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Matt Haarms - ESPN 4*

Nov 9, 2011
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Finally got his rating. Not in the top 100, but an ESPN 4* nonetheless

For what its worth, Haarms is rated higher than some of the recruits we went for and missed, like Sterling Manley - 3*, signed with North Carolina. and Theo John - 3*, signed with Marquette
 
Finally got his rating. Not in the top 100, but an ESPN 4* nonetheless

For what its worth, Haarms is rated higher than some of the recruits we went for and missed, like Sterling Manley - 3*, signed with North Carolina. and Theo John - 3*, signed with Marquette
So the 2017 class now consists of 3 players who are 4* in at least one service each, plus a JUCO.
 
I'd say that's a quality recruiting class by CMP!

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I'd say that's a quality recruiting class by CMP!

Agree. Aside from not getting JJJ, I have no regrets in this class. Maybe no immediate starter due to what we'll have coming back but some will contribute next year and have some experience under their belt for 2018 where there will be crazy playing time up for grabs.
 
CMP is now experienced enough and takes a broad enough recruiting swath to make good classes happen. He seems to know now what to do when his first & maybe second choices go awry. We have seen evidence of this work landing good classes since 2012. I give him a lot of credit for his growth in recruiting and scouring recruits to find acceptable back up plans.

This class is a good one, no doubt, but I am not sure it merits a high degree of boasting as it is likely in the #3-5 range in the B1G, and if it ends up @ #3, it would be due only to the sheer number of solid recruits. Who knows, maybe the class trends upward in its final ranking, and ends at #2 in the B1G, as a slim outside chance...-- just a very big class which one of our recruits could blow up potentially as they end their HS careers like Carsen Edwards did in his last year.

However, CMP is not a markee recruiter though, by any means, and like many still need improvement in this area. Like many, he misses often on his first and sometimes second choices....but he is experienced enough to bring in a good solid mid pack B1G class. There are several things he can improve on....like not being so frank with recruits, continuing to developing his sales ability which has improved, working with donors/admin to expand the living resources and accommodations for recruits, working with scheduling to add preseason markee games to bring attention to Purdue for recruiting, and maybe most importantly. getting that key assistant that adds to Purdue's recruiting.

As for CMP's recruiting results, I would like to see improvement in:
1. Getting that occasional great class of studs- the #1 class in the B1G.
2. In protecting our Indiana border & securing a higher % of top 75 guys from Indiana.
3. Landing a top 40 guy with more regularity.
 
Ratings are icing on the cake but it is what the cake is made up of that I care about.

Painter has fine tuned his recruiting to get good young men with high character, willing to be coached and fit the university culture.

I am Indiana born and Boilermaker by choice and I support what MP is doing 110%.

2018 is a key class to fill in the gaps again for the mass exodus of graduation in 2017.

I know he will bring in the best young men that fit the family culture and university that is Purdue.

Boiler Up!
 
Ratings are icing on the cake but it is what the cake is made up of that I care about.

Painter has fine tuned his recruiting to get good young men with high character, willing to be coached and fit the university culture.

I am Indiana born and Boilermaker by choice and I support what MP is doing 110%.

2018 is a key class to fill in the gaps again for the mass exodus of graduation in 2017.

I know he will bring in the best young men that fit the family culture and university that is Purdue.

Boiler Up!
This may be far more true than you realize. Walking the halls of Mackey regularly, this is a very wise and true post. PLUS, for that player that may struggle with being the best young man, Matt will do everything in his power to help him become one. And yes, at times, they choose to leave rather than become one. I suspect those will be fewer from now on.
 
I never did see Battey as a loss...Tillman another story though...
I think JJJ might be the only real loss in this class. He will probably be a real stud at MSU.
I'm not so sure I wouldn't take a 4 year Haarms over a 2 year JJJ though.
Maybe I'm looking through Black and Gold glasses but I really, really like the videos of Haarms.
We need Epperson though.
 
I think JJJ might be the only real loss in this class. He will probably be a real stud at MSU.
I'm not so sure I wouldn't take a 4 year Haarms over a 2 year JJJ though.
Maybe I'm looking through Black and Gold glasses but I really, really like the videos of Haarms.
We need Epperson though.
he is physically weak, but is skilled and can get up and down the court
 
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So the 2017 class now consists of 3 players who are 4* in at least one service each, plus a JUCO.
You mean Coach Painter might be a little ahead of the recruiting gurus when it comes to judging talent? But weren't we all told that if he isn't at least a 4 star when he commits, then he isn't worthy of a scholarship? :rolleyes:
 
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I think Carsen was a 3 star for a while and he looks like the best recruit Purdue has got in a while. Not just because hes a great player, but hes exactly what Purdue needed which was a guy who could create and get his own shot.
 
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I think Carsen was a 3 star for a while and he looks like the best recruit Purdue has got in a while. Not just because hes a great player, but hes exactly what Purdue needed which was a guy who could create and get his own shot.

The hidden message in your accurate statement is that a "TEAM" needs recruited. That team must have people willing to sacrifice individual things (individual things create star ratings) and that the TEAM should not be made up of clones of others ...unless those clones are great talents in all skills as well as athletic. When Carsen is on...Purdue can really be tough. When he is off, he can still keep the D soft by attacking their pressure. I think Matt keeps recruiting some size as he has a lot of credibility in that area now (Haarms said as much) and will soon be appreciated for his guard play with the addition of Eastern. Shouldn't Purdue be in great position with PJ's younger, but taller brother for starters?
 
The true and only measure of MPs recruiting success is what he's able to do in the tournament.
If his recruiting is good enough to get guys that can get to a FF, then he's doing a good job.
 
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Why should that measure bother you? You, I think the quote was, "have no doubts" that Painter will get Purdue to a Final Four.

That doesn't mean that every recruiting class that doesn't get there is defined as a failure in my books.
 
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That doesn't mean that every recruiting class that doesn't get there is defined as a failure in my books.
And most people's really. After all only 4 teams make it to the Final Four, but those that don't, aren't bad teams nor have bad recruits or a bad coach. It's generally the fans that set that expectation based on their own individual perception.
 
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I think the Dakota/PJ/Vince/Jacquil/Haas recruiting class will go down as the best in the history of the program if they reach a final four in the next 2 seasons.
 
Finally got his rating. Not in the top 100, but an ESPN 4* nonetheless

For what its worth, Haarms is rated higher than some of the recruits we went for and missed, like Sterling Manley - 3*, signed with North Carolina. and Theo John - 3*, signed with Marquette
I like haarms' potential, but let's keep in mind that ESPN is a lot more generous giving out four stars then rivals is.
 
Objectively, this is a very average recruiting class. And the Eastern commit is what brings it up to average. Not so bad you call for Painter's head, and not so good that you get all puffy chested. The very ranking source that gave Haarms a four star grade does not have the Boilers in their top 40 of their 2017 rankings. Although, there are six other B1G teams in the top 40.
 
Objectively, this is a very average recruiting class. And the Eastern commit is what brings it up to average. Not so bad you call for Painter's head, and not so good that you get all puffy chested. The very ranking source that gave Haarms a four star grade does not have the Boilers in their top 40 of their 2017 rankings. Although, there are six other B1G teams in the top 40.

Objectively, we won't know how good the class is for another couple years or more.
 
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That may be your only measure. Don't try to define it for everyone.
Actually, from a predictive measure in some form of regression, the model in his view would only consist of Matt. With that perspective..assuming it was valid, the models for other predictors (other coaches success as measured) would only be the coach as well...again assuming the other variables were insignificant. The obvious conclusion would be that the sum of squares for the model (coach) would make up a very high percentage of the total sum of squares...leaving no interest to consider other variables in the model for investigation. Personally, I have a hard time believing that model is that predictive, creating that small of a standard error, but I'm just one with an opinion.
 
Objectively, this is a very average recruiting class. And the Eastern commit is what brings it up to average. Not so bad you call for Painter's head, and not so good that you get all puffy chested. The very ranking source that gave Haarms a four star grade does not have the Boilers in their top 40 of their 2017 rankings. Although, there are six other B1G teams in the top 40.
I agree that generally speaking a higher star ranking is a positive correlation to a player's abilities. I don't question that it is an indicator. My question is what is the proper weighting of star power generally? Do we look at top five, top 8, star player position and is that weighed against various individual metrics, team success and so on and so on. How do I accurately know that six other big ten teams really got better players, because someone not coaching and maybe not familiar with needs for particular team spots and tendencies listed them? In the blind, sure I would rather day in and day out have an average of 3.8 stars than 2.5 stars. I doubt anyone disagrees, but there is a lot of error for a lot of reasons in comparing star power as a means of indicating individual success and team success. In a way we can replace star power with IQ and look at academic success adn I say that not knowing the standard errors of the two for comparison, but rather say it only as a thought.

What was actually used to measure star power and how was that star power used to measure effectiveness. Again, I agree in a general trend of direction...but magnitude? Is the 40th best player or class better than the 50th or 70th?
 
Actually, from a predictive measure in some form of regression, the model in his view would only consist of Matt. With that perspective..assuming it was valid, the models for other predictors (other coaches success as measured) would only be the coach as well...again assuming the other variables were insignificant. The obvious conclusion would be that the sum of squares for the model (coach) would make up a very high percentage of the total sum of squares...leaving no interest to consider other variables in the model for investigation. Personally, I have a hard time believing that model is that predictive, creating that small of a standard error, but I'm just one with an opinion.

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The true and only measure of MPs recruiting success is what he's able to do in the tournament.
If his recruiting is good enough to get guys that can get to a FF, then he's doing a good job.
So even coach K is no good 60 or 70 percent of the time? I know what you mean but that's a really high bar to set.
 
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Recruiting is separate from coaching. Not that it isn't part of the job, but development is equally important. I don't recall Nigel Hayes being highly sought while in high school but most programs would take him today and would have two years ago.
 
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