Raphael Davis as of late
- Thread starter Summy1
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I don't like this response, and find it offensive. Perhaps Rapheal is hurt. Did you consider that?
Whatever the reason for his lack of offensive production...Davis needs to come off the bench (15-20 minutes). A team needs scoring from the 2 slot (or shooting guard). The lack of a scoring threat from Davis allows the defense to back off him and help down low against our big frontline...mitigating the advantage in the front court which Purdue has worked so hard to put together. Collectively...the front line of Edwards, Swanigan, and Hammons (or Haas) is one of the best in college basketball. Please Coach Painter...let's take full advantage of our big talented frontline...and have that inside as well as outside threat combo which would make Purdue very difficult to defend and, therefore, beat. Stephens (2), Mathias (1 or 2), and Cline (2) please report to the scorers table. Your time to make the defense honest has come.
Did I hurt your feelings? I have watched him play since he was in high school. He has always relied on his physical superiority to play the game. He never developed an overall floor game. He still shoots a set shot like a 7th grader. Tell me "I'm wrong".
Bottom line: We are a better team with him on the bench. And if it is as simple as him being hurt, then shame on Painter for playing him.
Bottom line: We are a better team with him on the bench. And if it is as simple as him being hurt, then shame on Painter for playing him.
Per CMP, Davis did not give up a single basket defensively vs IU in the half court.
If we had E'twaun Moore or Troy Lewis on the roster, I am sure they would be starting ahead of Ray. But we don't.
I like what Davis brings with his defensive game but he is really struggling on offense. Purdue has to get some points from him if they want to win.
Conversely, it is not as if IU had one of their primary scorers locked down by Davis. If anything, locking down Johnson (or whoever Davis was guarding) probably forced IU more to their strengths.
I agree. If this teams going to go deep Davis needs to step up. he's our guy and we are going to rely on him even if he's in a slump.
Are you serious? When I watch IU I think Johnson is their second best player. He kind of is their Vince. he always makes the right decision and is someone who is so hard to sub off the floor.
Davis may have not given up a basket defensively, but did that make a difference in the outcome? There is no reason this team should struggle offensively, but it does when he plays 30+ minutes. Has this been the case all season, maybe not, but right now teams are really hedging on Davis and Hill. Adjustments need to be made on the rotations. When we have the lead we should have at the end of games, then yes I want RD in there getting stops on defensive but subbed when able on the O end.
Davis will be fine....he needs to drive to the basket and hit his free throws to keep the defense honest....
I am proud of him.......being a senior leader, father, husband and amazing student.
He just needs to keep focused and lead this team to good things to come this year.
Boiler Up!
I am proud of him.......being a senior leader, father, husband and amazing student.
He just needs to keep focused and lead this team to good things to come this year.
Boiler Up!
Yes. You are much more impressed with their 5th leading scorer than I am. He is an upgrade over Blackmon, but when the ball is in his hands its not in Ferrell's.
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This is RD's team as much as Painter's. I get that you don't like that he is in a slump. I'm sure that it is difficult to shoot your way out of a slump taking 4 shots a game. I don't like that Hammons shoots a fade-away off one foot instead of passing, but I take the bad with the good. If we find that elusive extra gear that good tournament teams find, it will be because of RD.
He also didn't score. So our senior playing 34 minutes was a net wash, maybe worse since he missed some shots...It's not like iu didn't score at will. It doesn't matter if his guy doesn't score if the other guys score. He can't go for zero. It's unacceptable. I like Ray but he's gotta be effective on BOTH ends if he's gonna play 34 minutes a game.
I didn't mean to imply that Ray is more important than the team. I only mean that he is going to start and play more minutes than anyone else unless something catastrophic happens. So, I think Maryland will hedge in on him as usual. I hope he makes them pay by simply shooting his way out of his slump like Yogi did last Sat.
It is not a case of being in a slump, and CMP was simply incorrect in his statement...he made it only to justify his sticking with a guy who provided absolutely nothing at the offensive end in 34 minutes of play when someone questioned him on it.
He showed in the MSU game that he is physically healthy...he also made it a point to mention how important that particular game was and how focused he was on/for it...which, given how he played, seems to be a bigger issue in that he has not done the same in/for other games.
In addition, for a guy that had been a seemingly really solid leader (since he arrived for that matter), he has not been this year...this team does not have a strong leader unfortunately, and it is at least in part why this team has lost games that it should not have.
Bottom line, Purdue can't afford to have Davis play 34 minutes and provide absolutely nothing at one end of the floor, and while he is Purdue's best defender, he is not the same defender that he was a year ago...that may be due to his injury I guess, but again, it did not pose a problem when he was on a mission (his own words) for the MSU game...sad and disappointing that he has not been on a similar mission for the course of his final season.
He should be better...and consistent...and his not being so has hurt Purdue more than anything else. I don't think Purdue can afford to take him out of the starting line-up, as they are not a good team defensively already, and replacing him with another deficient defender is not going to help matters in that regard...I do think that his minutes have to go down though, as his lack of presence and virtual disappearing act at the offensive end is difficult for Purdue to overcome.
He showed in the MSU game that he is physically healthy...he also made it a point to mention how important that particular game was and how focused he was on/for it...which, given how he played, seems to be a bigger issue in that he has not done the same in/for other games.
In addition, for a guy that had been a seemingly really solid leader (since he arrived for that matter), he has not been this year...this team does not have a strong leader unfortunately, and it is at least in part why this team has lost games that it should not have.
Bottom line, Purdue can't afford to have Davis play 34 minutes and provide absolutely nothing at one end of the floor, and while he is Purdue's best defender, he is not the same defender that he was a year ago...that may be due to his injury I guess, but again, it did not pose a problem when he was on a mission (his own words) for the MSU game...sad and disappointing that he has not been on a similar mission for the course of his final season.
He should be better...and consistent...and his not being so has hurt Purdue more than anything else. I don't think Purdue can afford to take him out of the starting line-up, as they are not a good team defensively already, and replacing him with another deficient defender is not going to help matters in that regard...I do think that his minutes have to go down though, as his lack of presence and virtual disappearing act at the offensive end is difficult for Purdue to overcome.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Rays life outside of basketball as a reason he may be "disconnected" from the game.
He is raising a child and married as a senior in college. He knows he isn't going to play pro ball and probably is very focused on getting his degree and dealing with what all young parents do on top of it.
Bottom line is he was expected to give us a reasonable amount of offense when we knew he would play the 2. He hasn't consistently. Although it isn't the reason we have lost games we should have won overall. It has had a major affect on what many people felt was a given, including Painter as is shown by his continuing to play him as many minutes as he gets.
Perhaps the final stretch will maks it click for him?
I have no issue with Painter going with the sophs and Biggie to start the game so we can start out strong offensively. The defense seems to be close to equal at this point with those guys in there. Plug Ray and AJ in there five minutes in, to lock down the opponent and then run your rotations accordingly.
He is raising a child and married as a senior in college. He knows he isn't going to play pro ball and probably is very focused on getting his degree and dealing with what all young parents do on top of it.
Bottom line is he was expected to give us a reasonable amount of offense when we knew he would play the 2. He hasn't consistently. Although it isn't the reason we have lost games we should have won overall. It has had a major affect on what many people felt was a given, including Painter as is shown by his continuing to play him as many minutes as he gets.
Perhaps the final stretch will maks it click for him?
I have no issue with Painter going with the sophs and Biggie to start the game so we can start out strong offensively. The defense seems to be close to equal at this point with those guys in there. Plug Ray and AJ in there five minutes in, to lock down the opponent and then run your rotations accordingly.
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If you had read any of Brians answers in his posts on this subject you"d see how off base your are on some of your absurd statements
I hope so too! But the coach is not paid handsomely to hope. He is paid to produce, to make decisions that are best for the team. Making a coaching decision to play a guy 35 minutes because he's a senior leader and has paid his dues is putting the player before the team. There is no "for better or worse" situation here. I really like Ray, but let's not act like this is Steph Curry we're talking about.
Also, with an eye on the tourneys.. he could go off for 20 against Maryland and that does nothing to change the fact he has struggled mightily away from Mackey.
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Its been proven he doesnt NEED to score for PU to win. There are a lot of mouths to feed on this team, with our front line first and foremost, the add Cline,Mathias, Stephans and Ray becomes an afterthought for scoring. Yea its nice when he puts up some points also, but hes never going to be our 1,2,3,4,5,6 option -- he's there for a whole lot of other reasons some of you playstation coaches fail to understand----Keep in mind this is not just my opinion but also that of Brians and Coach Matt
If said "mouths to feed" are not scoring, then he indeed does NEED to score. If said opponent is scoring at will on Purdue and the game is played in the 70s/80s, he does indeed NEED to score.
Is he at best Purdue's third option on offense...no doubt about it...but there is no way that a guy that was a double digit scorer and who is capable of being a double digit scorer should go scoreless (or for two or four as he has done several previous times this year in Purdue losses) and play 30-plus minutes.
Look at his scoring in games that Purdue has lost and then try to justify your position (or CMP's or Brian's) that he does not need to score for Purdue to win.
Purdue has won games that he has not put up big offensive numbers, but that does not mean that he does not NEED to score for Purdue...it is not as if Purdue would have lost those games if he had scored.
The mere fact that you included "Stephans" in your mouths to feed category should have rendered your point moot, as I am not even sure the last time he actually scored a basket...but I am confident that he does not constitute a mouth to feed in his 3-4 minutes of game action on the occasions that he does play at the expense of Ray's 30-plus minutes of play.
Bottom line...his lack of being aggressive at the offensive end and scoring or getting to the line is a detriment to Purdue. It is not as though he is sacrificing his offense for the betterment of the team or so that others can score...he simply is not contributing in any fashion at one end of the floor, and I don't know that there is a single player in the country that is good enough to justify 30-plus minutes of play when they are a complete non-factor at one end of the floor entirely.
Some of these posts are based on having only our guys on the floor. Okay - 5 guys and no consideration of what the opponents decisde to take away or give you. WTF? Too many of you are used to coaching agianst the X-Box, LOL. Measuring Ray Davis game-to-game while disregarding the opponent's strategy will never yeild understandable results. Do you not see the game inside the game?
It was obvious that Izzo decided to cheat on defending Ray to help cover our post play. Ray made MSU bleed for doing that. Izzo was so stubborn that... wait, that is Painter's mantra. Well anyway, Izzo's strategy didn't work so good, so the next few coaches have D'd up Ray more substantially.
I am not an expert at this, but I think the opponents are now cheating on Bigggie, allowing him to get deep in the post, while his defender rolls over onto doubling our post. Our two post guys clog the middle by themselves. We don't look to pass often to Biggie so that worked for a game. In the Indiana game, we did pass into Biggie in the paint, countering this strategy. Biggie is a freshman and mishandled some of those feeds. Never the less, Ray was well defended for most of the game. So was Edwards.
No game plan is ever perfect. You just hope it gives you enough of an edge to win the game. Indiana's strategy was to defend, and hit a bunch of threes while we pounded the ball inside for two's. They hit 3's in the first half, we hit them in the second. Game was pretty even after that.
It was obvious that Izzo decided to cheat on defending Ray to help cover our post play. Ray made MSU bleed for doing that. Izzo was so stubborn that... wait, that is Painter's mantra. Well anyway, Izzo's strategy didn't work so good, so the next few coaches have D'd up Ray more substantially.
I am not an expert at this, but I think the opponents are now cheating on Bigggie, allowing him to get deep in the post, while his defender rolls over onto doubling our post. Our two post guys clog the middle by themselves. We don't look to pass often to Biggie so that worked for a game. In the Indiana game, we did pass into Biggie in the paint, countering this strategy. Biggie is a freshman and mishandled some of those feeds. Never the less, Ray was well defended for most of the game. So was Edwards.
No game plan is ever perfect. You just hope it gives you enough of an edge to win the game. Indiana's strategy was to defend, and hit a bunch of threes while we pounded the ball inside for two's. They hit 3's in the first half, we hit them in the second. Game was pretty even after that.
Yes, the juggernaut that is IU defense...THAT is what the issue was. Same for those stingy Michigan Wolverines...and the mighty Northwestern defense as well.Some of these posts are based on having only our guys on the floor. Okay - 5 guys and no consideration of what the opponents decisde to take away or give you. WTF? Too many of you are used to coaching agianst the X-Box, LOL. Measuring Ray Davis game-to-game while disregarding the opponent's strategy will never yeild understandable results. Do you not see the game inside the game?
It was obvious that Izzo decided to cheat on defending Ray to help cover our post play. Ray made MSU bleed for doing that. Izzo was so stubborn that... wait, that is Painter's mantra. Well anyway, Izzo's strategy didn't work so good, so the next few coaches have D'd up Ray more substantially.
I am not an expert at this, but I think the opponents are now cheating on Bigggie, allowing him to get deep in the post, while his defender rolls over onto doubling our post. Our two post guys clog the middle by themselves. We don't look to pass often to Biggie so that worked for a game. In the Indiana game, we did pass into Biggie in the paint, countering this strategy. Biggie is a freshman and mishandled some of those feeds. Never the less, Ray was well defended for most of the game. So was Edwards.
No game plan is ever perfect. You just hope it gives you enough of an edge to win the game. Indiana's strategy was to defend, and hit a bunch of threes while we pounded the ball inside for two's. They hit 3's in the first half, we hit them in the second. Game was pretty even after that.
Come on...I don't care who checked him, to go for 6 points in 3 games getting the minutes that he does is simply inexcusable and not a case of how he was guarded or who he was guarded by.
I have never countered the notion that Purdue's offense is set up to feed the post...but to suggest that Davis is not capable of making a basket, never mind two, in the course of nearly 35 minutes of action is a bit much for sure, particularly in that he is not being guarded by someone's best defender as he is hardly any sort of focus of the Purdue offense.
The game plan on Saturday night was more that imperfect...same for the one the Saturday prior in Ann Arbor...as for the assertion that the game on Saturday night was "pretty even" at any point is a bit much as well...the score was close in the end, but IU was by far the better team, executed much better, and should have won going away...there is no way that Purdue ever should have trailed in that game by the margin that it did.
I saw them not have to worry about davis. I saw him never shoot a free throw. I saw him put no pressure on the defense. I saw no steals or blocks for easy buckets. Every other starter torched iu. But ray was defended so well??? bs man. that's bs.Some of these posts are based on having only our guys on the floor. Okay - 5 guys and no consideration of what the opponents decisde to take away or give you. WTF? Too many of you are used to coaching agianst the X-Box, LOL. Measuring Ray Davis game-to-game while disregarding the opponent's strategy will never yeild understandable results. Do you not see the game inside the game?
It was obvious that Izzo decided to cheat on defending Ray to help cover our post play. Ray made MSU bleed for doing that. Izzo was so stubborn that... wait, that is Painter's mantra. Well anyway, Izzo's strategy didn't work so good, so the next few coaches have D'd up Ray more substantially.
I am not an expert at this, but I think the opponents are now cheating on Bigggie, allowing him to get deep in the post, while his defender rolls over onto doubling our post. Our two post guys clog the middle by themselves. We don't look to pass often to Biggie so that worked for a game. In the Indiana game, we did pass into Biggie in the paint, countering this strategy. Biggie is a freshman and mishandled some of those feeds. Never the less, Ray was well defended for most of the game. So was Edwards.
No game plan is ever perfect. You just hope it gives you enough of an edge to win the game. Indiana's strategy was to defend, and hit a bunch of threes while we pounded the ball inside for two's. They hit 3's in the first half, we hit them in the second. Game was pretty even after that.
In some respects, you are right in that he could have scored something in those games. However, don't discount the opponent's defense so dismisively. Both UM and IU have sufficient defense to shut down any player who can't make his own shot. We have done that to really good scoring opponents, so why would it be too much to think someone could do it to Ray? Besides, I don't think I saw very many plays run for Ray to score in any of those games.
Maybe he is too unselfish too. He may pass up a shot trying to feed another player, to his own detrement.
Maybe he is too unselfish too. He may pass up a shot trying to feed another player, to his own detrement.
6 points in 3 games is terrible. I mean, get an offensive rebound for a quick easy basket or something. I guess the question comes down to would you rather have Cline or Mathias out there instead? The defense at the 2 would go down but the potential for points would go up. On the other hand, its not like Cline or Mathias has been tearing it up offensively lately.
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1)OK I'm fine with leaving KS out of the equation that still leaves SIX others to shoot and should should before Ray
2) Like it or not, were built this year to score upfront as first option,second option and third
3)Didnt see any one bitching on his lack of offense when we win
4)We didnt loose the IU because of Rays offense, it was due to TO's, foul shooting (even when we had all four of their bigs with 4 fouls each) and rebounding and our other guys didnt score enough(obviously)
5)Ray held his guy to ZERO pts in 36 mins- he cant guard -nor is he capable of guarding all 5(meanwhile when Mathias came in and guarded Johnson -he went off for 6 pts in 2 minutes!!)
6)So you actually believe the games we lost was because Ray didnt score enough! Better check out our TO totals, shooting percentage and points in the paint on those losses, coach
7)Check out player avgs on most teams this year---One hell of a lot of them have at least one if not two as not big scoring threats much less even averaging 5-6 pts/game why the hell are they in the starting line up, coach
8)The game plan for sat was only imperfect to you as was michigans, because we lost and you can look back on 20/20 with your xbox coaching - had nothing to do with the fact that the other team may have had something to say about it
9)You fit your game around the players you have - and if you think the previous DPOY aint starting and his sole assignment is to shut someone down while you assign the other nine their roles--your delusional
10) I'm tired typing so I'll pass on the other 25 points
if he is healthy then i have no idea why he is not driving to the basket. he has had plenty of opportunities to do so. that is his strong suit. is he deciding not to shoot or is it painter. only the team knows
Guess what Ray? EVERY game is just as important as the next. Painter teams dont have the GK grit and determination.
When GK coached we had some bad teams late. BUT, when I watched a game I ALWAYS knew they would give it their ALL EVERY GAME. They had a chance to win every time they stepped on the floor regardless of how good the competition was. They fought, they clawed, they scratched, they left it all on the floor. You would be disappointed with a loss but not disappointed with effort. That focus needs to be there every game not just one. I am disappointed with this team and the lack of flexibility to adjust as a coach. AND quite frankly the offense is no fun to watch. Is it chemistry, a bad egg, coaching???? it is Painters JOB to put a good product on the floor. This might be some of the best talent he will ever have to assemble and have a big goose egg to show for it. You can count we will lay an egg in the BTT because we ALWAYS do and be a one and done in the tournament because we cannot assemble 2 good wins in a row. Rant over
It's not merely about points for me. Davis doesn't even look for his offense. As someone else said, he should at least be getting to the line, trying to make something out of nothing.
Also, this is subjective, but the offense didn't seem to flow as well when he's in. Maybe this is because he's hurt or maybe it's because other teams are sagging...I don't really care. The point is our offense looks better with cline or Mathias in instead. Does someone have PPP numbers to back this up? What about PPP numbers for opposing teams when he's in compared to when he's on the bench?
Also, this is subjective, but the offense didn't seem to flow as well when he's in. Maybe this is because he's hurt or maybe it's because other teams are sagging...I don't really care. The point is our offense looks better with cline or Mathias in instead. Does someone have PPP numbers to back this up? What about PPP numbers for opposing teams when he's in compared to when he's on the bench?
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