I believe you are correct on this. I found a site that stated if you are given a full ride academic scholarship then it would not count against the number of allowable athletic scholarships for the team. If that’s the case and I’m not 💯 sure if it is, it would eliminate the over signing issue.
Next years starting 5
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You do risk scrutiny but yeah if a full ride academic scholarship gives you an opening, maybe someone signed up for it for one year? I guess we find out soon.
There is certainly precedence -- with Donnie Hale. IIRC, the agreement to go to a prep school was made with the scholarship offer, and was announced shortly after the season concluded. Painter hand-picked the prep school and arranged for the enrollment. The major difference is that Hale was not pursued by any other major programs and did not excel in prep school to the point where other programs showed interest. Painter recruited all of these current guys very hard (with the possible exception of Cox, who may be the hidden jewel of the class), and I would think that he wouldn't want to do it agaion.
If this was the solution to the scholarship crunch, I agree the discussion may have occurred during recruiting. I would have expected it to be known by now. No real reason to withhold it, unless there is still the possibility that someone doesn't return. But I am ignorant of the inner workings.
This keeps nagging at me. I wonder how Painter feels about BoilerUpload reaching out to his players to discuss this, rather than respecting his decision to announce it on his own timeline. On the other hand, it's possible that Painter requested the interviews to quell the rumors.
There would also be no reason for them to tell Casey no prep school if this was something decided during recruiting. I guess I could see withholding it as long as possible to dissuade poaching, but then you'd have to have someone straight up lie when asked recently directly.There is certainly precedence -- with Donnie Hale. IIRC, the agreement to go to a prep school was made with the scholarship offer, and was announced shortly after the season concluded. Painter hand-picked the prep school and arranged for the enrollment. The major difference is that Hale was not pursued by any other major programs and did not excel in prep school to the point where other programs showed interest. Painter recruited all of these current guys very hard (with the possible exception of Cox, who may be the hidden jewel of the class), and I would think that he wouldn't want to do it agaion.
If this was the solution to the scholarship crunch, I agree the discussion may have occurred during recruiting. I would have expected it to be known by now. No real reason to withhold it, unless there is still the possibility that someone doesn't return. But I am ignorant of the inner workings.
An academic scholarship just straight up could be something known at the time of the oversign. Although why that would be kept quiet til now I don't know.
If one goes the prep school route than doesnt that take the lone scholarship for 2025? Which then would not allow us to pursue Haralson or Sisley or others? Or maybe just keep over recruiting and pushing the scholarship out to the next year? 😂There is certainly precedence -- with Donnie Hale. IIRC, the agreement to go to a prep school was made with the scholarship offer, and was announced shortly after the season concluded. Painter hand-picked the prep school and arranged for the enrollment. The major difference is that Hale was not pursued by any other major programs and did not excel in prep school to the point where other programs showed interest. Painter recruited all of these current guys very hard (with the possible exception of Cox, who may be the hidden jewel of the class), and I would think that he wouldn't want to do it agaion.
If this was the solution to the scholarship crunch, I agree the discussion may have occurred during recruiting. I would have expected it to be known by now. No real reason to withhold it, unless there is still the possibility that someone doesn't return. But I am ignorant of the inner workings.
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There’s no spot available to sign someone in 2025 the way it stands unless it’s a junior or younger is who makes space this year by opening up a scholarship in a way besides prep school route.
We'll have to tell Haralson he'll have to go to a prep school for another year.
This is my thought as well.
I don't believe this is allowed. If you are a "recruited athlete" any scholarship you receive has to count toward the limit of 13. Pretty sure if teams could do this, they would already be doing so.
I believe you're correct. Sports like volleyball are not head count restricted, so they can give out partial scholarships and have as many players as they can get within their budget. Basketball is limited to 13 scholarship players. Period. Doesn't matter where the scholarship comes from. Can someone show proof of this being incorrect?
That does sound right. Or else Kentucky would give "academic scholarships" out like candy.
So we are back to two options: an oldy or a youngy gives up a scholarship in some fashion whether prep school, portal, NIL, alien abduction, or what have you.
don’t we have one open right now due to Furst graduating? Or is it more because with being one over now, the 2025 one that opens up is taken by the extra scholarship we are over?
I'm with you on that last sentence, me too.There is certainly precedence -- with Donnie Hale. IIRC, the agreement to go to a prep school was made with the scholarship offer, and was announced shortly after the season concluded. Painter hand-picked the prep school and arranged for the enrollment. The major difference is that Hale was not pursued by any other major programs and did not excel in prep school to the point where other programs showed interest. Painter recruited all of these current guys very hard (with the possible exception of Cox, who may be the hidden jewel of the class), and I would think that he wouldn't want to do it agaion.
If this was the solution to the scholarship crunch, I agree the discussion may have occurred during recruiting. I would have expected it to be known by now. No real reason to withhold it, unless there is still the possibility that someone doesn't return. But I am ignorant of the inner workings.
I don't think they actually have to have this figured out until school starts in the fall, so what is the incentive to announce anything now (other than people like us wanting to know)? While the odds seem slim of further roster changes, I can't think of a reason to announce anything between now and May 1 and it may actually go longer than that if someone like Brian Waddell wants to gauge whether he can work his way into the rotation over the summer.
It's the latter, it just keeps getting pushed out with the assumption that at some point you'll have some level of attrition in this environment.
You know better than to believe what 'folks' are saying
Again, I have never seen Painter say anything about this, much less him saying that he 'knows how he's going to address it'.I'm by no means saying that MP is 'winging it', just that there are many moving parts, I don't think he can or should come in with a preset solution, more like a decision tree. As posted elsewhere, he has time to make final decisions although I'd be surprised if he isn't having those conversations now.
You're right, I doubt that any of the recruits has already agreed to go to prep school and is outright lying about it. That doesn't mean that the possibility hasn't been broached and doesn't remain an option if it becomes obvious in July or August that one or two of these guys isn't in the running for playing time.
I mean the people who run this site said it too and I've seen it attributed to him in an article because the issue was raised to him when it happened. No I don't have a link.You know better than to believe what 'folks' are saying
I'm by no means saying that MP is 'winging it', just that there are many moving parts, I don't think he can or should come in with a preset solution, more like a decision tree. As posted elsewhere, he has time to make final decisions although I'd be surprised if he isn't having those conversations now.
You seriously think he went into an oversign situation without knowing exactly how it was going to resolve? Really?
If he goes into this with a "decision tree" the only two branches on that tree are someone agreeing to give up a scholarship or someone agreeing to go to prep school. What if no one wants to do either? Of course he came into it with it already resolved and someone agreeing to that outcome beforehand.
That would be the definition of "winging it" seeing how things go and hoping a resolution appears. I don't remotely believe Painter runs that type of operation and am surprised anyone here does.
I would believe one of the kids isn't being honest with rivals (because it's not supposed to be out yet) way before I would believe Painter is just hoping someone will realize during summer informal sessions that they wanna go to prep school.
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How would that be obvious in July or August when practice doesn't start until October No one is going to think they can't play during informal sessions over the summer. Why would Painter even agree to that prior to seeing what he has in actual practice?
So you really think Painter is just waiting to see which frosh is the least ready and his plan is to force that person to prep school last minute?
I believe we have a spot open now, but if you prep school someone we do not. Another reason why prep school doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You close off 2025 entirely unless you just assume someone isn't going to work out and will leave.
Casey is a very good writer but I don't think anyone on this site has particularly good inside information.
Yes, I 100% believe that MP went into an oversign situation without deciding exactly how it would be resolved. I think he would be foolish to handle it any other way. It's not tenable to run a major college basketball program in this environment if you can't live with some level of uncertainty.
Who does it help to tell Waddell or Furst (your examples) in November that they may have to give up their scholarship when you don't know who is going to leave the program? If he can't or doesn't want to get someone to go to prep school it's a difficult but straightforward conversation with someone between now and the start of school. "You're not in the running to get playing time this season. We want you to either retire and we'll cover the rest of your schooling or we can help you find a place to which to transfer where you can get on the court'. I'm sure Matt doesn't love that, but that's the business now.
Dude, they practice all summer. First 'official' practice doesn't mean anything now and hasn't for a while.
No, I don't think he's waiting to force a freshman to go to prep school. If that's an option I suspect he's already had preliminary conversations and if they aren't willing to live with that he'll help them find other options.
The only way there is a spot for 2025 is if someone beside Furst gives up a scholarship or leaves this year. Otherwise we will still be at 13 scholarship players in 2025. The prep school thing doesn’t work because that person takes Fursts spot next year bringing it back to 13. If Furst gives up a scholarship or transfers then all 13 remaining this year will return next year.
I have a question, doesn’t signing a NLI basically commit a scholarship to them? I believe I read that it does. If that’s the case can you not honor that? Wouldn’t deciding they have/need to go to a prep school go against their signing the NLI?
Wow. You're really locked into the idea that the only solution doesn't involve anyone currently here. So much so that you're throwing the folks here under the bus, and you have convinced yourself that going into this situation not knowing how it will work out and effectively punting an unwilling frosh is the way to go.
No one said he told anyone they had to give up their scholarship last fall. Not knowing how things will go is EXACTLY why you have a plan in place before you oversign. That can involve NIL, it can involve prep school, it can involve the portal, it can involve "retirement," or it can involve some other manner of going off scholarship for a season (parents willing to pay). There's a variety of ways to skin the cat, only one of which involves prep school.
From the signing story last Nov:
"Painter was confident he had room for a sixth scholarship and that foreshadows some transfers and movement." Again, that sounds like a plan, not, "someone will eventually go to prep school."
I certainly believe Painter had and has a better plan for this than that, and would be pretty disappointed if he just figured it will all work itself out this summer. He's never operated that way before. So either one of the kids isn't being quite honest about prep school to the media because it's not supposed to be revealed yet (which I'm fine with) or there's another plan in place.
So basically, just so one of Furst or Waddell can play one more season in Fursts case, you think he'd just pull a frosh scholly and send a kid packing somewhere else? And if the kid doesn't want to go somewhere else, Painter forced that how?
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I assume the argument is that said kid would agree to it so it's ok. But yes you can't pull scholarships once they've signed solely for performance reasons. If a kid doesn't want to go to prep school, there's not much Painter can do to force the issue.
Again, everything tells me a plan has been in place to deal with this. We just don't know what it is yet. Whether that's converting a scholly to NIL, a parent paying someone's way for a year, a retirement or a portal transfer. Or as I said it could be prep school but one of the kids told Casey a fib because it's not supposed to be out yet.
What I refuse to believe is that Painter, at this moment, still doesn't know exactly how this plays out.
I believe you are correct, I found this response when the same question was asked in regards to football;
“Yes, both academic and athletic scholarships count against an NCAA football team's scholarship limit. The NCAA sets limits on the number of scholarships a team can offer, and this includes both academic and athletic scholarships. These limits are in place to promote competitive balance and ensure that student-athletes have access to educational opportunities.”
I'm not sure how many times I need to state that I have no idea whether one of the current players leaves, someone goes to prep school or something else happens. I've said in nearly every post that I don't know.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to accept the possibility that there's a decision tree in place and that multiple conversations are going on that you (and I and the writers here) don't know about. I think MP may expect someone on the current roster to leave and if they don't he has discussed as a backup plan with one of the freshmen the possibility of them going to prep school. Per your other post yes, that would involve one of the signees not lying, but not being not 100% forthcoming when asked about prep school by not coming out and saying 'that's not the plan but it's a possibility'.
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Schools do it all the time but I agree that MP would not do so without having discussed it up front with a recruit. Agree that part of MP's 'decision tree' would be a fall back plan if no current player wants to leave and no signee agrees to go to prep school. I don't know what that fall back plan would be.
For the nth time, I don't know how the decision tree plays out, no one does for certain. That's why you have a decision tree, to be prepared to react to whatever situation arises and knowing what I know about MP, he's being up front with the players involved about those possibilities.
I know you want a statement that 'Matt is confident he had room for a sixth scholarship and that foreshadows some transfers and movement.' to mean that this was all figured out months ago, but the truth is someone could surprise Matt and staff and enter the portal tomorrow.
What most people are referring to is a press conference Painter had after signing Jacobson. He was asked point blank if signing Jacobson meant that that he was no longer going to recruit Harris. He said he had a plan and that there was a way and he was still recruiting Harris. And then he signed Harris. And at that time he said he’ll explain it later as it unfolds.
His comments made people believe he had already talked to a player and knew the future before signing Harris rather than just over signing his class and hoping someone would leave to create space.
I trust Painter to be both honest to the media, to his recruits and have a plan.
His comments made people believe he had already talked to a player and knew the future before signing Harris rather than just over signing his class and hoping someone would leave to create space.
I trust Painter to be both honest to the media, to his recruits and have a plan.
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Thanks Wol. I think to some degree qaz and I are talking in circles around each other because we both believe he has a plan and we both believe that he'll be honest with the players involved. I suspect that his plan accounts for a number of possible scenarios, but I could be wrong.
As for new recruits, A walkon can sign a LOI. And not all players have been truthful about their status to the media. One of the six incoming freshmen could have signed an LOI and let the media believe it was an athletic scholarship.
I remember Eastern and his mom telling the media he had signed with Michigan and people believed him. Players lie to the media every day.
Maybe one of our incoming 6 recruits received a National Merit Scholarship or a Boy Scout or VFW full ride scholarship. And Painter doesn’t want to reveal it until that player’s school scholarship day. Painter has always recruited some very intelligent and well rounded students.
Maybe a player is going to be a dorm counselor.
My money is still on Furst receiving some sort of internship and no longer requiring a basketball scholarship. And this would dovetail into Painter saying he had a plan.
I remember Eastern and his mom telling the media he had signed with Michigan and people believed him. Players lie to the media every day.
Maybe one of our incoming 6 recruits received a National Merit Scholarship or a Boy Scout or VFW full ride scholarship. And Painter doesn’t want to reveal it until that player’s school scholarship day. Painter has always recruited some very intelligent and well rounded students.
Maybe a player is going to be a dorm counselor.
My money is still on Furst receiving some sort of internship and no longer requiring a basketball scholarship. And this would dovetail into Painter saying he had a plan.
This would still count toward limit of 13.
This might work (though it still leaves us w no opening the following season but hey one year at a time)
This will most likely be an Occam’s Razor scenario. Asking one of our recruits to go to prep school doesn’t make sense. They are better served being on campus practicing and training with our team. Prep schools for the most part are glorified AAU teams. They aren’t working on our plays and sets. The weight training and conditioning aren’t going to be like what they will on campus.
I think we will know the answer eventually and no matter the amount of us speculating will change that. There is a reason the announcement hasn’t come. We will never know any of this unless we run into said player and they give us the breakdown.
I think we will know the answer eventually and no matter the amount of us speculating will change that. There is a reason the announcement hasn’t come. We will never know any of this unless we run into said player and they give us the breakdown.
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