Lineup Changes are needed...

[boiler-deuce]

Curious, what Big Ten teams do you not see a weakness in that you can exploit?

If it's that easy, you'd think some of the best coaches in America could figure it out right? There are 3 Big Ten teams ranked! Shouldn't there be more? Our moron of a coach managed to get us ranked though.

It's January 4. You know the Matt Painter team that was ranked #3 in the country in 09-10? They started out the Big Ten season 0-3, including a loss to a crappy Northwestern team. It's not about where you are in November, December or even January. It's about how you develop as a team. We have some things definitely to improve on, absolutely.

But to be quiet all season and then explode like you've been sitting on your hands waiting to get all excited to bash Painter because you have some unreasonable vendetta against him is ridiculous.

You're full of crap. When you resort to lying then you expose yourself as a fraud. I've never called Painter a "Moron". If you think blaming him is a capital offense, get a life. I didn't call him a moron at any time. And, I have not been quiet all season. You're just choosing to act like I have. I've been calling this a "Scary good team" and "A final4 contender" until this sad display against Iowa AFTER the Butler shaming. And, I'm not "exploding", it just sounds dramatic for you to say that. just a plea to emotion and over the top rhetoric, I'm telling you that I think these losses mean something. You think the rest of the league won't watch tape of that hot mess? If Painter does not figure out how to win with this talented team, then he just isn't a good coach. Parade out a couple of good seasons, and how awesome you "Think" they would have been. Every loss, every cellar dwelling season, every player ran off, every embarrassing loss is followed with pathetic excuses and talk of yester-year in ancient history. with those deer in the headlight stare into the night sky. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Meh.

 

[lbodel]

You're full of crap. When you resort to lying then you expose yourself as a fraud. I've never called Painter a "Moron". If you think blaming him is a capital offense, get a life. I didn't call him a moron at any time. And, I have not been quiet all season. You're just choosing to act like I have. I've been calling this a "Scary good team" and "A final4 contender" until this sad display against Iowa AFTER the Butler shaming. And, I'm not "exploding", it just sounds dramatic for you to say that. just a plea to emotion and over the top rhetoric, I'm telling you that I think these losses mean something. You think the rest of the league won't watch tape of that hot mess? If Painter does not figure out how to win with this talented team, then he just isn't a good coach. Parade out a couple of good seasons, and how awesome you "Think" they would have been. Every loss, every cellar dwelling season, every player ran off, every embarrassing loss is followed with pathetic excuses and talk of yester-year in ancient history. with those deer in the headlight stare into the night sky. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Meh.

If you say a coach is the one thing holding a program back, it pretty much indicates you don't think he's very smart.

I've been talking about people like you all season on this board as you were declaring this a "scary good team" because as soon as some adversity hits, then you flip out on Painter and say he is the ONE thing holding Purdue back. You say we need more gym rats and smart players - Dakota Mathias fits that bill. He turned into a zombie in the second half with some god-awful decisions - the worst I've seen him make. It was a bad half of basketball against a good team. So be it. No need to do a complete 180 - find some xanax next time.

 

[gelesen]

If you say a coach is the one thing holding a program back, it pretty much indicates you don't think he's very smart.

I've been talking about people like you all season on this board as you were declaring this a "scary good team" because as soon as some adversity hits, then you flip out on Painter and say he is the ONE thing holding Purdue back. You say we need more gym rats and smart players - Dakota Mathias fits that bill. He turned into a zombie in the second half with some god-awful decisions - the worst I've seen him make. It was a bad half of basketball against a good team. So be it. No need to do a complete 180 - find some xanax next time.

I'm with you Ibodel. We're 13-2 with those 2 loses to top 20 teams. I guess you have to be undefeated to please every Boiler "fan". I just watched Bill Self turn an 11 point lead into a 4 point deficit in the last few minutes of the first half. What a moron coach......

 

[Boiler8285]

I'm with you Ibodel. We're 13-2 with those 2 loses to top 20 teams. I guess you have to be undefeated to please every Boiler "fan". I just watched Bill Self turn an 11 point lead into a 4 point deficit in the last few minutes of the first half. What a moron coach......

come on man. OU or Kansas would run us out of the building. With the 3 point shot and shorter shot clock you don't win with 4 guys standing around waiting to lob it inside. You better have some slashers and shooters. Like it or not the game today is full court up and down and Painter doesn't understand it.

 

[alwaysaboiler]

Bodel I mentioned why is the PG situation the way it is... The answer is Ronnie Johnson, Bryson Scott and who was the other kid who backed out of his scholarship? Three PG's that didn't pan out. Octeus covered up the issue for one year. To think Hill was going to be an answer right away was hopeful thinking. These guys didn't work out and the PG situation is where it is now... I would ask is Painter on the recruiting trail after a really good PG? He had success with Chris Kramer at PG.

BTW did anyone see Providence PG Kris Dunn against Butler last week. Wow that guy is a lottery pick. He destroyed Butler in 2nd half down 11. Put Kris Dunn on Purdue and lets see fans complain about Painter.

My opinion.
Painter is so rigid in his approach to the motion offense that it has stifled all positions but our centers. I think that it takes 2 years before most players are capable of becoming efficient with that offense. Why do we recruit shooters, they come here and then cannot shoot????? Why are we uncertain and hesitant about taking shots or passing the ball??? Its because our players do not know where they are supposed to be. Most are frosh and soph. Add in the fact that obviously Painter has recruited point guards that he thought he could change the way they played and mold them into what he wants as a player. RJ was never going to be but Bryson bled black and gold. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. You cant rewire a point guards mind easily. You mention Kris Dunn. How do we know he would do well in this offense??? We don't. I venture to say he would be a much different player in this system. Lewjack, Kramer and JO were gems. PJ physically lacks what is essential for a good point guard. I said after the scrimmage that I thought Dakota should be our point guard and I have not changed my mind.

 

[TJBoiler]

My opinion.
Painter is so rigid in his approach to the motion offense that it has stifled all positions but our centers. I think that it takes 2 years before most players are capable of becoming efficient with that offense. Why do we recruit shooters, they come here and then cannot shoot????? Why are we uncertain and hesitant about taking shots or passing the ball??? Its because our players do not know where they are supposed to be. Most are frosh and soph. Add in the fact that obviously Painter has recruited point guards that he thought he could change the way they played and mold them into what he wants as a player. RJ was never going to be but Bryson bled black and gold. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. You cant rewire a point guards mind easily. You mention Kris Dunn. How do we know he would do well in this offense??? We don't. I venture to say he would be a much different player in this system. Lewjack, Kramer and JO were gems. PJ physically lacks what is essential for a good point guard. I said after the scrimmage that I thought Dakota should be our point guard and I have not changed my mind.

Fair points. However Lewjack played alot as a freshman and I thought he was pretty good. Kramer was not a true PG and he played pretty well. Matt admitted after the season 2 years ago he had made mistakes in recruiting. As you pointed out square pegs in round holes. The program is still trying to recover. I mentioned Kris Dunn because Providence was down 11 to Butler at halftime. Dunn had 2 early fouls. Providence did to Butler what Iowa did to Purdue. It's funny I had to work missed most of 2nd half. I thought about the Butler - Providence game early in 2nd half when Iowa cut it to 12.

Purdue has to win against Michigan. If they lose that game this could snowball. You think what happened against Iowa was bad. If they lose to Michigan Thursday nite... OH BOY!

 

[BBG]

Fair points. However Lewjack played alot as a freshman and I thought he was pretty good. Kramer was not a true PG and he played pretty well. Matt admitted after the season 2 years ago he had made mistakes in recruiting. As you pointed out square pegs in round holes. The program is still trying to recover. I mentioned Kris Dunn because Providence was down 11 to Butler at halftime. Dunn had 2 early fouls. Providence did to Butler what Iowa did to Purdue. It's funny I had to work missed most of 2nd half. I thought about the Butler - Providence game early in 2nd half when Iowa cut it to 12.

Purdue has to win against Michigan. If they lose that game this could snowball. You think what happened against Iowa was bad. If they lose to Michigan Thursday nite... OH BOY!

If we lose Thursday, this forum will be like it was last year before the turnaround, all the trolls and chicken Littles will be calling for Painter to be fired and other nonsense.

I think we will win, but could be a tight game.

 

[Dryfly88]

come on man. OU or Kansas would run us out of the building. With the 3 point shot and shorter shot clock you don't win with 4 guys standing around waiting to lob it inside. You better have some slashers and shooters. Like it or not the game today is full court up and down and Painter doesn't understand it.

If anyone watched the OU/KS game and thinks we are even close to either one of those teams they don't understand basketball. That isn't an indictment of CMP, I'm simply saying we are not nearly as good as either of those teams.

 

[lbodel]

If anyone watched the OU/KS game and thinks we are even close to either one of those teams they don't understand basketball. That isn't an indictment of CMP, I'm simply saying we are not nearly as good as either of those teams.

I think if we played either those teams 5, 10, 20 times - no chance we win a majority of those, no doubt. But it's about when you play them in the NCAA Tournament and you're only playing them that 1 time. There was a string of years that it seemed like we played the eventual national champion in the NCAA Tournament - and we often gave them their toughest game. Obviously nearly every team beats other teams that are categorically better than them. On paper, we had no business being in those games.

Like I've said in other posts, Iowa is a team that's very good at forcing turnovers and one of the league's best at it. When you are "overmatched" in an area, you have to obviously do your best at containing it, but you also have to take what you have an advantage of and exploiting it as best you can. People often complain about the defensive focus of Painter, yet defense is often why we have been able to be in (and/or win) games against better teams than us. Against Iowa, we should have had a strong advantage rebounding the ball and in our interior game - we didn't have an advantage in either of those. That's more so why we lost, and it's certainly more controllable, than the reasons talked about ad nauseam on here.

But we can still learn from it. The first time is always the hardest. When we face a press again, hopefully we''ll be better. Maybe not great at exploiting it, but better.

This team needs to focus more on the controllables vs. the uncontrollables. Unfortunately, this board has focused on the uncontrollables. We can rebound the ball better, we can certainly take better shots and be more efficient offensively and we can make fewer unforced errors. If we face a high pressure team and have some turnovers because of it, fine. But a lot of our turnover problem has been unforced. That's what needs to get cleaned up.

 

[Dryfly88]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Of course in any 1 game we could beat any team. My point was directed to an earlier poster that referenced the OU/KS game and Bill Self blowing a lead during the game. I was simply saying that we are not even close to those two teams. What I watched last night would be very scary if those 2 teams were in the B10. That was it. I don't disagree with your assessment of the Iowa game or our team in general.

 

[CRBoiler]

With the 3 point shot and shorter shot clock you don't win with 4 guys standing around waiting to lob it inside. You better have some slashers and shooters. Like it or not the game today is full court up and down and Painter doesn't understand it.

I don't agree that there is no place in college basketball for 1/2 court offense, but I think you make a relevant point. Sometimes you need to get a bucket in the 1/2 court with relatively little time, and we are not very good at it & need to improve. IMO Iowa's press hurt us the most by shortening the amount of time we had to execute in the 1/2 court (even more than the change from 35 to 30 second shot clock). It takes us time to find an opening to feed our center. With 10 to 15 seconds burned getting by the press (which we usually successfully did) and another 5 to 10 seconds burned passing it over to the left side of the back court and then executing the weave, we literally had between 5 and 15 seconds to get the ball inside for a high percentage shot. We generally couldn't get it done, so we settled for a lower percentage shot.

What can we do about it? Ideas:
- Let Johnny Hill have the ball and try to dribble the ball at top speed past the press. This is the one thing Ronnie could do that I miss.
- Stop doing the weave so much. I understand we do it to establish a rhythm, but in situations when we've already burned time, I don't think we can afford it.
- Work on the midrange and slashing games - we need some guys who can get themselves a relatively decent shot with little time. Bombs away with off-balance contested 3's ain't gonna cut it
- Others?

 

[BBG]

I don't agree that there is no place in college basketball for 1/2 court offense, but I think you make a relevant point. Sometimes you need to get a bucket in the 1/2 court with relatively little time, and we are not very good at it & need to improve. IMO Iowa's press hurt us the most by shortening the amount of time we had to execute in the 1/2 court (even more than the change from 35 to 30 second shot clock). It takes us time to find an opening to feed our center. With 10 to 15 seconds burned getting by the press (which we usually successfully did) and another 5 to 10 seconds burned passing it over to the left side of the back court and then executing the weave, we literally had between 5 and 15 seconds to get the ball inside for a high percentage shot. We generally couldn't get it done, so we settled for a lower percentage shot.

What can we do about it? Ideas:
- Let Johnny Hill have the ball and try to dribble the ball at top speed past the press. This is the one thing Ronnie could do that I miss.
- Stop doing the weave so much. I understand we do it to establish a rhythm, but in situations when we've already burned time, I don't think we can afford it.
- Work on the midrange and slashing games - we need some guys who can get themselves a relatively decent shot with little time. Bombs away with off-balance contested 3's ain't gonna cut it
- Others?

You know that is a good point. This is the first year for the added rules right? It's going to take time to adjust the offense to move quicker since there is less time. The offense worked in the preseason because of the height imo... now that the team's are tougher further adjustments are needed and CMP has shown us just last year he is capable of doing it. We have the talent, just need to make it happen now.

 

[CRBoiler]

You know that is a good point. This is the first year for the added rules right? It's going to take time to adjust the offense to move quicker since there is less time. The offense worked in the preseason because of the height imo... now that the team's are tougher further adjustments are needed and CMP has shown us just last year he is capable of doing it. We have the talent, just need to make it happen now.

Yeh, I wonder if we would have lost the game if the 35-second clock were still in place. There would have been fewer possessions for them to catch up. And we would have had 5 more seconds to create offense after beating the press. I think it might just have been different. Interesting to ponder.

 

[lbodel]

Fair points. However Lewjack played alot as a freshman and I thought he was pretty good. Kramer was not a true PG and he played pretty well. Matt admitted after the season 2 years ago he had made mistakes in recruiting. As you pointed out square pegs in round holes. The program is still trying to recover. I mentioned Kris Dunn because Providence was down 11 to Butler at halftime. Dunn had 2 early fouls. Providence did to Butler what Iowa did to Purdue. It's funny I had to work missed most of 2nd half. I thought about the Butler - Providence game early in 2nd half when Iowa cut it to 12.

Purdue has to win against Michigan. If they lose that game this could snowball. You think what happened against Iowa was bad. If they lose to Michigan Thursday nite... OH BOY!

Kris Dunn and Providence lost at home to Marquette tonight...guess everyone has bad nights.

 

[BBG]

Yeh, I wonder if we would have lost the game if the 35-second clock were still in place. There would have been fewer possessions for them to catch up. And we would have had 5 more seconds to create offense after beating the press. I think it might just have been different. Interesting to ponder.

Which kind of sucks because it will force a lot of schools, like us, to change the offensive philosophy whether we want to or not. All to make college basketball more of an NBA farm league. ... ugh.

 

[Purdue0034]

The Michigan game won't be a easy out, but we should prevail. Any chance we can pull the redshirt off of Weatherford?

 

[FleeTheScene]

The Michigan game won't be a easy out, but we should prevail. Any chance we can pull the redshirt off of Weatherford?

Less than zero percent chance we pull the redshirt. Why would a point guard who wasn't heavily recruited with zero college experience be better than the guys we have?

 

[Purdue0034]

Less than zero percent chance we pull the redshirt. Why would a point guard who wasn't heavily recruited with zero college experience be better than the guys we have?

Well, Weatherford seems to be a pretty good athlete having played football as well and so does he really need a year to get himself and his body ready for college basketball. I realize a lot goes into the decision to redshirt, but perhaps circumstances have changed. I admit I have not seen him play in person, but he looked pretty good in the hi-lights from the Adidas Invitational. Many have compared him to Kramer, so that has me intrigued. As important as this season is (being the last season for AJ and Davis of course) and as important as the PG position is, I think it would be nice to have a third option when the going gets tough.

 

[Dryfly88]

Kris Dunn and Providence lost at home to Marquette tonight...guess everyone has bad nights.

You obviously didn't watch that game last night, no one had a "bad night".

 

[lbodel]

You obviously didn't watch that game last night, no one had a "bad night".

Everyone = the top 10 team of Providence that lost at home to a nowhere close to being ranked Marquette team.

My point with Providence (as mentioned above as some example of what we "could be" with a PG) is that they have an amazing PG - but they still have weaknesses on their team. Providence shot 37% from the field, 22% from 3 and had 16 turnovers. Oh, and Marquette was 18% from 3 and had 19 turnovers themselves.

Everyone has weaknesses and bad nights!

 

[Dryfly88]

Everyone = the top 10 team of Providence that lost at home to a nowhere close to being ranked Marquette team.

My point with Providence (as mentioned above as some example of what we "could be" with a PG) is that they have an amazing PG - but they still have weaknesses on their team. Providence shot 37% from the field, 22% from 3 and had 16 turnovers. Oh, and Marquette was 18% from 3 and had 19 turnovers themselves.

Everyone has weaknesses and bad nights!

I believe the "could be" was in reference to if we had a point guard like Dunn on this years team. Not that this years Providence team is "flawless" because they have Dunn. I don't know of anyone that is saying there is a flawless team out there. I think it's human nature to be more critical of your teams flaws. At no time is that more true than after an embarrassing loss like we just had.

The Providence game was nothing like the Iowa game except the home team lost. If that was your point then I can't disagree.