Seth Davis Comment

[BoilerAndy]

Specifically multiple zones and "junk defenses" that take Edey out of the equation as much and force others to score consistently. Full court pressure. Maryland completely changed the tempo of that game. I'm not saying they were that great at it, but another team could be more effective (better athletes). I'm thinking of a team like Alabama or Arizona that have good bigs and very athletic.

I agree that historically Purdue has trouble with quick, athletic teams -- especially guards. Will Illinois test them?

I think (hope) Edey has played against some of the best bigs in the country this year and last year, so that by itself doesn't concern me. If Furst, TKR, and Gillis bring their A-game throughout the tournament, other teams will see a front line they have NEVER seen.

This team has seen a few teams (like W. Virginia) press and the opponent usually gives up after it fails a few times. Maryland used it and it slowed Purdue a little. We will probably see it from Iowa and from Maryland again. Hopefully a press in the tournament won't surprise them.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Those two plays are great examples of the little things that Zach does that don’t show up in the stats.

Damn immovable wall. MSU guy tried to sell it but Zach was planted.

 

[Boiler8285]

Anyone who has been a Purdue fan for the last 40 years wonders or has nightmares about the NCAAT. One bad day and it is over. Purdue can do a lot of things to beat opponents. Every game we will likely be the favorite and playing someone with nothing to lose. If I was an opposing coach in that scenario I would throw everything at Edey and hope Purdue has a bad day shooting the 3. Edey's man fronts him, the weak side defender, doubles him from behind and whoever is on the ball pressures hard. That would leave all kinds of open 3s but hopefully low percentage from the corners. If the ball gets to Edey slap down on his arms if he tries to dribble and hang on his arms if he tries to go up. Probably have 20 fouls to give and no ref wants to be the guy that sends Edey to the line for 40 FTs. Just don't let him get to the rim at all costs. Maryland did it with the goon they brought off the bench. Might steal a win or get blown out but Sparty proved you can't guard Edey straight up and we did hit 3s when they helped. If Purdue is clicking on all cylinders I don't really know how we get beat.

 

[tjreese]

Listening to Seth on Sunday, I was nodding in agreement. But ruminating a bit more on the “fear of getting my hopes up”, I realize that I have more confidence in this team to adjust and overcome than any other team post the baby boilers, who were frankly dealt a kick in the nads in Minneapolis. From the leadership, to the togetherness, the tenacity, the dominance of Edey, the attention to detail, etc., etc., this team is better constructed than those of the past several years imho.

I agree that this team is better constructed to handle a lot more things, I don't know that this team can put together as strong a run as last year, but it will not let as strong a run against it as last year and will be more consistent at playing at a really good rate longer.

 

[tjreese]

There was a good example of this yesterday against MSU.

In the second half around 5:30 left, we ran a set where Loyer got the wide open 3 because Zach sealed the recovering defender perfectly out of the low post. We ran it the next possession and they countered so we swung it to Gillis who dropped it deep to Edey for an easy 2.

As much as Painter has to counter, the 5 guys on the court have to recognize what the defense is doing to know how to counter in real time.

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Think of it like this perhaps? A lot of teams run a 5 to ball screen a 1 or maybe a 2 on top of the key. What they have done is put generally two players at opposite ends physically on offense to be defended with some physical limitations on the 1 and 5 defensively to adjust in how to defend that.

Here away from the ball, Matt does essentially the same thing. He uses the 5 as the screener again, but away from the ball and you have a similar concern. Zach's screen buys time...does it free up a shooter...does the big have to cover the offensive player that was helped with a screen and if so...then you have the 5 going back to the basket with a smaller player on him. Matt creates similar concerns away from the ball and is able to use different players that maybe are not as good as handling the ball.

 

[tjreese]

He certainly does. However, knowing what you want to do and being able to do it can be 2 different things. I agree with TJ, physical guards (and allowed to be physical) could be an issue. Baylor guards as an example. Our offense is beautiful when allowed to flow and make our cuts and passes. Physical play on the exterior can mess that all up.
As far as zone, I agree with most that it may not be affective. However, if we shoot from 3 like we have in some games it could be a tough night.

I expect a physical perimeter D by IU in the Hall as well as Galloway and Schifino working off a high post (TJD or?) to use their size down lower by driving and cutting. Hopefully, if Zach goes to help on a drive that the lob is not there for TJD. That secondary rotation has to take away the offensive board and lob. Course if not already switched with those two defended by Fletcher and Braden I expect Braden on Bates, Ethan on Schifino and Fletcher on Koop as primary defenders. If the perimeter sees a quick whistle or Purdue handles the perimeter D I believe that Purdue should be in good shape. Course any hot or cold shooting by either team is a huge disadvantage. I want to believe that Purdue has more perimeter threats than IU should one or two be cold on both teams. It will be the most hostile arena these freshman have played against, but they have been cool beyond their years and so who know? It was lack of poise last year that gave IU hope... I want to see a Sterling Carter game by Jenkins. Kim said she saw that IU was predicted to win by 55% on espn?

 

[tjreese]

I brought the officiating up before. Big Ten refs let things go, we see with our own eyes Edey doesnt foul, but in the past he has had foul trouble when they call elbows or things like that on him jest because his elbow is face level.

As for a press, we handled it very well in the past, this is for 2 reasons, Smith is way better than anyone expected, even those that loved the kid have to be surprised, the other reason is Fletch. He has surpeising PG skills, best ballhandler SG we have had in years, and we have bench ballhandlers too. (jenkins for example), this team is a great ballhandling team.

As for the zone, we will offensive rebound the hell out of any team that goes zone against us, but that is what i would do. The other way you beat the zone is shoot over the zone, so if we are hitting our outside shots, we could bury a team that goes zone against us, but if we are not, it could be a long night.

I'm not surprised offensively, although I thought he would take one or two more perimeter shots than he has. I am surprised on the defensive end. Months ago I said I didn't have a feel for how well he could play D in the Big just due to the length, quickness and strength, of the opposition,but he has handled that well... as well. His passing, vision, court savvy, shooting , and leadership could be seen in high school. I just didn't know he would immediately be as effective right out of the gate...the first game in front of a crowd.

 

[indyogb]

It's an interesting discussion (in lieu of more dramatic problems). Some people make some excellent points (especially about rebounding against a zone; we killed MSU on the offensive glass and they were going man to man). If our wings and guards are hitting their threes (which they've been better about the couple games) opponents won't be willing to zone us too long. We have better point guards to defeat the press than we've had in a while (save for maybe Edwards and Ivey just taking the ball in the past), so I'm not as worried about that as usual. The guys are 21-1, which means they're good. I don't think there's a magic bullet that will suddenly defeat them. More often than not, it's going to take multiple pieces falling into just the right places (one of those being a fairly well matched opponent, talent-wise) to beat this team.

There are no guarantees in a single elimination tournament as luck is a huge factor. However, this team appears to have a pretty good shot at making a long run. We'll see if the conventional wisdom (tournament success depends on elite guards and wings which seems to have morphed into "big men don't matter" of late ) holds this year - and our guards and wings ain't bad, either.

 

[tjreese]

It's an interesting discussion (in lieu of more dramatic problems). Some people make some excellent points (especially about rebounding against a zone; we killed MSU on the offensive glass and they were going man to man). If our wings and guards are hitting their threes (which they've been better about the couple games) opponents won't be willing to zone us too long. We have better point guards to defeat the press than we've had in a while (save for maybe Edwards and Ivey just taking the ball in the past), so I'm not as worried about that as usual. The guys are 21-1, which means they're good. I don't think there's a magic bullet that will suddenly defeat them. More often than not, it's going to take multiple pieces falling into just the right places (one of those being a fairly well matched opponent, talent-wise) to beat this team.

There are no guarantees in a single elimination tournament as luck is a huge factor. However, this team appears to have a pretty good shot at making a long run. We'll see if the conventional wisdom (tournament success depends on elite guards and wings which seems to have morphed into "big men don't matter" of late ) holds this year - and our guards and wings ain't bad, either.

Bigs absolutely are important in March for so much of the game being played and appropriately called. However, if the game has equal bigs or if the game is just close, then the guards have the ball in their hands and can make plays on their own without needing someone to pass the ball to them. The guards are just in a better position to make the last couple of possessions without help...where the big has to get the ball passed to him and many times those last couple of baskets are viewed more important than earlier baskets. There are a LOT of good guards out there, but much fewer good bigs just due to the numbers. Also, I think a lot of refs don't do as many games with really good bigs very much. The smaller schools only have a good big it seems when the kid is a senior and so they seem to be few between. Any clawing, hacking and jumping on the back of a good big negates him where the spacing for the perimeter players is easier to see and call....but you typically need good bigs to be in the game at teh end...

 

[SunnyFL24]

I'm not too concerned with the defensive schemes they throw against us....as long as we continue to play great defense...I think we will be fine! That being said ..getting to final 4 is all about match ups!

 

[cgnops]

Same dumb bullshit from you. Nothing to offer. Just move on if you don't care. Obviously others do because they are discussing it.

Offer the same anyone else does, an opinion. And as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes - everyone has them and they usually stink. I trust painter to adjust as necessary and hope the fellas execute. I don’t mind the discussion, just think that comment is a no brainer, of course we haven’t solved a problem that we haven’t seen. I’m sure painter has the answers, go ahead and look for the questions if that’s what you want to do.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Good god....it's a forum with the right to discuss things! Wasn't a bash in any form.....with out track record in tourney.....always good to have honest conversations!

Having a bad day….?

 

[typeviic]

During the post game show yesterday he made the comment that has been concerning me for some time: How does PU react when they are faced with something they either haven't seen or rarely see? (he was extremely complimentary of CMP and PU and even said the fan base deserves a FF and hopes we get one). So please leave the thoughts of him out of it. I'm just quoting him because it was something I have thought also.

I was glad when the Maryland coach switched up and started pressing and dropping into a zone off of it. I think it's pretty clear that we are prepared and do well against M to M defense. Let's be honest, its what we see 95% of the time in the B1G. I know we love our conference but I don't think it necessarily prepares us well for the tournament. I believe that the almost exclusive M to M is one of the reasons we haven't had a champion in 23 years. If you watch other major conferences, they change up quite often so their teams are used to facing many different looks. In the B1G conference our only question is, are they going to double Edey or play him straight up.

If we were to play Kansas for example, I guarantee Self is going to give us looks we never see in the B1G. We may still win, but it won't be because Edey catches the ball 3 feet from the basket and turns and scores. Alabama and Arizona, same thing. Izzo has been to a bunch of FF's, but it isn't because of versatility. Yesterday showed that in spades. Edey was having his way inside and Izzo never went to anything else. He threw a few double teams in, but never tried anything else. Just threw up his hands and gave up.

This isn't an argument for CMP to play zone, let's try and leave that out of it. I'm specifically talking about what other teams do or may do to us in the tournament. It's my biggest concern other than injuries. Interested to hear what others think about our conference preparing us for the dance.

Thats the reason I disdain Wisc and Virginia so much. The so-called "pack-line" defense.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Having a bad day….?

You’re the one who pooped their pants about someone sharing a blurb from a basketball personality.

 

[*4purdue*]

During the post game show yesterday he made the comment that has been concerning me for some time: How does PU react when they are faced with something they either haven't seen or rarely see? (he was extremely complimentary of CMP and PU and even said the fan base deserves a FF and hopes we get one). So please leave the thoughts of him out of it. I'm just quoting him because it was something I have thought also.

I was glad when the Maryland coach switched up and started pressing and dropping into a zone off of it. I think it's pretty clear that we are prepared and do well against M to M defense. Let's be honest, its what we see 95% of the time in the B1G. I know we love our conference but I don't think it necessarily prepares us well for the tournament. I believe that the almost exclusive M to M is one of the reasons we haven't had a champion in 23 years. If you watch other major conferences, they change up quite often so their teams are used to facing many different looks. In the B1G conference our only question is, are they going to double Edey or play him straight up.

If we were to play Kansas for example, I guarantee Self is going to give us looks we never see in the B1G. We may still win, but it won't be because Edey catches the ball 3 feet from the basket and turns and scores. Alabama and Arizona, same thing. Izzo has been to a bunch of FF's, but it isn't because of versatility. Yesterday showed that in spades. Edey was having his way inside and Izzo never went to anything else. He threw a few double teams in, but never tried anything else. Just threw up his hands and gave up.

This isn't an argument for CMP to play zone, let's try and leave that out of it. I'm specifically talking about what other teams do or may do to us in the tournament. It's my biggest concern other than injuries. Interested to hear what others think about our conference preparing us for the dance.

CMP has never been one to adjust, which is why I've always questioned his coaching. He will play our style no mater the circumstance. Fortunately he has recruited a team that has pretty much seen everything there is, which includes a point guard that can pretty much break the press himself, great outside shooting, great depth & an inside presence that no other team has been able to match & has shown the ability to dominate & make great decisions whether he is double or triple teamed. My only real concern is injury & Edey foul trouble. Otherwise, this team should make the final four.

 

[boiler in bloomington]

Enjoy what is happening now instead of being a pseudo fan who can’t enjoy what Purdue is accomplishing at present but instead worries what failure you think we might not overcome in the future. Suggest you call into Matt Painter Radio Show and offer what you think he should be doing and explain your reasoning. That tended to go over well the last time someone felt they knew better than Painter…

Piss poor response to someone wanting to discuss basketball.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

CMP has never been one to adjust, which is why I've always questioned his coaching. He will play our style no mater the circumstance. Fortunately he has recruited a team that has pretty much seen everything there is, which includes a point guard that can pretty much break the press himself, great outside shooting, great depth & an inside presence that no other team has been able to match & has shown the ability to dominate & make great decisions whether he is double or triple teamed. My only real concern is injury & Edey foul trouble. Otherwise, this team should make the final four.

I have a hypothesis that Painter has been waiting for a true on court Painter that can think like him. He has that in Loyer and Braden. Two dudes who know how to progress through play families based on what the defense is giving them.

Couple that with Edey, Furst, Gillis, Morton et al and you have a dangerous grouping

 

[mathboy]

CMP has never been one to adjust, which is why I've always questioned his coaching. He will play our style no mater the circumstance. ????

What? You really think this? Painter is well known across the sport for making in-game adjustments. In fact he is considered of the best at that. Don't confuse player incompetent or players not following directions (Ivey) for a lack of adjustment by Painter. He knows what needs to be done, but sometimes the other team just outplays you.

But hey, you are welcome to your opinion I guess...

 

[titaniumbolt]

I'm honestly curious what you think Purdue has not seen yet, or won't see before the NCAA tournaments.

Physical, tough, smart guards

 

[titaniumbolt]

Good analysis. We are much better at breaking the press now than before. I hope Maryland tries to press us again and we make them pay. Any team dropping into a zone with our 3-pt shooters and our offensive rebounding is just asking to be blown out of the gym. If I'm playing Purdue I'd pressure the ball and front Edey. Take my chances on letting Morton or Smith kill me with long shots. The problem is both those guys will kill you if you leave them alone. Gillis? Furst? Jenkins? Newman? They will all kill an opponent with the 3-ball.

Purdue is ranked 235/363 in 3 point % opposing teams are gonna let them shoot. The guards are going to see a ton of pressure come March - full court pressure and traps. The guards in the Big Ten are a notch lower than the cream of the crop on a national level.

 

[HarrysPostGame13]

One thing I will say I like about this team is how cool they’ve been in close games late. That experience and response can only help down the road.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Purdue is ranked 235/363 in 3 point % opposing teams are gonna let them shoot. The guards are going to see a ton of pressure come March - full court pressure and traps. The guards in the Big Ten are a notch lower than the cream of the crop on a national level.

Purdue has shot 38% or higher from 3 in seven of the last eight games. I am not worried.

 

[titaniumbolt]

Purdue has shot 38% or higher from 3 in seven of the last eight games. I am not worried.

And they shot 30% in the ninth.... playing against physical guards.

 

[depthcharge623]

And they shot 30% in the ninth.... playing against physical guards.

In the ninth? What does that mean?

 

[ChoiceBeef]

And they shot 30% in the ninth.... playing against physical guards.

What did your team shoot tonight and get dog walked by Maryland?

Willard played right into TJD’s head.

 

[cgnops]

In the ninth? What does that mean?

The game prior to the last 8

 

[tjreese]

What? You really think this? Painter is well known across the sport for making in-game adjustments. In fact he is considered of the best at that. Don't confuse player incompetent or players not following directions (Ivey) for a lack of adjustment by Painter. He knows what needs to be done, but sometimes the other team just outplays you.

But hey, you are welcome to your opinion I guess...

I may be speaking out of turn as I've done a few times, but believe when I read about no adjustments I think those posters don't see tweaks within a system as an adjustment...but a system adjustment like a zone or press is what they want. If a system adjustment is what they want, then yes, Matt doesn't press until it is the last choice and doesn't play a straight zone either and so in their eyes there is no adjustment.

Others see tweaks "within a system" as an ajustment and so there may be a failure to communicate?

 

[cgnops]

I may be speaking out of turn as I've done a few times, but believe when I read about no adjustments I think those posters don't see tweaks within a system as an adjustment...but a system adjustment like a zone or press is what they want. If a system adjustment is what they want, then yes, Matt doesn't press until it is the last choice and doesn't play a straight zone either and so in their eyes there is no adjustment.

Others see tweaks "within a system" as an ajustment and so there may be a failure to communicate?

I think you nailed it here. Matt takes a more subtle approach and tweaks a few aspects rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water. Take for example, the slight changes to how we moved and rotated against msu screens to keep walker in check compared to the first game against them. Those small but effective adjustments often go unnoticed.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I have a hypothesis that Painter has been waiting for a true on court Painter that can think like him. He has that in Loyer and Braden. Two dudes who know how to progress through play families based on what the defense is giving them.

Couple that with Edey, Furst, Gillis, Morton et al and you have a dangerous grouping

an on-court Painter that can also shoot and score....haha.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I may be speaking out of turn as I've done a few times, but believe when I read about no adjustments I think those posters don't see tweaks within a system as an adjustment...but a system adjustment like a zone or press is what they want. If a system adjustment is what they want, then yes, Matt doesn't press until it is the last choice and doesn't play a straight zone either and so in their eyes there is no adjustment.

Others see tweaks "within a system" as an ajustment and so there may be a failure to communicate?

 

[tjreese]

I think you nailed it here. Matt takes a more subtle approach and tweaks a few aspects rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water. Take for example, the slight changes to how we moved and rotated against msu screens to keep walker in check compared to the first game against them. Those small but effective adjustments often go unnoticed.

Those rotations which after the first rotation were probably read and finding the guy open "that was in the most threatening position from where the ball was" in a scramble. Quite simply they were outstanding...really, really good...maybe the best I've ever seen in Mackey! Coaches will have a belief system and will stay in that belief only adjusting as believed necessary. Some coaches will do more obvious things because their system is more diverse.

I suppose all this could tie to the ole "educational saying"...should you teach an inch deep and a mile wide or a mile deep and an inch wide? Arguments can be made for both although in k-12 I prefer teh inch deep and mile wide and would flip flop that probably in college.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I may be speaking out of turn as I've done a few times, but believe when I read about no adjustments I think those posters don't see tweaks within a system as an adjustment...but a system adjustment like a zone or press is what they want. If a system adjustment is what they want, then yes, Matt doesn't press until it is the last choice and doesn't play a straight zone either and so in their eyes there is no adjustment.

Others see tweaks "within a system" as an ajustment and so there may be a failure to communicate?

I'm not sure which game it was, but when we were entering the pass to Zack from the sides, they doubled with the defender on that side. It wasn't too long before all the entry passes were from the top of the key and no one had time to double him. Subtle, but successful.

 

[tjreese]

I'm not sure which game it was, but when we were entering the pass to Zack from the sides, they doubled with the defender on that side. It wasn't too long before all the entry passes were from the top of the key and no one had time to double him. Subtle, but successful.

I expect due to Ethan's shooting that his defender will go down and dig when available. I doubt we see Fletcher's player go down and dig and/or Braden's...or Brandon...or Gillis although both of those are a bit slower on their release and offer a bit longer closeout possibility...Caleb's defender will dig if Caleb passes or double when Caleb is weak side.

 

[depthcharge623]

I think you nailed it here. Matt takes a more subtle approach and tweaks a few aspects rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water. Take for example, the slight changes to how we moved and rotated against msu screens to keep walker in check compared to the first game against them. Those small but effective adjustments often go unnoticed.

Not saying your overall point is wrong but that’s not an in game adjustment, its between two games. Would have been a better example if Painter had made that same adjustment at halftime of the first MSU game. Just discussion, no criticism or disrespect to Painter.

 

[tjreese]

Not saying your overall point is wrong but that’s not an in game adjustment, its between two games. Would have been a better example if Painter had made that same adjustment at halftime of the first MSU game. Just discussion, no criticism or disrespect to Painter.

I agree it was an in-between game adjustment that might be very difficult to accomplish within a game. Relative to your question and concerns consider the following:

1) when you see Terry Johnson holding up a board at the sideline he is trying to adjust a "play on" to a specific set in which he thinks going to that set instead of a play on is needed and will be successful.

2) When you see Paul Lusk talking to a specific player he is trying to adjust that player specifically defensively in team defense and probably individual needs for that player.

You will see both take place several times in a game.

 

[*4purdue*]

Purdue is ranked 235/363 in 3 point % opposing teams are gonna let them shoot. The guards are going to see a ton of pressure come March - full court pressure and traps. The guards in the Big Ten are a notch lower than the cream of the crop on a national level.

We're up 10 spots to 225 since you posted this.... at that rate we'll be top 5 come March.

 

[searscoach33]

During the post game show yesterday he made the comment that has been concerning me for some time: How does PU react when they are faced with something they either haven't seen or rarely see? (he was extremely complimentary of CMP and PU and even said the fan base deserves a FF and hopes we get one). So please leave the thoughts of him out of it. I'm just quoting him because it was something I have thought also.

I was glad when the Maryland coach switched up and started pressing and dropping into a zone off of it. I think it's pretty clear that we are prepared and do well against M to M defense. Let's be honest, its what we see 95% of the time in the B1G. I know we love our conference but I don't think it necessarily prepares us well for the tournament. I believe that the almost exclusive M to M is one of the reasons we haven't had a champion in 23 years. If you watch other major conferences, they change up quite often so their teams are used to facing many different looks. In the B1G conference our only question is, are they going to double Edey or play him straight up.

If we were to play Kansas for example, I guarantee Self is going to give us looks we never see in the B1G. We may still win, but it won't be because Edey catches the ball 3 feet from the basket and turns and scores. Alabama and Arizona, same thing. Izzo has been to a bunch of FF's, but it isn't because of versatility. Yesterday showed that in spades. Edey was having his way inside and Izzo never went to anything else. He threw a few double teams in, but never tried anything else. Just threw up his hands and gave up.

This isn't an argument for CMP to play zone, let's try and leave that out of it. I'm specifically talking about what other teams do or may do to us in the tournament. It's my biggest concern other than injuries. Interested to hear what others think about our conference preparing us for the dance.

NO Press O - Never Has - apparently Never Will

 

[pubill]

NO Press O - Never Has - apparently Never Will

Other than 1 time Morton had brain fart, when did press hurt us today?

 

[searscoach33]

Other than 1 time Morton had brain fart, when did press hurt us today?

other than wearing out Braden, slowing us down and having less time to run our intricate sets, changing the pace and flow of the game, allowing Maryland to Dictate the game ... Nothing really

 

[titaniumbolt]

Purdue is ranked 235/363 in 3 point % opposing teams are gonna let them shoot. The guards are going to see a ton of pressure come March - full court pressure and traps. The guards in the Big Ten are a notch lower than the cream of the crop on a national level.

And they shot 30% in the ninth.... playing against physical guards.

You all still not worried?