The "Law and order" president just freed his criminal pal.

[BuilderBob6]

Stone's sentence commuted.

He does know where the bodies are buried so.......

Trump probably thinks this helps his re-election chances because...........deep state.

Keep digging the hole.

 

[mk_peters]

LOL. Holy smokes.

 

[Bill4411]

Stone's sentence commuted.

He does know where the bodies are buried so.......

Trump probably thinks this helps his re-election chances because...........deep state.

Keep digging the hole.

Corrupt. Corrupt. Corrupt.

 

[mk_peters]

This sounds like a case of true corruption to me. @PA Boilermakers, what say you, true corruption?

 

[70boiler]

This sounds like a case of true corruption to me. @PA Boilermakers, what say you, true corruption?

My guess - either
Deflection or

 

[mk_peters]

My guess - either
Deflection or

View embedded media

I’ll be damned. Who knew that the sound of true corruption was crickets?

 

[PurdueFan1]

Complete and utter horseshit. And Lindsey Graham can go straight to hell for pushing it. Fukk them all.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Yeah, I don't think there is any way to really spin this one. If this doesn't meet the definition of "corruption" or "abuse of power" to you, then nothing ever will.

 

[kescwi]

Banana Republic of America! How can any honest person call themselves Republican anymore? That once proud party, my first time voting for POTUS was for Regan and his second term. The party of law and order my ass, they could claim that when they had had enough of Nixon and acted, but now they show how hollowed out they have become kissing the ass of a con man from Queens.

 

[BuilderBob6]

In the end, this probably won't move any needles. I don't believe there are too many people left that aren't in one camp or the other. The trumpers will find some illogical justification for it......or just totally ignore it like they do with so many other things Trump does.......things they know are wrong but refuse to admit to themselves.

Trump will hit some new lows in approval in the next couple months. There's no good news to be found on the horizon. Looks like Covid is here to stay for awhile and the economy is not going to rebound much as long as it is. Biden will keep laying low and taking his precision shots. Trump will continue to revert to the 2016 playbook, the only one he knows. He may have to get himself a wheelchair if he keeps shooting himself in the foot.

If his numbers don't improve by Labor day, expect to see some senators up for re-election start to distance themselves from him........already seeing few signs of it. That's when he will really start to lose it.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Trump is freeing a co-conspirator. Stone covered up for Trump. What was on Stone and trump's mind? Why couldn't Trump have just waited until the day after the election?
Note what Stone said below. Slide rule not required.

 

[70boiler]

The inherent disconnect is actually very simple. All of the traditional "Law and Order" people must either say the system is suspect and doesn't work or that the Administration is overreaching, for whatever reason.
System? Yes.
Or
System? No.
It actually is that straightforward.
And I have little doubt where the regular posters on here will shake out.
I full well expect to be saddened over this debacle.

 

[70boiler]

Well, let's see...the Administration has released and replaced 1) US Attorney in DC, then 2) the Southern District of New York, and today 3) the Eastern District of New York, but today without the normal upward move for the primary assistant.
Whatever ...
Rule of Law? Sure...

 

[BuilderBob6]

Well, let's see...the Administration has released and replaced 1) US Attorney in DC, then 2) the Southern District of New York, and today 3) the Eastern District of New York, but today without the normal upward move for the primary assistant.
Whatever ...
Rule of Law? Sure...

With the help of Barr and the feckless senate republicans, Trump has managed to dismember the justice system, piece by piece, that would hold him accountable for his actions.

When we finally get this POS out of office we have to change some rules so that this can never happen again.

 

[indy35]

A good reminder of everything.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Stone did not want a pardon, he wanted a commutation and surprise, he got a commutation. Stone gave himself a lot of credit and admitted his guilt when he said “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.” This administration makes the Mafia look saintly.

 

[mk_peters]

Stone did not want a pardon, he wanted a commutation and surprise, he got a commutation. Stone gave himself a lot of credit and admitted his guilt when he said “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.” This administration makes the Mafia look saintly.

And most importantly, he retains his 5th Amendment rights. Lucky break for everyone.

 

[Bill4411]

And most importantly, he retains his 5th Amendment rights. Lucky break for everyone.

Stone supposedly is asking for a re-trial..like that is going to happen so now with commutation if he gets called to testify at a grand jury hearing or the like he can still exert his 5th amendment right and continue to shelter Trump. If Stone was pardoned he couldn't exert his 5th amendment right. We now live in the world of Roy Cohn who was a great mob attorney among other things.

 

[70boiler]

And most importantly, he retains his 5th Amendment rights. Lucky break for everyone.

Stone supposedly is asking for a re-trial..like that is going to happen so now with commutation if he gets called to testify at a grand jury hearing or the like he can still exert his 5th amendment right and continue to shelter Trump. If Stone was pardoned he couldn't exert his 5th amendment right. We now live in the world of Roy Cohn who was a great mob attorney among other things.

The situation presents some interesting legal considerations.
As to 5th Amendment protections - that is a fairly common situation. If a prosecutor wants a witness's testimony or statements for the purpose of investing or prosecuting others, the proposed witness is given "use immunity" which means anything they divulge in their testimony cannot be used in a proceeding against them, EXCEPT if they perjure themselves.
As to commutation vs. pardon - Stone is appealing his case. If for some reason he should be successful and the case remanded for a retrial, since that reversal and remand vitiates and removes the earlier sentence. Then if convicted upon retrial, there is a legitimate argument the Stone is once again susceptible to a lengthy prison sentence. There was legally no earlier sentence which was commuted. As the saying goes "Be careful what you wish for..."

 

[Bethboilerfan]

The situation presents some interesting legal considerations.
As to 5th Amendment protections - that is a fairly common situation. If a prosecutor wants a witness's testimony or statements for the purpose of investing or prosecuting others, the proposed witness is given "use immunity" which means anything they divulge in their testimony cannot be used in a proceeding against them, EXCEPT if they perjure themselves.
As to commutation vs. pardon - Stone is appealing his case. If for some reason he should be successful and the case remanded for a retrial, since that reversal and remand vitiates and removes the earlier sentence. Then if convicted upon retrial, there is a legitimate argument the Stone is once again susceptible to a lengthy prison sentence. There was legally no earlier sentence which was commuted. As the saying goes "Be careful what you wish for..."

That is a bit of good news!

 

[70boiler]

 

[Bill4411]

View embedded media

Good for Mitt!

 

[BuilderBob6]

How long are these people going to keep denying the obvious?

 

[TMan92]

So let's recap. A Lt. Colonel, decorated war veteran and Purple Heart recipient gets forced to resign for testifying and telling the truth, and a guy that is convicted by a jury for lying to Congress, witness tampering, obstruction and other things, is scott free. We make Banana Republics look good. Law and Order!!!

 

[SKYDOG]

How long are these people going to keep denying the obvious?

View embedded media

So now it’s white power symbol and I used it many times before to mean ok. So now it doesn’t mean ok?

 

[70boiler]

So now it’s white power symbol and I used it many times before to mean ok. So now it doesn’t mean ok?

Yes, it really is and as the following artcle indicates, the symbol, like most things in lfe, are contextual..
The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of
Hate : NPR Link

EDIT:
It's the same internationally... some places are different from others... get out of the bubble some - LINK

 

[BuilderBob6]

So now it’s white power symbol and I used it many times before to mean ok. So now it doesn’t mean ok?

I'm not the authority on what it means. I do know when white nationalists and neo Nazis starting using the gesture it changed the meaning for a lot of people.

I think it started on 4 Chan as a trolling thing but then the racists started using it.

Lol. Do you think Stone sitting with the proud boys........all by itself.......means nothing? They are probably doing it as a joke, doesn't take away from the significance.

 

[SKYDOG]

Unbelievable! I’m a golfer, so if I use white golf balls is that racist? There seems to be no end to this crap. I’m an old guy and the world has passed me by.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

So now it’s white power symbol and I used it many times before to mean ok. So now it doesn’t mean ok?

Apparently not. I just learned that also. I also learned that it is not acceptable to ask where a person is from.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Unbelievable! I’m a golfer, so if I use white golf balls is that racist? There seems to be no end to this crap. I’m an old guy and the world has passed me by.

By all means, ignore the significance of the gesture and reply with a ridiculous comparison.

I'm sorry the world hasn't come to a complete halt so you can feel secure.....and the kids won't stay off your lawn.

 

[SKYDOG]

By all means, ignore the significance of the gesture and reply with a ridiculous comparison.

I'm sorry the world hasn't come to a complete halt so you can feel secure.....and the kids won't stay off your lawn.

It’s no more of a significance gesture in reality to the example I gave. They are both ridiculous.

 

[70boiler]

Unbelievable! I’m a golfer, so if I use white golf balls is that racist? There seems to be no end to this crap. I’m an old guy and the world has passed me by.

It’s no more of a significance gesture in reality to the example I gave. They are both ridiculous.

So many things that are so innocuous to many, particularly we older group, can have extraordinary meaning.
For well over 25 years I have dealt with the use of gang signs, clothes, colors, styles and whatever where the police testify (and almost universally correctly) that various things that most people wouldn't think twice about are very significant.
For instance, when I buy work handkerchiefs ( i.e. bandana size) whether I buy blue or red is always decided by "What's on sale?" However that choice can be deadly in Los Angeles where the red shows allegiance to Bloods and blue allegiance to the Crips and the result of wrongful attire is deadly at times.
Face value may be considerably less than no value in today's world.

 

[SKYDOG]

So many things that are so innocuous to many, particularly we older group, can have extraordinary meaning.
For well over 25 years I have dealt with the use of gang signs, clothes, colors, styles and whatever where the police testify (and almost universally correctly) that various things that most people wouldn't think twice about are very significant.
For instance, when I buy work handkerchiefs ( i.e. bandana size) whether I buy blue or red is always decided by "What's on sale?" However that choice can be deadly in Los Angeles where the red shows allegiance to Bloods and blue allegiance to the Crips and the result of wrongful attire is deadly at times.
Face value may be considerably less than no value in today's world.

That’s a very good example you provided. I appreciate your response. For me it’s just hard to justify that a universally ok gesture, which meant ok for hundreds of years, has now been changed to mean something else. Many people are unaware of this change. This particular example should still mean ok as it has for centuries. It was never meant or intended to offend anyone. It’s only offensive to the people selling this symbol to mean something it was never intended to be.

 

[BuilderBob6]

It’s no more of a significance gesture in reality to the example I gave. They are both ridiculous.

So even though the gesture is used by white nationalist groups, it's not significant. You didn't know about it....but now that you know what it means.......it still doesn't change how you view the gesture. Just trying to navigate around your golf ball deflection here.

 

[70boiler]

That’s a very good example you provided. I appreciate your response. For me it’s just hard to justify that a universally ok gesture, which meant ok for hundreds of years, has now been changed to mean something else. Many people are unaware of this change. This particular example should still mean ok as it has for centuries. It was never meant or intended to offend anyone. It’s only offensive to the people selling this symbol to mean something it was never intended to be.

I understand your surprise.
Perhaps a further clarification can really set the idea. Several years ago I was talking to a gang officer who was explaining about a shooting. A guy who had no gang involvement was in a neighborhood that was in a Gangster Disciples area. He was outside a store or gas station ( I don't really recall all of the specifics) and was yelled to by someone. The call out was to the effect of "What's up?" The person replied with a wave, but had kept his thumb near his palm. The other person asked put forward a second call out and the guy again responded with the wave. The resulting gun fire was attributed to the the mistaken impression by a Gangster Disciple that upon calling on the guy to identify himself his response of 4 four visible fingers was a 4 Corner Hustler sign... essentially meaning "F off... whatcha got?"
I looked again at the Stone pic and assuming the people with him actually are Proud Boys, I would have no question as to what the sign was.
Context is everything and obviously is not a guarantee of accuracy.

 

[PA Boilermakers]

How long are these people going to keep denying the obvious?

View embedded media

A hand gesture that has meant ‘okay’ for centuries is now yet another sign of racism. Okay, whatever. I’m looking forward to seeing when a certain type of smile is deemed racist.

 

[SKYDOG]

So even though the gesture is used by white nationalist groups, it's not significant. You didn't know about it....but now that you know what it means.......it still doesn't change how you view the gesture. Just trying to navigate around your golf ball deflection here.

This gestures meaning is all new to me. I’m having a difficult time trying to sort it out. Meanwhile I have some little kids on my lawn that I need to yell at. Lol

 

[70boiler]

This gestures meaning is all new to me. I’m having a difficult time trying to sort it out. Meanwhile I have some little kids on my lawn that I need to yell at. Lol

Personally, I appreciate that you are bothering to try to sort through it...as opposed to simply disregarding it because it is inconsistent with some of your preferences and views. Kudos...

 

[PA Boilermakers]

I'm not the authority on what it means. I do know when white nationalists and neo Nazis starting using the gesture it changed the meaning for a lot of people.

I think it started on 4 Chan as a trolling thing but then the racists started using it.

Lol. Do you think Stone sitting with the proud boys........all by itself.......means nothing? They are probably doing it as a joke, doesn't take away from the significance.

From the New York Times -

How did it become connected to “white power”?

It started in early 2017 as a hoax. Anonymous users of 4chan, an anonymous and unrestricted online message board, began what they called “Operation O-KKK,” to see if they could trick the wider world — and especially, liberals and the mainstream media — into believing that the innocuous gesture was actually a clandestine symbol of white power.

“We must flood Twitter and other social media websites with spam, claiming that the OK hand signal is a symbol of white supremacy,” one of the users posted, going on to suggest that everyone involved create fake social media accounts “with basic white girl names” to propagate the notion as widely as possible.

The 4chan hoax succeeded all too well and ceased being a hoax: Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klansmen and other white nationalists began using the gesture in public to signal their presence and to spot potential sympathisers and recruits. For them, the letters formed by the hand were not O and K, but W and P, for “white power”.

What’s next? Smiling? Waving? Thumbs up?

 

[BuilderBob6]

From the New York Times -

How did it become connected to “white power”?

It started in early 2017 as a hoax. Anonymous users of 4chan, an anonymous and unrestricted online message board, began what they called “Operation O-KKK,” to see if they could trick the wider world — and especially, liberals and the mainstream media — into believing that the innocuous gesture was actually a clandestine symbol of white power.

“We must flood Twitter and other social media websites with spam, claiming that the OK hand signal is a symbol of white supremacy,” one of the users posted, going on to suggest that everyone involved create fake social media accounts “with basic white girl names” to propagate the notion as widely as possible.

The 4chan hoax succeeded all too well and ceased being a hoax: Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klansmen and other white nationalists began using the gesture in public to signal their presence and to spot potential sympathisers and recruits. For them, the letters formed by the hand were not O and K, but W and P, for “white power”.

What’s next? Smiling? Waving? Thumbs up?

Your last paragraph says it all. Whats the problem?

Does not using the gesture somehow infringe on your freedoms? Is it a major inconvenience for you to refrain from using it? This wasn't a liberal highjacking of an all American hand gesture.......so you shouldn't be upset.......they did nothing wrong here. This was white nationalists........its ok for you to blame them for this assault on the American way of life.