You can only be as aggressive as your NIL budget allows. Sort of like blaming the Reds manager for not landing Aaron Judge or Mookie Betts.
OK. I'll do the elephant in the room
- Thread starter Do Dah Day
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Man, Grady was a great effort guy and I enjoyed watching him play, but let’s not forget, him failing to block out standing flat footed on the missed UVA free throw that was tipped out at the end of the game
True.
Guess I shouldn't talk about something I know little about.
First, I am not sure how much is in our schools charitable NIL?
Also not sure how charity management will direct funds between basketball and football or if they are two separate entities to promote each sport?
Two separate charities seems more efficient & doable for basketball to bring in a great player while taking care of team talent to prevent poaching.
I don't care if you're critical of me or not it's what the board is for. As I stated "The goal should be to get 2 guards that can start over our current 2". Goal, as in that is what you are shooting for. As I also stated, it isn't likely. But getting another Jenkins isn't going to cut it. You said both Fletcher and Smith "Can be expected to make big jumps in the offseason". If I play your same game, how do you know that? How do you know that what we saw this year isn't what we get for the next 3? Or how do you know that their "big jumps" don't still have them falling short of what we need?
Instead of banking on that, I would much prefer we go get the absolute best guards we can get. If that turns out to be guys that aren't good enough to beat out our current ones, then so be it. But I sure wouldn't start out the search thinking that is the best we can hope for. Based on your take, you think more of Fletcher and Smith than I do and that's fair. I sure hope you're right.
No one knows for sure, except the Mighty Carnak, but, it's a good bet that with a year under their belts and going through Purdue's offseason conditioning program, they'll be better able to withstand the grind and be stronger with the ball and off the ball. You could tell Loyer especially hit the freshman wall in February. Not saying don't look for better guards, but only that I feel pretty confident they'll both play better next year...which is no guarantee it'll be at the level Purdue needs to break its 40+ year slump in the tourney.
I'll chip in here. I think there could possibly be one transfer, but not sure who that is.
It will likely come from the Gillis, Furst, TKR, Newman, Morton group. All of these guys are at a point in their careers where they might want more minutes. Not a bad blood situation or anything like that. There will simply be a number crunch with the new Freshman wings, a high need for an impact transfer point/combo guard, and Edey possibly coming back.
If Edey leaves the 3 forwards could very well all stay as I'm not expecting much initially from Berg and that leaves the bulk of 80 mins between 3 guys.
It will likely come from the Gillis, Furst, TKR, Newman, Morton group. All of these guys are at a point in their careers where they might want more minutes. Not a bad blood situation or anything like that. There will simply be a number crunch with the new Freshman wings, a high need for an impact transfer point/combo guard, and Edey possibly coming back.
If Edey leaves the 3 forwards could very well all stay as I'm not expecting much initially from Berg and that leaves the bulk of 80 mins between 3 guys.
Yes if Purdue wants to win a national title like Virginia did then Purdue would need at least 2 transfers that both start. In reality 3 would be better.
For example
1. Armstrong
2. Nelson
3. Colvin
Or ideally
1. Armstrong
2. Nelson
3. Battle
If we signed these guys Purdue would probably win the national championship.
Purdue's guard play needs tons of help and there's no depth.
It seems like Purdue will lose to another double digit seed next year unless they bring in guards that start.
A Jenkins replacement to play 15 minutes and average 4 ppg isn't enough. He also played terribly in the loss to FDU.
It really just comes down to how much urgency the athletic department, the coaching staff and alumni boosters feel.
Personally I feel like the 4th loss in a row to a double digit seed would really kill the enthusiasm that prospective recruits and fans have for the program.
Virginia basically set the precedent by redeeming themselves the next season and winning the championship. We'll see if Purdue will do everything necessary to do the same.
By the May 11th transfer deadline we should have a clear picture of the team.
Painter isn’t going to recruit over Smith and Loyer. Those two will be the anchor for our team for the next three years. Loyer may have struggled second half of the year but it would be hard to find another freshman point guard that had a season like Smith did, while carrying the load he had to carry.
Having said all of this. I do see Painter trying to find another combo guard who can handle the ball and play along side Smith and maybe even Loyer next year. This can be a high minutes guy, especially if he can play all three guard positions.
We don’t have to settle for whatever we get but we certainly aren’t looking to replace Smith and Loyer which is the risk you take if you recruit over them.
Great, because it's ludicrous to think that there's any chance of that happening.
Of course the goal is always to get the best possible players (as measured by expected positive impact, i.e. wins and losses) in every recruiting cycle, whether that's high school kids or the portal. If you don't believe that Painter operates that way I don't blame you if you're not pleased with how he's running the program.
Of course you don't 'know' with certainly that any one player is going to get better but there's typically significant improvement in the first full year in a program as you have a year with access to top flight nutrition, strength and agility training and coaching and you know what you need to work on to improve. Is that a guarantee? No and it's not a reason to not go after the players you think can most help your program, but I'd be shocked if those two don't get materially better.
Nope, but I can see how it would make you feel better. You can feel however you want (and it's clear that you're operating off of feelings), but your expectations are completely unrealistic.
Like I said, dream man.
Then watch other schools steal your guys away & CMP maybe adds a guy or 2 after the top guys are picked over.
Yea if we get 2 guys better than L&S that would be a remarkable upgrade. A major improvement, and what likely is needed.....although I like L&S a ton. And if you want to get better that is one way.
But again we are talking about CMP.
"ludicrous"? Well then Fletcher and Smith better make a huge jump next year. Because if you watch anything outside of the B1G you know that our guards were a long ways from being able to lead a team to the FF. Fools gold early, reality as the season went on. I sure hope you're right. Just watching the FAU/KSU game right now. Both backcourts substantially better than we have. It's not close.
There are many things I like about CMP. One huge flaw is his attitude about NIL. Maybe some on here share that. Maybe you do too, I don't know but if you think the best we can expect is a back-up for Smith and or Loyer, you aren't thinking big enough about the portal.
Agree 100%.
But CMP is not good @ establishing short term recruiting relationships needed with transfers.. Great @ long term recruiting relationships. Thus, history shows he has never added a starter quality wing or guard. (Other than JO that luckily fell in his lap). I hope that changes. But it would not surprise me if it doesn't. SAD.
I can pick another descriptor if you’d like but the reality is that there is a near 0% chance that it happens. Yes, of course I hope the freshmen make a huge jump, I’m sure you do too, but I recognize that nothing is guaranteed.
I’m all for NIL and being aggressive but I guess I’d ask you 1) where do you think Purdue lies in the pecking order for NIL targets 2) how do you think our financial support for NIL stacks up and 3) do you think Painter should promise anything more than an open competition for minutes and starting spots to NIL targets?
Again, I fully support aggressive NIL recruiting, I’m just, IMO, realistic about where we stand.
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We hope heide and Colvin can be effective 3s their first year…maybe even some 4 time in the right scenario ? Not knowing where they will be and expecting growth in the freshmen especially a tall 2 that can slash and play a 2 or 3 may be on Matt’s watch
I’ve not seen season stats but expect the scoring came from the 1, 2 & 5 this year. Purdue has to get more consistent, good play from the 3 & 4 next year
How far away is .Purdue from being very good? Maybe better than currently seen by some. When Zach leaves some pieces may be better and others pieces may not. Next season should be interesting no matter what Zach does IMO
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Yes it's wishful thinking.
I looked at player Purdue has confirmed contact with.
Dayvion McKnight. He's a PG with a high turnover rate and his assist/turnover ratio is only 1.1 which is very low. He also looks like he had a significant lower body injury in the past by on his limited mobility and slow speed.
He is almost certain to have a horrible performance next March if Purdue signs him.
Unfortunately next season is looking like deja vu all over again.
1. This is related to the other points. Basically NIL, playing time, winning, visibility
2. Our NIL is basically non-existent
3. No but Jenkins has hurt us with NIL. He transfered here and played 15 minutes per game and averaged 4 ppg. A lot of the players in portal will fear that happening to them and Painter will give zero reassurance.
Painter could call Drew Brees tomorrow and ask for help to sign 3 transfers plus Edey. Brees is the chairman of Purdue's NIL the Boilmaker Alliance. He has a 100+ million net worth, if Painter asked him to he'd do it.
Painter has to much of an ego to do that though.
You write like you are an insider, mover-and-shaker. Are you?
Yeah, Morton really disappointed as the year wore on. His timidity and lack of confidence driving the basketball made it way too easy for the defense to defend him (basically didn't have to). Defensively he's solid, but nothing spectacular. You put him on the other teams best guard to keep them under 20, most of the time.
It's crazy he made the All Tournament Team in Portland. I looked up his stats for those 3 games and he averaged 5/4/6/2. Not eye popping, but I remember Bilas raving about how his play effected everything Purdue was doing at the time. He just seemed much more confident then, as did everyone else not named Zach.
He did hit some big 3s in the rock fight at Wisconsin too that clinched the B1G. I root for these guys as long they want to be Boilermakers, so hopefully he can get on track his Sr year.
Pick whatever descriptor you want I couldn't care less. Instead of repeating the same 0% chance, why don't you address the real issue. It's not that there isn't a chance of getting better players, it's our coach's attitude about NIL that keeps it from being a possibility.
Here are my answers to your questions:
1. We lie at the bottom of the pecking order because our coach has made it clear he doesn't like it. He went so far as to say if NIL is important to you Purdue may not be for you. What a stupid thing to say. He isn't stupid, but that was a stupid position to take in this current environment. That attitude must change and he needs to come out and say it.
2. I have no idea how much the Alliance has in their war chest. Do you? I do know that the guy who is the leader of it (Brees) has not only his own wealth but access to many others that are very well off also. No reason that $$ should be the issue. Here is the quote from Brees when he joined the Alliance in Sept: "Boilermaker Alliance will also provide all our coaches the resources needed to compete for championships."
3. No idea where this comes from? Yeah he should be honest to potential Portal guys. Just like he should be honest to the current players. Smith and Loyer seem like good guys and I hope they make the huge jump you are projecting. But if they don't it should be made clear to them now that we are going after the best players possible and they are going to have to make that huge jump to keep their minutes.
CMP is a good coach and I'm not in the Fire CMP junk, That is a waste of time. What I want is for him to embrace NIL and do it right. Here is a question for you or anyone else that think there is a zero chance of getting better guards in the portal:
What other power 5 coach came out and said what CMP said about NIL and maybe their school wasn't for you if NIL was important to you? I'm not aware of a single one. Maybe that is where we should be focusing instead of saying there is no chance to do better. There is no reason we should be excluded from going after the best players possible. But the first thing that needs to happen is our coach needs to change his position on it.
The harsh reality is you have to construct and design a lineup to be competitive in the B1G yet go deep in the tourney. Those are polar opposite forces a coach needs to balance.
I appreciate what Zach brought for the team but he isn’t the link to take us to the promise land of a national title. If you watched the two games last night - it was a multiple guys who could isolate and create their own shot.
I appreciate what Zach brought for the team but he isn’t the link to take us to the promise land of a national title. If you watched the two games last night - it was a multiple guys who could isolate and create their own shot.
I get what you're saying, and I have been very negative about the B1G and how it is constructed (reffing, defense). But look at Uconn or Creighton. Don't you think they would have been successful in the B1G this year? I would argue either one of them would have won the conference this year. They have bigs that contribute, but they also have athletes that can get to the basket. We just had one of those things and our big was very one dimensional. I guess what I'm saying is we can construct a team to beat B1G teams and also do well in March. We just haven't done that so far.
Believe me, I think the B1G as a whole needs to change, but in the mean time we can lead that change and still win within the league.
I agree but Kalkbrenner is far more mobile as a big than Edey. Same with Sanogo and Karaban at UCONN.
Those teams don’t run a majority of their offense throw the low post either.
Yes, many of Fire Painter group, have said he is old style and you can't win with a back to the basket center. Both FAU and UConn have back to the basket centers. It is amazing how wrong some of the people are.
I think Smith and Fletcher will make big jumps, I'm more concerned w/ guys like Morton and Newman that have been in the system for a long time and we know what they are. Tell Morton that Toledo would be a vice place place and get a guy like Timberlake.
look , I was psyched when we got Morton, mostly due to him being a Pa. guy like me but after watching him play , Purdue is not going anywhere up the ladder w/ him in there sorry and he's like a 23 yr old too. Watching the tournament it's all about quickness and shooting, he doesn't have that. He kind of blended in due to the style the BIG10 displays.
Would you consider him a recruiting miss or he is the player that does what’s expected from him?
I would think very little. So you believe if Pack came to Purdue they would still be in the tournament?
The starting lineup we could run out next year that resembles the teams that played this weekend would be:
Smith
Stud Portal guard
Colvin
Heide
Furst
Rotation pieces:
Loyer
Gillis
TKR
Why would you think very little? What do you know about FAU? You think their players aren't earning money? Before this season, did you expect Miami to be a big NIL player in basketball? $800,000/2 yrs for a single player?
Many people here are implying that Purdue is out and Miami is still in because Painter "missed" on Pack. So why not?
Are they really like Edey? Those three can run the floor in transition and aren’t the focal point of their teams offense. UCONN and Creighton don’t use drip coverage defense like we do because their bigs are mobile enough to hedge and prevent pick and roll.
I think very little because the players they have were not highly rated players. Don’t see their players being in a bidding war with other teams. So you take the other side?
Did you watch FAU and Uconn? Neither of them run an offense like we do. They both have 7ft centers but that is where the comparison stops. They use those centers very differently then we use Edey. Both of them are so much more athletic than Edey. Completely different teams from us.
I'm not in the fire Painter group, but our dump it into the post offense is very dated and not what these teams do that are making noise in March.
I don't take either side, if there are sides, because I don't know what the NIL situation is at those schools.
But is your point that Purdue should not recruit highly rated players so that we don't have to deal with NIL bidding wars? Or are you saying that highly rated players are not needed for Purdue to get to the Final Four?
Davis supposedly had admissions issues as far as Purdue goes.
This depends a lot on Loyer physically maturing. Regardless of the reality, we need a pentrator with a huge chip on their shoulder. May I go so far as to say a guy that doesn't "fit" the Purdue culture? I have totally supported the good guys ... but having 9 good guys may be enough.
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