the Trump Administration will consist of now that we have eliminated all tariffs on the primary factory purveyors of your despised Chinese tech child and slave labor?

FWIW, we now have larger tariffs on Canadian timber than on China tech. Must be child and slave labor Canadian lumberjacks:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/12/trump-exempts-phones-computers-chips-tariffs-apple-dell.html

Trump is trying to keep Apple happy.

Apple Warns China Tariffs Could Negatively Impact Child Slave Employment Opportunities

CUPERTINO, CA — Apple CEO Tim Cook warned today that heavy tariffs on Chinese imports could have a severe negative effect on employment opportunities for child slaves.

babylonbee.com

 

[bonefish1]

Bob, I’m generally curious: have you personally participated in any of the recent protests?

 

[BB62]

Bob, I’m generally curious: have you personally participated in any of the recent protests?

Nope.

 

[Riveting-]

Curious what your newly discovered criticism of the Trump Administration will consist of now that we have eliminated all tariffs on the primary factory purveyors of your despised Chinese tech child and slave labor?

FWIW, we now have larger tariffs on Canadian timber than on China tech. Must be child and slave labor Canadian lumberjacks:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/12/trump-exempts-phones-computers-chips-tariffs-apple-dell.html

I had not heard that news and did not read the link, but now that I have, Trump has reason to like Apple so maybe that is it. Just a guess.

Apple will spend more than $500 billion in the U.S. over the next four years

Apple today announced plans to spend and invest more than $500 billion in the U.S. over the next four years.

www.apple.com

 

[RDUBoiler]

What I see is mostly about 10 fat, blue haired wart hogs yelling incoherently about facism, nazis, Russia, billionaires and Tesla. Their TDS has been in effect since 2016.

There were at least 50,000 of us in Boston. Up to 5 million nationally.

 

[RDUBoiler]

The iron curtain came down 36 years ago. I was in West Germany when it happened. My CO liked to joke "The only way the Russian Army is coming through the Fulda Gap is if we send some buses to East Berlin, load up the Russian troops and bring them to Munich for Octoberfest."

Russia's not Communist anymore, but they are an authoritarian kleptocracy and Trump is aligning against them. They invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine has the rigt to self-defense. We were correct to provide them with support (and correct not to put our troops on the ground).

 

[Quix0te]

Russia's not Communist anymore, but they are an authoritarian kleptocracy and Trump is aligning against them. They invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine has the rigt to self-defense. We were correct to provide them with support (and correct not to put our troops on the ground).

Russia invaded Ukraine because half-a-brain Biden and Ukraine signed a Charter on Strategic Partnership, which allowed Ukraine to pursue membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. For decades, the US had promised Russia that there would be no further eastward expansion of NATO.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cause-ukraine-war-robert-service-moscow-putin-lenin-stalin-history-communism-invasion-kgb-fsb-11646413200?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[Riveting-]

Russia's not Communist anymore, but they are an authoritarian kleptocracy and Trump is aligning against them. They invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine has the rigt to self-defense. We were correct to provide them with support (and correct not to put our troops on the ground).

But were we correct not to try to prevent the invasion of Ukraine by declaring we do not support Ukraine entry into NATO?

I think it was a disastrous mistake of vast incompetence - or else one of vast corruption driven by the US armaments industries.

 

[Boiler Buck]

There were at least 50,000 of us in Boston. Up to 5 million nationally.

And you accomplished what exactly??

 

[Quix0te]

And you accomplished what exactly??

I take the Boston Globe. There was much huffing and puffing and panties up in a wad and pissing and moaning and shitting of rings around themselves. Then they all went home.

 

[Riveting-]

I take the Boston Globe. There was much huffing and puffing and panties up in a wad and pissing and moaning and shitting of rings around themselves. Then they all went home.

True, but they felt good about themselves and their virtue signaling, which was the whole point.

 

[Boiler Buck]

They have been going on for awhile but are now starting to take hold. There's more to come.

Trump isn't going to stand for it. That is, if he can actually understand what's going on.........or we can understand him.

View embedded media

Are the protests "taking hold". LOL

Just what are they accomplishing?

Meaningless parades of idiots that if they tripled in size would still be ridiculous..... guess they do show employers of serious companies who NOT to hire.
So there's that.

 

[Ihaveswag29]

I do unfortunately agree that protests are pretty dumb and won't accomplish much. That being said, Trump did say people were getting "yippy," and then partially paused his tariffs. So he heard someone somewhere that mattered that caused a change in policy.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I do unfortunately agree that protests are pretty dumb and won't accomplish much. That being said, Trump did say people were getting "yippy," and then partially paused his tariffs. So he heard someone somewhere that mattered that caused a change in policy.

Yes, "heard someone"......those people are called his cabinet serving the exact purpose they are supposed to......

 

[BB62]

Are the protests "taking hold". LOL

Just what are they accomplishing?

Meaningless parades of idiots that if they tripled in size would still be ridiculous..... guess they do show employers of serious companies who NOT to hire.
So there's that.

Nationwide next weekend. Check it out.

What do the protests accomplish? You mean like trump resigning or changing policy? Of course not. They aren't trying to stop the transfer of power in an election or anything.

Are you familiar with the history of protests in the country? They all have to start somewhere.........and aren't big at the beginning. If the cause is popular and the reasons for the protest continue, they tend to grow.

It's called freedom of speech. You think companies shouldn't hire people who participate in peaceful protests?

 

[Ihaveswag29]

Yes, "heard someone"......those people are called his cabinet serving the exact purpose they are supposed to......

Right, who are only saying something because their constituents are not happy.. I'd say protests are a good way to show that.

 

[Quix0te]

Nationwide next weekend. Check it out.

What do the protests accomplish? You mean like trump resigning or changing policy? Of course not. They aren't trying to stop the transfer of power in an election or anything.

Are you familiar with the history of protests in the country? They all have to start somewhere.........and aren't big at the beginning. If the cause is popular and the reasons for the protest continue, they tend to grow.

It's called freedom of speech. You think companies shouldn't hire people who participate in peaceful protests?

The issue is, what are they protesting? Stopping the illegals from pouring in? Banning manfreaks from women's sports? Stopping Iran from getting nukes?