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Lets discuss recruiting

But you act like Indiana chose between Romeo and then Henry and Wieskamp. Who is to say Indiana can't get another 5* for 2019 (Brooks is in play still) or another solid 4 year player. Hell Indiana nearly had Henry and Romeo together and likely would have had Henry had Damezi and Hunter not committed 2 hours a part from one another. To be a good basketball team you don't need to find 4 or 5 4 year players every class. You need a mixture of 7-8 solid 3-4 year players and 2-3 5* or two and done players.
But you do need a coach to actually coach them. But you’re figuring that out this year.
 
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See I disagree with that. While Romeo may appear to not give a crap, you still can't deny his abilities to change a game. There aren't many players in the country, let alone freshman, who can go out there and give you 22 points on 11 shot attempts. That's just the reality. But at the same time I think there's multiple players on IU this year "who look like they don't give a crap" (on top of just some really poor talent) and it gets further magnified. Put Romeo on a more talented team and I think you see different results.
Incredibly overrated coming in, and, remains incredibly overrated if the graph that they showed last night during the game is accurate with him projected be drafted in the top 5.

The only way that guy is ever giving you 22 points on 11 shot attempts is if literally nobody is guarding him and he is shooting directly at the rim.

He has no investment in the program, or, this season...he is there (IU) by default and in college only because he has to be, not because he wanted to be (in either case)...and it is beyond evident every time that he plays.
 
I think it comes down to Painters pitch. He's being honest with the recruits, and you HAVE to respect that about a coach, and more importantly, a man.

I've said it all along, I think Painter tells the 5* recruits the same things as the 3* recruits, which is something along these lines.

"I'll utilize your strengths to the max, while hiding your weaknesses. But, you have to trust me, play my level of defense, and play for the team, not yourself. If you are not hustling, I'll bench you for the backup. If you are out there for yourself, you'll be riding the pine. But if you trust me, your teammates, do what I say and execute how we've practiced, then you will find yourself in the top25, fighting for a big ten championship, and a possibly a final four opportunity. But most importantly, you'll learn to respect yourself, your family, your friends, the fans, and your teammates. You'll leave not only as an eternal member of the Boilermaker family, but as a man who can hold his head up and be proud of what you just accomplished as a team, and a man."

Just ask PJ Thompson about it.

I truly believe Painter does everything right in coaching. The fact that he stays very competitive in this league with his style of coaching, tells you how good of a coach he really is. Not many kids can handle his style now days.
Not sure if this is the pitch, but if you are coaching a team, I'll sign up right now!
 
I'm beginning to wonder. I admit, I don't follow Indiana high school basketball. I'm beginning to think they may be a tad over-rated. Romeo sure doesn't look like what I'd expect from a 5 star athlete. JJJ was good and now plays in the NBA, but he certainly was not a mega star for MSU. Was Guy from Indiana? has he done anything great for Virginia? I guess Biggie was great at the college level.

Can somebody refresh my memory . What Indiana high school phenom has been a college All American and/or became a star in the NBA in the past 10-15 years?

I ask this because Indiana has a reputation of being a hot bed for high school basketball. Who are some of the fruits of that bed?
 
Incredibly overrated coming in, and, remains incredibly overrated if the graph that they showed last night during the game is accurate with him projected be drafted in the top 5.

The only way that guy is ever giving you 22 points on 11 shot attempts is if literally nobody is guarding him and he is shooting directly at the rim.

He has no investment in the program, or, this season...he is there (IU) by default and in college only because he has to be, not because he wanted to be (in either case)...and it is beyond evident every time that he plays.
To be fair, I did see Romeo make 22 on 11 shots one time in the layup line.
 
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See I disagree with that. While Romeo may appear to not give a crap, you still can't deny his abilities to change a game. There aren't many players in the country, let alone freshman, who can go out there and give you 22 points on 11 shot attempts. That's just the reality. But at the same time I think there's multiple players on IU this year "who look like they don't give a crap" (on top of just some really poor talent) and it gets further magnified. Put Romeo on a more talented team and I think you see different results.

Not unless he has a decent coach to develop that one trick pony... Have argued this before so will keep my opinion brief...Pack it in to close out his drive to the basket and he disappears....Will give him credit for hitting an end of game 3 pointer at both MSU and last night with his 24% 3 pt. Average.
 
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Based on HS he was a top 5 coming to IU. His game hasn't matured this year while guys like Morant have upped theirs appreciably. His likelihood to be drafted as high ha diminished and it's largely due to his perceived lack of drive and work ethic.
Morant isnt a freshman. Romeo was ranked 7th coming out of high school. Name 7 other freshmen that have had a better season than he has this year.
 
One of the problems I see with the one and dones is many players believe they are a one and done. And their attitude shows it. They become a spoiled diva. And then they start playing college ball and they aren't as good as they thought they were. And then the NBA scouts start losing interest and the slimeball agents stop losing interest. And their posse still wants their meal ticket. Or they have already sold their souls expecting that huge paycheck which will never come. And they end up not knowing what to do with their lives. Yes they have a college scholarship, but they never had any intention of staying in school or studying. They become lost.

My son learned a valuable lesson playing AAU ball and going to coach K's basketball camp. His dream was to play in the NBA. And then he realized how many others had that same dream and were better than him. What happens to all those kids in high school who believe they will be the next LeBron and then find out the truth? I feel kind of sad for the Ball brothers. It at least they have their shoe brand. So many others have nothing
 
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Morant isnt a freshman. Romeo was ranked 7th coming out of high school. Name 7 other freshmen that have had a better season than he has this year.
Just within the conference, and in spending no more than 30 seconds thinking about it, I came up with Weiskamp, Bradzeikis, Oturu, Williams, and Dosunmu...without doing anything more and just putting all 3 guys from Duke that are not just better, but, head-and-shoulders better, and there are 8 guys. Like say, that took less than a minute to think about...if I (or someone else spent the time), there are probably at least 10 others.

The guy is incredibly overrated...he was in HS...and remains so. I cringe for whichever NBA GM invests a top-5 pick in him, as, it is crazy to stake their job on that decision.
 
Incredibly overrated coming in, and, remains incredibly overrated if the graph that they showed last night during the game is accurate with him projected be drafted in the top 5.

The only way that guy is ever giving you 22 points on 11 shot attempts is if literally nobody is guarding him and he is shooting directly at the rim.

He has no investment in the program, or, this season...he is there (IU) by default and in college only because he has to be, not because he wanted to be (in either case)...and it is beyond evident every time that he plays.

So he’s overrated because you say he is? Never mind the countless # of mock drafts who say he isn’t overrated and is going to be a lottery pick? Guess I’ll take your word for it.
 
So he’s overrated because you say he is? Never mind the countless # of mock drafts who say he isn’t overrated and is going to be a lottery pick? Guess I’ll take your word for it.
He failed to lead his team to a State Championship...lead the Indiana All-Star team to its first loss in YEARS against a subpar Kentucky group, and, has underwhelmed yet more in his year at IU...I am comfortable with the notion that he will continue to disappoint at the next level.

He is coasting on raw athletic ability and reputation alone...others do as well certainly...but, that is all that it is. He does not care though (and makes it evident on a regular basis), and, I do not either...he was and is overrated...not because I say so, but, because he fails to make his team better and his overall game is not anywhere what it was thought or alleged to be.
 
So he’s overrated because you say he is? Never mind the countless # of mock drafts who say he isn’t overrated and is going to be a lottery pick? Guess I’ll take your word for it.
I agree with DAG here. I am not trying to insult your team. It is just that Romeo has not lived up to the hype. He may yet get drafted in the top 5, but I will be surprised if he does.
 
I agree with DAG here. I am not trying to insult your team. It is just that Romeo has not lived up to the hype. He may yet get drafted in the top 5, but I will be surprised if he does.

What hype? Most people on here projected Romeo would average 10-12ppg a game shooting less than 40% from the field. He’s not only one of the highest scoring freshman in all of college basketball, he’s one of the highest scoring players in the B10. I’d say Romeo has performed to expectations at minimum. Now Indiana as a TEAM may be underwhelming, but that isn’t because Romeo is overrated. There isn’t a freshmen in the B10 more valuable to his team than Romeo.
 
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What hype? Most people on here projected Romeo would average 10-12ppg a game shooting less than 40% from the field. He’s not only one of the highest scoring freshman in all of college basketball, he’s one of the highest scoring players in the B10. I’d say Romeo has performed to expectations at minimum. Now Indiana as a TEAM may be underwhelming, but that isn’t because Romeo is overrated. There isn’t a freshmen in the B10 more valuable to his team than Romeo.
He was hailed as a savior...by EVERYONE remotely associated with IU...he was referenced as the best Indiana HS player since Oscar Robertson, which thankfully is not as insulting to Oscar in that he was not purported to be better than him, but, it is an insult to so many others that are/were SO much better.

If he were as good as advertised or alleged, regardless of what his ppg average is (and to suggest it was projected to be 10-12 is an absolute joke), his team would not be buried at the bottom of the conference, lost 8 of 9 and he would not have been a complete non-factor at Purdue...they would not be riding two non-conference wins to keep their (barely) NCAA hopes alive.

There are multiple freshman better AND more valuable to their teams in the conference...and, there is not a single freshman in the conference that has been a greater disappointment or underwhelmed nearly to the level of Romeo.
 
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WARNING: Long Post

I have a real belief that many coaches, fans, etc do not understand the concept of recruiting to team build.

I have some examples I want to give here and hopefully people will read my post and discuss these things here with me.


So watching the Iowa-IU game last might sparked a thought in my head about recruiting rankings.

Here are the rankings of some star freshmen from around the conference who all play similar positions out on the wing.














So, as you see, Romeo Langford is rated much higher than the other 4 wings. However, Romeo Langford is a very likely one and done. So, even though he was very highly rated, he only helps for one year and has to be immediatelt replaced.

The other 4 all offer very good freshman seasons as well(some have even been better than Romeo Langford), but also appear to be multiple year players.

The question Im hoping will be debated here is this:

Who is really a more valuable recruit - Romeo Langford for one year or Wieskamp/Ayo/Henry/Muhammed for multiple years?

I genuinely feel like Henry will have a much better year for MSU later in his career than Romeo is having for an IU team that doesnt even appear tournament bound.

I genuinely feel like Iowa got the much better recruit in Wieskamp over Langford simply because they are similarly good(one could argue Wieskamp may have been better this year even) but Iowa gets multiple years, plus the growth that comes with that, while Indiana gets one freshman year of Langford, and the inexperience that comes with that.


Painter recently said - "You cant grow them if you cant keep them."

I believe he is onto something here. What, exactly, does one single five star one and done freshman offer a program if he isnt paired with other multiple 5 star one and done freshmen?


If Ayo Dosunmu leaves Illinois after this year, what exactly did Illinois benefit from having him? They arent making the tournament and now have to replace him.

If Romeo Langford leaves Indiana after tjis year, what exactly did Indiana benefit from having him? They arent making the tournament and now have to replace him.


On the other hand, Iowa and Ohio State have their Shooting guards for the future all while playing them major minutes and developing them along the way


Joe Wieskamp and Luther Muhammed should both be better and have a larger impact next year than Romeo was this season for Indiana, right?


I know on the surface this seems like a troll thread, but I think it's an interesting philosophical difference in IU recruiting Romeo Langford and then having to replace him next year as opposed to Iowa recruiting Jow Wieskamp, getting very good production this year, and both keeping and growing him next year as well.



What would or how would a single, random one and done help Purdue as opposed to a Trevion Williams type?

Would Purdue be better off or worse off RIGHT NOW if they had landed a flasy 5 star oad guard in Carsens class instead of him? A flashy 5 star OAD center in HAARMS class instead of him?

Seems unlikely to me.

Thoughts and/or Prayers?
I believe OADs are good in one scenario: a good team that just needs one difference maker to put them over the top.

Best example I can come up with is the 2003 Cuse team. Solid team with guys like Warrick, Duany and McNamara, but they became special with Melo added to the group. They got hot late and went on a run to the title.

In IUs case, I think you have to take Romeo, if for no other reason than you need to win games right now in order to build momentum with the program, and to internally build a winning culture.

Sort of like Brohm loading up with grad transfers his first year. Did that take away playing time from young guys? Sure, but you’re not recruiting Rondale Moore to a 3-9 squad.
 
I believe OADs are good in one scenario: a good team that just needs one difference maker to put them over the top.

Best example I can come up with is the 2003 Cuse team. Solid team with guys like Warrick, Duany and McNamara, but they became special with Melo added to the group. They got hot late and went on a run to the title.

In IUs case, I think you have to take Romeo, if for no other reason than you need to win games right now in order to build momentum with the program, and to internally build a winning culture.

Sort of like Brohm loading up with grad transfers his first year. Did that take away playing time from young guys? Sure, but you’re not recruiting Rondale Moore to a 3-9 squad.

Ok, Im willing to change my mind a little since this makes sense.
 
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WARNING: Long Post

I have a real belief that many coaches, fans, etc do not understand the concept of recruiting to team build.

I have some examples I want to give here and hopefully people will read my post and discuss these things here with me.


So watching the Iowa-IU game last might sparked a thought in my head about recruiting rankings.

Here are the rankings of some star freshmen from around the conference who all play similar positions out on the wing.














So, as you see, Romeo Langford is rated much higher than the other 4 wings. However, Romeo Langford is a very likely one and done. So, even though he was very highly rated, he only helps for one year and has to be immediatelt replaced.

The other 4 all offer very good freshman seasons as well(some have even been better than Romeo Langford), but also appear to be multiple year players.

The question Im hoping will be debated here is this:

Who is really a more valuable recruit - Romeo Langford for one year or Wieskamp/Ayo/Henry/Muhammed for multiple years?

I genuinely feel like Henry will have a much better year for MSU later in his career than Romeo is having for an IU team that doesnt even appear tournament bound.

I genuinely feel like Iowa got the much better recruit in Wieskamp over Langford simply because they are similarly good(one could argue Wieskamp may have been better this year even) but Iowa gets multiple years, plus the growth that comes with that, while Indiana gets one freshman year of Langford, and the inexperience that comes with that.


Painter recently said - "You cant grow them if you cant keep them."

I believe he is onto something here. What, exactly, does one single five star one and done freshman offer a program if he isnt paired with other multiple 5 star one and done freshmen?


If Ayo Dosunmu leaves Illinois after this year, what exactly did Illinois benefit from having him? They arent making the tournament and now have to replace him.

If Romeo Langford leaves Indiana after tjis year, what exactly did Indiana benefit from having him? They arent making the tournament and now have to replace him.


On the other hand, Iowa and Ohio State have their Shooting guards for the future all while playing them major minutes and developing them along the way


Joe Wieskamp and Luther Muhammed should both be better and have a larger impact next year than Romeo was this season for Indiana, right?


I know on the surface this seems like a troll thread, but I think it's an interesting philosophical difference in IU recruiting Romeo Langford and then having to replace him next year as opposed to Iowa recruiting Jow Wieskamp, getting very good production this year, and both keeping and growing him next year as well.



What would or how would a single, random one and done help Purdue as opposed to a Trevion Williams type?

Would Purdue be better off or worse off RIGHT NOW if they had landed a flasy 5 star oad guard in Carsens class instead of him? A flashy 5 star OAD center in HAARMS class instead of him?

Seems unlikely to me.

Thoughts and/or Prayers?
I think the best example of this is E'twaun and Eric Gordon. One was gone after a year and the other was a 2000 point scorer
 
Ok, Im willing to change my mind a little since this makes sense.
I think UNC and Nova currently have the best “programs”: a bunch of talented 3-4 year players (like Brunson) with a few 1-2 year guys sprinkled on top. That’s really what CMP needs help with the most. He’s got a good foundation of 4 year guys built.

Also depends what your alternatives are. If for example, IU could have had E’twaun (they couldn’t have) and they took Gordon instead, THAT would have been a mistake, in my opinion.
 
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