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Some Positive Thoughts about Vince

May 18, 2017
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The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.


I am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.

 
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The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.


I am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.

I'm 1/4 of the way through it and am taking a break, but so far I love it. Is there a Cliff Notes version in print yet?
Just messin with ya. Agree. Nicely stated.
 
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The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.


I am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.

Fresh perspective! I love it!

I agree with the confidence thing. One of the problems with confidence is that the more you care, the more challenging it tends to be. I found that when I was young that it was really easy to shoot well in a pickup game that nobody really cared about, but get in a real game in a key situation and it's much tougher. You see this with free throw shooting when great shooters struggle at the line when trying to ice an important game. If the players didn't care as much, I believe that the free throws would be easier.
 
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The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.


I am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.

I'll add to this, that every time Vince would get criticized by an idiot on this board, I would point out that he is, without question, our best big game player. He's averaging around 20 and 10 in NCAA tournament games, and he carried us against IU in Bloomington last year.

I LOVE Biggie, but Vince would have been just as big a loss had he left, maybe bigger.

I guess the biggest compliment I can pay him is, my biggest concern right now is Painter finding someone in the 2018 class to replace him. It won't be easy.
 
I've always been a big Vince Edwards fan, from the day he committed to Purdue up to this present day. He might not end up being an NBA player but he's a damn good college player and he has a pro career ahead of him, should he choose to pursue it.
 
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I'll add to this, that every time Vince would get criticized by an idiot on this board, I would point out that he is, without question, our best big game player. He's averaging around 20 and 10 in NCAA tournament games, and he carried us against IU in Bloomington last year.

I LOVE Biggie, but Vince would have been just as big a loss had he left, maybe bigger.

I guess the biggest compliment I can pay him is, my biggest concern right now is Painter finding someone in the 2018 class to replace him. It won't be easy.

Vince may have taken a back seat to Biggie, but he still got some love. This is Vince's chance to shine. We shall see if he steps up.

Painter also has Wheeler. If Wheeler gains some weight and figures out how to shoot as well as Vince, Purdue won't miss a beat. Wheeler is similar size and more athletic. He played with a lot of talent and was pretty unselfish and very good at attacking the rim. If Wheeler progresses like most people hope, he will step right in for Vince and not miss a beat, especially after a year of strength and conditioning as well as practicing and adapting to the collegiate game.

My biggest concern is replacing PJ. A point guard that can shoot and isn't afraid of the big shot. He took care of the ball better than all of his teammates and he was a good unselfish passer. PJ had some atheltic and size limitations, but what he meant to the team was vastly underrated even more than Vince. When Vince had a bad game, it was usually terrible all around. PJ had a few games where he struggled defensively or he struggled to score, but he still found ways to be affective. I hope Eastern can step in and fill that void. As good as Carsen is, he is not PJ and was not efficient with the ball.
 
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The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.


I am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.

Fantastic post. 10/10 and would read again.
 
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Great post. The fact is, Vince is an outstanding player. He's gotten better and better, and he's been a loyal, hard-working kid for our university. I'm proud he's a Boiler, and I can't wait to see him play this year. He's exactly the kind of person we need at Purdue. And although already had an excellent career, I think his best basketball is ahead of him.
 
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My biggest concern is replacing PJ. A point guard that can shoot and isn't afraid of the big shot. He took care of the ball better than all of his teammates and he was a good unselfish passer. PJ had some atheltic and size limitations, but what he meant to the team was vastly underrated even more than Vince. When Vince had a bad game, it was usually terrible all around. PJ had a few games where he struggled defensively or he struggled to score, but he still found ways to be affective. I hope Eastern can step in and fill that void. As good as Carsen is, he is not PJ and was not efficient with the ball.
I like PJ and all, but replacing him is pretty low on my list of concerns. Going forward with the departing seniors in 2018, without an aircraft carrier attracting double teams down low, we are going to need guards who can create. CE and by all reports Eastern do this much better than PJ. I expect CE's decision making and caretaking of the ball to improve with time (the best thing about freshmen...). I also expect the two of them to switch assignments offense to defense to maximize their strengths and result in what I anticipate to be better PG defense than what we've seen the past couple years. I will never knock PJ because of his great attitude and because he does what is needed of him, but a different skill set is going to be needed without an AJ, Biggie, or Isaac to throw the ball to.
 
Vince may have taken a back seat to Biggie, but he still got some love. This is Vince's chance to shine. We shall see if he steps up.

Painter also has Wheeler. If Wheeler gains some weight and figures out how to shoot as well as Vince, Purdue won't miss a beat. Wheeler is similar size and more athletic. He played with a lot of talent and was pretty unselfish and very good at attacking the rim. If Wheeler progresses like most people hope, he will step right in for Vince and not miss a beat, especially after a year of strength and conditioning as well as practicing and adapting to the collegiate game.

My biggest concern is replacing PJ. A point guard that can shoot and isn't afraid of the big shot. He took care of the ball better than all of his teammates and he was a good unselfish passer. PJ had some atheltic and size limitations, but what he meant to the team was vastly underrated even more than Vince. When Vince had a bad game, it was usually terrible all around. PJ had a few games where he struggled defensively or he struggled to score, but he still found ways to be affective. I hope Eastern can step in and fill that void. As good as Carsen is, he is not PJ and was not efficient with the ball.
I don't see Wheeler becoming as skilled as Vince, ever.
 
I'd quote you, but I'd be accused of violating copyright laws!

Excellent points. VE is a quality guy!

Some guys aren't happy unless they're complaining, in your case, positive thoughts are encouraging! Thanks!
 
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I don't see Wheeler becoming as skilled as Vince, ever.
Disagree. He is already more athletic than Vince. There were a few times watching Vince dunk that I wondered if he was going to adjust to layup at the last second because he isn't explosive. Watch some film of Wheeler dunking and he barely tries.

Also, he has a much faster release on his shot than Vince does which is one of the areas he still needs to work on.
 
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Vince is a good player. His athleticism holds him back from being that next level player. He's not going to make a huge jump in production that people assume he will just because Biggie is gone. He will have another solid, unselfish year though.

Wheeler might be the best player on the team next year, but that doesn't mean he will get a ton of minutes or be super productive, especially with Vince in front of him. But from overall size, length, skill and athleticism....I'd put him up against anybody on the squad next year.
Painter is going to have some tough playing time decisions to make next year with Eastern and Wheeler. I think by the end of the year those guys will be huge contributors because of their skill, length and athleticism we will need to make a deep tourney run.
 
I think VE will have games a lot like last year, some good, some bad....

He had two great games last year where he had 25 & 26 pts

However, because of senior leadership and the opportunity now available with no CS, this coming year, hoping for....2-5 great - big time games. Does that mean he goes for 30+?? (now that he has surpassed the 25 pt plateau already twice) If it is 30+ ---Those will be fun to see if and when they happen.
 
I think most people have underrated VE's offensive rebounding prowess. I stated last year that VE not CS was a better offensive rebounder. I don't know how many times in close games last year, VE came up with a timely offensive board.

Look forward to seeing him in his senior year!
 
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Disagree. He is already more athletic than Vince. There were a few times watching Vince dunk that I wondered if he was going to adjust to layup at the last second because he isn't explosive. Watch some film of Wheeler dunking and he barely tries.

Also, he has a much faster release on his shot than Vince does which is one of the areas he still needs to work on.
Athleticism has nothing to do with skill. We have had plenty of great athletes who couldn't dribble, shoot, and pass.
 
Not saying you are wrong, but based upon what? I've just not seen enough to know one way or the other.
Vince was more skilled as a HS sophomore than Wheeler is now. Don't see him closing that gap. I see Wheeler as a taller, more athletic Smotherman.
 
Athleticism has nothing to do with skill. We have had plenty of great athletes who couldn't dribble, shoot, and pass.

Well watching his videos and listening to what Wheeler's coaches have said, he can dribble, shoot, and pass. Wheeler was a very good high school player. I am curious to see if it translates to the collegiate level. I expect him to be very similar to Vince with his numbers, but his added athleticism and defense will be a nice addition.
 
Vince was more skilled as a HS sophomore than Wheeler is now. Don't see him closing that gap. I see Wheeler as a taller, more athletic Smotherman.

What do you base this on? Wheeler is an incredibly talented high school player. They are ranked similarly coming out of high school, but Wheeler is considered vastly underrated and several national media guys called him a gem. Wheeler can do things now, that Vince still can't do after three years at the collegiate level. The only way he compares to Vince's game is size and versatility. They are different types of players. Wheeler has a much higher ceiling than Vince because Vince's lack of athleticism has held him back. Vince can shoot and pass very well. Wheeler can drive and is a very good defender. Vince's game may be been slightly more polished, but as Wheeler gets coaching and the strength/conditioning, he should be a star. When Vince's shot wasn't falling, he would check out of the game mentally. Vince is a shooter with size. Wheeler is a scorer with his elite athleticism. Vince lived up to his expectations, Wheeler hasn't played a single minute. I still think Wheeler will get compared to Vince quite frequently, but they are totally different types of players. Calling Wheeler a more athletic Vince is just referring to the size and versatility and not the way they play the game.
 
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Vince was more skilled as a HS sophomore than Wheeler is now. Don't see him closing that gap. I see Wheeler as a taller, more athletic Smotherman.
Would a fair compare and contrast be to say that Vince is a stronger perimeter shooter but Aaron can be a better slasher / above the rim player?
I would be good with that as it is an area we have been a bit weak in recently.
 
What do you base this on? Wheeler is an incredibly talented high school player. They are ranked similarly coming out of high school, but Wheeler is considered vastly underrated and several national media guys called him a gen. Wheeler can do things now, that Vince still can't do after three years at the collegiate level. The only way he compares to Vince's game is size and versatility. They are different types of players. Wheeler has a much higher ceiling than Vince because Vince's lack of athleticism has held him back. Vince can shoot and pass very well. Wheeler can drive and is a very good defender. Vince's game may be been slightly more polished, but as Wheeler gets coaching and the strength/conditioning, he should be a star. When Vince's shot wasn't falling, he would check out of the game mentally. Vince is a shooter with size. Wheeler is a scorer with his elite athleticism. Vince lived up to his expectations, Wheeler hasn't played a single minute. I still think Wheeler will get compared to Vince quite frequently, but they are totally different types of players. Calling Wheeler a more athletic Vince is just referring to the size and versatility and not the way they play the game.
You think Wheeler will average 20 and 10 in the NCAAs? I don't.
 
Would a fair compare and contrast be to say that Vince is a stronger perimeter shooter but Aaron can be a better slasher / above the rim player?
I would be good with that as it is an area we have been a bit weak in recently.
I think Vince is better at creating and making his own shot off the dribble than Wheeler, and a better rebounder, but Wheeler could be a better defender if he bulks up a bit.
 
What do you base this on? Wheeler is an incredibly talented high school player. They are ranked similarly coming out of high school, but Wheeler is considered vastly underrated and several national media guys called him a gen. Wheeler can do things now, that Vince still can't do after three years at the collegiate level. The only way he compares to Vince's game is size and versatility. They are different types of players. Wheeler has a much higher ceiling than Vince because Vince's lack of athleticism has held him back. Vince can shoot and pass very well. Wheeler can drive and is a very good defender. Vince's game may be been slightly more polished, but as Wheeler gets coaching and the strength/conditioning, he should be a star. When Vince's shot wasn't falling, he would check out of the game mentally. Vince is a shooter with size. Wheeler is a scorer with his elite athleticism. Vince lived up to his expectations, Wheeler hasn't played a single minute. I still think Wheeler will get compared to Vince quite frequently, but they are totally different types of players. Calling Wheeler a more athletic Vince is just referring to the size and versatility and not the way they play the game.

Vince can shoot it, but I'd consider him more of a "scorer" than a shooter. He's shown the ability to score off the dribble throughout his career. This past season, he added post-up moves to his scoring repertoire.
 
He already is... or is real close...

12 points, 3 assists, and almost 5 rebounds per game last year and he completely disappeared in several games. I don't expect Wheeler to be as versitle, because not many players do all the things Vince does. But I do expect him to be a much better defender and 12 ppg should be easy enough for him to obtain. 12 and 5 is a relatively low mark. Adding in the assists is what made Vince special.

If you are referring specifically to just the NCAA tournament, you would be correct. He is right around 20/10 in five games with 3 losses in those games. If Wheeler manages 12/5 and we go better than 2-3 in his first three years and avoid any first round knock outs, I would take that all day every day.
 
12 points, 3 assists, and almost 5 rebounds per game last year and he completely disappeared in several games. I don't expect Wheeler to be as versitle, because not many players do all the things Vince does. But I do expect him to be a much better defender and 12 ppg should be easy enough for him to obtain. 12 and 5 is a relatively low mark. Adding in the assists is what made Vince special.

If you are referring specifically to just the NCAA tournament, you would be correct. He is right around 20/10 in five games with 3 losses in those games. If Wheeler manages 12/5 and we go better than 2-3 in his first three years and avoid any first round knock outs, I would take that all day every day.
Yes I was referring to NCAA games - you know, the ones that count.

Wheeler is a better athlete, but Vince is just a baller.
 
The last couple of days have brought big news and mixed reactions. One thing a lot of people have agreed about is Vince's vital role next season. Vince has been polarizing for awhile, and this situation is no different. Some think he'll do great. Some think he doesn't have what it takes. This is my (extremely lengthy) way of saying that I just love Vince. For the sake of being positive (and getting it off my chest and making me feel better), I just wanted to share it.

Why I love Vince
1) He is a great teammate.

2) He never complains to the refs.

3) The guy hates to lose and loves Purdue. Just look at the end of every year, with the way he plays and how broken he is after the season. All these guys are young kids, and Vince is especially young. We love to talk about Biggie reclassifying and being a year young for his grade (sorta true, more like just on the young end of the right year traditionally). I have never once seen someone say the same about Vince. Vince was born in April 96. Biggie was born in April 97. Why make this point? 1) It shows how we can get on one narrative and just push it and push it and push it, while ignoring other things. 2) Vince was 18 when his freshman season ended, and he had to deal with missing the shot that could have won the game. He kept the missed last shot as the screensaver on his phone the whole off-season. Vince was 19 when his sophomore season ended. He again played great (24 & 13), but he had a bonehead play where he spaced that they had just went to the monitor and changed a UALR 2 to a 3 and thought Purdue was still up 1 when UALR hit the next 3. Several people tweeted horrible stuff, including some saying that a 19 year old Vince should kill himself afterward. He favorited every negative tweet. This guy has endured heartache, which is why you could see how much winning the Big Ten meant to him. He wouldn’t let go of the trophy. He carries a different demeanor than most basketball players on the court (he’s not super expressive or cocky), but he is a competitor who loves Purdue.

4) He reminds me of myself, particularly from a mental perspective. People love to talk about athletics like poor performances are always due to a lack of focus or desire: i.e. “he just didn’t show up.” As if, before the game started, a player decided it just wasn’t worth it today. I resent this so much. If there is a frustration with Vince, it should not be with his effort, but with his confidence level. If Vince has just made a 3, he becomes a phenomenal, aggressive shooter. On the other hand, no one is more affected by an 0-3 start to a game than Vince. He needs to have more confidence in himself and trust his game more. That, in turn, will give him more of the consistency he needs and fans so desperately crave. I get that it’s still frustrating at times. I also understand the confidence lapses because I went through the same thing. And in my mind it is a lot more forgivable than some lack of effort or desire, which is a cop out by fans and rarely, if ever, actually the case.

5) You can tell he has worked at every part of his game. There is no level of shot (layup, floater, mid-range, pull-up, step-back, 3 pointer) that he doesn’t have. He can dribble a bit and pass as well. He can play in the post or on the perimeter on either end. With another Vince type year, Vince is going to finish around 15th all-time for Purdue in scoring and 10th in both rebounds and assists. That’s crazy. He’ll be 1 of 2 players this millennium to put up the numbers he does in the Big Ten (The other being Denzel Valentine).

Why I think others are more negative about Vince
1) First impressions are huge. Vince’s defense was real bad in the first game that mattered (Villanova) last year. The narrative about Vince’s defense for the most of the year kept going back to that game. From about mid-December to March (excepting some possessions where he was too concerned about not fouling) Vince’s defense was well above average. Not only did Vince do a decent job on the ball, but he also plays more help defense than anyone on the team. A few times a season this is frustrating when he loses track of his man for a backdoor dunk, but more often he keeps other guys from giving up lay-ups by being very eager to rotate when he is away from the ball. Yes, he led the team in charges taken, but honestly, that is just a fraction of the picture of the times he rotated to prevent an easy basket, particularly on high ball screens. Vince was not a consistently great defender last year, and in one very defining, very memorable game he was really bad. But, on the whole, Vince’s defense was both above average and underappreciated.

2) Did I mention first impressions are huge? Another narrative that dominated about Vince for much of the year is that he “travels every time he touches the ball.” For whatever reason, Vince did travel a lot in the first few games. His shimmy shoulder fake was often accompanied by shuffling feet. By the end of the year, though, Vince was using his pivot foot and first step off the dribble better than he has at any point in his career. Would you believe me if I told you he got called for 1 travel in 18 Big Ten games? It’s true. For most of the year, Vince did not have a traveling problem, nor did he have a turnover problem, yet these issues remained the narrative all year.

3) Here is the biggest thing, something that has defined Vince’s career. Vince lives in limbo. There are star players (Hammons, Biggie) and there are role players. Which category is Vince in? It’s not simple. He is expected to perform like a star. He is treated like a role player. What do I mean by him being treated like a role player? He does not get the benefits of being a star (foul calls, plays ran for you, offense designed to utilize strengths, guaranteed PT and shots, etc.). PJ played as many minutes as Vince this year!! Carsen took more shots than Vince!! Yet, nobody accuses them of "disappearing" at the first sign of a bad game because Vince is given all of the responsibility and none of the privilege of being a star. The offense is in no way catered to his strengths. He doesn't get to drive 1-1 when he is matched up with a big. He rarely gets to attack a closeout. No, we expect Vince to get his on the side, and then we hold him to a higher standard than every other non-privileged player when he does not.

4) Expectations. The last point speaks to this as well. Vince gets held to a standard that he is not empowered to meet. I also think his strong start to his career has worked against him in some people’s minds. People love Mathias because the improvement this year was so evident. A guy that’s been steady and productive for 3 years? Eh. Boring. We expect 13, 5, and 3 and great shooting percentages from Vince. Why did that guy make 3rd team!? The lack of support (and at times, anger) over Vince making 3rd team this year was embarrassing.

5) Vince’s minutes per game have hardly went up throughout his career. Vince may wind up as one of the best players never to average even 29 minutes a game. His production has gone up, just not as much as some would like. I would suggest people’s numbers improve partly because they simply play more minutes. Vince hasn’t really had that luxury. Again, if you want him to be a star, then you have to empower him to be one.

6) People praise Vince for his versatility. But, do we realize this versatility has come from countless hours of hard work and dedication to the game of basketball? The narrative with Vince seems more often to be that he underachieves, not that he gets the most out of his ability by working on all parts of his game. I think this comes from some wrong ideas about Vince’s natural ability. Vince has super long legs, a high center of gravity, and not great (at all) lateral quickness. Vince looks like a basketball player, yes. But he doesn’t have the lateral quickness that even a Mathias does. We love Mathias because we see him as an overachiever. Great. He is. But I think there is some assuming/stereotyping that goes into thinking if Vince just applied himself he would be a better defender than Mathias. Despite his NBA looking body, Vince has serious physical limitations, and yet he holds his own in every facet of basketball. Vince is an overachiever too.
am confident Vince will fulfill whatever role he is asked to fill next year. Maybe he'll be treated like a star; maybe he won't. Either way, I just wanted to say that I'll love watching him play.


Poor, poor Vince. First Vince needs to be a member of the TEAM instead of promoting Vince. Once he does that, then we can talk about him helping Purdue.
 
Yes I was referring to NCAA games - you know, the ones that count.

Wheeler is a better athlete, but Vince is just a baller.

Well, three of those games were first round games against teams outside of the top 25. ISU and Kansas were the only teams in the top 25. He had one good game and one awful game. Those numbers are a bit inflated. I could care less about personal stats. What I care about his wins and he is 2-3 in the tournament. You want to be a stud in the tournament, win some games. It isn't all on him, but he is the going to be the best player for Purdue next year. He has to step up. And the regular season matters, because seeding is very important. Avoiding playing a team like Kansas in Kansas City is important. This year is very important for Vince. He can't disappear in games like last year. Also, you can't say he is better than Wheeler before he has played a single minute. Vince walked right into playing time as a freshman. That likely won't happen for Wheeler. Sophomore year will likely be Wheeler's breakout year, and I do expect him to get to 10 ppg and hopefully add 3-5 rbg, especially if he plays the 4 like Vince. Wheeler compare better to Wilson from Michigan than Vince. I'll take the high ceiling. I like Vince and I am very glad he came back, but we already have his replacement waiting to shine.
 
I don't think it is really a VE vs Wheeler so much as it is VE PLUS. Wheeler...need both to produce.
 
Athleticism has nothing to do with skill. We have had plenty of great athletes who couldn't dribble, shoot, and pass.

True. But the more athletic you are combined with skill and size allows you to be more effective. You can be the most skilled baller in the world but if you are 5'9 and not quick most likely you aren't playing D-1 basketball.

If Michael Jordan wasn't uber athletic, he wouldn't have been nearly the player he was.

Luckily for Purdue, Wheeler is both super athletic and skilled for his size and that athleticism allows him to do things that other skilled players like Dakota and even Vince can't do. See video....
 
True. But the more athletic you are combined with skill and size allows you to be more effective. You can be the most skilled baller in the world but if you are 5'9 and not quick most likely you aren't playing D-1 basketball.

If Michael Jordan wasn't uber athletic, he wouldn't have been nearly the player he was.

Luckily for Purdue, Wheeler is both super athletic and skilled for his size and that athleticism allows him to do things that other skilled players like Dakota and even Vince can't do. See video....
LOL - did you see some of the kids he was playing against in that video?
 
LOL - did you see some of the kids he was playing against in that video?

http://www.hammerandrails.com/2017/3/10/14891344/2017-purdue-basketball-recruiting-aaron-wheeler

Wheeler won a national championship in an undefeated season (last time that happened was 1998) and was the tournament MVP on the best team in the nation. Wheeler is the real deal. Expecting him to be as good as Vince is reasonable. It may not happen, but the skill and athleticism are there. The video is on there if you would like to watch him play the second best team in the nation. He is number 1. Enjoy.
 
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Poor, poor Vince. First Vince needs to be a member of the TEAM instead of promoting Vince. Once he does that, then we can talk about him helping Purdue.

???

When has he ever promoted himself and/or made himself more important than the team?
 
Well, three of those games were first round games against teams outside of the top 25. ISU and Kansas were the only teams in the top 25. He had one good game and one awful game. Those numbers are a bit inflated. I could care less about personal stats. What I care about his wins and he is 2-3 in the tournament. You want to be a stud in the tournament, win some games. It isn't all on him, but he is the going to be the best player for Purdue next year. He has to step up. And the regular season matters, because seeding is very important. Avoiding playing a team like Kansas in Kansas City is important. This year is very important for Vince. He can't disappear in games like last year. Also, you can't say he is better than Wheeler before he has played a single minute. Vince walked right into playing time as a freshman. That likely won't happen for Wheeler. Sophomore year will likely be Wheeler's breakout year, and I do expect him to get to 10 ppg and hopefully add 3-5 rbg, especially if he plays the 4 like Vince. Wheeler compare better to Wilson from Michigan than Vince. I'll take the high ceiling. I like Vince and I am very glad he came back, but we already have his replacement waiting to shine.
Any NCAA tournament game is more important than a conference game against Michigan, Illinois, or Iowa on a Tuesday night in January. The pressure of win or go home has an adverse effect on lots of players. Vince shines in these high pressure games, like he did when he carried us in a win over our rival on their home court.

Wheeler's team winning a prep school championship is great, and he does have a really high ceiling, but he also has a lower floor than Vince IMO.
 
Vince is going to be a senior. Aaron is going to be a freshman that looks very good in his tapes. Let's give him some time before passing judgement. I'm happy both are on this team.

Exactly.... I don't understand this whole thread. Can't both contribute and be positive difference making Boilers? Do frosh now have to be better than seniors?
 
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