Observations now that I’ve watched

[BCfanatic2020]

1. the OL.. I can’t decide. Is it:

> they need to get stronger holstege, hartwig, miller
> it doesn’t matter if they get stronger .. they just aren’t good
> it’s Williams, he just can’t coach and develop

on the last part, I am just so impressed with the defensive coaches they brought in. I was watching Ron English coaching on the sideline and his guys dialed in and I was so impressed. I began thinking “is coach Williams like this guy? Or anything close?” What are his credentials again? At what school do people say “well you know we were pretty good up front back when we had danny Hope (Williams)”..?

2. This defense! Wow.. the best since 2003 and maybe as good or better than that unit when all is said and done. Needing to hold a team to 9 points to win. Needing to withstand passes from the shadow of the end zone to win it..

Just an athletic physical big ten defense. Can anyone honestly say that we’ve had a defense this good in the last 18 years?

3. Oconnell …

look Minnesota will be game planning for Oconnell and that will perhaps reduce his effectiveness

but he doesn’t need to see a guy come open, go “there’s that guy,” then throw it… where his brain and reaction times are are “read 1 boom covered, read two covered,” then he lays an intermediate pass out that a guy runs into.. He’s a ball distributor…

he’s a guy that throws a pillow ball and makes the kinda throws, when there are no gimmes, that would make a certain somebody say “I said to Greg Olsen we got ourselves a quarterback, because without a quarterback you might as well be playing tiddlywinks.”

yes future opponents will try to bring wild unbalanced pressures to take advantage of his slow feet, but Even with that, we won’t need to hold Minnesota to 9 friggin points if he’s out there. The dude had

Plummer made progress but he’s not there yet .. not with a depleted roster anyway

A win is a win but Williams better do something

 

[purduepat1969]

1. the OL.. I can’t decide. Is it:

> they need to get stronger holstege, hartwig, miller
> it doesn’t matter if they get stronger .. they just aren’t good
> it’s Williams, he just can’t coach and develop

on the last part, I am just so impressed with the defensive coaches they brought in. I was watching Ron English coaching on the sideline and his guys dialed in and I was so impressed. I began thinking “is coach Williams like this guy? Or anything close?” What are his credentials again? At what school do people say “well you know we were pretty good up front back when we had danny Hope (Williams)”..?

2. This defense! Wow.. the best since 2003 and maybe as good or better than that unit when all is said and done. Needing to hold a team to 9 points to win. Needing to withstand passes from the shadow of the end zone to win it..

Just an athletic physical big ten defense. Can anyone honestly say that we’ve had a defense this good in the last 18 years?

3. Oconnell …

look Minnesota will be game planning for Oconnell and that will perhaps reduce his effectiveness

but he doesn’t need to see a guy come open, go “there’s that guy,” then throw it… where his brain and reaction times are are “read 1 boom covered, read two covered,” then he lays an intermediate pass out that a guy runs into.. He’s a ball distributor…

he’s a guy that throws a pillow ball and makes the kinda throws, when there are no gimmes, that would make a certain somebody say “I said to Greg Olsen we got ourselves a quarterback, because without a quarterback you might as well be playing tiddlywinks.”

yes future opponents will try to bring wild unbalanced pressures to take advantage of his slow feet, but Even with that, we won’t need to hold Minnesota to 9 friggin points if he’s out there. The dude had

Plummer made progress but he’s not there yet .. not with a depleted roster anyway

A win is a win but Williams better do something

#1. It has to be all 3 reasons for them to be this bad...

#2. They are pretty damn good this far and the coaches are legit.

#3. I don't know if it's too much postgame weed on your part, because I have no earthly idea what you just said or meant...

 

[pboiler18]

When the playbook is open…1st and 10 in this offense isn’t that much better than 2nd and 10. Still have options to hit first downs and big plays if a QB will go through his reads. Plummer just wasn’t and anytime he went to a 2nd or 3rd he was way off target.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

#1. It has to be all 3 reasons for them to be this bad...

#2. They are pretty damn good this far and the coaches are legit.

#3. I don't know if it's too much postgame weed on your part, because I have no earthly idea what you just said or meant...

Plummer slow in reads and processing game
Oconnell not, gets through reads game slow for him
Offense is much better with Oconnell

I can go to 4 words if you need me to keep reducing

but I wasn’t gonna smoke until about 15 minutes from now. Only ever before bed time my friend

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

2. Jamari Brown is really good. Lawrence Johnson keeps playing like that, he's going to be in the NFL. Props to Hagen, my goodness our front 4 look good.

3. Offense is way more explosive with OC at the helm. Dinking and dunking as well as constantly checking down is helping our opponents greatly. With the talent we have at WR, we should expect big chunk plays game in and game out. Im not sure if it's the strategy when Plummer is in or he just doesn't look to go down field.

 

[purduepat1969]

2. Jamari Brown is really good. Lawrence Johnson keeps playing like that, he's going to be in the NFL. Props to Hagen, my goodness our front 4 look good.

3. Offense is way more explosive with OC at the helm. Dinking and dunking as well as constantly checking down is helping our opponents greatly. With the talent we have at WR, we should expect big chunk plays game in and game out. Im not sure if it's the strategy when Plummer is in or he just doesn't look to go down field.

What's happening with the D this year is making last year's staff look even more incompetent than they did then.

 

[rgarlitz]

What's happening with the D this year is making last year's staff look even more incompetent than they did then.

I try not to be the guy who kicks the dead horse--but it's hard to disagree with this statement.

 

[MLB007]

Plummer slow in reads and processing game
Oconnell not, gets through reads game slow for him
Offense is much better with Oconnell

I can go to 4 words if you need me to keep reducing

but I wasn’t gonna smoke until about 15 minutes from now. Only ever before bed time my friend

that's a bit of a waste

 

[BoilerN]

Williams isn't the OL coach. So....

 

[BCfanatic2020]

that's a bit of a waste

I just can’t sleep sometimes.. there’s really not a ton of appeal beyond that for me.

 

[BigTimeAt69]

What's happening with the D this year is making last year's staff look even more incompetent than they did then.

In fairness... Losing George in the second game last year did them no favors. They played really good against Iowa. No doubt if we lost him our defense would look worse

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

1. the OL.. I can’t decide. Is it:

> they need to get stronger holstege, hartwig, miller
> it doesn’t matter if they get stronger .. they just aren’t good
> it’s Williams, he just can’t coach and develop

on the last part, I am just so impressed with the defensive coaches they brought in. I was watching Ron English coaching on the sideline and his guys dialed in and I was so impressed. I began thinking “is coach Williams like this guy? Or anything close?” What are his credentials again? At what school do people say “well you know we were pretty good up front back when we had danny Hope (Williams)”..?

2. This defense! Wow.. the best since 2003 and maybe as good or better than that unit when all is said and done. Needing to hold a team to 9 points to win. Needing to withstand passes from the shadow of the end zone to win it..

Just an athletic physical big ten defense. Can anyone honestly say that we’ve had a defense this good in the last 18 years?

3. Oconnell …

look Minnesota will be game planning for Oconnell and that will perhaps reduce his effectiveness

but he doesn’t need to see a guy come open, go “there’s that guy,” then throw it… where his brain and reaction times are are “read 1 boom covered, read two covered,” then he lays an intermediate pass out that a guy runs into.. He’s a ball distributor…

he’s a guy that throws a pillow ball and makes the kinda throws, when there are no gimmes, that would make a certain somebody say “I said to Greg Olsen we got ourselves a quarterback, because without a quarterback you might as well be playing tiddlywinks.”

yes future opponents will try to bring wild unbalanced pressures to take advantage of his slow feet, but Even with that, we won’t need to hold Minnesota to 9 friggin points if he’s out there. The dude had

Plummer made progress but he’s not there yet .. not with a depleted roster anyway

A win is a win but Williams better do something

• Doesn't Williams coach the Tight Ends?
• Plummer is a game manager. Anything beyond 10-12 yards is not in his wheel house. O'Connell may have the stronger arm of the two QB's. Tight Ends Durham and Bilodeau both are 100% responsible for those "soft thrown" interceptions. O'Connell gets it out quick and has both accuracy and enough zip to get the job done.

Right now, my opinion only is O'Connell is the starter as in he gives Purdue the best chance at winning week in and week out. Jack Plummer & Austin Burton should be the change of pace QB's and both should be used in Wildcat / RPO packages to get the win! Play to their strengths and disguise a deceptive play or two.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

• Doesn't Williams coach the Tight Ends?
• Plummer is a game manager. Anything beyond 10-12 yards is not in his wheel house. O'Connell may have the stronger arm of the two QB's. Tight Ends Durham and Bilodeau both are 100% responsible for those "soft thrown" interceptions. O'Connell gets it out quick and has both accuracy and enough zip to get the job done.

Right now, my opinion only is O'Connell is the starter as in he gives Purdue the best chance at winning week in and week out. Jack Plummer & Austin Burton should be the change of pace QB's and both should be used in Wildcat / RPO packages to get the win! Play to their strengths is disguise a deceptive play or two.

I thought Williams was tight ends and assistant O Line coach

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

I thought Williams was tight ends and assistant O Line coach

We are both right: Offensive line coaches are: Dale Williams, Neil Callaway & Ryan Wallace.

Just my opinion: I'd consider picking up the phone and calling Danny Hope to see if he'd come out of retirement this off season as Quality Control over the O.L. He had some of the best OL in Tiller's tenure and put several into the NFL. That is enough of a resume to me to hire him and quit horsing around. He is as midwest as you can get which should help Brohm.

 

[FirstDownB]

We are both right: Offensive line coaches are: Dale Williams, Neil Callaway & Ryan Wallace.

Just my opinion: I'd consider picking up the phone and calling Danny Hope to see if he'd come out of retirement this off season as Quality Control over the O.L. He had some of the best OL in Tiller's tenure and put several into the NFL. That is enough of a resume to me to hire him and quit horsing around. He is as midwest as you can get which should help Brohm.

I'll bite. I've never played offensive line, so I'll pose the question from a position of ignorance.
What exactly would Danny Hope swoop in and tell these players that 3 coaches, including one who has overseen offensive lines at Alabama, USC, Georgia, Auburn, haven't already? At some point it comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I'll bite. I've never played offensive line, so I'll pose the question from a position of ignorance.
What exactly would Danny Hope swoop in and tell these players that 3 coaches, including one who has overseen offensive lines at Alabama, USC, Georgia, Auburn, haven't already? At some point it comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's.

My understanding is that a lot of the difference between two similar looking linemen can be in how they are taught to hand fight … you can see when George goes against tackles that he’s just destroying them with NFL quality use of hands

look, coaches can be “not bad” abs they’re can still be better .. you like what our defensive coaches have done? See they are our coaches now so you may be biased. Still think poindexter was more than not bad? And people can say “grant was hurt.” I got a dollar says If grant went down that English could get way more out his replacement than poindexter

with all that said, it seems like it could be the case that callaway hasn’t had time with the guys who have retired due to injury. Perhaps the best OL coach in college would be struggling this year.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I'll bite. I've never played offensive line, so I'll pose the question from a position of ignorance.
What exactly would Danny Hope swoop in and tell these players that 3 coaches, including one who has overseen offensive lines at Alabama, USC, Georgia, Auburn, haven't already? At some point it comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's.

and for them to hit the weight room, some of them have the size just not strong looking except for Craig

 

[FirstDownB]

Does our Oline do much cut blocking? I don’t recall seeing nearly as much as in the Tiller and Hope years.

 

[Dennis H.]

You can't have a nasty Oline if you don't even serve hot peppers with your nachos in the stadium

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

I'll bite. I've never played offensive line, so I'll pose the question from a position of ignorance.
What exactly would Danny Hope swoop in and tell these players that 3 coaches, including one who has overseen offensive lines at Alabama, USC, Georgia, Auburn, haven't already? At some point it comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's.

You shouldn’t be asking me. You should be asking Matt Light, Chuki Okobi, Kelly Butler, Brandon Gorin, Gene M., etc
Those techniques kept some darn good defenses off our QB’s back long enough to get thru progressions & created a decent enough push for a decent run game.
Likely what was good then is good now.

 

[Purdue85]

You shouldn’t be asking me. You should be asking Matt Light, Chuki Okobi, Kelly Butler, Brandon Gorin, Gene M., etc
Those techniques kept some darn good defenses off our QB’s back long enough to get thru progressions & created a decent enough push for a decent run game.
Likely what was good then is good now.

Not disagreeing... that was 21-24 years ago.

What else ya got?

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

We are both right: Offensive line coaches are: Dale Williams, Neil Callaway & Ryan Wallace.

Just my opinion: I'd consider picking up the phone and calling Danny Hope to see if he'd come out of retirement this off season as Quality Control over the O.L. He had some of the best OL in Tiller's tenure and put several into the NFL. That is enough of a resume to me to hire him and quit horsing around. He is as midwest as you can get which should help Brohm.

Wallace has absolutely nothing to do with the OLine.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Wallace has absolutely nothing to do with the OLine.

Ok, there are 2 coaches assigned to OL to increase the performance. Results are not in…still deliberating.

 

[bonefish1]

I like our D. 2 games without giving up a TD.
Anyone know the longest drive they’ve given up a score on? All 3 ND TDs we’re big plays.
Still can’t believe Bielema didn’t run 0 off tackle on 4th and 2…..

 

[bonefish1]

You shouldn’t be asking me. You should be asking Matt Light, Chuki Okobi, Kelly Butler, Brandon Gorin, Gene M., etc
Those techniques kept some darn good defenses off our QB’s back long enough to get thru progressions & created a decent enough push for a decent run game.
Likely what was good then is good now.

If Brees had these WRs…..damn.

 

[FirstDownB]

If Brees had these WRs…..damn.

If Tiller had this roster, Wright and Rice would be playing linebacker and Sheffield would be a corner.

 

[bonefish1]

If Tiller had this roster, Wright and Rice would be playing linebacker and Sheffield would be a corner.

actually, that's very possible. Tiller was great at moving guys into a position for them to succeed and a bunch of them made the NFL that way.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

actually, that's very possible. Tiller was great at moving guys into a position for them to succeed and a bunch of them made the NFL that way.

Amen to that.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Not disagreeing... that was 21-24 years ago.

What else ya got?

Other than poach WI, Iowa, or MN OL coach, I don’t. I also don’t get paid seven figures to make those calls either.

 

[FirstDownB]

For a reality check, look at the Minnesota starting Oline. One senior and 4 fifth year seniors. Purdue starts 2 fifth year (G5 transfers), a R-Junior, a R-Soph, and a true Soph. Sixth man is a R-Soph.

The guys who would be seniors aren't with the program. 4/5 were due to injury.

Bramel
Jornigan
Stickford
Beach
McKenna

I don't care who is coaching. That is not a recipe for success at a developmental program like Purdue (or Minnesota). It is boys vs. men. The S&C staff needs to figure out how to keep guys healthy so they can make it to their 4th and 5th years in the program.

 

[purduepat1969]

For a reality check, look at the Minnesota starting Oline. One senior and 4 fifth year seniors. Purdue starts 2 fifth year (G5 transfers), a R-Junior, a R-Soph, and a true Soph. Sixth man is a R-Soph.

The guys who would be seniors aren't with the program. 4/5 were due to injury.

Bramel
Jornigan
Stickford
Beach
McKenna

I don't care who is coaching. That is not a recipe for success at a developmental program like Purdue (or Minnesota). It is boys vs. men. The S&C staff needs to figure out how to keep guys healthy so they can make it to their 4th and 5th years in the program.

Notre Dame depth chart on OL:
LT Carmody So
LG Corell Jr
C Patterson Sr
RG Madden Gr Tr
RT Lugg Gr

Iowa depth chart on OL:
LT Richman Fr
LG Ince Jr
C Linderbaum Jr
RG Britt So
RT DeJong So

Iowa looks like they're getting by with some pretty young guys. I agree that the seniors would have obviously helped Purdue. But they weren't exactly making it happen when they were playing either. IMHO, this issue with the OL has been going on too long. It's not just about the players. There have to be coaching issues with it as well.

 

[FirstDownB]

Notre Dame depth chart on OL:
LT Carmody So
LG Corell Jr
C Patterson Sr
RG Madden Gr Tr
RT Lugg Gr

Iowa depth chart on OL:
LT Richman Fr
LG Ince Jr
C Linderbaum Jr
RG Britt So
RT DeJong So

Iowa looks like they're getting by with some pretty young guys. I agree that the seniors would have obviously helped Purdue. But they weren't exactly making it happen when they were playing either. IMHO, this issue with the OL has been going on too long. It's not just about the players. There have to be coaching issues with it as well.

I'm not sure what is proved bringing ND into the conversation. This is their absolute worst OL in years. They also recruit on an entirely different level.

Iowa is dead last in yards per game in the conference. Averaging 3.3 ypc on the ground. Also not one of their better lines either.

Getting old and staying old matters. Especially in the trenches. It just does.

Realize that part of the reason those other guys weren't "making it happen" is (1) they were playing through injury prior to retirement for said injuries and (2) they were the ones who were young at the time. Give just 2 or 3 of those guys four healthy years and we are talking about a different Oline. Not a great one, but a competitive/good enough one.

 

[purduepat1969]

I'm not sure what is proved bringing ND into the conversation. This is their absolute worst OL in years. They also recruit on an entirely different level.

Iowa is dead last in yards per game in the conference. Averaging 3.3 ypc on the ground. Also not one of their better lines either.

Getting old and staying old matters. Especially in the trenches. It just does.

Realize that part of the reason those other guys weren't "making it happen" is (1) they were playing through injury prior to retirement for said injuries and (2) they were the ones who were young at the time. Give just 2 or 3 of those guys four healthy years and we are talking about a different Oline. Not a great one, but a competitive/good enough one.

Notre Dame's line seemed to do just fine against us. I get they recruit on a different level. But to believe younger players can't be good players isn't quite right either.

I totally understand the retirements hurt the depth and experience level. But this team hasn't effectively run the ball since the first year Brohm (and Williams) has been here. And I don't buy that it's all on the players. I'm not blaming Brohm one bit for this. But I think he needs to make a coaching change on the OL.

 

[FirstDownB]

Notre Dame's line seemed to do just fine against us. I get they recruit on a different level. But to believe younger players can't be good players isn't quite right either.

I totally understand the retirements hurt the depth and experience level. But this team hasn't effectively run the ball since the first year Brohm (and Williams) has been here. And I don't buy that it's all on the players. I'm not blaming Brohm one bit for this. But I think he needs to make a coaching change on the OL.

Saying "younger players can't be good players" is creating a straw man. Let's be precise. My position is simply that "younger players aren't typically as good as themselves as older, more experienced, more physically mature players". Moderate 3 star recruits for middling P5 programs typically require multiple years of development. You want to point out an exception. Fine. Most linemen are better at moving bodies at 22-23 years old than at 19-20. This isn't news or frankly debatable. Short circuiting that development path results in an inferior product on the field. You and I can't begin to evaluate what impact a change in staff may or may not make. What we know is that things have not gone according to plan with getting the 2017 and 2018 recruits on the field in 2021.

 

[purduepat1969]

Saying "younger players can't be good players" is creating a straw man. Let's be precise. My position is simply that "younger players aren't typically as good as themselves as older, more experienced, more physically mature players". Moderate 3 star recruits for middling P5 programs typically require multiple years of development. You want to point out an exception. Fine. Most linemen are better at moving bodies at 22-23 years old than at 19-20. This isn't news or frankly debatable. Short circuiting that development path results in an inferior product on the field. You and I can't begin to evaluate what impact a change in staff may or may not make. What we know is that things have not gone according to plan with getting the 2017 and 2018 recruits on the field in 2021.

My point is, it isn't all about the players. We couldn't even run the ball against Illinois, who had given up an average of 166 yards per game prior to us, including 217 yards to UTSA. I get we only had Downing and Cross. But we had 42 pathetic yards on the ground. There's something not right about the coaching of an Power 5 OL that can't run the ball more than 42 yards a game. Again, that's not all players.

 

[FirstDownB]

My point is, it isn't all about the players. We couldn't even run the ball against Illinois, who had given up an average of 166 yards per game prior to us, including 217 yards to UTSA. I get we only had Downing and Cross. But we had 42 pathetic yards on the ground. There's something not right about the coaching of an Power 5 OL that can't run the ball more than 42 yards a game. Again, that's not all players.

I'll agree to that.. a much different position than pinning the blame squarely on the line coach. Now, the S&C staff on the other hand...

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

1. the OL.. I can’t decide. Is it:

> they need to get stronger holstege, hartwig, miller
> it doesn’t matter if they get stronger .. they just aren’t good
> it’s Williams, he just can’t coach and develop

on the last part, I am just so impressed with the defensive coaches they brought in. I was watching Ron English coaching on the sideline and his guys dialed in and I was so impressed. I began thinking “is coach Williams like this guy? Or anything close?” What are his credentials again? At what school do people say “well you know we were pretty good up front back when we had danny Hope (Williams)”..?

2. This defense! Wow.. the best since 2003 and maybe as good or better than that unit when all is said and done. Needing to hold a team to 9 points to win. Needing to withstand passes from the shadow of the end zone to win it..

Just an athletic physical big ten defense. Can anyone honestly say that we’ve had a defense this good in the last 18 years?

3. Oconnell …

look Minnesota will be game planning for Oconnell and that will perhaps reduce his effectiveness

but he doesn’t need to see a guy come open, go “there’s that guy,” then throw it… where his brain and reaction times are are “read 1 boom covered, read two covered,” then he lays an intermediate pass out that a guy runs into.. He’s a ball distributor…

he’s a guy that throws a pillow ball and makes the kinda throws, when there are no gimmes, that would make a certain somebody say “I said to Greg Olsen we got ourselves a quarterback, because without a quarterback you might as well be playing tiddlywinks.”

yes future opponents will try to bring wild unbalanced pressures to take advantage of his slow feet, but Even with that, we won’t need to hold Minnesota to 9 friggin points if he’s out there. The dude had

Plummer made progress but he’s not there yet .. not with a depleted roster anyway

A win is a win but Williams better do something

To your first point:

The issue with the OL, I believe is either lack of proper technique or the OL are being asked to do things schematically that they just can't physically do. I think one of the things I have seen often is Miller being out in space and he just can't get to the block he needs to make. That has to either be poor technique they are teaching to the players to block OR they are using a scheme that they players simply can't effectively perform due to a lack of athleticism. It would be like asking a TE to block a DE one on one. Are there some DE's you could use that and get away with it? Sure....but don't ask a TE to block GK one on one. That's asking a player to do something he simply can't schematically do due to a lack of athleticism/size.

 

[bonefish1]

To your first point:

The issue with the OL, I believe is either lack of proper technique or the OL are being asked to do things schematically that they just can't physically do. I think one of the things I have seen often is Miller being out in space and he just can't get to the block he needs to make. That has to either be poor technique they are teaching to the players to block OR they are using a scheme that they players simply can't effectively perform due to a lack of athleticism. It would be like asking a TE to block a DE one on one. Are there some DE's you could use that and get away with it? Sure....but don't ask a TE to block GK one on one. That's asking a player to do something he simply can't schematically do due to a lack of athleticism/size.

The OL is the area where lack of depth and dvlpmt is more evident than anywhere else on the field. It's the position where young players are going to struggle the most.
Yes, bulk/strength are important to an OL, but even more is technique and experience.
I think our OL look like B10 OL size, it's the lack of exp, depth and development that's lacking.

 

[BoilerN]

Was the oline good vs Illinois? No. But it wasn't really bad. Illinois has a pretty solid, experienced front 7 and Purdue went at them with a younger OL and a freshman RB duo. That's not what you want vs solid front 7's.

 

[YouSayPotato]

1. the OL.. I can’t decide. Is it:

> they need to get stronger holstege, hartwig, miller
> it doesn’t matter if they get stronger .. they just aren’t good
> it’s Williams, he just can’t coach and develop

I get hammered every time I say it the honest truth is that we have not been recruiting Big Ten caliber offensive linemen for the past ten years. We're competing with the Ball States and Toledos for OLs, not the Ohio States and Wisconsins. Go look at the 'offer lists" of the ones coming in next year.