Play small, lose Big

[Born Boiler]

Playing four bigs in the first half – Kaufman-Renn, Furst, Burgess and Berg -- Purdue limited Sparty to 48-percent shooting and held even on the boards to keep the lead for over 11 minutes and close within 33-31 at intermission.

Playing one big for most of the second half, Purdue gave up 68-percent shooting while getting turned over 6-3 and outrebounded 12-10, quickly getting buried by 13 points and never again getting closer than four in a 75-66 embarrassment for a third straight loss.

It doesn’t take a genius to know basketball is a big man’s game – in this league, 7-footers can handle -- yet we see Purdue always resting hopes on a fairytale, this year’s being “Slow Drive and the Four Dwarfs.” And now the Big Ten’s preseason favorites are dead. Hi ho no mo.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Okay, I’ll admit I laughed at “Slow Drive and the Four Dwarfs”

 

[Born Boiler]

Okay, I’ll admit I laughed at “Slow Drive and the Four Dwarfs”

I really had to go a long way for that one.

 

[qazplm]

Okay, I’ll admit I laughed at “Slow Drive and the Four Dwarfs”

Certainly has us all Grumpy

 

[Boilerfla]

DJ was a big loss this year, a few L’s might have been W’s

Add the 4/5 portal man next year and DJ, next year good shape, plus West, Benter 3 machine specialist(maybe)

 

[Poprudy]

Imagine this team with DJ and Catchings. This year could have been totally different. If, we would have had both next year. Probably fighting for a NC.

 

[PaBoiler78]

DJ was a big loss this year, a few L’s might have been W’s

Add the 4/5 portal man next year and DJ, next year good shape, plus West, Benter 3 machine specialist(maybe)

I think West RS's being everyone comes back

 

[Born Boiler]

Imagine this team with DJ and Catchings. This year could have been totally different. If, we would have had both next year. Probably fighting for a NC.

I’m just imagining last night and playing the same rotation in the second half as the first half.

 

[Born Boiler]

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Four Times.

 

[Wolegib]

Imagine this team with DJ and Catchings. This year could have been totally different. If, we would have had both next year. Probably fighting for a NC.

Losing catchings was a huge loss because he filled a niche we don’t have. And the timing of his decision killed us

 

[Dryfly88]

Losing catchings was a huge loss because he filled a niche we don’t have. And the timing of his decision killed us

What exactly have you seen from him at BYU that you think he would Have "filled" for us? Please be specific.

 

[Poprudy]

What exactly have you seen from him at BYU that you think he would Have "filled" for us? Please be specific.

Probably starter minutes. If not, at least an offensive threat off the bench. He's a freshman avg. more than Myles and Cam and they are supposed to be contributing big for us.

 

[Born Boiler]

Catchings and Jacobsen didn’t play in the first half today when we took a 37-25 lead. Kaufman-Renn, Furst, Berg and Burgess all did, with Furst’s re-entry bringing an immediate 12-0 run to flip the lead from down 5 to up 7. In the second half, Berg and Burgess didn’t play, while Kaufman-Renn and Furst were usually stuck solo with four smalls, and we got outscored 48-18 up to the last minute. Two different approaches, two different results, same game. Fourth straight loss, each on second-half collapses using the “small” lineup.

 

[Dryfly88]

Probably starter minutes. If not, at least an offensive threat off the bench. He's a freshman avg. more than Myles and Cam and they are supposed to be contributing big for us.

Serious question: How many BYU games have you watched? You quote his points average and yet with that his minutes have reduced to the point he barely played in a blowout of Kansas. He's getting fewer minutes as the season has gone on. When I've watched them play, he camps out in the corner and once in a while get the ball and shoots it. I just don't see what he would have brought to us. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[pubill]

Losing catchings was a huge loss because he filled a niche we don’t have. And the timing of his decision killed us

He can’t even play at BYU

 

[02BoilerUp]

He can’t even play at BYU

Right! Colvin plays all day before Catchings unless KC can do something for us that he hasn't shown in games that I've watched. No defense, no ability to put the ball on the floor and take it to the rim and low motor.

 

[Wolegib]

Catchings would have offered Purdue a small forward to play the 3 rather than using a guard to play that position.

And to be honest, I haven’t seen anything from Catchings in his play at BYU that would justify my belief in him.

I do know Purdue would have been a lot better if he had never signed and allowed us to recruit another forward from high school or the portal. By quitting when he did, he left Painter no opportunity to recruit anybody to fill the role he had projected Catchings to play.

There are many here who claim Catchings was and is a cancer. There are many others who judge him based only by the stats he is putting up at BYU. Gillis isn’t putting up great stats either, but he fills a role at Duke.

While I liked Catchings, I’m not sure what role he would have filled at Purdue. And maybe that’s why he left. I personally saw Catchings as a nice tall 3. I thought he could fill that position and be a nice matchup against the other 3s that are forwards. I could see him as a 4, but I could never see Tkr as a center. So if he played the 4. It would either be as a backup or Purdue would have played small ball with Tkr at center and Catchings at the 4. And to be honest, I don’t see playing small as a winning solution.

So I saw Catchings as a player without a position at Purdue. I thought when painter was recruiting Catchings he would change his philosophy About using 3 guards . But I was wrong. Painter still wanted to play 3 guards. That probably led Catchings to wonder what position do I play? So he left.

As for Catchings playing at byu, he had zero practice with that team before they started playing. He spent the summer practicing at Purdue. I didn’t choose BYU, Catchings did. I’m not sure if it was a good fit. I don’t even know who was starting at BYU when Catchings arrived. Did BYU have a hole that Catchings could fill? I don’t know. I have noticed he put up some nice stats when given a chance to play 20+ minutes. I can’t tell you if he’s playing the 3 or the 4 at BYU. I also can’t tell you if byu plays a 3 guard offense or if they play a zone defense. All I really know is that their entire coaching staff has connections to the NBA and 18 year old recruits like that.

It looks as if Catchings made a bad decision and he now faces a wasted year at BYU. I’m unsure if his season would have been better this year if he stayed at Purdue. If Jacobsen wasn’t injured, Would Catchings have started at the three instead of Cox? Maybe, maybe not.

My lone closing thought is Purdue has too many guards. We will have a red shirt guard to add to the mix next year and we add west and ertel the following year. I believe we desperately need to add some height, size and talent to the three position.

A couple of years ago if you read my posts when we were recruiting first and tkr, I wanted Furst to play the 4 and Tkr to play the 3. I really hate the concept of the 3 guard system. I’d rather have a forward who can shoot the 3 at the 3 position than a guard. I believe a guard at the 3 results in unfavorable mismatches.



I also believe Smith is not tired. He’s just not able to succeed against taller more physical guards.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

Catchings would have offered Purdue a small forward to play the 3 rather than using a guard to play that position.

And to be honest, I haven’t seen anything from Catchings in his play at BYU that would justify my belief in him.

I do know Purdue would have been a lot better if he had never signed and allowed us to recruit another forward from high school or the portal. By quitting when he did, he left Painter no opportunity to recruit anybody to fill the role he had projected Catchings to play.

There are many here who claim Catchings was and is a cancer. There are many others who judge him based only by the stats he is putting up at BYU. Gillis isn’t putting up great stats either, but he fills a role at Duke.

While I liked Catchings, I’m not sure what role he would have filled at Purdue. And maybe that’s why he left. I personally saw Catchings as a nice tall 3. I thought he could fill that position and be a nice matchup against the other 3s that are forwards. I could see him as a 4, but I could never see Tkr as a center. So if he played the 4. It would either be as a backup or Purdue would have played small ball with Tkr at center and Catchings at the 4. And to be honest, I don’t see playing small as a winning solution.

So I saw Catchings as a player without a position at Purdue. I thought when painter was recruiting Catchings he would change his philosophy About using 3 guards . But I was wrong. Painter still wanted to play 3 guards. That probably led Catchings to wonder what position do I play? So he left.

As for Catchings playing at byu, he had zero practice with that team before they started playing. He spent the summer practicing at Purdue. I didn’t choose BYU, Catchings did. I’m not sure if it was a good fit. I don’t even know who was starting at BYU when Catchings arrived. Did BYU have a hole that Catchings could fill? I don’t know. I have noticed he put up some nice stats when given a chance to play 20+ minutes. I can’t tell you if he’s playing the 3 or the 4 at BYU. I also can’t tell you if byu plays a 3 guard offense or if they play a zone defense. All I really know is that their entire coaching staff has connections to the NBA and 18 year old recruits like that.

It looks as if Catchings made a bad decision and he now faces a wasted year at BYU. I’m unsure if his season would have been better this year if he stayed at Purdue. If Jacobsen wasn’t injured, Would Catchings have started at the three instead of Cox? Maybe, maybe not.

My lone closing thought is Purdue has too many guards. We will have a red shirt guard to add to the mix next year and we add west and ertel the following year. I believe we desperately need to add some height, size and talent to the three position.

A couple of years ago if you read my posts when we were recruiting first and tkr, I wanted Furst to play the 4 and Tkr to play the 3. I really hate the concept of the 3 guard system. I’d rather have a forward who can shoot the 3 at the 3 position than a guard. I believe a guard at the 3 results in unfavorable mismatches.



I also believe Smith is not tired. He’s just not able to succeed against taller more physical guards.

He did not spend the summer practicing with Purdue. He was on campus for a hot second and then left then tried to come back. If anything he has shown Purdue dodged a bullet with him imo.

 

[Poprudy]

Serious question: How many BYU games have you watched? You quote his points average and yet with that his minutes have reduced to the point he barely played in a blowout of Kansas. He's getting fewer minutes as the season has gone on. When I've watched them play, he camps out in the corner and once in a while get the ball and shoots it. I just don't see what he would have brought to us. But maybe I'm wrong.

I just watched them beat Arizona (probably 4-5 games) He has a nice looking shot. I just think his offensive game would have saw minutes on the floor at 6'9".

We have underdeveloped 4's right now and we haven't seen much out of that position all year. I'm sorry, but we need help at that position severely or move TKR back to his rightful position and bring in bigger 3's along with DJ.

 

[Born Boiler]

Common theme for the four-game meltdown with same personnel but different usage by halves …

Halftime Scores …
Purdue 37, Michigan 35
Purdue 37, Wisconsin 36
Michigan State 33, Purdue 31
Purdue 37, indinia 25

Second-Half Scoring …
Michigan 40 (32 in last 10 minutes), Purdue 36
Wisconsin 58, Purdue 47
Michigan State 42, Purdue 35
indinia 48, Purdue 21

Second-Half Shooting …
Purdue 47, Michigan 42
Wisconsin 72, Purdue 55
Michigan State 68, Purdue 50
indinia 64, Purdue 30

Purdue used three or all four of its bigs (6-9 or taller) in each first half against the consistently bigger opponents, led at halftime of each or close to it, then used mostly one big at a time in second half though foul troubles worsened from playing solo, leaving all lanes open to the basket, leading to yet another late runaway loss.

Second-half small ball lost the Big Ten, taking Purdue from first to sixth with four straight lookalike losses. Not that we hadn’t seen this four-guard short show before. Time to man up.

 

[tjreese]

I just watched them beat Arizona (probably 4-5 games) He has a nice looking shot. I just think his offensive game would have saw minutes on the floor at 6'9".

We have underdeveloped 4's right now and we haven't seen much out of that position all year. I'm sorry, but we need help at that position severely or move TKR back to his rightful position and bring in bigger 3's along with DJ.

Haven't seen him in college. With his head on...he could fill teh 2,3 or 4 depending on the other players. He probably isn't happy at BYU and won't surprise any of us if he is in the portal.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I just watched them beat Arizona (probably 4-5 games) He has a nice looking shot. I just think his offensive game would have saw minutes on the floor at 6'9".

We have underdeveloped 4's right now and we haven't seen much out of that position all year. I'm sorry, but we need help at that position severely or move TKR back to his rightful position and bring in bigger 3's along with DJ.

Agreed.

I’d suspect TKR will play the 4 with DJ next year at the 5. However, TKR will be the main guy down low on offense.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Common theme for the four-game meltdown with same personnel but different usage by halves …

Halftime Scores …
Purdue 37, Michigan 35
Purdue 37, Wisconsin 36
Michigan State 33, Purdue 31
Purdue 37, indinia 25

Second-Half Scoring …
Michigan 40 (32 in last 10 minutes), Purdue 36
Wisconsin 58, Purdue 47
Michigan State 42, Purdue 35
indinia 48, Purdue 21

Second-Half Shooting …
Purdue 47, Michigan 42
Wisconsin 72, Purdue 55
Michigan State 68, Purdue 50
indinia 64, Purdue 30

Purdue used three or all four of its bigs (6-9 or taller) in each first half against the consistently bigger opponents, led at halftime of each or close to it, then used mostly one big at a time in second half though foul troubles worsened from playing solo, leaving all lanes open to the basket, leading to yet another late runaway loss.

Second-half small ball lost the Big Ten, taking Purdue from first to sixth with four straight lookalike losses. Not that we hadn’t seen this four-guard short show before. Time to man up.

Yeah that’s been the weird thing during this losing streak. We’ve been up double digits or close to it, in the first half of each of these games. We have come out flat every single time to start the second half. Which is something that usually didn’t happen. I’m not sure if we aren’t adjusting or the other team has better adjustments, or maybe we are just tired?

I couldn’t understand why we didn’t just let iu shoot from the outside all game? We played up in them in the perimeter and allowed them to score at will in the paint. Like, they are BAD shooting from the outside…we should have been 3-4 ft off their shooters. Anyways, hopefully, over the next few weeks we get rest and confidence back and make a run in the tourney (we are due for a surprise run)!

 

[tjreese]

Yeah that’s been the weird thing during this losing streak. We’ve been up double digits or close to it, in the first half of each of these games. We have come out flat every single time to start the second half. Which is something that usually didn’t happen. I’m not sure if we aren’t adjusting or the other team has better adjustments, or maybe we are just tired?

I couldn’t understand why we didn’t just let iu shoot from the outside all game? We played up in them in the perimeter and allowed them to score at will in the paint. Like, they are BAD shooting from the outside…we should have been 3-4 ft off their shooters. Anyways, hopefully, over the next few weeks we get rest and confidence back and make a run in the tourney (we are due for a surprise run)!

Matt did say that too much worry at the arc with people you want to shoot and how many times did the shot fake end up with a drive to the basket. If you don't turn IU over and with their spacing it was hard, then much more sag from the perimeter is needed. Missing behind the arc leads to less confidence where as scoring at will in the lane leads to confidence. Now if they kill it behind the arc...then that is their day most likely even if a change later in the game as far as extending the D takes place. Still, as you said Purdue has not been very good the 2nd half and that is with 4 different teams even though Matt that has been good in the second half mostly.

The team meeting is potentially good and can result in more ownership by each and understanding and/or reconciliation of other's concerns as well. It was needed...

 

[Gman544]

Purdue needs a plan when they face teams with six five/ six guards and they can't get their normal three point shots off or if they do they tend to be off balance. When they think they are open and then they are not it throws the whole possession off. A number of teams Purdue faced in the losing streak had big guards, including IU.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Common theme for the four-game meltdown with same personnel but different usage by halves …

Halftime Scores …
Purdue 37, Michigan 35
Purdue 37, Wisconsin 36
Michigan State 33, Purdue 31
Purdue 37, indinia 25

Second-Half Scoring …
Michigan 40 (32 in last 10 minutes), Purdue 36
Wisconsin 58, Purdue 47
Michigan State 42, Purdue 35
indinia 48, Purdue 21

Second-Half Shooting …
Purdue 47, Michigan 42
Wisconsin 72, Purdue 55
Michigan State 68, Purdue 50
indinia 64, Purdue 30

Purdue used three or all four of its bigs (6-9 or taller) in each first half against the consistently bigger opponents, led at halftime of each or close to it, then used mostly one big at a time in second half though foul troubles worsened from playing solo, leaving all lanes open to the basket, leading to yet another late runaway loss.

Second-half small ball lost the Big Ten, taking Purdue from first to sixth with four straight lookalike losses. Not that we hadn’t seen this four-guard short show before. Time to man up.

I’ll boil it down. Our defense sucks when we don’t have BOTH TKR and Caleb in the game.

Need BOTH to stay out of foul trouble.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Agreed.

I’d suspect TKR will play the 4 with DJ next year at the 5. However, TKR will be the main guy down low on offense.

We really need the big opposite TKR to be a 3 point shooter.

 

[msfboiler3]

I’ll boil it down. Our defense sucks when we don’t have BOTH TKR and Caleb in the game.

Need BOTH to stay out of foul trouble.

We really needed furst and colvin to step up this season. Especially after jacobson went down. Heide would have been icing on the cake. They really havent improved at a rate that you would expect at a developmental program. Colvin and heide have time but need to get moving.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

We really need the big opposite TKR to be a 3 point shooter.

Yeah agree there…DJ and RB have shown they can hit them. But can they hit them at a high % on decent volume?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Yeah agree there…DJ and RB have shown they can hit them. But can they hit them at a high % on decent volume?

I think you need a more proven commodity there.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I think you need a more proven commodity there.

Yeah would be great to bring in a guy from portal that has shown he can do that.

 

[Poprudy]

We really need the big opposite TKR to be a 3 point shooter.

Exactly, why losing Catchings sucked. He would have been a nice 6'9" shooter that at least has some length to him. It would have helped guarding the perimeter and post. We just don't have that right now.

 

[proudopete]

Exactly, why losing Catchings sucked. He would have been a nice 6'9" shooter that at least has some length to him. It would have helped guarding the perimeter and post. We just don't have that right now.

Catching doesn’t guard anything

 

[Poprudy]

Catching doesn’t guard anything

It appears Cam and Myles doesn't either. So, I would rather have 6'9" and lengthy.

 

[proudopete]

It appears Cam and Myles doesn't either. So, I would rather have 6'9" and lengthy.

Not sure what you’re watching but Myles is good defensively and Heide is out of position.

 

[Poprudy]

Not sure what you’re watching but Myles is good defensively and Heide is out of position.

I've watched Myles get dribbled by many times. I just feel like he's not quick enough laterally or he seems to be unbalanced a lot or doesn't take good angled steps. IMO

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

It appears Cam and Myles doesn't either. So, I would rather have 6'9" and lengthy.

Have you been watching this season with Myles or no? Cam has also been decent, especially as a someone off the bench to guard the 3 or 4…

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I've watched Myles get dribbled by many times. I just feel like he's not quick enough laterally or he seems to be unbalanced a lot or doesn't take good angled steps. IMO

You must be watching a different game…maybe you’re watching with TwinDegrees

And if that’s what you have observed, then you would see it with Loyer, Harris and even smith. You have seen that with them, right?

 

[Poprudy]

You must be watching a different game…maybe you’re watching with TwinDegrees

And if that’s what you have observed, then you would see it with Loyer, Harris and even smith. You have seen that with them, right?

No, and yes, this team has been lost on defense. You just can't say one particular person on this team is really great at defense.

I'm not quite sure what you guys are watching besides our tails getting kicked-in lately, but keep stating Myles is a good/great defender.

 

[Poprudy]

Have you been watching this season with Myles or no? Cam has also been decent, especially as a someone off the bench to guard the 3 or 4…

The 1-4 (mainly the 1-3) have been getting killed during our losing streak. You have been watching right? I mean such great defense in the Wisky game to give up 72 from the 1-3 positions.....seriously!!???