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Minnesota

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since1980

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Nov 16, 2012
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A lot of people on the boards pro Hazell keep mentioning the job Kill has done at Minnesota as far as being patient with the current coaching staff.

A few things Kill has going for him there in Minnesota is a new stadium and also being in a big city....things that certainly can help with recruiting. Although, I don't think they have had great recruiting by any means, but the administration gave him time to develop his system and program there, and it is paying off.

I am somebody who thinks Hazell deserves 4 years (barring next year isn't a complete disaster) to prove what he can do.

But...my concern is what is being done surrounding the program that would attract recruits to West LaLa? Why would a decent recruit want to come play at Purdue vs. going to other middle of the road BIG 10 programs? I think that is where Burke could have done a better job over the past 10 years being proactive instead of reactive developing the Purdue culture so that there wouldn't be such a huge drop off when things went bad.

My other thought is this....with the lack of an above average QB, talent and playmakers in the program...what makes anybody calling for Hazell's head think that we should have been a good team this year? Are people expecting the guy to perform miracles with MAC level talent in 2 years when we are playing a ton of freshman and sophomores? Everybody keeps complaining about the coaches...but realistically what makes people think that a different coach would have done much better with the talent Purdue has?
 
I think there's a couple problems with what you're saying.

1. Minnesota had 1 losing season under Kill they did not go to a bowl game, in which they were 3-9. Granted, their seasons since have not been tremendous - but Minnesota went from 3-9 his first season, to 6 wins his 2nd season to 8 wins last season to 8 wins this season. I would not exactly say Hazell is anywhere near that track. Comparing the 2 situations saying Hazell deserves 4 years is not a comparison to Minnesota and Kill.

2. Minnesota's talent level is better than Purdue's, but not by anything significant - although their depth is better. The conclusion that Minnesota's developed their players and they've gotten them to this success vs. Purdue is so young and are in the process of developing them is just not accurate. Minnesota is not loaded with seniors in their depth chart. Also, some of our bigger playmakers are seniors this year and some of theirs are freshmen and sophomores.

3. You ask do people expect to take MAC level talent in 2 years and do well? Well, no offense, but he hasn't done anything to improve the talent level. If anything, our talent level will be worse than it was when Hazell started going into next year. You ask for time for progress - well the first "indicator" of progress is improving recruiting. That's 100% not there.
 
Re: Minnesota WIN...

Pretty easy to answer. At least MN is competitive, having winning seasons and going to bowls. We are headed in the other direction.
 
Originally posted by spradecki:
what has kill done that is so impressive
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in the last 70 years, Minnesota has only won 8 or more games in a season 7 times...2 of those years were 2013 & 14 under Kill...that's impressive.
 
Because there is such a huge difference between us this year as a 3 win team and a 6 win team? Not really. A decent QB, might have gotten us at least a few more wins this year (IU, Iowa, maybe Northwestern)...

Saying a coach isn't improving talent level when only 1 of his recruiting classes has played is dumb. Football players not named Bentley need a few years to develop before judging them. Recruiting rankings mean something...but not everything.

My point in talking about Kill is that he has more advantages coaching at Minnesota because of the new stadium and being in a big city than what Hazell does at Purdue. Kill should have an easier time recruiting there than Hazell trying to get kids to come to WL. Clearly Kill has done a good job at developing talent. To me it's still to early to judge Hazell in that regard...and I don't believe you can really judge a football coach on that until about year 4...unless it's so obvious that they are incompetent. I doubt Minnesota fans were freaking out about how good of a job Kill was doing when they won 6 games in year 2.

Purdue was better this year even if the win column didn't show it glaringly.

Blame Burke for sucking....but to me it's too early to call for Hazell's job.
 
Purdue had the goose that laid the golden egg with Tiller and Brees. That stadium and other football facilities could have been top notch with the money they brought in, instead it was a spread the wealth mentality by Burke.Thats your America today.
 
I'm with you. I think a lot of other people are too. But this board is so full of trash that there probably won't be decent discussion for a while. And that's not directed at the usual posters who are frustrated. We are all very frustrated. There are far too many people who show up after a loss for the I told you so's. That's how we got in this situation to begin with. The same people cried about "Hopeless" and what an idiot he was. So they fired him. We have to give this coach some time. So for the next two years all the loyal fans can do Is show up, cheer loud, and ignore the noise. The sad part is recruits see this nonsense so it will be a very difficult hole to climb out of.,
 
See the link to former JC writer Jeff Washburn's Twitter comments. While our current major sports teams keep saying they have the talent to win, recent performance suggests otherwise. Our football team looks like a middle of the road MAC program in terms of talent.

The whole game at Purdue is recruiting, and mens basketball, womens basketball, and football have struggled mightily recently to recruit. Mens hoops recruiting has been much improved the last two years and womens basketball is currently experiencing much stronger recruiting. Why? The coaches are the same so it must be the Mackey makeover.

Football recruiting has continue to decline even with a new, impressive (at least compared to Hope) head coach. The issue I assume must be Ross Ade. IU is outrecruiting Purdue in football and it must be the money they poured into their stadium. Now IU is no power house, but it is becoming clear that they are a better program than Purdue.

I happen to think spending on major NCAA football and basketball programs is over the top. But it is what it is. If we wish to compete, we had better get serious about investing in our major programs. There is no reason for our major sports to be as bad as they currently are. If Burke or Daniels are not bothered by this, they are going to find themselves with empty stadiums and arenas.

And by the way, ticket revenue does still matter a great deal. I asked a Big Ten AD this summer about this, and he confirmed that every cent counts given how competitive things are. The terrible attendance this fall for football does matter - a lot!

Washburn comments
 
The comments by Washburn are very eye opening. I'm usually not a huge fan of his but I think he is speaking rationally and realistically in the FB situation. Hope was recruiting players who had no business in the Big 10 and it will take several more years to climb out of this hole. He will get the next 2 years. Way too many people do not understand the repercussions of firing coaches way too soon.
 
Originally posted by BoilerStutz:
See the link to former JC writer Jeff Washburn's Twitter comments. While our current major sports teams keep saying they have the talent to win, recent performance suggests otherwise. Our football team looks like a middle of the road MAC program in terms of talent.

The whole game at Purdue is recruiting, and mens basketball, womens basketball, and football have struggled mightily recently to recruit. Mens hoops recruiting has been much improved the last two years and womens basketball is currently experiencing much stronger recruiting. Why? The coaches are the same so it must be the Mackey makeover.

Football recruiting has continue to decline even with a new, impressive (at least compared to Hope) head coach. The issue I assume must be Ross Ade. IU is outrecruiting Purdue in football and it must be the money they poured into their stadium. Now IU is no power house, but it is becoming clear that they are a better program than Purdue.

I happen to think spending on major NCAA football and basketball programs is over the top. But it is what it is. If we wish to compete, we had better get serious about investing in our major programs. There is no reason for our major sports to be as bad as they currently are. If Burke or Daniels are not bothered by this, they are going to find themselves with empty stadiums and arenas.

And by the way, ticket revenue does still matter a great deal. I asked a Big Ten AD this summer about this, and he confirmed that every cent counts given how competitive things are. The terrible attendance this fall for football does matter - a lot!
Click to expand...
It is always quicker and easier to turn around basketball programs. Our women's team just signed the #7 class in the country. Our men's team is getting better significantly. Our FB program is at least 2 years behind. I attribute the past valley and subsequent recovery to the availability of funds for recruiting. There can be little doubt that the programs started downhill with Cordova's arrival, and started uphill with her dismissal. Let's stop blaming the coaches and AD for what was an administrative failure at the highest levels of our school.

Cordova did little or nothing to improve the academic standing, and she actively worked against the proper funding of the athletic programs. To put it lightly, she was a friggin' disaster for Purdue.

cool.r191677.gif
 
Oh my gosh, you are clueless. Yes, it's all Cordova's fault! I understand people have made her a political type of target, but she was a President at a University at one of the hardest times in decades to be in that position, particularly at a public school. Purdue's academic standing actually did improve under her a good amount, and the fundraising/research dollars continued to go up. Enough with trashing her cause you hated her.

VERY FEW presidents are very interested and spend a lot of time dealing with athletics. I mean when Mitch Daniels was hired people on here thought it'd be the greatest thing for athletics - guess what, hardly anything has changed. University presidents have so much more important things to be focused on. Daniels may enjoy sports more than Cordova, but it's not changing how things are done in Purdue Athletics.

Morgan Burke is more or less in charge of athletic department spending. When Painter was upset and was trying to fund his program and struggled to rent cars on recruiting visits, the money suddenly appeared to fund the program. You think freaking Cordova was telling Burke he needed to put rental car restrictions on his men's basketball coaches? Give me a break! That's Morgan Burke. When Hope was fired and Hazell was hired with a significant increase in salary money for coaches - the money suddenly appeared (and mind you, an interim president was in place at the time - which makes it highly unlikely that the President's Office was controlling salaries for football coaches).

Burke has pretty much the authority to do what he wants to do, he just has to ask - and he NEVER did until his hand was forced with Painter and then the football situation. Burke was well known to be cheap before Cordova and he's well known to be cheap after Cordova. He's worked under multiple presidents and the athletic department's operation has remained remarkably consistent in strategy. The consistent thing is NOT one president or any of them, it's the athletic director.

I'm not on the "fire Burke" bandwagon here, but it's absurd the misinformation people spew as fact.
 
I know Jerry Kill and Darell Hazzell is no Jerry Kill. Took a SIU program on the verge of being shut down to national prominence Had winners at NIU. Then took over Minny program that all on here discounted and has won 8 in consecutive years. Were it not for his low key awe shucks personality and his health history his ceiling would be even higher.
 
I'm fairly wishy-washy on Washburn. He likes to play "insider", yet holds onto information way too long.

For example, he said that Hope was not Tiller's choice (it was spack). What's the point of "dropping" that info years after the fact? If you're going to play insider, you need to keep up more in real time.

I don't think his "2 more years" is based on anything more than his own hunch. You just don't marry yourself to anything. A lot of people didn't expect Hope to be fired that "quickly" either (because it wasn't that quick). Money speaks louder than anything - if some of the major donors say enough and it's another dismal season, I wouldn't expect him back for a 4th year. But obviously that depends on how things play out.

What I would like to see this offseason is some personnel changes in order to help recruiting AND I'd like to see the athletic administration lay out some roadmap of success. How are they going to engage recruits? How are we going to get recruits we need? Are we targeting in-state, midwest, national? What coaches are responsible for what areas?

If you don't shoot high, you're never going to end up there. We have this vague, ho-hum approach that's not working right now.
 
The best scenario IF things continue down the same path is for Mitch to ask Morgan to step down next fall allowing a new hire who would then be in place to handle the transition for a new coach of his/her choice. I don't want Morgan around for the next selection.
 
Anyone who quotes Washburn looses all credibility with me. I can't stand that guy. He and I have gotten into it many times with his "coverage" of Purdue sports. He stems from the "positive news doesn't sell papers" era. He is quick to criticize and slow (or fails) to acknowledge positives. He will remain totally silent when Purdue does something worth of praise and jump all over anything negatives.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
This. Worst thing we can do is let Burke hire another football coach. He's apparently good at hiring volleyball and golf coaches, so he can continue to do that.
 
Originally posted by mathboy:

It is always quicker and easier to turn around basketball programs. Our women's team just signed the #7 class in the country. Our men's team is getting better significantly. Our FB program is at least 2 years behind. I attribute the past valley and subsequent recovery to the availability of funds for recruiting. There can be little doubt that the programs started downhill with Cordova's arrival, and started uphill with her dismissal. Let's stop blaming the coaches and AD for what was an administrative failure at the highest levels of our school.

Cordova did little or nothing to improve the academic standing, and she actively worked against the proper funding of the athletic programs. To put it lightly, she was a friggin' disaster for Purdue.

cool.r191677.gif
Click to expand...
Part of the long-term problem is that we've got to get 3 and 4 star performances out of 2 star players in order to have a decent shot of obtaining 3 and 4 star recruits. That's the hole we are in.
 
We have a lot of current 2 star players on this team - and currently, half of our class is 2 star players. Just to put it into perspective, Vanderbilt, San Jose State, Western Michigan, FAU…have better recruiting classes. We're inching out ahead of Northern Illinois, FAU and UT-San Antonio right now. It's not good.

A Big Ten program should flat out not be recruiting at that level. So yes, Hazell inherited a lot of questionable talent. But for 2 years, he has done nothing to elevate the talent level - and quite frankly, after losing some of our current seniors this year, our talent level will probably be worse than it has been.

You can't spend 2 full years making no recruiting strides and then go back and blame the previous coach. Half of recruiting is coaches selling the program. All the fluff is great, but my gosh, you can't be competing with MAC schools for recruiting. MAC schools do not have more than we do.
 
Frustration with the Boilermaker fortunes has been built on 4 years of under achievement by the football team.. That includes Players, Coaches and staff. After the collective poorest winning record in Purdue history dating back to the 1930's, this thread claims Purdue doesn't have the Quarterback talent to win and the players are lacking.
I find it really hard to believe that in all of Purdue history, who produced, so many Quarterback that claim is simply not credible.
 
AMEN!!! Hazells recruiting woes are not connected to Hope. Kent State is not good. With /HAZELLS recruits!! This is a train wreck. I Cannot believe Burke/Daniels cannot see this.
 
Originally posted by Wilt 13:
AMEN!!! Hazells recruiting woes are not connected to Hope. Kent State is not good. With /HAZELLS recruits!! This is a train wreck. I Cannot believe Burke/Daniels cannot see this.
Click to expand...

Even if they see it there are $8 million reasons they won't do anything about it.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
When Kill took the job at Minnesota he said it would take seven years! He also has had the same assistant coaches he had with him him at Northern Illinois and I think even before NIU. Bottom line is that he has a proven loyal staff which is almost unheard of!

Hazel will be at Purdue for the duration of his contract or unless Burke leaves! There is no short term solution. Tiller stopped recruiting after his sixth year and he was a 500 coach the rest of his tenure at Purdue and then we had Hope and we were hopeless! So Hazel is going to get the full duration of his contract as he should. It took time to destroy the program and it will take time to fix it !!
 
You can`t smoke that shit and post on this board that Hazell will and can coach a winning team at Purdue.FIRE his ass and Burks then hire Brock Spack
 
Having consistent assistant coaches is important, although not always a problem.

A great example of building a program has been Mizzou. They were absolute garbage when Pinkel took over. They built up slowly, had recruiting strategies, has had pretty much the same staff for 10+ years and a long term vision for the program - they've played in the SEC championship 2 years in a row (granted, not the best division those years - but many thought they'd get destroyed in the SEC).
 
In the Twin Cities Kill competes very directly with the Vikings and other pro sports to fill the seats.

Kill had many years as a head coach. His staff has been together MANY years.

Very different. Some pluses. Some minuses.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by spradecki:
that is impressive. boiler fans would not be satisfied for long with 8 wins
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Sure they would, in my watching life time the best era of Purdue football was Joe Tiller and the best season he had was 9 wins. I would imagine Purdue fans would be thrilled win consistent 8 per season. I would at least, I understand the limitations and know we are never going to be Ohio State.
 
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