“I’ve got to be a better coach,” Painter said after the loss Thursday.
“In hindsight,” Painter said, “I should have got a foul there at the very end.”
Yep, always blaming the players!
Let's just keep fooling ourselves and making excuses - a long one
- Thread starter vilehoopster
- Start date
“I’ve got to be a better coach,” Painter said after the loss Thursday.
“In hindsight,” Painter said, “I should have got a foul there at the very end.”
Yep, always blaming the players!
Yes, I'm sure this is exactly what he's doing - he just is in it for the money, doesn't give a crap about winning!
This thread is full of morons.
Excellent post, I could not agree more.
I cannot understand why Painter can't learn that you have to attack the press; it is basketball 101.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results," Einstein.
March Madness was ruined for me also.
Started by someone who writes a big long post to bash our coach but doesn't watch enough college basketball to even know who Chris Mack is. As I said elsewhere, if you don't know who Chris Mack is then you don't watch enough college basketball to have a relevant opinion.
QUOTE="vilehoopster, post: 922392, member: 7018"]Yes, why don’t we keep fooling ourselves and making excuses and diverting attention from the real problem? Let’s keep making fun of other coaches and programs.
I know, let’s make fun of Crean. Put up that video of him tucking in his shirt as R. Smith runs by, or the video or him kissing his son. Let’s call him Clappy and make tanning jokes. Let’s ignore his Final Four (one more than Painter and Keady combined) and this year’s Big Ten title and that he’s still playing and we aren’t.
I know, let’s make fun of Fran at Iowa. He swept us this year and took Siena, (SIENA for God’s sake!) to as many NCAA tourneys in five years there as Painter has gotten Purdue in the last five years. Oh, and Iowa, even with their collapse at the end of the season, made it to the weekend, unlike us.
I know, I saw someone this weekend make fun of Mike Davis, who also has been to one more Final Four than Painter and Keady combined.
I know, let’s bring up all the criminal stuff at Michigan State. It certainly may be true, but doesn’t make me feel any better this weekend as I’ve lost all interest in March Madness AGAIN!!!
I saw one yesterday where someone blamed our collapse the last two years on Francis Cordova (am I spelling her name correctly?). Yes, let’s blame it on the female with the Latino name. How Trumpian of you.
I like the people with the Fire Cal, Izzo, Huggins, Shaka posts on here. They are being sarcastic and ironically pointing out that fans are over reacting to JUST ONE LOSS. That just kills me. If one of those coaches, any of them had finished last in their conference like Painter did two years ago, the year after they lost a CBI game at home, every single one of them would have been fired back then, every one!
Let's use the youth excuse; too many freshmen and sophomores.Yes, seniors are physically more mature and therefore better than freshmen, but I used to coach high school basketball, and by sectional time, after 20 or 21 games, I didn't consider my freshmen or sophomores as young, I thought of them as experienced varsity players. Counting exhibition games, Purdue had played something like 35 or 36 games before Thursday. By then, Purdue had nothing but experienced players. I have always thought the youth excuse by tournament time was silly.
I was really angry with the people who came on here blaming the loss on the “Same ole Lazy A. J. Hammons.” My God! If it weren’t for a couple amazing block in OT and down the stretch, we would never have made it to the 2nd OT. Also, the center is a dependent position. People have to throw him the ball. That our players went away from feeding the post with the game on the line, as they have in other losses this year, then that problem was never solved and corrected in practice; that is just bad teaching, which is 100% on the coach.
Let’s blame our guards. Forget that we had different guards (including Lewis Jackson, who was mentioned in the Doyal article as a difference maker) last year or back when we blew a late lead down the stretch against Kansas about five years ago. Different guards, but the same results when we quit attacking the defense with the lead and are trying to waste out the shot clock; we either get a terrible shot and come up empty, or as happened to Purdue this Thursday and to Lewis Jackson against Kansas, the guard is trapped out on the perimeter and the ball is stolen. How many game must be lost on this strategy before a coach learns that it just doesn’t work, how many? Will Painter learn after it has cost him in our last three NCAA appearances?
Let’s blame that we’re terrible against the press on the guards; we’ve been bitchin’ about our guards on this forum all year. Our guards were more than adequate with our front line to get to a Final Four this year, more than adequate. I feel sorry that they’ve been thrown under the bus by everyone including Painter somewhat in the Doyal article. Please listen to this: Unless it’s a total surprise, THE PRESS SHOULD NEVER WORK, NEVER! That’s why you don’t see it in the NBA unless it’s a desperate situation. All you have to do is not panic, reverse the ball, go up the other sideline, then attack the press for layups or dunks. Why can’t we learn that in practice? In practice, do what high school coaches do; practice against seven guys pressing until they learn and run them til they puke if they make a mistake. That Painter can’t teach how to break a press is just plain bad teaching in practice, bad coaching!! We were terrible against the press last year (Cost us the Minnesota game). How can a coach not fix this in over a year of practices and summer workouts? How?
Let’s go with the excuse Painter said to Doyal, we need that one player who can break down a defense. Painter always finds a way to blame the players. Accordng to Haas, I sure repeating Painter comments to the team after the game, we, the players, lost focus, or what he said to Doyal: we need better players. That is total BS: We had good enough players to get a 17 point lead on Iowa at home, a big lead at Maryland, a huge lead then blow it against Michigan State at home, and get a lead against Kansas five years ago, or a 7 point lead against Cincy with 50 seconds to go, or get a 13 point lead with 3 and1/2 minutes on Thursday. Those lost leads and losses are on the coach, who clearly does a poor job with late games X’s and O’s, holding the ball and quitting to attack, and who does a terrible job of teaching how to beat a press and pressure defense.
No, I am not over-reacting to the loss Thursday; I am reacting to all the BS excuses I see on this board.
I am the guy who since we lost at home in the CBI three years ago has said Painter should be on the hot seat. I am the guy who repeated that claim two years ago after Northwestern came into Mackey and controlled a game that put Purdue in sole possession of last place. A Purdue program, that when Painter took over, led the Big Ten in total wins.
Yes, I am mad and upset that for the fourth year in a row, the best event in sports, March Madness, is ruined for me. Am I really the only Purdue fan whom March Madness is now ruined for?
One more point, all you Painter apologists and Doyal are correct: Painter is not in any trouble of losing his job, but that doesn’t mean that he should not be. Hazell wasn’t fired this year. Does anyone believe that Hazell should still be coaching football next year? Anyone? So don’t use that fact that Painter won’t be fired as justification that Painter shouldn’t be fired.[/QUOTE]
I can understand your frustration, but your conclusions are wrong in so many ways. You ask people to stop making "excuses" as though the responses are somehow wrong explanations of the situation, yet you make unsustainable arguements to the converse.
Yes, Painter made mistakes in the Little Rock game. You bet. So does every coach in almost every game. They try things that don't work, or the other coach counters. Maybe they don't match-up well against the other team. Maybe they didn't bring in the right kids. Well guess what? These same actions/mistakes happen to plenty of other coaches - successful FF type coaches.
For example, you say that youth is just an excuse because at the end of the year, the freshman kids have already played 35 college games. Well, the upper-class kids have the same increase in relative experience, so the freshmen are still the freshmen. They are still a season behind. Youth is a valid reason for failing to do the right things in a game.
As for budget constraints - those are real. You think Crean gets good recruits? Well he spends more money on recruiting than any other BIG school. Money talks. Bullshit walks. If we want to get the kind of players like IU has, we had better bump up the recruiting budget.
Yes, the Cordova years were a disaster from a recruiting standpoint because of budget constraints. You make light of that problem when it was the fundament cause of 2.5 years of poor performance of our basketball team and the continued fall off of our football team. Just because this reason doesn't fit your hypothesis, you dismiss it. Wrong. In fact you imply some sort of racist reasoning on my part. I am offended by your imlication. Please understand that I blame the BOD as much as I blame our previous president. It has nothing to do with her genetic background.
You should know that I dislike the way you place all those who disagree with your dark and slanted view of the basketball program into the bucket of "Painter Apologists". It is a dismissive and inapproriate way to deal with people who put forth facts or theories that don't fit your perspective. I found myself offended by the high handed way you expressed your concerns and dismissed all of the other perspectives. I understand your frustrations. We are both Boilermakers and we want success for the basketball team, but I truly beleive you propose the wrong solution to fix these things.
I know, let’s make fun of Crean. Put up that video of him tucking in his shirt as R. Smith runs by, or the video or him kissing his son. Let’s call him Clappy and make tanning jokes. Let’s ignore his Final Four (one more than Painter and Keady combined) and this year’s Big Ten title and that he’s still playing and we aren’t.
I know, let’s make fun of Fran at Iowa. He swept us this year and took Siena, (SIENA for God’s sake!) to as many NCAA tourneys in five years there as Painter has gotten Purdue in the last five years. Oh, and Iowa, even with their collapse at the end of the season, made it to the weekend, unlike us.
I know, I saw someone this weekend make fun of Mike Davis, who also has been to one more Final Four than Painter and Keady combined.
I know, let’s bring up all the criminal stuff at Michigan State. It certainly may be true, but doesn’t make me feel any better this weekend as I’ve lost all interest in March Madness AGAIN!!!
I saw one yesterday where someone blamed our collapse the last two years on Francis Cordova (am I spelling her name correctly?). Yes, let’s blame it on the female with the Latino name. How Trumpian of you.
I like the people with the Fire Cal, Izzo, Huggins, Shaka posts on here. They are being sarcastic and ironically pointing out that fans are over reacting to JUST ONE LOSS. That just kills me. If one of those coaches, any of them had finished last in their conference like Painter did two years ago, the year after they lost a CBI game at home, every single one of them would have been fired back then, every one!
Let's use the youth excuse; too many freshmen and sophomores.Yes, seniors are physically more mature and therefore better than freshmen, but I used to coach high school basketball, and by sectional time, after 20 or 21 games, I didn't consider my freshmen or sophomores as young, I thought of them as experienced varsity players. Counting exhibition games, Purdue had played something like 35 or 36 games before Thursday. By then, Purdue had nothing but experienced players. I have always thought the youth excuse by tournament time was silly.
I was really angry with the people who came on here blaming the loss on the “Same ole Lazy A. J. Hammons.” My God! If it weren’t for a couple amazing block in OT and down the stretch, we would never have made it to the 2nd OT. Also, the center is a dependent position. People have to throw him the ball. That our players went away from feeding the post with the game on the line, as they have in other losses this year, then that problem was never solved and corrected in practice; that is just bad teaching, which is 100% on the coach.
Let’s blame our guards. Forget that we had different guards (including Lewis Jackson, who was mentioned in the Doyal article as a difference maker) last year or back when we blew a late lead down the stretch against Kansas about five years ago. Different guards, but the same results when we quit attacking the defense with the lead and are trying to waste out the shot clock; we either get a terrible shot and come up empty, or as happened to Purdue this Thursday and to Lewis Jackson against Kansas, the guard is trapped out on the perimeter and the ball is stolen. How many game must be lost on this strategy before a coach learns that it just doesn’t work, how many? Will Painter learn after it has cost him in our last three NCAA appearances?
Let’s blame that we’re terrible against the press on the guards; we’ve been bitchin’ about our guards on this forum all year. Our guards were more than adequate with our front line to get to a Final Four this year, more than adequate. I feel sorry that they’ve been thrown under the bus by everyone including Painter somewhat in the Doyal article. Please listen to this: Unless it’s a total surprise, THE PRESS SHOULD NEVER WORK, NEVER! That’s why you don’t see it in the NBA unless it’s a desperate situation. All you have to do is not panic, reverse the ball, go up the other sideline, then attack the press for layups or dunks. Why can’t we learn that in practice? In practice, do what high school coaches do; practice against seven guys pressing until they learn and run them til they puke if they make a mistake. That Painter can’t teach how to break a press is just plain bad teaching in practice, bad coaching!! We were terrible against the press last year (Cost us the Minnesota game). How can a coach not fix this in over a year of practices and summer workouts? How?
Let’s go with the excuse Painter said to Doyal, we need that one player who can break down a defense. Painter always finds a way to blame the players. Accordng to Haas, I sure repeating Painter comments to the team after the game, we, the players, lost focus, or what he said to Doyal: we need better players. That is total BS: We had good enough players to get a 17 point lead on Iowa at home, a big lead at Maryland, a huge lead then blow it against Michigan State at home, and get a lead against Kansas five years ago, or a 7 point lead against Cincy with 50 seconds to go, or get a 13 point lead with 3 and1/2 minutes on Thursday. Those lost leads and losses are on the coach, who clearly does a poor job with late games X’s and O’s, holding the ball and quitting to attack, and who does a terrible job of teaching how to beat a press and pressure defense.
No, I am not over-reacting to the loss Thursday; I am reacting to all the BS excuses I see on this board.
I am the guy who since we lost at home in the CBI three years ago has said Painter should be on the hot seat. I am the guy who repeated that claim two years ago after Northwestern came into Mackey and controlled a game that put Purdue in sole possession of last place. A Purdue program, that when Painter took over, led the Big Ten in total wins.
Yes, I am mad and upset that for the fourth year in a row, the best event in sports, March Madness, is ruined for me. Am I really the only Purdue fan whom March Madness is now ruined for?
One more point, all you Painter apologists and Doyal are correct: Painter is not in any trouble of losing his job, but that doesn’t mean that he should not be. Hazell wasn’t fired this year. Does anyone believe that Hazell should still be coaching football next year? Anyone? So don’t use that fact that Painter won’t be fired as justification that Painter shouldn’t be fired.[/QUOTE]
I can understand your frustration, but your conclusions are wrong in so many ways. You ask people to stop making "excuses" as though the responses are somehow wrong explanations of the situation, yet you make unsustainable arguements to the converse.
Yes, Painter made mistakes in the Little Rock game. You bet. So does every coach in almost every game. They try things that don't work, or the other coach counters. Maybe they don't match-up well against the other team. Maybe they didn't bring in the right kids. Well guess what? These same actions/mistakes happen to plenty of other coaches - successful FF type coaches.
For example, you say that youth is just an excuse because at the end of the year, the freshman kids have already played 35 college games. Well, the upper-class kids have the same increase in relative experience, so the freshmen are still the freshmen. They are still a season behind. Youth is a valid reason for failing to do the right things in a game.
As for budget constraints - those are real. You think Crean gets good recruits? Well he spends more money on recruiting than any other BIG school. Money talks. Bullshit walks. If we want to get the kind of players like IU has, we had better bump up the recruiting budget.
Yes, the Cordova years were a disaster from a recruiting standpoint because of budget constraints. You make light of that problem when it was the fundament cause of 2.5 years of poor performance of our basketball team and the continued fall off of our football team. Just because this reason doesn't fit your hypothesis, you dismiss it. Wrong. In fact you imply some sort of racist reasoning on my part. I am offended by your imlication. Please understand that I blame the BOD as much as I blame our previous president. It has nothing to do with her genetic background.
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I will let the rest of your tiraid rest on it's own shaky footings. I see other have addressed the points you made and they have corrected some of the errors in your conclusions.You should know that I dislike the way you place all those who disagree with your dark and slanted view of the basketball program into the bucket of "Painter Apologists". It is a dismissive and inapproriate way to deal with people who put forth facts or theories that don't fit your perspective. I found myself offended by the high handed way you expressed your concerns and dismissed all of the other perspectives. I understand your frustrations. We are both Boilermakers and we want success for the basketball team, but I truly beleive you propose the wrong solution to fix these things.
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Great post!!!!! And so very true. As a baseball coach, I always teach "situations"...men on base, where, out's, count, what the hitter did last time, where the hitter is in the box.....but when it comes time to make that play and one player forgets where he's supposed to be, all the practice, teaching, running....is just that.
I'm sure Painter and his staff go through situations every day. I'm sure they practice half-court shots to end and win every day. I'm sure they run ever day. I'm also sure they practice time management, work on getting the right shot, and lock down defense....every day. And I'm sure as hell that Painter and his staff want to win every game....and keep their big, fat, paychecks. But more than the money and the "fame" of coaching a high D1 program comes the pride in knowing you did it right.
But if Hill gets out of control at the end of the game trying to be the hero and falls to the floor and wastes that last opportunity....Painter isn't the one doing that.
Budget may be a factor but our player retention rate hurts much more, as noted in previous threads.
10 of the next 19 recruits did not finish at Purdue after the baby boiler class.
Budget didn't make those guys leave, didn't make painter 'settle' for low recruits (you mentioned a 2008 lower budget affecting later years like '11 and '12... 11 was 'bad' 2 man 3 star class, but '12 we had a top 16-20 ranked class and have classes with averaged rankings similar to top 5 teams since then).
Smaller non power five - vcu, Xavier, cincy, little Rock - we fall victim to teams with less talent, less money.
Purdue may be avg in the big ten in money spent, late in spending the money, but it's still more than non power five school resources.
More teams like gonzaga Wichita St butler etc don't just advance one year, they continually do well over years of tourney play now. Kentucky would be 5-pete champs by now if only budget and money mattered most.
Arguments about player talent always seem to be adjusted/twisted depending on the time of year and results too...
Iu - now, we want their top rated guys because they won the big ten and are still in the tourney. During off season/recruiting time, many of the same people argue how they are overrated, our guys are really comparable or better anyway, don't fit the system anyway, etc etc.
Smaller schools - now, we want ualr's more 'talented/athletc' guards. Somehow now they are better than ours. But During off season/recruiting time, who would want their unranked guys vs our 3-4 star gaurds (and only PJ was not top 150). One time we love rankings, another they don't matter.
Who said he doesn't give a crap about winning besides you? I have no doubt Painter wants to win and give him kudos for structuring his buyout well. Unfortunately giving a crap about winning and being able to do it in March are 2 very different things.
We want guys who win. Don't give a flying **** where they are ranked. Nobody here is clamoring for James Blackmon. Would we take Thomas Bryant? Sure. He helps them win games. Anunoby? Less heralded but a damn good player for them.
It's not about rankings. It's about production. They won the conference and advanced to the second weekend of the tournament so their players look more desirable right now. If they get thumped by UNC they'll fall out of favor real quick. That's how it works. Keep winning or fans will tear you down.
I think you missed the my point, and oddly, it is in the response you provided. Those kids were not retained because they were not good enough to play in the BIG. After the baby boilers, our recruiting was just crap. I don't absolve Painter from the blame, but I think most of the problem was the budget. Kids like Donnie Hale and others were the best we could do because we were not visiting like we should have been. We were not at games outside of the local area very often because we could not afford to travel as much as other teams.
You compare us to mid-majors, like VCU, Xavier, and Cincy. You would be surprised at the budgets those schools provide their basketball program compared to the budget under the previous administration. You can't look at raw basketball operations dollars. You have to look into what money was allocated to recruiting specifically. I don't have those numbers, but I will bet the recruiting budget at Cincinnati or Xavier was larger, significantly larger.
I won't delve into the player envy issues you describe because I have never posted anything about that. It was never in any response I have provided regarding this thread. I will agree with you that some of our posters are like whiny little kids pointing to the candy in another kid's hand and saying "I want".
Painter's no fool, gotta give him that. He can continue mediocrity for another 3 years and there is NO chance he is let go.
Sounds like you do. You realize that this is not some rarity for a buyout? Look at our football coach. This year it was $6+, next year it's $4+, etc.
Pretty standard practice. Why you find it unique or sneaky or whatever is beyond me.
- i don't disagree that budget was a negative factor, just maybe less of one than what you think is all. we had poor recruiting in 2011, but one year later with a similar budget we were top 20? i think painter just recruited guys that didn't necessarily fit the system, poorer character, plain old bad luck, etc. of the 9 lost in that period - 3 were 4-star guys unfortunately and another 4star just redshirted as an upperclassman, and another 4star was absent much of this year (whether we agree with rankings or not).
- i picked those teams since they are the non power 5 teams that beat us head to head in tourney play.
luckily for us, someone has done the work!
so, you were completely right regarding purdue... from 2009-2013 (mostly cordova years),
purdue ranked only 48th, spending a total of $700,613.
however, the others were very similar to lower -
cincy was 45th (711,452),
vcu 97th,
ark-little rock 93rd,
xavier not listed.
others of note -
auburn 4th, kansas st 9th (no returns there),
michigan st only 51st,
maryland 66th,
wisconsin 118th (298,597).
the next article summarized (the same data i believe).
teams who spent more, made the tourney more often. but once in the tourney, there was little correlation.
most of kansas' expense went to private jet use.
but purdue and wisconsin both tend to recruit more in the midwest than nationally.
"I see a lot of other people's money," Wisconsin associate head coach Greg Gard said, "and I think it would be hard to spend that much money. You really have to try."
http://db.desmoinesregister.com/col...ir=desc&searchterms[col2]=&searchterms[col3]=
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...cruiting-kansas-kentucky-louisville/24911927/
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Pretty sure you are the moron who claims guard play is not that essential to March Madness success.
We can , many of us, bicker back and forth, finger point, name call each other, belittle and berate but there is one absolute fact and that is simply this, when it comes to March and IF we make a post season tournament, coach Matt Painter is undeniably a loser.
His record of 11 seasons as head coach is proof that when the month of March is here Painter is a horrible coach in any post season tournament. Period.
So, what does he do about it?
Because if he doesn't dramatically change his lame, outdated philosophy and approach we will be 1 and done this time next year.
Painter you are not as good as you must think that you are. In fact, you were a ridiculed laughing stock all over the national media last Friday morning.
This is this kind of weird generalization that just makes me crazy.
IIRC Painter ran into the eventual national champion in 3 of the NCAAT's we played in. That is just a bad draw. This year we finished a close second to MSU in the BIGT, a team that was ranked #2 in the country. This year we finished the regular season ranked 10th. There is nothing mediocre about that body of work. I will grant you that we had a problem in this year's tournament, and I think it was on the coach for the most part. He accepted that blame as well.
Now, let me ask you a question. Did you stop learning, stop improving when you hit your 40’s? Do you really think 46 year old Matt Painter will not take this year's tourney to heart and learn from it? I think he learned some valuable lessons from this year's first round loss. Lessons we will see implemented over the next couple years in both style of play and in players recruited.
By the way, Painter is not any more of a laughing stock that Izzo or any of the other low # seed coaches that got knocked out in the first round by some directional college. The real losers here are the guys like you that have their ego so tightly tied to their school's team that they display irrational anger on message boards like this. Dear God, you guys are such a drag. How do you even get out of bed in the morning?
Mathboy, You talk about this year, this year, and then you use the term "body of work". It's not just this year. Three years ago was the home court loss in the CBI and two years ago we were last place in the Big Ten. I keep pointing out that this original post was not a reaction to one tournament loss. This post is about those two terrible years and the fact that I haven't see anything to show real change to the point where we can ever be a Final Four contender. Remember, Painter took over a program that was leading the Big Ten in conference wins.
It's like a football coach at Ohio State or Michigan coming in last place in the Big Ten and then the next two years getting his team to consecutive lower-tiers bowls. Would that football coach still be around?
To the guy at the top with the busty girl picture, did you read the entire article, not just those two quotes? Painter did very much the same thing for the Lafayette J&C two years ago. Headline says something like "Painter Takes Blame" (I really don't remember the headline). He started out with it's my fault, but very subtly he says stuff like (can't remember the exact quotes) I need to teach them to play harder to be more team oriented. I need to recruit tougher players. It sounds like he's accepting fault, but the bottom line is my players were soft, not team-oriented (selfish) and not tough. In the Doyel article, it's the same thing. It starts out but "I" am at fault, but then Doyel quotes Painter "privately" (really?) Painter needs "playmakers... to overcome roster deficiencies." Then he more or less blames the loss on our guards. Bottom line of the article: My players were not good enough. Really Matt? Our players, even our guards, were not better than Arkansas Little Rock? Our players weren't better than Cincy last year? Our players weren't better than Northwestern two years ago when they beat us at Mackey to put us into sole last place? Our players weren't better than whatever CBI team beat us at home three years ago?
Again, let's stop making excuses and fooling ourselves! Either Painter has to change or we need to change someone for Painter.
It's like a football coach at Ohio State or Michigan coming in last place in the Big Ten and then the next two years getting his team to consecutive lower-tiers bowls. Would that football coach still be around?
To the guy at the top with the busty girl picture, did you read the entire article, not just those two quotes? Painter did very much the same thing for the Lafayette J&C two years ago. Headline says something like "Painter Takes Blame" (I really don't remember the headline). He started out with it's my fault, but very subtly he says stuff like (can't remember the exact quotes) I need to teach them to play harder to be more team oriented. I need to recruit tougher players. It sounds like he's accepting fault, but the bottom line is my players were soft, not team-oriented (selfish) and not tough. In the Doyel article, it's the same thing. It starts out but "I" am at fault, but then Doyel quotes Painter "privately" (really?) Painter needs "playmakers... to overcome roster deficiencies." Then he more or less blames the loss on our guards. Bottom line of the article: My players were not good enough. Really Matt? Our players, even our guards, were not better than Arkansas Little Rock? Our players weren't better than Cincy last year? Our players weren't better than Northwestern two years ago when they beat us at Mackey to put us into sole last place? Our players weren't better than whatever CBI team beat us at home three years ago?
Again, let's stop making excuses and fooling ourselves! Either Painter has to change or we need to change someone for Painter.
If all you needed was guard play to make it deep in a tournament, a lot more of the lower seeded teams would be making it far.
The thing is, the mid-major schools have good guards - there's no shortage of 6' players in the country. There's not many 7' people, let alone with basketball skills. So these Middle Tennessee's can pull off a game of their life in that 1 single elimination game, but they typically cannot maintain it for a period of time by just relying on a couple guards (and a not great Syracuse destroyed them, led by a 6'7" guy that MTSU could not match-up with).
We lost against LR cause we turned into a guard oriented team and had little inside presence (not only offensively, but rebounding the ball we did horrible). Even taking the offense out in the paint, if we only rebounded an average game (LR beat us on offensive boards!), we would have out rebounded them by 15+ and won the game.
syracuse shouldn't have even been in the tourney, they got a ridiculously good seed and a golden path to the sweet sixteen, what a joke that team is. and what a joke UALR was as well
This isn't the first time you've posted this, and it probably isn't the first time I've responded about it either. What you're saying may certainly be true, but I think it's fair to note that recruiting budget is not the end-all, be-all that impacts recruiting. As others have mentioned, smaller schools with smaller budgets have had equal or better results, so money is far from the only factor.I think you missed the my point, and oddly, it is in the response you provided. Those kids were not retained because they were not good enough to play in the BIG. After the baby boilers, our recruiting was just crap. I don't absolve Painter from the blame, but I think most of the problem was the budget. Kids like Donnie Hale and others were the best we could do because we were not visiting like we should have been. We were not at games outside of the local area very often because we could not afford to travel as much as other teams.
A lot of it is pure elbow grease - time, energy, and effort. And this period of bad recruiting coincided with a period of time leading up to CMP and his wife splitting up. One would have to conclude there were some personal issues in play during that time, and that may very well have contributed to the lackluster results on the recruiting trail. All the rumors during that period of time don't need to be perpetuated or rehashed because that isn't the point; rather the point is that - whatever they were - they can't be dismissed as potential contributors to the amount of time/focus/energy on the recruiting trail.
I think you have a good point regarding Painter's personal problems during the dark recruiting period. His recruiting was really bad for about 4-5 years. If this was true for just men's basketball, I could accept the premise that Painter's personal issues might have driven the drop in recruiting.
The counter arguement points to drastic drops in recruiting in all major sports. Women's basketball dropped substatially, as soon as the previously recruited players left the system, slightly after the drop in men's basketball. Like the men's team, the women's team went from perenial winners to the bottom of the BIG. We also saw Joe Tiller quit in frustration, and his successors fail to recruit anything near BIG talent. We dropped from top 5 in the BIG to the bottom. I beleive this was caused by administrative interference, probably by restricting the budget used for recruiting.
Maybe there are independent reasons for both the women's BB team and the football team to see a simultanious drop in their ability to recruit better players. I will concede that this is possible. However, I usually put my money on the cause that does not require a rare coincidence of inconsistent events to explain the situation.
This is this kind of weird generalization that just makes me crazy.
IIRC Painter ran into the eventual national champion in 3 of the NCAAT's we played in. That is just a bad draw. This year we finished a close second to MSU in the BIGT, a team that was ranked #2 in the country. This year we finished the regular season ranked 10th. There is nothing mediocre about that body of work. I will grant you that we had a problem in this year's tournament, and I think it was on the coach for the most part. He accepted that blame as well.
Now, let me ask you a question. Did you stop learning, stop improving when you hit your 40’s? Do you really think 46 year old Matt Painter will not take this year's tourney to heart and learn from it? I think he learned some valuable lessons from this year's first round loss. Lessons we will see implemented over the next couple years in both style of play and in players recruited.
By the way, Painter is not any more of a laughing stock that Izzo or any of the other low # seed coaches that got knocked out in the first round by some directional college. The real losers here are the guys like you that have their ego so tightly tied to their school's team that they display irrational anger on message boards like this. Dear God, you guys are such a drag. How do you even get out of bed in the morning?
I apologize God.
Eleven years of Painter sure as hell makes him one damn slow learner
And your opinion wasn't even worth this amount of time.
Mathboy your last 3.4. or 5 post were excellent....as you can tell I don't post much......I lived in Lafayette 40 years.....but one important thing you forgot......Keady said I never got a recruit that Knight wanted.....Very very difficult to recruit to PU....Hell Painters dream school was to go to IU......Hummel would have gone to IU if it had not been for Mike Davis and Sampson mess......the 2017 Indiana high school class is one of the best in several years.....the good ones will go to IU or out of state......and it does not take a big recruiting budget to recruit Indiana players.....anyway your posts were excellent ......I didn't laugh at your posts like I do with TwinDegrees2
Sorry IU-Ron, not buying Keady never got a recruit that Knight wanted. Not buying that at all. Are you saying Knight didn't want Glen Robinson? Knight didn't want Russell Cross, who was the # 1 recruit in the nation when Keady signed him? He didn't want the triplets,none of those guys? Everybody wanted Todd Mitchell and the other two also. You really expect us to believe that? Typical IU mentality. So Keady was able to get a winning record against Knight with IU cast offs that Knight didn't want. Typical Big-Brother mentality. Your post is why we Purdue fans hate IU fans.
vilehoopster you are one of the reason I don't post.....uninformed...post only want you wished not the facts.....Im old and can remember PU 2 final 4s........also I had complimentary BB tickets next to press box 15 years and FB tickets 50 yd line 10 years......and in my younger days somewhat in the know.....and Keady was at my 50th BD party.......so just keep wishing...........you really bring out the worst in people...sorry
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I wanted to stay upwind but....
Tom Crean's buyout as of today is 7.5 million. It drops to 4 million in July.
Per Indystar October 2014 (1.5 years ago) it is about to drop to 1 mil. Did he get a raise/extension in the last 1.5 years? That would surprise me, but I don't keep up on Crean's contract much. I wouldn't be surprised if he get's extended after this year.
I agree with with a lot. But no way those guards are good enough to get to the FF. You don't have 1 guard who can beat a quality defender and get to the rim consistently. Mathias and Cline needs screens and space. Thompson is a 2 guard in a PG'S body. You needs players who can beat a defender and get an advantage to throw to a wide open Mathias or Cline. That is bad recruiting by the Coach.
No it's the same contract. What you read is that IU would get a credit for early termination of a million but at the time they owed him over 10 million to buy him out.
Coach recruited Scott to be that kind of guard, just as he did Ronnie Johnson. So that's two he recruited they just didn't pan out in other ways.
There are several coaches that could replace Painter. Two that come to mind are Bryce Drew and Archie Miller. Both have about 7 yr contracts, but could be manageable buyout in 2-3 yrs. Both are young and know the region.
Some others - Mark Fox at Ga. Pretty good recruiter. Billy Donlon at Wright State. More - Northern Iowa coach, Iowa State coach. Don't know age or contracts for these.
I've seen other people post this nonsense, as if it prove's something. Have you looked at Krzyzewski's or Calipari's coaching tree? What is your point?
I also find this criticism odd and not useful. When a critic can't find enough negative reasons to dislike an institution inside the lines, he starts coloring outside the lines in an attempt to prove his point. My best advice would be to put down the canyon and take a break from the effort.
When you say "a press should never work, unless it completely surprises you" you show how little you really know about the game. No sense going any further. Be happy in your ignorance!!!!
OT, but it kills me when people say this, and when people said it about RJ and Bryson (!) They are point guards, just not very good ones. period. what about them reminds people of shooting guards? it's a crazy, inaccurate cliche thing to say.
I do not believe your BS. Your response to vile was to talk about your seating and birthday party. For all I know, you had your birthday party at a bar or restaurant that Keady happened to be at. You in no way proved vile wrong. Geesh. Back it up or look like a nonsensical fool.
Huh, I didn't realize the coach was the one on the court with the basketball in his hands. Comments like yours are so mind-numbingly ridiculous they actually make my head hurt.
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