NCAA Coaches' Evaluation of Purdue

[FirstDownB]

Stole this link from our rival's board.. Seth Davis (meh) gets anonymous assessments of teams from conference coaches.

Here is the link:
http://www.campusrush.com/acc-big-ten-sec-basketball-duke-unc-indiana-kentucky-1609997330.html

Here is what they said about Purdue:

Purdue (21–6, 9–5): "I like 'em, don't love 'em. They're missing consistent outside shooting. If it comes down to where you can make them make threes to beat you, they have a hard time doing that. [Senior center A.J.] Hammons is playing as well as any post player in the country. [Sophomore guard P.J.] Thompson has played well as of late, but in the games they've lost, he had to step up and make a play and couldn't do it. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff made a deal with [freshman forward Caleb] Swanigan to play him on the perimeter. He's a better post player than Hammons, but he doesn't want to be down there. It's hard to play them together because they can't defend. [Senior guard Rapheal] Davis, Thompson and [sophomore forward Vince] Edwards are going to have to be able to keep defenses honest. If you look at their league losses, a versatile four man gives them trouble because Swanigan can't guard that."

Hardly anything new here, but it is interesting to see actual coaches with a lot of similar comments to what is said on these boards by armchair point guards.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Is this really from a conference coach? Biggie is better in the post right now than aj? Doubt it. Hammons can't defend? Dude is the anchor of our defense and primarily what he is known for. Other then that is was just casual takes, nothing insightful. Also implying a deal with biggie, wtf? It was probably some scrub coach from psu or rutgers, etc.

 

[Heller]

Knowing Seth Davis over the years I doubt it's anyone other than Crean.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Stole this link from our rival's board.. Seth Davis (meh) gets anonymous assessments of teams from conference coaches.

Here is the link:
http://www.campusrush.com/acc-big-ten-sec-basketball-duke-unc-indiana-kentucky-1609997330.html

Here is what they said about Purdue:

Purdue (21–6, 9–5): "I like 'em, don't love 'em. They're missing consistent outside shooting. If it comes down to where you can make them make threes to beat you, they have a hard time doing that. [Senior center A.J.] Hammons is playing as well as any post player in the country. [Sophomore guard P.J.] Thompson has played well as of late, but in the games they've lost, he had to step up and make a play and couldn't do it. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff made a deal with [freshman forward Caleb] Swanigan to play him on the perimeter. He's a better post player than Hammons, but he doesn't want to be down there. It's hard to play them together because they can't defend. [Senior guard Rapheal] Davis, Thompson and [sophomore forward Vince] Edwards are going to have to be able to keep defenses honest. If you look at their league losses, a versatile four man gives them trouble because Swanigan can't guard that."

Hardly anything new here, but it is interesting to see actual coaches with a lot of similar comments to what is said on these boards by armchair point guards.

What would you expect? This board is populated with some of the greatest basketball minds that have never cashed a check for coaching a game.

 

[FirstDownB]

Is this really from a conference coach? Biggie is better in the post right now than aj? Doubt it. Hammons can't defend? Dude is the anchor of our defense and primarily what he is known for. Other then that is was just casual takes, nothing insightful. Also implying a deal with biggie, wtf? It was probably some scrub coach from psu or rutgers, etc.

Yeah. I thought the "they can't defend" statement was questionable at best and obviously AJ is better in the post. Biggie is the weak link defensively.. maybe so weak that AJ has difficulty compensating? If that's what is meant it is poorly stated.
I assume by "deal" he meant "promise", which was absolutely why he came to Purdue, to play the 4.. but perhaps a bit more of a stretch 4 than his abilities dictate.

 

[mathboy]

Overall it is not a bad analysis. Poorly stated in some areas, indicating that the author does not command the English language very well. What struck me were 2 things:
(1) the description of Biggie playing on the "parameter". Sorry, but I just don't consider a power forward/strong 4 type a parameter player. A PF is very much an in-the-paint player who faces the basket.
(2) Biggie is better than AJ in the post? WTF? Maybe for rebounding. Biggie is more aggressive, but then again, he is more aggressive than anyone else in the BIG right now.

I do expect Crean to send his drivers at Biggie. I suspect IU's offensive strategy to be drive at Biggie and kick out for the open three. That is what I would do anyway (not an expert!).

 

[gr8indoorsman]

The "they can't defend" statement was specific to Hammons and Swanigan playing together and it's spot on. Swanigan can't defend a screen/roll very well, and he's even worse at a screen/fade if the other team has a 4 that can shoot. That problem is doubled if you have Hammons in there, because he's not terribly strong at defending those plays either, and if your 5 can shoot, it removes him from the lane opening it up for penetration. Pray that Hartman is missing from 3 on Saturday and that Bryant isn't able to pull AJ more than 15 feet out, or it's going to be a long, long game against IU and we might get run out of the gym. I'm pessimistic about this game.

This team's best lineup doesn't have Swanigan in it.

 

[Chuchumutha]

Yeah. I thought the "they can't defend" statement was questionable at best and obviously AJ is better in the post. Biggie is the weak link defensively.. maybe so weak that AJ has difficulty compensating? If that's what is meant it is poorly stated.
I assume by "deal" he meant "promise", which was absolutely why he came to Purdue, to play the 4.. but perhaps a bit more of a stretch 4 than his abilities dictate.

I can only assume that by saying "can't defend" he is referring to guarding the perimeter and P/R. If you get AJ or Biggie away from the basket and run P/R, they have a hard time with that. Down low, Hammons is one of the best defenders (if not THE best) in the country.

 

[bonefish1]

This coach says what we've all said. I say it's a fair analysis. Especially the part about not having clutch players.

 

[Chuchumutha]

The "they can't defend" statement was specific to Hammons and Swanigan playing together and it's spot on. Swanigan can't defend a screen/roll very well, and he's even worse at a screen/fade if the other team has a 4 that can shoot. That problem is doubled if you have Hammons in there, because he's not terribly strong at defending those plays either, and if your 5 can shoot, it removes him from the lane opening it up for penetration. Pray that Hartman is missing from 3 on Saturday and that Bryant isn't able to pull AJ more than 15 feet out, or it's going to be a long, long game against IU and we might get run out of the gym. I'm pessimistic about this game.

This team's best lineup doesn't have Swanigan in it.

Beat me to it. You must have posted while I was typing.

 

[rgarlitz]

I wonder if the "they can't defend" was simply a case of the coach not saying exactly what he meant. Maybe he meant something like "Purdue doesn't defend as well with Swanigan in the post." or "Swanigan can't defend the post."

I doubt there are many coaches who really think AJ can't defend down low. If there are, I hope we get to face 'em in the NCAA tournament.

But it does seem strange to say Hammons "is playing as well as any post player in the country" and then turnaround and say that Swanigan is a better post player. If that's true, then Purdue is really, really, really loaded down low!

 

[BoilerDeac]

I wonder if the "they can't defend" was simply a case of the coach not saying exactly what he meant. Maybe he meant something like "Purdue doesn't defend as well with Swanigan in the post." or "Swanigan can't defend the post."

I doubt there are many coaches who really think AJ can't defend down low. If there are, I hope we get to face 'em in the NCAA tournament.

But it does seem strange to say Hammons "is playing as well as any post player in the country" and then turnaround and say that Swanigan is a better post player. If that's true, then Purdue is really, really, really loaded down low!

I will say this...when Biggie gets the ball in the post, there have been multiple occurrences where the position he has been able to get is second to none; he literally BURIES the defender under the basket.

AJH is the better post player, and has a much greater variety of moves and shots, but in terms of pure, primary position, I can see what the coach meant by saying that.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

But it does seem strange to say Hammons "is playing as well as any post player in the country" and then turnaround and say that Swanigan is a better post player. If that's true, then Purdue is really, really, really loaded down low!

Swanigan has more versatility to go to in the post than Hammons, who is a two-trick pony, like Haas. Essentially, you want both turning over their right shoulders as they're far more likely to make a weak move like a fadeaway jumper going to their right than to their left. Swanigan appears more comfortable going to either side aggressively, and he's got the pseudo-Dirk step back shot. Swanigan is also more consciously physical than Hammons or Haas. Haas is very physical, but it's almost by default. If he tried to truck somebody, he might literally kill someone.

Purdue IS loaded in the post, but they win or lose based on shooting and turnovers, and their shooting is inconsistent... so...

 

[gr8indoorsman]

AJH is the better post player, and has a much greater variety of moves and shots, but in terms of pure, primary position, I can see what the coach meant by saying that.

The only things AJ's got over Swanigan offensively (well, and defensively) are height and athleticism. I don't think he's any more skilled than Caleb is, and disagree that he's got a much greater variety of moves and shots. He's got two moves to his left, two to his right. A drop step both ways, a fadeaway jumper to his right, and a hook to his left. Swanigan's got the same, but his step-back is better, he's more physical and aggressive, and still a better passer today than Hammons, IMO.

 

[tjreese]

I wonder if the "they can't defend" was simply a case of the coach not saying exactly what he meant. Maybe he meant something like "Purdue doesn't defend as well with Swanigan in the post." or "Swanigan can't defend the post."

I doubt there are many coaches who really think AJ can't defend down low. If there are, I hope we get to face 'em in the NCAA tournament.

But it does seem strange to say Hammons "is playing as well as any post player in the country" and then turnaround and say that Swanigan is a better post player. If that's true, then Purdue is really, really, really loaded down low!

ha ha...logic, "But it does seem strange to say Hammons "is playing as well as any post player in the country" and then turnaround and say that Swanigan is a better post player" is lost in the media...

 

[BoilerDeac]

The only things AJ's got over Swanigan offensively (well, and defensively) are height and athleticism. I don't think he's any more skilled than Caleb is, and disagree that he's got a much greater variety of moves and shots. He's got two moves to his left, two to his right. A drop step both ways, a fadeaway jumper to his right, and a hook to his left. Swanigan's got the same, but his step-back is better, he's more physical and aggressive, and still a better passer today than Hammons, IMO.

That's fair. I still think AJH's arsenal of moves is greater than Caleb's. You just listed an array of moves that most players would be jealous to have.

Swanigan also doesn't have a 5-7 foot quick hook shot like AJH does. Unless he's right under the basket, he's pretty limited.

Caleb hasn't come close to displaying anything as effective as the drop-step that AJH has shown, and his fadeaway, at this point, is a low percentage shot; AJH's quick hook shot is also far more effective than almost anything CS has. I do agree that CS is a better passer than AJH.

Regardless, I really don't like them playing together. I don't think they compensate one another's games very well.

 

[rgarlitz]

Yeah, Deac and gr8indoors, that all sounds reasonable. Of the two, AJ still seem to be the more sure bet offensively, at least right now. He also seems to be a better ball handler down low.

Still, I'm glad they're both on our team.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Yeah, Deac and gr8indoors, that all sounds reasonable. Of the two, AJ still seem to be the more sure bet offensively, at least right now. He also seems to be a better ball handler down low.

Swanigan's gotten much better since the Butler game about turnovers. He's more consistent about keeping his turnovers low. Next step for him is shot selection, but even since Maryland, he's been a little bit better.

Seems like Painter has really emphasized not settling for early 3s to the whole team since the Maryland game. We've really only seen Cline and Davis (when he hit 5 of 6) shooting any kind of volume. Interested to hear what Painter said.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

lol Biggie is great. You guys are ridiculous. He's a little slow footed on D, but jeez he's a freshman. Did you miss the head fake at the 3 line, drive through contact, finish high off the glass against NW? Dude has some serious skill.

 

[BoilerDeac]

lol Biggie is great. You guys are ridiculous. He's a little slow footed on D, but jeez he's a freshman. Did you miss the head fake at the 3 line, drive through contact, finish high off the glass against NW? Dude has some serious skill.

Yes, he does have some serious skill, no doubt about that.

He also leads the conference in turnovers (as a forward...), shoots under 30% from three, and struggles to defend stretch 4s.

Johnny Hill has had some amazing chase down blocks this season...does that mean we shouldn't discuss his glaring weaknesses?

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Yes, he does have some serious skill, no doubt about that.

He also leads the conference in turnovers (as a forward...), shoots under 30% from three, and struggles to defend stretch 4s.

Johnny Hill has had some amazing chase down blocks this season...does that mean he we shouldn't discuss his glaring weaknesses?

Some guys can make up for their weaknesses. We should just go back to recruiting the Tacos of the world...we get a Ferrari and you complain about the gas mileage.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Some guys can make up for their weaknesses. We should just go back to recruiting the Tacos of the world...we get a Ferrari and you complain about the gas mileage.

Caleb's rebounding (as great as it has been), imo, has not made up for his weaknesses at the 4.

LOL I'm not complaining; I'm stating facts. You're letting his "McDonald's All American" status blind you.

 

[icewind7]

Thanks coaches for agreeing that we are not very good and we do have problems, and that need to be addressed.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I think in Biggie's case you look at something like a WAR for him... If he's in the lineup we get a +rebounding, -turnovers, -shooting/spacing, -defense. Edwards at the 4 isn't a major dropoff in rebounding strictly speaking, but putting Mathias or Cline in at 3 with Edwards moving over gives you a -rebounding overall, but +spacing/shooting, +turnovers, probably a push defensively.

Overall, our offensive issues are directly related to a lot of one-dimensional guys. Davis and Swanigan have their moments, but largely all of Davis, Hill, PJT, Swanigan, Haas, Cline and Stephens do one thing. The more you can have Edwards and Mathias (Cline is pretty good too) out there together, the more versatile and efficient the offense becomes, at the expense of rebounding. But Purdue's a damn good rebounding team with Edwards and Hammons/Haas out there anyway, so in many cases it'd be advantageous to play smaller (against Iowa, IU, Michigan...) IMO.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I think in Biggie's case you look at something like a WAR for him... If he's in the lineup we get a +rebounding, -turnovers, -shooting/spacing, -defense. Edwards at the 4 isn't a major dropoff in rebounding strictly speaking, but putting Mathias or Cline in at 3 with Edwards moving over gives you a -rebounding overall, but +spacing/shooting, +turnovers, probably a push defensively.

Overall, our offensive issues are directly related to a lot of one-dimensional guys. Davis and Swanigan have their moments, but largely all of Davis, Hill, PJT, Swanigan, Haas, Cline and Stephens do one thing. The more you can have Edwards and Mathias (Cline is pretty good too) out there together, the more versatile and efficient the offense becomes, at the expense of rebounding. But Purdue's a damn good rebounding team with Edwards and Hammons/Haas out there anyway, so in many cases it'd be advantageous to play smaller (against Iowa, IU, Michigan...) IMO.

YES! Does Biggie make Purdue a better rebounding team? ABSOLUTELY! But, Purdue is already a very good rebounding team with Haas/Hammons and VE on the floor at the 5 and 4 positions.

 

[mathboy]

Thanks coaches for agreeing that we are not very good and we do have problems, and that need to be addressed.

I don't think anyone said "We aren't very good". Those were words from your mouth, not the evaluation. Did you read any of the other scouting reports? Do you have any idea how positive ours was comparatively? ...oh, I didn't think so.

I have suggested to some of the more vocal critics, such as yourself, that you watch some other teams and look at the scores for other (what you would call "good teams"). It would help you understand the game of college basketball a little better. This is not some X-Box game where your team dominates all the others. College basketball has great parity right now. Enjoy it and enjoy the good team we have.

Maryland lost at Minnesota (first win in conference)
IU and Iowa lost at Penn State
Purdue lost at Illinois
MSU lost to Nebraska at home

 

[Do Dah Day]

Some guys can make up for their weaknesses. We should just go back to recruiting the Tacos of the world...we get a Ferrari and you complain about the gas mileage.

Sometimes it's better not to remove all doubt ....

 

[tjreese]

Yes, he does have some serious skill, no doubt about that.

He also leads the conference in turnovers (as a forward...), shoots under 30% from three, and struggles to defend stretch 4s.

Johnny Hill has had some amazing chase down blocks this season...does that mean we shouldn't discuss his glaring weaknesses?

"IF" Johnny doesn't turn it over against IU and IU hasn't totally sold out to packing it in I think Johnny has enough length and athletic ability to get to the rim this game and give a step to Yogi and defend him. I think Johnny's play could be an important variable in the game

 

[icewind7]

Mathboy, you really need to stop criticizing or insulting other posters. If you need to make comments, make comments on the team and players, not the posters. Let's it go. All these comments are not based on 1 play, 1 game or 1 year. I care about results, because data doesn't lie. Are we at final four yet? OK, no.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Sometimes it's better not to remove all doubt ....

you are the punks bitching about a freshman on the naismith watch list...so take your own medicine uncle abe.

 

[Cevol03]

"If it comes down to where you can make them make threes to beat you, they have a hard time doing that"

This is the most accurate statement in this article. This is why we will start to see Cline stealing some more minutes from Biggie and Dakota.

 

[toddbrewster]

Mathboy, you really need to stop criticizing or insulting other posters. If you need to make comments, make comments on the team and players, not the posters. Let's it go. All these comments are not based on 1 play, 1 game or 1 year. I care about results, because data doesn't lie. Are we at final four yet? OK, no.

Personally, I don't think posters should be criticizing players or coaches without giving an abundance of platitudes. Some players are not affected by criticism, but some are.
Some posters have criticized my posts. If I don't like it, then I shouldn't post or I can get nasty back.
We have to remember that these are kids out there and we should support them not complain that they are not perfect.
AJ is probably the premier low post defenders in the country. AJ can also be an effective perimeter player, but it is sometimes a hard decision to leave the rim unprotected to pursue someone who is shooting a 3.
Biggie is one the most aggressive rebounders in the country. He has shown a great aptitude in understanding how to take this aggression to being a better perimeter defender.
I have been most impressed with the advancement of Haas as a post defender. There has not been that big a drop off defensively inside the paint when Haas spells AJ. I am happy to see Haas is showing improvement when he is forced to switch. He has come a long way.

 

[Ross Mackey]

Mathboy, you really need to stop criticizing or insulting other posters. If you need to make comments, make comments on the team and players, not the posters. Let's it go. All these comments are not based on 1 play, 1 game or 1 year. I care about results, because data doesn't lie. Are we at final four yet? OK, no.

Here's an idea:

Stop posting stupid stuff, if you don't like being called out for posting stupid stuff.

 

[icewind7]

It's OK Ross, call and whine whatever you want. Waste of my time anyway, as I know this conversion will not change anything at all.

 

[icewind7]

Todd, my comment isn't to target any kid or players, and it's just some general comments to status of today's Purdue basketball, that's all. You can look up my history.

 

[Ross Mackey]

It's OK Ross, call and whine whatever you want. Waste of my time anyway, as I know this conversion will not change anything at all.

I am glad I could be of help. Now that you understand that your post was a waste of time, you are on the right path.

Best of luck with your conversion.

 

[icewind7]

At the same time, your time is wasted too. So, I should recommend you to ignore my post.

 

[BBG]

Here's an idea:

Stop posting stupid stuff, if you don't like being called out for posting stupid stuff.

It boils down to something pretty simple, if you aren't going to be okay with the responses you get or take things so seriously that you are offended or some such, then don't post it.

This is the internet, things are not going to go how you want things to go.

 

[BBG]

At the same time, your time is wasted too. So, I should recommend you to ignore my post.

If we are all posting here, aren't we all just wasting time though?

 

[Ross Mackey]

At the same time, your time is wasted too. So, I should recommend you to ignore my post.

You're making an assumption that has no basis in fact . The fact is that my time is not wasted at all; I am happy to help whenever I can.

Here 's another idea:

You stop posting stupid stuff (which you already admitted is a waste of everyone's time), and then, I won't have to help you out so often... OK?

Please-- do tell how your conversion turned out -- maybe I can help you with that as well!