I've said it before. The dude works his ass off, but he's not the superstar that everyone is making him out to be. With the game on the line, I don't feel comfortable with the ball in his hands. Comparing him to the Big Dog is a joke. Couple side notes... Painter can't play call worth a $hit and let's hope VE's back gets better soon. It's showing.
Swanigan/Game thoughts
- Thread starter Purduefan33
- Start date
I may be in a minority, but I actually think the strength of our offense is the collective play of our guards. CS is a load and a great rebounder, but he is not the offensive strength of this team. He and Haas both need to learn to pass when double teamed and take care of the ball. Post players should never have more turnovers than guards.
He definitely did a" rinse and repeat" down the stretch of this game............identical to the Iowa game! Do need some of the other players to step up and tell his azz to dump the ball back out if the shot isn't there...........
So is PJ. Couldn't stay with Watson to save his life.
Cline has major problems staying with McVeigh in the first half.
Anytime you give up 83 there bound to be multiple defensive problems.
Well, Cline, Mathias, and Thompson are all of average foot-speed for guards on a high-major DI team so in order to minimize their deficiencies, the coaching staff makes sure they play man-to-man D every single possession. That way, if an opposing guard or wing is naturally quicker or more athletic than they are, they'll have a better chance of getting past them and scoring, getting an assist, or just getting the ball moved around until they find an open teammate.
What the coaching staff makes sure not to do, in fear of exposing those deficiencies, is play any kind of zone defenses. Having those guards of average foot-speed firmly planted in a specific area of the halfcourt BUT defending that area aggressively, would surely make them much, much more susceptible to being beaten off of the dribble or scored on then if they were in their man D.
What the coaching staff makes sure not to do, in fear of exposing those deficiencies, is play any kind of zone defenses. Having those guards of average foot-speed firmly planted in a specific area of the halfcourt BUT defending that area aggressively, would surely make them much, much more susceptible to being beaten off of the dribble or scored on then if they were in their man D.
I agree. I am not sure who he could defend in the NBA. Would be hard for him to guard an athletic 3, a big, athletic 4 or 5 will give him fits too.
Tc3 was talking about how NEB defended against Biggie's offensive moves - 3 on 1. Your comment is some bull spit about who Biggie might defend against in the NBA. Your comment sounds like you are agreeing with TC3, but it is really is unrelated to TC3's note, and reads like you are trolling. Is that your intention?
Mathboy: I don't think that is what TC was referring to at all. He was talking about NEB going at CS because he is vulnerable on defense (not good at it). Neb took advantage of that several times and was able to score without much resistance. At least that's how I read his comment.
While I agree that jumping to the NBA discussion isn't relevant to this discussion, it is fair to say that with the struggles he has defending at this level it is hard to picture him doing better at it against even better players.
Good lord...Follow closely. Everyone talks about how he is leaving at end of the year. He is not good defensively now. Who will he guard in NBA? NEB went right at him and exposed him. So...I do agree with TC3, and I added an observation. Thats trolling???? Not even close.
In fairness to Biggie, he was in foul trouble down the stretch, and may have been instructed to play less aggressively at that end of the floor. Is he a great defender? No, but let's not make too much of his defense in the last 5 minutes yesterday.
Do people still not realize that Biggie is being instructed not to play aggressively on defense? The coaching staff's approach, especially on the road, is primarily to keep him out of foul trouble. You seriously don't think he could/would have challenged Nebraska's post players more given the green light? Three of his four fouls yesterday were with him simply holding his ground with hands straight up and the Nebraska player moving into his space. Can you imagine how quickly he would be on the bench with foul trouble had he been more aggressive? And then what? Grady Eifert? Try to get 30-35 minutes out of Haas? Play Cline at the 4 and VE at the 5? Good luck with that! Some of the potential lineups get horrendous when you have to put Biggie on the bench for any extended amount of time. And you guys think the defense is bad with him in there..
Then my conclusion is that this is a very flawed team. Players with good skills at shooting, passing, and rebounding most of the time. But if our bigs are being told not to play tough D, then in today's game, I don't see how we can be competitive against good teams. Nice likeable players, that are generally fun to watch on offense most of the time.
As far as Biggie. His biggest improvements from last year have been more consistent shooting, usually better passing, more fit and able to run the floor and play more minutes, and even better rebounding. However, he still needs to improve on D passing out of double teams, and limiting turnovers. Big improvement from year one to year two, but not there yet.
The question is, if NBA teams draft on potential, as is often said, does a team pick Biggie and think they can work with him to improve or will they want him to improve in college first? If the latter, how will he improve his D if he is being told not to be aggressive to D? Tough line to walk. The other issue, turnovers, especially when double teamed, I think can be improved.
Yes. Front court depth was a concern from day 1 with this team. I shake my head every time people on TV talk about our massive front line. Was true last year with AJ, IH, and CS. Could have been true again this year if JT was healthy.
I certainly think our defense could be better even with the depth limitations, but I can't put much of that on Biggie when he is obviously playing to stay on the floor and we're often choosing not to double team the post.
What games are you guys watching? Haas should be starting (to get the tip) and playing a minimum of 25 minutes per game. When Haas is in, their big men can't shoot. The announcers praised the Neb centers who did not score against Haas. Haas comes up high on the pick and roll enabling the defender being picked to fight through. Caleb has improved his D greatly and is able to defend the center rolling to the goal, as well as keep up with his man. This could be a weakness if the player he is defending is a good 3 pt. shooter and if so Caleb needs to switch to another, but his footwork on D is much better.
On O, Caleb has done a fine job finding Haas low. Both have greatly improved this year passing out of double teams. In the last game, Caleb had trouble going one on one against a center with a double coming. He would have done much better posting against a forward while the center guarded Haas.
BTW, there was one play where Caleb was doubled and bodied up by two op and the ref called walking. IMO, the refs were giving everything close to Neb making for a more physical game and thus demanding more so the presence of Haas.
On O, Caleb has done a fine job finding Haas low. Both have greatly improved this year passing out of double teams. In the last game, Caleb had trouble going one on one against a center with a double coming. He would have done much better posting against a forward while the center guarded Haas.
BTW, there was one play where Caleb was doubled and bodied up by two op and the ref called walking. IMO, the refs were giving everything close to Neb making for a more physical game and thus demanding more so the presence of Haas.
If you look at their soph. years & don't think they are comparable... then you must not have watched Big Dog. Great player that could take over a game, but turned the ball over to much. Biggie would be a man among boys if he comes back next year, just like Glenn was.
Haas need to learn how to pass out of a double team, learn his limitations when shooting more than six feet from the basket and limit his turnovers. When he learns these three things, he will be an excellent player at the college level. He gets screwed EVERY game by the officiating.
Good Lord, now you guys are hacking on Swanigan too? He's a POTY candidate for crying out loud! SMH
It would be great if Haas also learned how to grab a defensive board and dribble down court leading a fast break. However, last game he would have had 22 pts and 10 boards and would have curtailed Neb inside if he played 25 minutes. If he had played longer, I also think he would have hit Dakota and PJ for wide open 3's out of the double team like in the last game against MSU.
I am not saying Haas is perfect, but he is arguably the 2nd to 4th best player on the team. And if we expect to get to the final 8, Haas has to play a minimum of 25 minutes.
BTW, I think Haas makes good hand offs and sets good picks away from the basket. I can recall only 1 offensive foul and zero bad hand offs. Watch his picks on out of bound plays. He does pick up turnovers on his passes and needs to learn to fake, which comes with more playing time. He also gets picked, but if he swings his elbows to prevent, the refs will get him every time. His spin moves show good athleticism, but he gets called on them too much. Again, more playing time would help this.
I am not saying Haas is perfect, but he is arguably the 2nd to 4th best player on the team. And if we expect to get to the final 8, Haas has to play a minimum of 25 minutes.
BTW, I think Haas makes good hand offs and sets good picks away from the basket. I can recall only 1 offensive foul and zero bad hand offs. Watch his picks on out of bound plays. He does pick up turnovers on his passes and needs to learn to fake, which comes with more playing time. He also gets picked, but if he swings his elbows to prevent, the refs will get him every time. His spin moves show good athleticism, but he gets called on them too much. Again, more playing time would help this.
There's no denying watching try to be Michael Jordan last 3 possessions was a bit hard to watch. Pass that ball out !
Sorry, I probably didn't read that whole exchange correctly. I am under some heavy meds right now, and probably screwed it up. Please accept my apology.
The major issue with the last possessions was that Biggie got the ball and the other four just stood there and watched. It was painfully obvious after the first two to three dribbles that he wasn't going to be able to get a good look. The guards and wings should have been setting screens and moving on the weak side to get a cutter on the backside or for an open jump shot.
We lost games by taking outside shots instead of going to our bread and butter. The only person Caleb would pass to in this situation is Haas. If Haas was in, Caleb would go one on one and having the ball low against a forward he would score.
I admire Haas for not getting openly frustrated during games because he is getting fouled constantly. Part of the reason he doesn't get more rebounds is that it appears (to me at least) that the opponent post players hold his arms. Seems like he is often trying to board with one arm.
Every time I see that clip, I have to chuckle.....crazy exchange, but somehow it "fits" AJH.
biggie touched the ball 3 times to start the nw game and turned it over all 3 times. as soon as haas came in, the game changed and shots opened up. either start haas along side biggie or tell him to pass out of that double team. that was a frustrating start but happy ending last night
I am a big Matt Painter fan. I like the way he recruits. The Purdue player each seems to have his role and more importantly than that is that they look like good young men. I think they all have a good work ethic and they try their best to improve during the off season.
I like what I see is a good game plan that the players follow. This year, I am even more impressed with how Matt has made adjustments at halftime. Excellent! The one thing that most posters have overlooked is how we had a deer in the headlight look when teams pressed us. This has seldom happened this year and Matt deserves the credit.
My only criticism these past 2 years is that I think Haas needs more minutes. Last year, my case was very controversial as I thought Haas and AJ should have spent a minimum of 5 minutes together on the floor. I think AJ athletic enough to carry this out. Like this year, AJ gets the ball at the foul line to either dump to Haas, hit the 15 footer or drive to the basket. It also required AJ to play more man to man rather than sagging to the middle and again AJ was athletic enough to do it.
This year, I have been clamoring for Haas to play a minimum of 25 minutes per game. I would like to amend that to 30. I love the high low offense and the kick out to the wings for the 3 pointer. I also love how Caleb is playing good d complimenting either Haas' zone or when he steps up to spoil the pick.
I like what I see is a good game plan that the players follow. This year, I am even more impressed with how Matt has made adjustments at halftime. Excellent! The one thing that most posters have overlooked is how we had a deer in the headlight look when teams pressed us. This has seldom happened this year and Matt deserves the credit.
My only criticism these past 2 years is that I think Haas needs more minutes. Last year, my case was very controversial as I thought Haas and AJ should have spent a minimum of 5 minutes together on the floor. I think AJ athletic enough to carry this out. Like this year, AJ gets the ball at the foul line to either dump to Haas, hit the 15 footer or drive to the basket. It also required AJ to play more man to man rather than sagging to the middle and again AJ was athletic enough to do it.
This year, I have been clamoring for Haas to play a minimum of 25 minutes per game. I would like to amend that to 30. I love the high low offense and the kick out to the wings for the 3 pointer. I also love how Caleb is playing good d complimenting either Haas' zone or when he steps up to spoil the pick.
Painter has to be very careful with foul trouble with Swanigan and Haas, since they are the only big men on the team, since Taylor is out. I think that's an important factor limiting their minutes together.
I agree for early in the season. Purdue did not want to look like Goliath, where we over powered smaller teams. Refs are human and like Wilt said no one roots for Goliath. The refs are not use to a guy like Haas who is big and can move. Haas gets penalized against guys 6-10 250 who have quickness like Louisville did. They go through Haas to make a block and that is seldom called. However, the refs are starting to pick up reach ins now.
Haas has to start playing 30 minutes, so he is in shape for the play-offs. He has to learn to pace himself and not get so animated on the sidelines and conserve his strength. As the season progresses, the refs will start calling less and less fouls. However, when he picked up his third last night, IMO, they should have told Haas they would be coming at him to pick up his fourth and I would have sent him right back in. This would have been great experienced and we were far enough ahead.
The problems is he was still picking up the fouls down the stretch anyway. He has done well in understanding that it's wise for him to avoid early foul trouble BUT now it's time to learn that he has to play defense differently in the last 5 minutes of a game compared to how he plays in the first 5 minutes.
Given his body, I'm not sure Haas will ever be a 30 minute guy. It's a lot of effort to get 300 pounds up and down the court and have guys draped all over you. He played 24 minutes last night, which I think is about right if foul trouble allows it. I agree that getting 12-15 is not enough if for no other reason than for how many fouls he draws and how effective Purdue is from the free throw line.
Didn't see the beginning of the game (not because of the IU game, I was out), but from the sounds of it, Painter finally did what he needed to do more last year. Take Biggie out when he makes poor decisions. He hasn't learned by playing through his turnover mistakes. But we need him to cut down on them if we want to improve moving forward. If he gets pulled a few more times after turnovers, I think his decision making will improve.
He really got on Biggie at the end of the game of a really bad decision of shooting a three instead of moving the ball.
