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OT: NCAA says players can make money on their image.

Tommaker

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Dec 11, 2002
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Does this not destroy every current rule they have on boosters? ND CEO wants to buy his employees (all 1000 of them) company shirts with Player A's name on them. Bama message board starts a counter on how many shirts they'll sell for a recruit if he signs.

meanwhile, Frank Kendrick is giving a player a car ride and the BB gets the Death Penalty.
 
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Pretty much. I don't see any way for the NCAA to hinder the flow of money from boosters to recruits now (as if that was a priority to begin with). This is the formal end of amateurism in D1.
 
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Does this not destroy every current rule they have on boosters? ND CEO wants to buy his employees (all 1000 of them) company shirts with Player A's name on them. Bama message board starts a counter on how many shirts they'll sell for a recruit if he signs.

meanwhile, Frank Kendrick is giving a player a car ride and the BB gets the Death Penalty.
They'll likely put a rule in place that doesn't allow boosters and such to get involved. I think it'll end up being that a player can go work camps in the offseason and profit off that. For example: During the summer, Rondale is invited to work 5-6 WR camps where he is able to make a decent amount of money given his stature in the game right now. It benefits that individual running the camp while Rondale is able to use his ability to make some money for himself.

Also, this relates directly to the Manning QB Camp where college players typically have traded the ability to work with the Mannings and other QB guru's for working as counselors. Now, those guys can actually get paid. That's a better model.

It also will allow guys to use their likenesses to profit...especially in today's world of online social media. UCF's kicker lost his eligibility because he had an incredibly popular YouTube channel that he was profiting off of. With the way they are moving forward, the young man wouldn't lose that eligibility. (https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-ucf-kicker-ineligible-youtube-20170801-story.html)

If they do it in a targeted way, there will be little to no impact. However, you must also look at the benefit this provides for players in lesser sports like volleyball, soccer, tennis, etc. They can now work these camps and provide lessons where they are able to make money. It's a good thing...even for lesser sports because we know there are parents out there who will shell out the $$$$ for private lessons in soccer, tennis, golf, etc.
 
They'll likely put a rule in place that doesn't allow boosters and such to get involved. I think it'll end up being that a player can go work camps in the offseason and profit off that. For example: During the summer, Rondale is invited to work 5-6 WR camps where he is able to make a decent amount of money given his stature in the game right now. It benefits that individual running the camp while Rondale is able to use his ability to make some money for himself.

Also, this relates directly to the Manning QB Camp where college players typically have traded the ability to work with the Mannings and other QB guru's for working as counselors. Now, those guys can actually get paid. That's a better model.

It also will allow guys to use their likenesses to profit...especially in today's world of online social media. UCF's kicker lost his eligibility because he had an incredibly popular YouTube channel that he was profiting off of. With the way they are moving forward, the young man wouldn't lose that eligibility. (https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-ucf-kicker-ineligible-youtube-20170801-story.html)

If they do it in a targeted way, there will be little to no impact. However, you must also look at the benefit this provides for players in lesser sports like volleyball, soccer, tennis, etc. They can now work these camps and provide lessons where they are able to make money. It's a good thing...even for lesser sports.
JDB, that is the idealist take on this and essentially the way this is being sold. But, with respect, it is a naive take. There are a lot of obsessed fans out there with big bucks. If there is ANY legal way for an amateur player to receive cash, there will be people lining up to use that as a loophole to buy influence. OP came up with a couple examples, there will be hundreds more. Boosters will be driving armored trucks (full of money) through this loophole to make sure their team has the best players money can buy.

As a pragmatist, I just don't see any way of policing this now, regardless of what kind of fence the NCAA wants to put around it. And it is obvious they don't have any interest in doing so. I recognize a lot of this behavior is already going on, but codifying it is significant. Anyone caught crossing the line has a ready-made defense that they were simply helping the player profit on their own likeness. NCAA has made their decision to accommodate the behavior of their cash cows and put the competitive balance of their product at risk. We shall see how this plays out long term.
 
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JDB, that is the idealist take on this and essentially the way this is being sold. But, with respect, it is a naive take. There are a lot of obsessed fans out there with big bucks. If there is ANY legal way for an amateur player to receive cash, there will be people lining up to use that as a loophole to buy influence. OP came up with a couple examples, there will be hundreds more. Boosters will be driving armored trucks (full of money) through this loophole to make sure their team has the best players money can buy.

As a pragmatist, I just don't see any way of policing this now, regardless of what kind of fence they want to put around it. And it is obvious the NCAA doesn't have any interest in doing so.
And my question is: How does worrying about obsessed fans change anything at all? Those fans are still going to do that because it happens at every school. Guys at Alabama are still being slipped cash. Guys at Kentucky are still being paid. There are ways to legislate the ability to limit that booster activity which is what I said should happen. If a guy wants to run a sham camp for a bunch of kids and throw Moore $4k for it, who cares. Limit the amount each player can make and force them to report the amount to their AD. These kids will learn a fast lesson in taxes and income earning very quickly.
 
And my question is: How does worrying about obsessed fans change anything at all? Those fans are still going to do that because it happens at every school. Guys at Alabama are still being slipped cash. Guys at Kentucky are still being paid. There are ways to legislate the ability to limit that booster activity which is what I said should happen. If a guy wants to run a sham camp for a bunch of kids and throw Moore $4k for it, who cares. Limit the amount each player can make and force them to report the amount to their AD. These kids will learn a fast lesson in taxes and income earning very quickly.
Because the NCAA will not be able nor have the desire to police the sheer number of cash transactions that will be going on. They can hardly keep track of these things when the rule is black and white. And the next Rondale Moore will transfer to Bama after one year because he can make $50k for that WR camp vs. $4k at Purdue.

To your point a lot of this is already going on. But codifying the behavior is import. It means there is no going back. It means a slippery slope. The NCAA is making the enforcement work impossible or at the very least impractical. Schools will either hold themselves accountable to the rules or they won't. I would be very surprised if we see any more significant punishment for violations. If a cash cow is caught crossing the boundary, the boundary will simply be expanded to encompass more territory. All in the name of the player being able to profit off their own likeness.
 
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The amateur rules are almost certainly being flouted. But this could potentially make it easier for some athletes to stay in school longer. If you're a borderline draft pick (Carsen's probably an interesting example here), do you risk not getting drafted (or not getting an NBA contract) when you are making a few thousand dollars for jersey sales and camp appearances.

Obviously the national players have some potential to benefit, but any school with a large, wealthy alumni base will have a number of people who will snap up jerseys of their favorite players. It's going to be a struggle to develop rules around this, but coaches like Saban, Kirby Smart, Coach K, Roy Williams, and even Brohm and Painter are making tens of millions (counting endorsements). Players should be getting a cut--and free tuition is great, but it's not enough.
 
As I listen to the Dan Patrick show right now it makes me wonder, as certain universities begin to recruit players based on “promises to reward them financially for their name and likeness” what happens when set player does not pan out? When star quarterback can’t get off the bench because of injury, off the field behavior, inability to adapt to the college game? Does the university get sued if they don’t pay them but they were promised? EventuaAs I listen to that Dan Patrick show right now it makes me wonder, as certain universities begin to recruit players based on “promises to reward them financially for their name and likeness of “what happens when you said player does not pan out? When start quarterback can’t get off the bench because of injury, off the field behavior, in ability to adapt to the college game? Does the University get sued if they don’t pay them but they were promised?
It won’t take long before Universities are over committed on money, not players
 
As I listen to the Dan Patrick show right now it makes me wonder, as certain universities begin to recruit players based on “promises to reward them financially for their name and likeness” what happens when set player does not pan out? When star quarterback can’t get off the bench because of injury, off the field behavior, inability to adapt to the college game? Does the university get sued if they don’t pay them but they were promised? EventuaAs I listen to that Dan Patrick show right now it makes me wonder, as certain universities begin to recruit players based on “promises to reward them financially for their name and likeness of “what happens when you said player does not pan out? When start quarterback can’t get off the bench because of injury, off the field behavior, in ability to adapt to the college game? Does the University get sued if they don’t pay them but they were promised?
It won’t take long before Universities are over committed on money, not players
No. The school still has the upper hand, the power, the expensive lawyers. They won't be giving any written contracts and they will renege on any verbal promises made if it suits them. This does nothing but codify and expand on the advantage that the helmet schools already have in recruiting and allows a select few players at those schools to rake in their big bucks a year or two before turning pro.
 
Recruiting strategy for Bama:
(1) Load up on 5* as usual.
(2) Pay off.. I mean, provide opportunities to profit on likeness.. all recruits to ensure they don't waver and flip to another program based on something stupid like playing time or relationships.
(3) Look around to see what recruits you missed on from the prior class, such as a Rondale Moore or George Karlaftis blowing up their freshman year. Offer them a lucrative pay off.. I mean.. opportunity to profit on their likeness.
(4) Put Rondale and George on payroll.. I mean.. a profiting from likeness plan.. while they sit out for one year. (Meanwhile put pressure on NCAA to allow immediate eligibility rules for transfers).
(5) Play Rondale and George on national tv every Saturday and in the CFP, and watch their jersey sales sky rocket.
(6) Rinse. Repeat.
 
The NCAA doesn't police money under the table from the big boys now what makes anybody believe they'll try in the future? The rich will get richer and the honest will fade
 
The NCAA doesn't police money under the table from the big boys now what makes anybody believe they'll try in the future? The rich will get richer and the honest will fade
Correct. The rich will get richer as codifying the behavior removes a huge obstacle that prevents the big boys from buying up all of the top recruits with that under-the-table money. Which, of course, is that some recruits and their parents actually have a shred of integrity. As long as getting paid is against the rules, the buyers will only be able to buy a % of the top recruits. Now, open up a legal path to cash flow, and even the most saintly rule following parents will be sending their kids to the highest bidder. The rich will most certainly get richer.
 
The amateur rules are almost certainly being flouted. But this could potentially make it easier for some athletes to stay in school longer. If you're a borderline draft pick (Carsen's probably an interesting example here), do you risk not getting drafted (or not getting an NBA contract) when you are making a few thousand dollars for jersey sales and camp appearances.

Obviously the national players have some potential to benefit, but any school with a large, wealthy alumni base will have a number of people who will snap up jerseys of their favorite players. It's going to be a struggle to develop rules around this, but coaches like Saban, Kirby Smart, Coach K, Roy Williams, and even Brohm and Painter are making tens of millions (counting endorsements). Players should be getting a cut--and free tuition is great, but it's not enough.

Let’s be honest...It’s not exactly just “free tuition” these players are currently getting...
 
Does this not destroy every current rule they have on boosters? ND CEO wants to buy his employees (all 1000 of them) company shirts with Player A's name on them. Bama message board starts a counter on how many shirts they'll sell for a recruit if he signs.

meanwhile, Frank Kendrick is giving a player a car ride and the BB gets the Death Penalty.
So does this mean that it's okay for Alford to pose for a charity calendar again? This is a huge mistake in my opinion.
 
Recruiting strategy for Bama:
(1) Load up on 5* as usual.
(2) Pay off.. I mean, provide opportunities to profit on likeness.. all recruits to ensure they don't waver and flip to another program based on something stupid like playing time or relationships.
(3) Look around to see what recruits you missed on from the prior class, such as a Rondale Moore or George Karlaftis blowing up their freshman year. Offer them a lucrative pay off.. I mean.. opportunity to profit on their likeness.
(4) Put Rondale and George on payroll.. I mean.. a profiting from likeness plan.. while they sit out for one year. (Meanwhile put pressure on NCAA to allow immediate eligibility rules for transfers).
(5) Play Rondale and George on national tv every Saturday and in the CFP, and watch their jersey sales sky rocket.
(6) Rinse. Repeat.
I’m
 
There are also schools because of their location will be able to offer recruits more opportunities to make money off their likeness. Purdue verses USC. Just think how much a player can receive for making a commercial in both locations. And off campus housing. On the beach verses Lafayette
 
The idea that this is something which can be "policed" is a joke. By moving forward with this they have assured there will be more cheating.

If people think there's a problem with money in amateur sports today, wait until they introduce more. It defies logic.
 
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the biggest problem is not with coaches promising players the y can make money. but rather it will be with players telling other players who to ask for it. and there will be places where people will just give players money and it will never be reported or policed. I used to work as an instructor at Auburn on the 90's. people giving players money was already common place. but now those 50's will turn into 1,000s' . the players may say they are just selling a few autographs and tshirts.

I also remember when UW went to the Rose bowl. Supposedly, the NCAA would not allow the tickets to be sold for X amount. So travel agents would sell package deals with the ticket at X amount and the hotel for 10 times the normal cost.


I can see something similar happening. the autograph is sold for $10, but the player receives a $10,000 appearance fee. and people in Alabama and California will think nothing of it.
 
We think recruiting is hard now. Bet a lot of Oregon players will find their likeness on shoes.
oh, no. They're going to control "stuff" like that.

Or, so we'll be promised.

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The idea that this is something which can be "policed" is a joke. By moving forward with this they have assured there will be more cheating.

If people think there's a problem with money in amateur sports today, wait until they introduce more. It defies logic.
Every time you move the bar on what is legal, people will adjust behavior to clear that bar by the same margin. Speed limit is 30, people go 40. Raise it to 40, people drive 50. This might technically only be about profiting on likeness, but it codifies a method of payment for amateurs, which significantly reframes amateur status and will make other forms of cash payment that much more accepted.
 
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the ncaa has been moving away from being 'amateur' athletics for years

its an ever increasing big $ business
 
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