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Jesus Christ as Simple as A, B, C

“Love thy neighbor as thy self “. Isn’t that what Jesus believed and preached? Look in the mirror, buddy, while you go on your tirade about migrants.

Religion is used as a cover to justify hatred and conflict against people. Always has been. Look no further than Twin with his comment above about converting. Pitting one against the other. Or your comments about the border since you took it there.
Wow...Ol' Twin believes God's word, and the Bible. What says, "Salvation can only occur if you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" (my words based on facts) guides my light and path. I believe that we...including you...have the ability to choose eternal life or eternal death.

And as I stated before, if I'm wrong so be it, but if you're wrong I hope you like misery.
 
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What percent of the New Testament do you think is accurate and true?
If you are referring to - the name of the Lord. I think "name" is a good description but is too restrictive. Likewise, many translations use the word money instead of mannon. That is fine, but mannon equates to so much more.
 
If you are referring to - the name of the Lord. I think "name" is a good description but is too restrictive. Likewise, many translations use the word money instead of mannon. That is fine, but mannon equates to so much more.
No, I was thinking more in terms of your wish for people to go to the Word to disagree with you.

What is the point of that if you are simply going to say the Bible says this, the Bible says that?
 
I love these discussions and I welcome other opinions.

Larry, I agree with you, but I want all to be saved. By calling myself a metaphysical Christian, I am saying God is Spirit, and therefore I am calling on the Spirit to be saved. I think too many Christians say I believe in Jesus, and, therefore, I am saved. I think we have to be a light. I am also humble enough to realize that, in my thinking, Gandhi was saved even though he did not want to be called a Christian. I doubt God looked into his heart and saw Christ but said I am sorry, your theology is wrong. Gandhi did the most Christ-like act of the 20th century. All Christians should be humbled that he said that he would be a Christian, EXCEPT for the Christians he knows.

My prayer is that others defend their position, and I hope others will go to the Word to disagree with me. Please bring it on.
I agree sometimes we as Christians do not set the best example but fortunately we are not the standard to get to Heaven. Jesus Christ is the standard. And the standard is perfection. Gandhi was a great person and did great things but was not perfect. We are not saved by works but by grace. Ephesians 2:8,9. If everyone goes to Heaven how would Heaven be any different than the world we live in today? I personally would hate to spend eternity living in a place like this world. I want to spend eternity in a perfect place.
 
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I encourage Muslims to read the New Testament and see if the Holy Ghost can convince them why the Apostles all faced tremendous torture not to change their testimony.

HOW THE APOSTLES DIED. No doubt these dudes believed Jesus. Obviously you have seen this, but some might find their commitment interesting.

1. Matthew
Suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, Killed by a sword wound.

2. Mark
Died in Alexandria, Egypt , after being dragged by Horses through the streets until he was dead.

3. Luke
Was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous Preaching to the lost.

4. John
Faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge Basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution In Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered From death.
John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison Island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos . The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve As Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey . He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully

5. Peter
He was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross.
According to church tradition it was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die In the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

6. James
The leader of the church in Jerusalem , was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his
enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club.
* This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

7. James the Son of Zebedee,
was a fisherman by trade when Jesus Called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, the officer Walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and Knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

8. Bartholomew
Also known as Nathaniel Was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.

9. Andrew
Was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: 'I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.' He continued to preach to his tormentors For two days until he expired.

10. Thomas
Was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the Sub-continent.

11. Jude
Was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

12. Matthias
The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.

13. Paul
Was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational Doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.
 
What happened to live and let live and the golden rule, etc. I myself think it’s really that simple.
Many in the US want to be secular and go in this direction. We are in the world, but we are not of the world. When the world started, this is what happened when man ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Now, man knew more than God and began with live and let live. Men were physically stronger than women, and many beat them into submission. It doesn't affect me, so if the border allows sex trafficking, live and let live. Men teamed up with other men and beat other men and women into submission and made slaves of them. This does not affect me, so if the border encourages child trafficking, live and let live.

Christianity was the primary force that equalized women and banned slavery. Most countries in Africa and China do not respect women and still have slavery.

It seems like the Democrat party is moving toward being secular. Our country is great because we are built on Judeo/Christian beliefs, and we should, as a nation, strive to be a more perfect union.
 
I agree sometimes we as Christians do not set the best example but fortunately we are not we standard to get to Heaven. Jesus Christ is the standard. And the standard is perfection. Gandhi was a great person and did great things but we are not saved by works but by grace. Ephesians 2:8,9. If everyone goes to Heaven how would Heaven be any different than the world we live in today? I personally would hate to spend eternity living in a place like this world. I want to spend eternity in a perfect place.
You are in a perfect place! You are with the Lord. What can harm you? Are you afraid of divers temptations? Can you get sick and die? You and I have everlasting Life, so why am I not doing more? I want everyone to have this complete joy, to stop doing what I want to do, and to do more work to Love thy God and Love thy neighbor.
 
Wow...Ol' Twin believes God's word, and the Bible. What says, "Salvation can only occur if you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" (my words based on facts) guides my light and path. I believe that we...including you...have the ability to choose eternal life or eternal death.

And as I stated before, if I'm wrong so be it, but if you're wrong I hope you like misery.
How you talk on here is in direct contradiction with what Jesus preached, so pardon me if I think you’re absolutely full of shit.
 
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You are in a perfect place! You are with the Lord. What can harm you? Are you afraid of divers temptations? Can you get sick and die? You and I have everlasting Life, so why am I not doing more? I want everyone to have this complete joy, to stop doing what I want to do, and to do more work to Love thy God and Love thy neighbor.
Do you gents really love God, or is your faith just based on saving yourselves from hell?
 
Many in the US want to be secular and go in this direction. We are in the world, but we are not of the world. When the world started, this is what happened when man ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Now, man knew more than God and began with live and let live. Men were physically stronger than women, and many beat them into submission. It doesn't affect me, so if the border allows sex trafficking, live and let live. Men teamed up with other men and beat other men and women into submission and made slaves of them. This does not affect me, so if the border encourages child trafficking, live and let live.

Christianity was the primary force that equalized women and banned slavery. Most countries in Africa and China do not respect women and still have slavery.

It seems like the Democrat party is moving toward being secular. Our country is great because we are built on Judeo/Christian beliefs, and we should, as a nation, strive to be a more perfect union.
You skipped right over the golden rule part of my post. Wonder why that is.
 
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You are in a perfect place! You are with the Lord. What can harm you? Are you afraid of divers temptations? Can you get sick and die? You and I have everlasting Life, so why am I not doing more? I want everyone to have this complete joy, to stop doing what I want to do, and to do more work to Love thy God and Love thy neighbor.
You are right I am in a perfect place but not in a perfect world. There is nothing that can harm my soul but lots of things that can harm me physically and emotionally. I am not afraid of temptations but I am tired of fighting them. This body will get sick and die but my new body will live forever. I am looking forward to a time and a place where there is no more temptations, no more crying, no more mourning, no more death and no more pain. Revelation 21:4
 
You are right I am in a perfect place but not in a perfect world. There is nothing that can harm my soul but lots of things that can harm me physically and emotionally. I am not afraid of temptations but I am tired of fighting them. This body will get sick and die but my new body will live forever. I am looking forward to a time and a place where there is no more temptations, no more crying, no more mourning, no more death and no more pain. Revelation 21:4
Won't you miss your friends and family members who don't make the cut?
 
Won't you miss your friends and family members who don't make the cut?
I obviously don’t know exactly how Heaven works but I’m guessing that since there will be no crying or pain in Heaven that I assume we will not have any memory of them when we get Heaven if they are not there which is sad to think about. That’s why I try my best to make sure I do everything I can to make sure they make it.
 
I obviously don’t know exactly how Heaven works but I’m guessing that since there will be no crying or pain in Heaven that I assume we will not have any memory of them when we get Heaven if they are not there which is sad to think about. That’s why I try my best to make sure I do everything I can to make sure they make it.
Is your faith based on love of God, or fear of going to hell?

Asking because I think the idea of hell was contrived to scare people into believing, as in the case of Pascal and his wager.
 
Many in the US want to be secular and go in this direction. We are in the world, but we are not of the world. When the world started, this is what happened when man ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Now, man knew more than God and began with live and let live. Men were physically stronger than women, and many beat them into submission. It doesn't affect me, so if the border allows sex trafficking, live and let live. Men teamed up with other men and beat other men and women into submission and made slaves of them. This does not affect me, so if the border encourages child trafficking, live and let live.

Christianity was the primary force that equalized women and banned slavery. Most countries in Africa and China do not respect women and still have slavery.

It seems like the Democrat party is moving toward being secular. Our country is great because we are built on Judeo/Christian beliefs, and we should, as a nation, strive to be a more perfect union.
Christianity does not equalized women. The Bible says that women are to submit to their husbands.

Where did Christianity ban slavery? The Catholics at Georgetown University owned slaves here in the US.
 
Is your faith based on love of God, or fear of going to hell?

Asking because I think the idea of hell was contrived to scare people into believing, as in the case of Pascal and his wager.
My faith is definitely based on my love for God. But the fear of hell would definitely be a motivating factor in wanting to get to Heaven. Hell was not contrived to scare people into believing. It was created for a place for satan and his angels to spend eternity because they rebelled against God. Matthew 25:41
 
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Christianity does not equalized women. The Bible says that women are to submit to their husbands.

Where did Christianity ban slavery? The Catholics at Georgetown University owned slaves here in the US.
Mark 12: 30-31.
 
My faith is definitely based on my love for God. But the fear of hell would definitely be a motivating factor in wanting to get to Heaven. Hell was not contrived to scare people into believing. It was created for a place for satan and his angels to spend eternity because they rebelled against God. Matthew 25:41
Satan and his angels, but not your friends who don't make the cut, right?
 
Satan and his angels, but not your friends who don't make the cut, right?
No it was not made for them but there are only 2 places to go when we die and if we don't choose to go to Heaven unfortunately by default then we end up in hell.
 
No it was not made for them but there are only 2 places to go when we die and if we don't choose to go to Heaven unfortunately by default then we end up in hell.
How do you know there are only two places? Maybe the default is nothingness.
 
Since we are made in the image of God as Genesis 1:27 says we have an eternal soul. We will live some place forever.
Maybe something was lost in the translation. Eternal suffering seems completely incompatible with Christianity.
 
Maybe something was lost in the translation. Eternal suffering seems completely incompatible with Christianity.
Yes it does but there is 2 sides of God. God is love but God is justice also. If we don't follow His plan He has no choice but to apply justice. I am enjoying these dicussions where we can discuss civilly and without name calling. I have a 2 hour online class coming up so have to pause for now.
 
Won't you miss your friends and family members who don't make the cut?

If my friends or family don't make the cut, that was their choice. GOD gives us free will to make a choice. We either choose Christ as Lord & Savior or not. I choose Christ.

The nature of Heaven then becomes, what was practiced here on earth, worship of our Savior while we enjoy Paradise with Him & other believers.

The Bible says we will have no tears about those that don't make it.....which is logical given where we are at, and who is there.
 
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Yes it does but there is 2 sides of God. God is love but God is justice also. If we don't follow His plan He has no choice but to apply justice. I am enjoying these dicussions where we can discuss civilly and without name calling. I have a 2 hour online class coming up so have to pause for now.
Infinite punishment for finite crimes is not just.
 
Love your neighbor as yourself. Nobody who follows that commandment can be a slaveholder, right?
Exactly. That is my point. These professed Christians, like people say founded the US with Judeo-Christian values. These same people owned slaves. Then Thomas Jefferson, one of those professed Christians, wrote that BS in the Declaration of Independence that’s”All Men Are Created Equal”. This pedofile owned hundreds of slaves.
 
Love your neighbor as yourself. Nobody who follows that commandment can be a slaveholder, right?
You are right. I believe Christians are the biggest hypocrites. And that is a compliment because Christians have the highest values. My goal is to Love God, my neighbor, and be a Light to others. I want the US to form a more perfect union. Whenever I think of my goal, I realize I have failed miserably. Even worse is when I walk somewhere, and someone thinks I am a hypocrite because I didn't say hi to them. The media has them convinced that I am either a bigot, racist, Trump endorser, or sexist and definitely a hypocrite. The truth is that I was probably thinking about a priority and never saw them.
 
Christianity does not equalized women. The Bible says that women are to submit to their husbands.

Where did Christianity ban slavery? The Catholics at Georgetown University owned slaves here in the US.
This is why I take the inspired Word of the Bible.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

And also please look at:

And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Men have always loved their wives, but here it is crystal clear that you must Love your wife. In the world, men sexually love their wives, but when I dive deep into scripture, I see I must Divinely Love my wife and do things that are best for her. I am still the leader of the house, but I put my wife on a pedestal. Problems arise when I put my needs over hers or compromise being in the world.

And this vision that Christian men take leads to the equalization of women.

The same is valid for slavery. I am sorry that slavery did not end the minute Jesus opened His mouth. It took time. I am not mad that many of my ancestors were slaves, but I rejoice that over 300k white US men gave their lives to end slavery in America. Why didn't these men just live by the Golden Rule and live and let live? Slavery did not concern them.
 
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This is why I take the inspired Word of the Bible.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

And also please look at:

And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Men have always loved their wives, but here it is crystal clear that you must Love your wife. In the world, men sexually love their wives, but when I dive deep into scripture, I see I must Divinely Love my wife and do things that are best for her. I am still the leader of the house, but I put my wife on a pedestal. Problems arise when I put my needs over hers or compromise being in the world.

And this vision that Christian men take leads to the equalization of women.

The same is valid for slavery. I am sorry that slavery did not end the minute Jesus opened His mouth. It took time. I am not mad that many of my ancestors were slaves, but I rejoice that over 300k white US men gave their lives to end slavery in America. Why didn't these men just live by the Golden Rule and live and let live? Slavery did not concern them.
But then there are monuments for confederate soldiers that fought to keep slavery.
 
But then there are monuments for confederate soldiers that fought to keep slavery.
I bet 99.9% of the confederate soldiers were fighting for State Rights.
They never owned slaves.
Like you have posted many times the Civil War wasn't about freeing the slaves.
It just happened because Lincoln needed a purpose to support the war effort.
Thus the emancipation proclamation.
 
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I bet 99.9% of the confederate soldiers were fighting for State Rights.
They never owned slaves.
Like you have posted many times the Civil War wasn't about freeing the slaves.
It just happened because Lincoln needed a purpose to support the war effort.
Thus the emancipation proclamation.
  • True that the majority of whites in the Confederacy did not own slaves.
  • Also true that the Civil War wasn't about freeing the already enslaved; it was about the South wanting to secede to continue slave trade and slave holding, especially in and with the new territories and through importation of new slaves from Africa, which the federal govt had halted.
The entirety of the 'State Right' that the South was fighting for was the right to allow the slave trade in the new territories, and once the war started, the right to keep slaves in perpetuity without federal intervention.

I just read Pulitzer Prize winner Erik Larson's fantastic non-fiction book about the lead-up to the Confederacy's attack on Fort Sumter. Complete with how secession emanated out of Charleston slave holders with quotes, transcripts, and recorded Confederate diaries and Confederate Convention discussions leading up to secession, and from Confederate State secession declarations. Highly recommend that you read that book and be educated.
 
I bet 99.9% of the confederate soldiers were fighting for State Rights.
They never owned slaves.
Like you have posted many times the Civil War wasn't about freeing the slaves.
It just happened because Lincoln needed a purpose to support the war effort.
Thus the emancipation proclamation.
Wrong! I never said that the Civil War wasn’t about freeing the slaves. I said that Emancipation Proclamation was a war document that allowed slaves from the confederate states to join the Union Army as they needed more numbers. The slaves in the northern states were not freed. The Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery whatsoever like we were taught in K-12.
 
HOW THE APOSTLES DIED. No doubt these dudes believed Jesus. Obviously you have seen this, but some might find their commitment interesting.

1. Matthew
Suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, Killed by a sword wound.

2. Mark
Died in Alexandria, Egypt , after being dragged by Horses through the streets until he was dead.

3. Luke
Was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous Preaching to the lost.

4. John
Faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge Basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution In Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered From death.
John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison Island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos . The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve As Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey . He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully

5. Peter
He was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross.
According to church tradition it was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die In the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

6. James
The leader of the church in Jerusalem , was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his
enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club.
* This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

7. James the Son of Zebedee,
was a fisherman by trade when Jesus Called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, the officer Walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and Knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

8. Bartholomew
Also known as Nathaniel Was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.

9. Andrew
Was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: 'I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.' He continued to preach to his tormentors For two days until he expired.

10. Thomas
Was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the Sub-continent.

11. Jude
Was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

12. Matthias
The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.

13. Paul
Was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational Doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.
FWIW, if anyone has not visited the memorials in D.C. a visit may let you see quotes different than projected by the media.

I think I first encountered the deaths either in "More than a Carpenter" or "A case for Christ" which was a fascinating piece of information. I will return to Italy this fall. No matter the city, the churches offer a lot of beauty, frescoes, mosaics, sculptures and detail in all and we always try to see the insides of some. Since I never saw St Paul's basilica before, I want to see it this trip. Only his head and "maybe" part of his remains are suppose to be there. https://www.rome.net/basilica-st-paul-outside-walls. Nero and the destruction of the temple (69 A.D.) have a lot to do with biblical writing or insight IMO. We will again visit Orvieto. It is a small town with a fascinating duomo among some other interests. Here are some pictures of it. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/duomo-orvieto
The doors and each side of the doors tell a story of heaven and hell and the life of Christ. The first stone was laid in 1259. However, it has had repairs along the way. What I didn't know until maybe 20 years ago and my timelines all run together and hard to distinguish was that above and between the doors were bronze statues of the four gospels that are symbols of the writers. Some could miss this, but here is a bit on them.

"When you see the four Evangelists—Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John—depicted in art, one quick way to know who is who is to look at their symbols, which are frequently depicted with them.

You’ll see a man (usually portrayed as an angel), a lion, an ox, or an eagle. Sometimes artists utilize the symbols as stand-ins for the actual saints, so you’d need to know your symbology to figure out who is represented.

Let’s start by matching the right symbol with the right Evangelist:

Matthew: Man/Angel
Mark: Lion
Luke: Ox
John: Eagle


The great Church Father St. Jerome, who lived in the 4th and 5th centuries, gave us the pairings as we now know them. St. Gregory the Great corroborated his interpretation.

The symbols themselves come from the book of Ezekiel, who had a vision of God in the midst of these four creatures. The Church Fathers interpreted this as a foreshadowing of the four Gospels.

We meet the four creatures again in the 4th chapter of St. John’s Apocalypse or Revelations): “…the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like a flying eagle…”

Matthew’s symbol is a man because he begins his Gospel with Christ’s human genealogy, focusing on Christ the Man.

Mark is represented by a lion because his Gospel starts off with a roar.
Right away in the first chapter, we are confronted with the fiery words of St. John the Baptist, the “voice of one crying in the wilderness.”

Luke is accompanied by an ox, an animal of sacrifice. This is because the first event he recounts is the apparition of the Angel Gabriel to Zechariah, the father of St. John the Baptist. Zechariah, a priest, is offering sacrifice to God in the temple when St. Gabriel appears to announce the impending birth of St. John.

An eagle is the companion of St. John, because in his Gospel, St. John “soars” above earthly events to contemplate the Divinity of Christ. His narrative begins with these sublime words: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Mel Gibson in The Passion threw in Mary of Chapter 12 of Revelation. I've been in a first century underground church in Rome that few people probably know about and seeing the art, sculptures, frescoes and overall history can be quite interesting...to be able to go back in time and see some things...along of course with the wine, good food and gelato! ;)
 
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  • True that the majority of whites in the Confederacy did not own slaves.
  • Also true that the Civil War wasn't about freeing the already enslaved; it was about the South wanting to secede to continue slave trade and slave holding, especially in and with the new territories and through importation of new slaves from Africa, which the federal govt had halted.
The entirety of the 'State Right' that the South was fighting for was the right to allow the slave trade in the new territories, and once the war started, the right to keep slaves in perpetuity without federal intervention.

I just read Pulitzer Prize winner Erik Larson's fantastic non-fiction book about the lead-up to the Confederacy's attack on Fort Sumter. Complete with how secession emanated out of Charleston slave holders with quotes, transcripts, and recorded Confederate diaries and Confederate Convention discussions leading up to secession, and from Confederate State secession declarations. Highly recommend that you read that book and be educated.
Is this it?. My reading has slowed down a lot due to dry eyes. I may order it anyway since this is an area of interest to me. I generally agree with your comments, but would dwell more on your two bullets. I think some parsing gives a slightly more accurate perception, but I have covered this topic too much already. Anyhow, if the print is large enough I may entertain reading it. I know I have to finish Dave Shellhase's book before I see him in a couple of months. My problem is there is so much I want to learn and not enough time. I always thought I would become better versed on genetics and I haven't taken a first step... as well as a better understanding of the data, assumptions and calculations in Kenpom ;(
81HXFyqjFqL._SL1500_.jpg
 
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  • True that the majority of whites in the Confederacy did not own slaves.
  • Also true that the Civil War wasn't about freeing the already enslaved; it was about the South wanting to secede to continue slave trade and slave holding, especially in and with the new territories and through importation of new slaves from Africa, which the federal govt had halted.
The entirety of the 'State Right' that the South was fighting for was the right to allow the slave trade in the new territories, and once the war started, the right to keep slaves in perpetuity without federal intervention.

I just read Pulitzer Prize winner Erik Larson's fantastic non-fiction book about the lead-up to the Confederacy's attack on Fort Sumter. Complete with how secession emanated out of Charleston slave holders with quotes, transcripts, and recorded Confederate diaries and Confederate Convention discussions leading up to secession, and from Confederate State secession declarations. Highly recommend that you read that book and be educated.
I'm sort of a Civil War Historian thanks for the info.
My Great, Great Uncle fought for the Indiana 19th Infantry.
I have his diary. Amazing what the soldiers went through.
He first fought at a little known battle in Virginia Phillippi.

He describes leaving from Indianapolis by train and joining the Army of the Potomac.
He was at Battle of Grovetown, The Battle of South Mountain ( another unheard of battle that was really bloody for the 19th) Second Bull Run, Antietam.
Gettysburg was his last battle. He wasn't wounded but was given leave to go home.
Train, walking and hitching rides.
Almost 2/3 of the 19th was lost there. He recalls there was none left.
He rejoined the 19th for Petersburg which he said was now the 20th.
 
Is this it?. My reading has slowed down a lot due to dry eyes. I may order it anyway since this is an area of interest to me. I generally agree with your comments, but would dwell more on your two bullets. I think some parsing gives a slightly more accurate perception, but I have covered this topic too much already. Anyhow, if the print is large enough I may entertain reading it. I know I have to finish Dave Shellhase's book before I see him in a couple of months. My problem is there is so much I want to learn and not enough time. I always thought I would become better versed on genetics and I haven't taken a first step... as well as a better understanding of the data, assumptions and calculations in Kenpom ;(
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That's it. It's a fascinating read; especially as it builds in early April, 1861.

Erik Larson is one the the great historic writers of our time. Most of what he puts out is incredibly well-researched while staying as a page-turner.
 
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I'm sort of a Civil War Historian thanks for the info.
My Great, Great Uncle fought for the Indiana 19th Infantry.
I have his diary. Amazing what the soldiers went through.
He first fought at a little known battle in Virginia Phillippi.

He describes leaving from Indianapolis by train and joining the Army of the Potomac.
He was at Battle of Grovetown, The Battle of South Mountain ( another unheard of battle that was really bloody for the 19th) Second Bull Run, Antietam.
Gettysburg was his last battle. He wasn't wounded but was given leave to go home.
Train, walking and hitching rides.
Almost 2/3 of the 19th was lost there. He recalls there was none left.
He rejoined the 19th for Petersburg which he said was now the 20th.
I had a cousin that fought for Indiana. He was captured and died in Andersonville, but I know noting else. BTW it was an Indiana group that was instrumental in not only finding the three cigars of Lee's plan for Gettysburg, but holding the confederates at bay in Frederick, Maryland (The Battle of Monocacy) which some historians think was crucial in preventing the south from advancing on Washington.
 
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I had a cousin that fought for Indiana. He was captured and died in Andersonville, but I know noting else. BTW it was an Indiana group that was instrumental in not only finding the three cigars of Lee's plan for Gettysburg, but holding the confederates at bay in Frederick, Maryland (The Battle of Monocacy) which some historians think was crucial in preventing the south from advancing on Washington.
Should there be confederate monuments erected to honor the traitorous soldiers that killed your cousin?
 
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