Maryland vs. MSU
- Thread starter Jbigler1986
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State ended the half on a 17-5 run.....up 44-32. Been bouncing between games/programs....Huerter and Cowan as usual driving the Maryland bus. Going to be really tough for any visitor to come out of Breslin with a win this year.
Was listening on the radio and it appears Tillman has worked his way in to some minutes. Would have been a nice body to have and add a dimension to the front court this season putting him in there with Haas/Haarms. They are very good but I'm interested to see what Purdue can do against them as it'll likely be the best team that have played up to that points (and the same goes for Purdue as well). That game could end up being a fist fight to 70 first...I don't really see a high scoring affair there unless Purdue lights it up from the outside (which they can do as well as anyone in the country this season).
Yeah. MSU is really good. Our best bet to beat them is in the BTT or the FF.
yeah, Mich St is a load. I love our Boilers through and through and hope they prove me wrong, but it will be tough to get a win against these guys. Great opportunity to get better though and you never know.
I think we'll need to be on from 3 and have a good offensive game from Haas to hopefully get Ward in foul trouble. From the little I've seen this year of MSU, Nick Ward looks great. I'm impressed. He's a tough matchup for Haas or Haarms. Haas doesn't quite have the foot speed or reactiveness for his moves. Haarms' length can cause problems, but Ward is so strong and finishes well around the hoop.
I guess Vince will guard Bridges? Bridges will be a tough matchup for anyone in college basketball. Their guard play and outside shooting is better than I expected and I thought they were good.
Izzo was really ripping into the refs in the first half when it was close. He was reaching Bo levels. It was more than his usual (at least from what I remember). I know some will call me out and would prefer Painter rip into the refs more, but I'm preferring his more civil demeanor towards the refs from simply a self-respect standpoint.
I think we'll need to be on from 3 and have a good offensive game from Haas to hopefully get Ward in foul trouble. From the little I've seen this year of MSU, Nick Ward looks great. I'm impressed. He's a tough matchup for Haas or Haarms. Haas doesn't quite have the foot speed or reactiveness for his moves. Haarms' length can cause problems, but Ward is so strong and finishes well around the hoop.
I guess Vince will guard Bridges? Bridges will be a tough matchup for anyone in college basketball. Their guard play and outside shooting is better than I expected and I thought they were good.
Izzo was really ripping into the refs in the first half when it was close. He was reaching Bo levels. It was more than his usual (at least from what I remember). I know some will call me out and would prefer Painter rip into the refs more, but I'm preferring his more civil demeanor towards the refs from simply a self-respect standpoint.
If VE guards bridges, who guards Jaren Jackson.? You know the 6’11 5 star one and done. Bridges is their 3 man and Mathias will get the first crack at him.
Sparty is tough march up for us especially if haas gets in foul trouble.
Wish this was at Mackey could be a top 5 matchup by Feb
Sparty is tough march up for us especially if haas gets in foul trouble.
Wish this was at Mackey could be a top 5 matchup by Feb
Good point and further demonstrating the challenge in matching up with MSU!
For me, I just want to see our team go up there and fight like hell from beginning to end, which I know they will.
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Maryland is missing 2 of their best players if they were playing that game is closer than what it is. Also I believe we best MS why haas will get Ward in foul trouble Ward is like Haas both are traditional back to the basket players Haas has the advantage bcuz of his size and weight. We match man for man. Harms will be able to guard JJ won’t be able to shoot set 3s and he isn’t good at putting ball on the floor to get to basket. Miles bridges outside has improved but he isn’t all that good at dribble drive or creating his own shot off the dribble. Right hand dominant but he can be contained. PJ or Carson can guard Winston put pressure on him make it hard for him to run their offense. Langford Mathis got him or Cline. Bench personnel schilling and Tillman are the only other bigs they play minimal min in that game Izzo won’t go that deep unless he is forced to. Tum tum does not score at all just energy guy and defender so carsen or pj got them. Nojel will cause Winston problems with his size and length. Maquaid the shooter spot up shooter Mathis or Cline or carsen. Still leaves Grady and JT as reinforcements. All I’m saying we are a very good defensive team like them seems like MS does more on defense bcuz how intense they play. To me it comes down to Haas getting their bigs in foul trouble and he will that leaves purdue shooters at an advantage. Painter is good at scouting each opponents so is Izzo will be a chess match by both coaches. Yes be tougher at their place but a game I feel we can win bcuz of the experience and depth and shooting we have. Izzo won’t go deep in his bench I’m telling you. MS pushes the ball in transition we gotta get back on defense but that game we can get if we do what we do we’ll use the clock to our advantage and make MS run some offense play our style rather than the style they want to play Fast. I feel good about our chances so I won’t just give mich st nothing purdue is a well oil machine that can play with any team in the country.
problem with playing our regular starting 5 is we give away a lot of height outside of the center spot
jaren has 3 inches over VE
miles has 3" over DM
langford has 4" over CE
winston has 2" over PJ
when i play ball and get matched up against someone 3-4" shorter, its just not a fair game
depending on how physical a game it turns out to be and how the refs call it - i would like to see us play Haarms at the 4, then we become the team with the size advantage. But for this to work, we need to play JT into shape by Feb so he can spot 20mins or so backing up the 4/5
jaren has 3 inches over VE
miles has 3" over DM
langford has 4" over CE
winston has 2" over PJ
when i play ball and get matched up against someone 3-4" shorter, its just not a fair game
depending on how physical a game it turns out to be and how the refs call it - i would like to see us play Haarms at the 4, then we become the team with the size advantage. But for this to work, we need to play JT into shape by Feb so he can spot 20mins or so backing up the 4/5
After the game FS1 was gushing about MSU (and rightfully so) and their offensive stats, etc. However, you could have said the same about the Boilers. MSU averages 1 more point per game. 2 less on defense, hence margin of victory is 23 vs 26. Three pt shooting, free throw % about the same. We have a positive turnover ratio, theirs is negative. One big difference is SOS, we win that. They may have depth but you can only play 5 at a time.
I agree. This is the first season that Painter is aggressively forcing opponents to adjust to his personnel rather than trying to "match up" with what the opponent has on the floor. Few team can create mismatches like Purdue can.
Stopping MSU's break, and they will struggle.
Honestly with most of this talk we should just forfeit the game against MSU and prepare for our next opponent. We have no chance, we are undersized, far less deep, and out coached.
In all seriousness, I enjoy good discussion, but lets also look at strengths as a way to offset these perceived deficiencies. We have a better shooting team, we can get key players in foul trouble, and we have a Porzingas and Carsen Edwards lol. Let us cross the MSU bridge when we get there. Still some games before then.
In all seriousness, I enjoy good discussion, but lets also look at strengths as a way to offset these perceived deficiencies. We have a better shooting team, we can get key players in foul trouble, and we have a Porzingas and Carsen Edwards lol. Let us cross the MSU bridge when we get there. Still some games before then.
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Purdue will be ready for them trust me. Any team can be beaten on any given day look what happen to Miami,NC and Kansas MS will get everybody best shot we’ll see how it ends up some games down the road.
Trust and believe I’m not over looking any team in the big 10 neither is painter and the team. I’m sure all eyes are on Nebraska this Saturday but I’ll admit MS getting all the attention rightfully so but our schedule was tough this season MS not so much but yet they picked to win it all. Purdue is very good got pieces like MS and don’t get the same attention like them but it’s ok. Keep winning is all we gotta keep doing the rest takes care of itself.
Ward has a lot more mobility than Haas so I would think he would be more like to get Haas into foul trouble than the other way around.
Left out are Goins ,Shilling and Carter off the bench, each one with different skills. Goins is very good defensively and is now shooting 3's (2/2 tonight); Shilling is our best screen defender and provides rebounding. Carter, who just got over a sprained ankle is a 6th yr senior transfer, is another big who can play in the middle of the zone and is a smart passer.
Should be fun game
Left out are Goins ,Shilling and Carter off the bench, each one with different skills. Goins is very good defensively and is now shooting 3's (2/2 tonight); Shilling is our best screen defender and provides rebounding. Carter, who just got over a sprained ankle is a 6th yr senior transfer, is another big who can play in the middle of the zone and is a smart passer.
Should be fun game
I’ve watched most of MS game schilling is strictly a defender Ben carter don’t even play check box scores Kenny goins will get very few min yes he can shoot only on the pass not of the dribble. Ward is only good 5 Feet from basket so is Haas but Haas has a size and weight advantage and Haas can guard inside the 3 point line which is we’re ward plays his position inside the 3 Haas can guard that. It will be a must TV game for sure but it will be a game purdue will be up for to play for sure.
I love our pieces and I believe we are the better starting 5. I have a feeling this game will be decided by the benches and I have faith our boys will step up when necessary.
Doubtful...Bridges is playing the 3 this season with JJJ there. I’ll bet Mathias starts out on Bridges with backside help (doubling) if Bridges goes to post him up. Jackson playing the stretch 4 is a good matchup for Vince as he could hopefully get him in foul trouble on the other end.
The interesting piece is how MSU decides to matchup with Purdue. Do they put Bridges on Mathias and hope that Vince doesn’t get JJJ in trouble being able to take him off the dribble or hit from the outside? Do they put Bridges on Vince and try to use JJJ’s length to disrupt Mathias’ outside shooting and passing ability?
The obvious key players for Purdue are going to be Haas and Boogie. I think those are the two spots where Purdue may have a slight advantage right now.
Biggie beat you guys twice last year. Izzo was smart to pick that game though for honoring Heathcoate.
MSU had some injuries last year, so it wasn't a typical year for them. We'll be going against two NBA lottery picks. So it will be no shame if we lose. however, after Duke, they are probably saying this is THEIR toughest game all year. I have respect for MSU and pride and confidence in Purdue.
We will see some time with Haarms on JJJ. He and Haas will need to stay out of foul trouble to do it though.
JJJ's shooting tonight is probably a bit of an uptick from his median. Up until tonight he was shooting 36.8% from three. Although he poses some match-up problems, I believe it is safe to say that against Purdue he doesn't get wide open looks like he did tonight against a full of fight but beleaguered Maryland team.
Winston: Thompson
Langford: Boogie
Bridges: Mathias
Jackson: Edwards
Ward: Haas
Really, Izzo is mainly playing 7 guys (McQuad & Nairn off the bench for 20.5 a piece) with Schilling and Goings getting spot minutes when needed. As good as Bridges is, he is only playing 28.8 minutes per game. It'll be interesting to see if Purdueis able to get their bigs in foul trouble again this year and what Izzo tries to do. If that's the case, Haas/Haarms could end up being defended by the 6'8 Tillman, the 6'9 Schilling, or little used Ben Carter at 6'8. Yes, MSU is a very good team but they aren't an overly big team like Purdue is capable of putting on the floor. Jackson is their biggest player on the floor and if Ward gets in to foul trouble, does Izzo go to Jackson to defend against Haas and Haarms or does he try with the smaller players listed above.
Everyone wants to talk about the issues MSU poses for Purdue...but has anyone served notice of the issues Purdue brings to the table for MSU? If Purdue plays to their strengths of going inside-out to establish Haas and Haarms on the inside to get clean looks from three, it could spell a long night for the Spartans. If Purdue plays the way they did against Arizona and in the first 15 minutes of the Marquette game, there likely isn't a team in the country that could beat Purdue (MSU, Duke, Kentucky, and a few others would end up being a very close game). If Purdue is hitting 14-18 three's along with Haas/Haarms getting 30 and 10 combined AND turning the ball over under 12 times, it likely is a formula most teams THIS SEASON couldn't beat.
That being said, MSU is the #1 team in the country for a reason and could easily pressure and bully Purdue in to a poor shooting night like it had against WKU and UT. MSU defends extremely well and rebounds well in a similar fashion to what Lipscomb was claimed to be good at...albeit at a much higher level. If Purdue continues to improve on their weaknesses as they have shown to be able to do (rebounding, turnovers, lulls in games with leads larger than 12), the game at MSU could likely determine the conference champion.
I was thinking Nojel on Bridges. We don't need Matias getting in foul trouble. Nojel's sole purpose while he is in, is to face guard Bridges.
I'm worried about transition D and rebounding but we definitely have an advantage inside. I can see JJJ getting four fouls in the first 5 minutes.
Unless MSU hits a high percentage from three I think we have a fighting chance.
Yes......I think four teams have finished with one regular season conference loss since:
'93 Indiana (17-1; lost @ Ohio State)
'99 Michigan State (15-1; lost @ Wisconsin)
'05 Illinois (15-1; lost last game @ Ohio State)
'07 Ohio State (15-1; lost @ Wisconsin)
Haas staying out of foul trouble will be the key to the game.
If IH doesn't play smart and picks up a dumb foul 45 seconds in, gonna be a long night. But, if he realizes that he's not a shot blocker, but a shot alterer, walls up, he won't be on the bench in the first minute.
On paper, it's a tough matchup, but then again, we could have one of those games where we hit 15 3's and shoot them out of the gym.
Hmmm... judging by CMP's tendencies, I would agree the matchups - at least initially - to be as follows (regarding the starters):
Winston: PJ (Cline)
Langford: Boogie (Nojel)
Bridges: Mathias (Edwards)
Jackson: Vince (Haarms)
Ward: Haas (Haarms, Taylor)
Mathias will have his hands full with Bridges, but the same can be said for Bridges trying to keep up with Mathias through and around all the screens. Of course, Vince will have a real challenge with JJJ. And again, JJJ may not be able to keep up with Vince when we're on offense. Honestly, I think Haas & Ward will be a push, as Ward had some trouble with Haas last year, and vice versa. The other two are a relative push, IMO. So my guess is that CMP tries to run a ton of screens - both ball and back screens - to get open looks. The problem for us - as is usual in MSU games - is that they are just as long, or longer than we are, and they are very good at defense, which leads them to pick a lot of our rotational passes that typically work against lesser teams.
What I would really like to see, which would flip the height advantage, would be as follows:
Winston: Boogie (PJ)
Langford: Mathias (Nojel, Cline)
Bridges: Edwards (Mathias)
Jackson: Haarms (Taylor)
Ward: Haas (Haarms)
I am not so sure about JJJ's outside game. When he is matched up against smaller players, he seems to have a lot of confidence in his shot. Against someone who is just as tall, or taller, I am not sure he will be as effective, and may very well try to drive the ball. Even then, both Haarms and Taylor are capable of staying with him and making him work for everything. Mathias would be a much more effective defender against Langford, and the Bridges/Edwards matchup would be closer to a push. Finally, as good as Winston is, I honestly don't think he can keep up with Boogie.
Of course, if we go without PJ, Izzo could go to something of a matchup zone with only two of our serious shooters (Mathias/Vince) on the floor. That would put a LOT of pressure on Boogie to hit from 3, and if he did, we could win the game with that lineup.
But either way, CMP will start out with his usual lineup to see how it plays out, before being forced to adjust to what MSU has on the floor.
A tough game, any way you slice it.
Winston: PJ (Cline)
Langford: Boogie (Nojel)
Bridges: Mathias (Edwards)
Jackson: Vince (Haarms)
Ward: Haas (Haarms, Taylor)
Mathias will have his hands full with Bridges, but the same can be said for Bridges trying to keep up with Mathias through and around all the screens. Of course, Vince will have a real challenge with JJJ. And again, JJJ may not be able to keep up with Vince when we're on offense. Honestly, I think Haas & Ward will be a push, as Ward had some trouble with Haas last year, and vice versa. The other two are a relative push, IMO. So my guess is that CMP tries to run a ton of screens - both ball and back screens - to get open looks. The problem for us - as is usual in MSU games - is that they are just as long, or longer than we are, and they are very good at defense, which leads them to pick a lot of our rotational passes that typically work against lesser teams.
What I would really like to see, which would flip the height advantage, would be as follows:
Winston: Boogie (PJ)
Langford: Mathias (Nojel, Cline)
Bridges: Edwards (Mathias)
Jackson: Haarms (Taylor)
Ward: Haas (Haarms)
I am not so sure about JJJ's outside game. When he is matched up against smaller players, he seems to have a lot of confidence in his shot. Against someone who is just as tall, or taller, I am not sure he will be as effective, and may very well try to drive the ball. Even then, both Haarms and Taylor are capable of staying with him and making him work for everything. Mathias would be a much more effective defender against Langford, and the Bridges/Edwards matchup would be closer to a push. Finally, as good as Winston is, I honestly don't think he can keep up with Boogie.
Of course, if we go without PJ, Izzo could go to something of a matchup zone with only two of our serious shooters (Mathias/Vince) on the floor. That would put a LOT of pressure on Boogie to hit from 3, and if he did, we could win the game with that lineup.
But either way, CMP will start out with his usual lineup to see how it plays out, before being forced to adjust to what MSU has on the floor.
A tough game, any way you slice it.
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