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Paying college players

my other point. I was under the impression that the majority of coaches are paid by booster clubs and alumni clubs and outside companies rather than the actual university. Are the Purdue coaches paid by Purdue? or paid by the John Purdue Club? if they are not paid by the university, can they actually be considered or compared with other university employees?

I don't know if it's true or not, but it's been reported that all those big money contracts that SEC coaches receive come from private alumni booster clubs.

My point is the universities of all those highly paid coaches are not the ones responsible for paying those coaches. and if the players want money and want to be paid. they should go to those booster clubs who pay those coaches rather than the university.

My son is a non-scholarship track athlete. he receives a lot of stuff. each year, he receives 5 pairs of shoes . each shoe is valued at over $100. he receives free medical care. he receives access to free weight room facilities. He trains with Olympic athletes and Olympic coaches. he receives a lot of clothing. he receives a lot of free food at his practice facility. he receives a lot of free stuff, and I know the football players receive even more.

When I look at the football players, isn't their coach also sort of an agent with contacts to the pros? When a player has a pro day, isn't the school providing marketing for that player for free? I have to pay money to a dietician to prescribe a healthy diet for my diabetes. Don't athletes receive that advice and diet plan for free? Going to a dietician is not cheap. receiving free healthcare is not cheap. Going to a state of the art weight building facility is not cheap. I would venture that Purdue's weight facility is better than a membership to Gold's gym. and players receive front row VIP tickets to all the games and get free jerseys with their numbers on. Those jerseys are worth a lot of money. and people pay a lot of money to get VIP passes to stand on the sidelines to watch games. There are a lot of services athletes receive that real people would pay a lot of money for.

I'd like to have a marketing firm prepare films of my teaching expertise with highlights, and distribute those highlights to prospective companies, and conduct a pro day for me inviting prospective employers to check out my skills. How much would that cost? . An athlete gets that for free.

there are so many other things an athlete receives. I'd sure love to have a nice whirlpool after every day at work. and a massage. I'd love to travel around the world and have a nice vacation to San Francisco. the athlete gets that vacation for free. how much will the average fan have to spend going to the Foster farms bowl for the same period of time? how much did the average fan pay to go to Atlantis and stay for the duration? and athletes get free tickets. how much does the average fan pay for BIG 10 and NCAA tourney tickets?

Sure, athletes don't get paid as much as coaches do. But they do get paid. They get paid a lot more for things people take for granted. And they get paid a lot more than a person without a college education would receive. With all their free benefits, and throw in room and board and a college education, at some colleges, an athlete could be making $50,000 a year which is pretty good pay for an entry level position without a college degree. Show me another job that pays that well. And if you believe coaches get paid a lot of money, maybe you need to throw away your dreams of getting an engineering degree, and pursue a sports administration degree instead and become a coach or AD .
 
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BoilerDaddy said:
You are contributing to the contracts of Brohm and Painter. On one hand, I think that’s great because I like both coaches and their staffs, but that is where a significant percentage of the budget is going.
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So? My professors got paid a lot of money too? They are employees of the university. Much different relationship.
 
BoilerDeac said:
Lmao picking a fight? Which of my words were fighting words? Just because we have different opinions doesn’t mean I was trying to instigate anything.
Click to expand...

Your accusation below:
"and you act as if these athletes were just handed the opportunity to play in college. You don't think the majority of them earned that right with hard work and dedication?"

Verdict:
Your above statement is accusatory based on your misinterpretation of my statement that was saying not everyone has the opportunity, had nothing to do if they deserved it but that is the platform you chose to attack mine.....thus your statement is an aggressive act to start conflict.

Anyways doesn't matter just keep being a Deac.....back at ya with the LMAO.

I rest my case your honor.....next.

Boiler Up!
 
PU52Chevy said:
Your accusation below:
"and you act as if these athletes were just handed the opportunity to play in college. You don't think the majority of them earned that right with hard work and dedication?"

Verdict:
Your above statement is accusatory based on your misinterpretation of my statement that was saying not everyone has the opportunity, had nothing to do if they deserved it but that is the platform you chose to attack mine.....thus your statement is an aggressive act to start conflict.

Anyways doesn't matter just keep being a Deac.....back at ya with the LMAO.

I rest my case your honor.....next.

Boiler Up!
Click to expand...

I literally asked you a question, and you took it as accusatory. I'm sorry you took it that way!

NEXT!
 
Wolegib said:
two points.

When I attended Purdue, I ate a lot of popcorn. the popcorn was free. there was some guy doing research on making almost every kernel pop. and he would put the popcorn in a trash can outside his lab in the life science building. I found out later that guy with the glasses was actually Orville Redenbacher. he used Purdue research facilities to make his popping corn. As somebody who ate his pop corn, I feel I was part of his experiments. Should I be entitled to receive a monetary stipend from him because I contributed to his Purdue research?

I also worked for a biology professor who was doing research on limb regeneration. She did research on chickens in their embryo stage and newts. Her research was geared at paving the way for potential human tissue regrowth. Should I receive monetary compensation for her efforts?

My mother in law worked for a cancer research lab at Purdue. Should she be entitled to receive the grants their research received?
Click to expand...

Orville's at it again!!

giphy.gif


giphy.gif
 
BoilerBiker said:
im not in the pay for play camp,
but i think that is primarily only true for the non revenue sports. I think a majority of guys going into power 5 conference football and basketball have aspirations of playing pro. especially basketball when i think of some of our former guys like keifer, ware, mcknight, dillon who could even play a few years of pro ball overseas.



I think i may be in a similar boat.
while the pay disparity may even reflect that of other industries/corporate america, having coaches make multiple times the money of professors and administration, just seems counter to the preached message of student before athlete, academics before athletics.
Click to expand...


So, no paying coaches, or you want to cap the amount a coach makes in order to maintain the traditional student/athlete model?

If the former, who's going to coach?

If the latter, who decides that amount?

If you're okay with the coaches making the current market rate, what amount crosses that line? In other words, when was that line crossed?
 
Wolegib said:
two points.

When I attended Purdue, I ate a lot of popcorn. the popcorn was free. there was some guy doing research on making almost every kernel pop. and he would put the popcorn in a trash can outside his lab in the life science building. I found out later that guy with the glasses was actually Orville Redenbacher. he used Purdue research facilities to make his popping corn. As somebody who ate his pop corn, I feel I was part of his experiments. Should I be entitled to receive a monetary stipend from him because I contributed to his Purdue research?

I also worked for a biology professor who was doing research on limb regeneration. She did research on chickens in their embryo stage and newts. Her research was geared at paving the way for potential human tissue regrowth. Should I receive monetary compensation for her efforts?

My mother in law worked for a cancer research lab at Purdue. Should she be entitled to receive the grants their research received?
Click to expand...


Hammer, meet nail. Nail, meet hammer.
 
Wolegib said:
my other point. I was under the impression that the majority of coaches are paid by booster clubs and alumni clubs and outside companies rather than the actual university. Are the Purdue coaches paid by Purdue? or paid by the John Purdue Club? if they are not paid by the university, can they actually be considered or compared with other university employees?

I don't know if it's true or not, but it's been reported that all those big money contracts that SEC coaches receive come from private alumni booster clubs.

My point is the universities of all those highly paid coaches are not the ones responsible for paying those coaches. and if the players want money and want to be paid. they should go to those booster clubs who pay those coaches rather than the university.

My son is a non-scholarship track athlete. he receives a lot of stuff. each year, he receives 5 pairs of shoes . each shoe is valued at over $100. he receives free medical care. he receives access to free weight room facilities. He trains with Olympic athletes and Olympic coaches. he receives a lot of clothing. he receives a lot of free food at his practice facility. he receives a lot of free stuff, and I know the football players receive even more.

When I look at the football players, isn't their coach also sort of an agent with contacts to the pros? When a player has a pro day, isn't the school providing marketing for that player for free? I have to pay money to a dietician to prescribe a healthy diet for my diabetes. Don't athletes receive that advice and diet plan for free? Going to a dietician is not cheap. receiving free healthcare is not cheap. Going to a state of the art weight building facility is not cheap. I would venture that Purdue's weight facility is better than a membership to Gold's gym. and players receive front row VIP tickets to all the games and get free jerseys with their numbers on. Those jerseys are worth a lot of money. and people pay a lot of money to get VIP passes to stand on the sidelines to watch games. There are a lot of services athletes receive that real people would pay a lot of money for.

I'd like to have a marketing firm prepare films of my teaching expertise with highlights, and distribute those highlights to prospective companies, and conduct a pro day for me inviting prospective employers to check out my skills. How much would that cost? . An athlete gets that for free.

there are so many other things an athlete receives. I'd sure love to have a nice whirlpool after every day at work. and a massage. I'd love to travel around the world and have a nice vacation to San Francisco. the athlete gets that vacation for free. how much will the average fan have to spend going to the Foster farms bowl for the same period of time? how much did the average fan pay to go to Atlantis and stay for the duration? and athletes get free tickets. how much does the average fan pay for BIG 10 and NCAA tourney tickets?

Sure, athletes don't get paid as much as coaches do. But they do get paid. They get paid a lot more for things people take for granted. And they get paid a lot more than a person without a college education would receive. With all their free benefits, and throw in room and board and a college education, at some colleges, an athlete could be making $50,000 a year which is pretty good pay for an entry level position without a college degree. Show me another job that pays that well. And if you believe coaches get paid a lot of money, maybe you need to throw away your dreams of getting an engineering degree, and pursue a sports administration degree instead and become a coach or AD .
Click to expand...

This whole argument of, "the coaches make so much money, the disparity is so great, the athletes should be paid," is nothing more than the envy argument. Somebody gets some level of $$ so it's unfair to someone else.

it's a loser's argument.
 
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BoilerDaddy said:
That’s not how capitalism works. The life time earnings is not relevant. Nobody pays $2.8 million for a college education. That’s like saying that the value of a bond is the sum of it’s yields over its lifetime as opposed to the market price today. The value is what it is selling for today.
Click to expand...
I would argue that the bond's value also includes the sum of its yields, but you have to discount the no-risk rate, which effectively cancels out the yields. NPV
 
Purdue85 said:
So, no paying coaches, or you want to cap the amount a coach makes in order to maintain the traditional student/athlete model?

If the former, who's going to coach?

If the latter, who decides that amount?

If you're okay with the coaches making the current market rate, what amount crosses that line? In other words, when was that line crossed?
Click to expand...

players -
no wage for playing, no change.

coaches -
pay them whatever they can negotiate, no change.

I just find the ncaa marketing of student first athlete second, academics before athletics, to ring rather hollow.

for major colleges, football & basketball >= academics in terms of:
- coaches making multiple times that of top professors, admin.
- money spent and frequency of spending on athletic buildings/infrastructure
- players leaving school early to play pro
- most players of power 5 schools having a goal of being pro athlete first, pro something else second (and many are successful as seen by non-star bball examples earlier)
- some players get paid under the table anyway, with lax rule enforcement
- academic fraud like north carolina has little or actually zero consequence for athletics
- even mitch daniel's opinion on athletic spending made a complete turnaround
 
BoilerBiker said:
players -
no wage for playing, no change.

coaches -
pay them whatever they can negotiate, no change.

I just find the ncaa marketing of student first athlete second, academics before athletics, to ring rather hollow.

for major colleges, football & basketball >= academics in terms of:
- coaches making multiple times that of top professors, admin.
- money spent and frequency of spending on athletic buildings/infrastructure
- players leaving school early to play pro
- most players of power 5 schools having a goal of being pro athlete first, pro something else second (and many are successful as seen by non-star bball examples earlier)
- some players get paid under the table anyway, with lax rule enforcement
- academic fraud like north carolina has little or actually zero consequence for athletics
- even mitch daniel's opinion on athletic spending made a complete turnaround
Click to expand...

This still makes no sense to me.

What do the 'perfessers' have to do with anything? Are they not being paid according to their abilities? Their value? Their . . . (dare I say it??!) . . . their . . . "prevailing market value"???

Students always have and always will leave school before graduation to earn a living. Student/athletes should not be held to another standard or expectation. Their dreams are no different, whether they're pursuing a career as an I.T. developer (Gates, et al), or a football player.

This discussion/debate has nothing to do with the aspirations of student/athletes. Nothing whatsoever.

And, if players/coaches/administrators/boosters pay players 'under the table', it's no excuse to jettison the rules and say, "what the hell . . . let's pay 'em all!" Enforce the friggin' rules.

Academic fraud? Again, enforce the rules. It's not a reason to pay players. Quite the contrary! It's a reason to play by the rules!

And I'm not sure why I should care about Mitch Daniels' opinion on athletic spending. I care about what's right and what's wrong, as it relates to paying amateur athletes who are at a university to earn a degree.
 
Purdue85 said:
I care about what's right and what's wrong, as it relates to paying amateur athletes who are at a university to earn a degree.
Click to expand...

again, I am not advocating change in pay for either players or coaches.

simply disagree that many football/bball athletes in power 5 schools are there for a degree first.

as you stated... "Students always have and always will leave school before graduation to earn a living."
so I agree with your statement, rather than the ncaa college marketing of academics before athletics. the pros/$ take precedent over the degree/academics. and colleges have chosen to spend and place an emphasis on these sports. was just pointing out the same as well.
 
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boilernuke said:
I would argue that the bond's value also includes the sum of its yields, but you have to discount the no-risk rate, which effectively cancels out the yields. NPV
Click to expand...
Sure, but the market determines the discount rate when bonds are bought and sold. One could back into the market’s accepted NPV calculation based on the market price.

The value of my bond portfolio at any given time is determined by market price.
 
boilernuke said:
I would argue that the bond's value also includes the sum of its yields, but you have to discount the no-risk rate, which effectively cancels out the yields. NPV
Click to expand...
Sure, but the market determines the discount rate when bonds are bought and sold. One could back into the market’s accepted NPV calculation based on the market price.

The value of my bond portfolio at any given time is determined by market price.
 
BoilerDaddy said:
Sure, but the market determines the discount rate when bonds are bought and sold. One could back into the market’s accepted NPV calculation based on the market price.

The value of my bond portfolio at any given time is determined by market price.
Click to expand...


so if you were just given $100,000 , would you invest it in tax sensitive bonds or risky small cap funds?
 
BoilerBiker said:
again, I am not advocating change in pay for either players or coaches.

simply disagree that many football/bball athletes in power 5 schools are there for a degree first.

as you stated... "Students always have and always will leave school before graduation to earn a living."
so I agree with your statement, rather than the ncaa college marketing of academics before athletics. the pros/$ take precedent over the degree/academics. and colleges have chosen to spend and place an emphasis on these sports. was just pointing out the same as well.
Click to expand...

Okay. But, it's irrelevant why they're there.

If they're not there for an education, that's on them.
 
Wolegib said:
so if you were just given $100,000 , would you invest it in tax sensitive bonds or risky small cap funds?
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with anything? What is relevant is that I wouldn’t pay more than market value for either.
 
BoilerDaddy said:
What does this have to do with anything? What is relevant is that I wouldn’t pay more than market value for either.
Click to expand...


you started going off subject talking about bonds. I was just trying to make conversation. tax sensitive bonds are supposedly municipal bonds that are not taxable. their return isn't great, but you don't have to pay taxes on them. Sorry to interrupt your discussion about bonds.
 
Wolegib said:
you started going off subject talking about bonds. I was just trying to make conversation. tax sensitive bonds are supposedly municipal bonds that are not taxable. their return isn't great, but you don't have to pay taxes on them. Sorry to interrupt your discussion about bonds.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, the bond discussion was relevant, at least in my mind, to the value of a scholarship. If the reasons for that aren’t obvious, then it’s probably a bad analogy for this audience and I’ll just drop it.

Simply put, in my mind, a scholarship that pays X dollars a year is worth no more than X dollars a year, regardless of whether X is $500 or $50,000. That’s how I saw it when my kids received scholarship offers and that’s how other families see it as well.
 
BoilerDaddy said:
Believe it or not, the bond discussion was relevant, at least in my mind, to the value of a scholarship. If the reasons for that aren’t obvious, then it’s probably a bad analogy for this audience and I’ll just drop it.

Simply put, in my mind, a scholarship that pays X dollars a year is worth no more than X dollars a year, regardless of whether X is $500 or $50,000. That’s how I saw it when my kids received scholarship offers and that’s how other families see it as well.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting thought.

Is the issue what the scholarship pays, or the value of what you get with the scholarship that you DON'T have to pay for?

Let's take a different asset: a luxury home. Let's say I can buy that home today for $100,000, but in 40 years it will have a market value of $2,800,000. On the other hand, if I am able to make a deal whereby I put my own effort into helping build it, with zero (or maybe a little) out-of-pocket, in 40 years isn't the value of that home still $2,800,000?

That's a significant difference, especially when you take into account the time value of money!

EDIT: That's not just the time value of money on the value of the home (as that's built into the growth in value), but the time value of money for the $100,000 I didn't have to spend! To be clear, that's something very few families factor in, but has very real implications in their ability to continue to build wealth and enjoy that wealth in the future. In other words, If I don't have to spend that $100,000, and instead I can fund my retirement with that money, who's better off? Again, most people do not factor in opportunity cost, time value of money, and other quite basic economic principles, but they're significant factors, nonetheless!
 
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