Is this the BIG ONE? (criminal charges)

[Do Dah Day]

So, clearly there are stressed-out fans in many programs this evening. WE are not among them. "Tuesday was Armageddon for college basketball. Tomorrow and the tomorrow after that and the tomorrow after that promise to be worse."
https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-brings-armageddon-college-basketball-just-tip-iceberg-184524346.html

Is this the BIG ONE that most knew 'should' happen, but didn't expect it to?

If so, Woot Woot, because Matt and his program are squeaky clean ...

 

[tjreese]

So, clearly there are stressed-out fans in many programs this evening. WE are not among them.

Is this the BIG ONE that most knew 'should' happen, but didn't expect it to?

If so, Woot Woot, because Matt and his program are squeaky clean ...

...and it just seems like it was yesterday that some were talking about the corruption in the NCAA. This has been a good couple of days...got ED, Got Silk (Hunter) , got Williams starting to get players in different positions for a positionless team...players than can do "more" that their go to position...

 

[Do Dah Day]

...and it just seems like it was yesterday that some were talking about the corruption in the NCAA. This has been a good couple of days...got ED, Got Silk (Hunter) , got Williams starting to get players in different positions for a positionless team...players than can do "more" that their go to position...

I had a Dr.'s appointment today since I decided it was worth living longer after this week. He said "walk five miles/day, quit the bourbon, and have breakfast with close friends as often as possible." I want to choose just one ....

 

[Inspector100]

I had a Dr.'s appointment today since I decided it was worth living longer after this week. He said "walk five miles/day, quit the bourbon, and have breakfast with close friends as often as possible." I want to choose just one ....

Quit the bourbon ?????? Ouch!!!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

Quit the bourbon ?????? Ouch!!!!

Yeah, I'll just die sooner!!!

 

[tjreese]

I had a Dr.'s appointment today since I decided it was worth living longer after this week. He said "walk five miles/day, quit the bourbon, and have breakfast with close friends as often as possible." I want to choose just one ....

It was just a week ago the doc said my bloodwork was great except I was too sweet of a guy in that my sugar was the second highest ever for probably 15 or so years. I'm 6 pounds above my college weight and I know that weight has some fat in it and soooooo, I'm on 500 cal a day for about three weeks or so. I'm not ready to take a bigger pill and so I'll see how it tracks with my sugar. THEN, i can get me some Jack

 

[PU pit bull]

 

[Do Dah Day]

Annnnnd - the beat goes on ... and on .... and on ... "It’s thorough. It’s ugly. It’s unprecedented."
FBI brings Armageddon to college basketball, and it's just the tip of the iceberg
https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-brings-armageddon-college-basketball-just-tip-iceberg-184524346.html

 

[Do Dah Day]

Tuesday, college coaches were calling emergency staff meetings and coaches at all levels were consulting attorneys. This is an entirely different level than anyone has seen before, not a mostly toothless NCAA, but a motivated FBI and U.S. Attorney in New York looking to make a big media splash.

And splash they will. Even if there aren’t legal ramifications for everyone, the recruiting dirt that is about to get turned over will be unprecedented. The code of silence that has protected the sport and the NCAA’s system of “amateurism” is about to be cracked into a million pieces under FBI questioning, where a single lie is a felony.

The NCAA may be backed into a corner where it needs to blow up one of its signature revenue producers. And financial planners don’t just care about basketball. Football players make big money, too.

In basketball, nearly everyone has recruited Brad Augustine’s “1 Family Hoops” out of Florida, which is annually loaded with talent as one of Adidas’ signature programs. Nearly everyone knows powerful Adidas executive Jim Gatto, who was arrested, too. All of the indictments Tuesday stem mostly from the acts of one financial planner and one agent.

There are many more who operate the same way. Who knows when the heat shifts to them.

Big, bigger … biggest scandal ever.

 

[Dandelion1972]

Did any of the coaches collude with Russia?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Standing By......

 

[Do Dah Day]

Has there ever been a BIG TWO?

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Tuesday, college coaches were calling emergency staff meetings and coaches at all levels were consulting attorneys. This is an entirely different level than anyone has seen before, not a mostly toothless NCAA, but a motivated FBI and U.S. Attorney in New York looking to make a big media splash.

And splash they will. Even if there aren’t legal ramifications for everyone, the recruiting dirt that is about to get turned over will be unprecedented. The code of silence that has protected the sport and the NCAA’s system of “amateurism” is about to be cracked into a million pieces under FBI questioning, where a single lie is a felony.

The NCAA may be backed into a corner where it needs to blow up one of its signature revenue producers. And financial planners don’t just care about basketball. Football players make big money, too.

In basketball, nearly everyone has recruited Brad Augustine’s “1 Family Hoops” out of Florida, which is annually loaded with talent as one of Adidas’ signature programs. Nearly everyone knows powerful Adidas executive Jim Gatto, who was arrested, too. All of the indictments Tuesday stem mostly from the acts of one financial planner and one agent.

There are many more who operate the same way. Who knows when the heat shifts to them.

Big, bigger … biggest scandal ever.

It kind of reminds me of the steroid scandal in baseball in the late 1990's, which built momentum until pulled in the government and eventually permanently tarnished most of major league baseball's biggest stars including Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, Sosa, and ARod. Baseball still isn't what it was.

I don't think that this scandal is going to be resolved any time soon and I doubt the Louisville will be the highest profile institution implicated.

 

[PU pit bull]

Has there ever been a BIG TWO?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Has there ever been a BIG TWO?

Regrettably, Sir, I must inform you that I refuse to answer that question based upon the grounds that it may incriminate me.

It kind of reminds me of the steroid scandal in baseball in the late 1990's, which built momentum until pulled in the government and eventually permanently tarnished most of major league baseball's biggest stars including Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, Sosa, and ARod. Baseball still isn't what it was.

I don't think that this scandal is going to be resolved any time soon and I doubt the Louisville will be the highest profile institution implicated.

and Pal-Mary

 

[Mandeville LA]

Now that is funny. I forget to like posts but I got that one.

 

[Boilermb]

Quit the bourbon ?????? Ouch!!!!

I'm sure Triple D has given up bourbon per doctor's orders and now drinks scotch.

 

[Do Dah Day]

KaBAM!!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'm sure Triple D has given up bourbon per doctor's orders and now drinks scotch.

hmmmm .... I may go Irish over Scotch ....

 

[Boilermb]

hmmmm .... I may go Irish over Scotch ....

Any doctor I know would probably join you.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Regrettably, Sir, I must inform you that I refuse to answer that question based upon the grounds that it may incriminate me.



and Pal-Mary

Rick needs to memorize this line: "I'm not here to talk about the past."

 

[Ben Shadeland]

ESPN had a legal analyst on tonight, and he believes this is just the beginning. Once he said the following, I couldn't believe I hadn't thought of it before, but it really does make sense:

The individuals who've been caught are told, "If you lead us to others who have broken the law, we'll reduce your sentence." This gives the individual a double-motive to name names: a) to reduce his sentence, and b) to take down rivals, against whom he's been battling and has likely developed some bad blood.

This could very easily widen to a far-reaching takedown that not only reveals a great many cheaters, but also serves as a catalyst for real reform within major college athletics.

 

[Wolegib]

ESPN had a legal analyst on tonight, and he believes this is just the beginning. Once he said the following, I couldn't believe I hadn't thought of it before, but it really does make sense:

The individuals who've been caught are told, "If you lead us to others who have broken the law, we'll reduce your sentence." This gives the individual a double-motive to name names: a) to reduce his sentence, and b) to take down rivals, against whom he's been battling and has likely developed some bad blood.

This could very easily widen to a far-reaching takedown that not only reveals a great many cheaters, but also serves as a catalyst for real reform within major college athletics.

the guy who was wired tapped was supposedly caught a couple years ago and volunteered to be wired tapped for a lesser sentence. although his cover is now blown, he brought down 2 schools and 4 assistants and 2 players.

 

[heytherehoodoo]

If so, Woot Woot, because Matt and his program are squeaky clean ...[/QUOTE]
You have ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing this. I will wait until the investigation is done.

 

[mathboy]

If so, Woot Woot, because Matt and his program are squeaky clean ...

You have ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing this. I will wait until the investigation is done.[/QUOTE]
I think we have several perspectives from players' parents. Matt plays it honest and straight. However, if I were IU, well.... the blessings of Tom Cream may continue.

 

[tjreese]

Now that made me laugh!

 

[Do Dah Day]

I think we have several perspectives from players' parents. Matt plays it honest and straight. However, if I were IU, well.... the blessings of Tom Cream may continue.

We also have no assistant coaches living above their means and we have never had a player who, when he was being recruited, really fit the "elite player" mold of this specific situation.

 

[FirstDownB]

Hot takes:
(1) It is only a matter of time before race finds its way into this issue. Note the skin color of all four assistant coaches - those optics get picked up by the media very quickly in 2017.
(2) Federal charges will be limited to individual actors. The schools involved will likely have enough layers of protection to escape charges.
(3) The NCAA will bear the brunt of the responsibility and will act with systemic changes as opposed to punishing individual programs severely, particularly if several of their cash cow programs are involved. This scandal will be used to justify taking the lid off amateur status. Endorsement deals coming soon to a college near you.

 

[TheBoris]

It was just a week ago the doc said my bloodwork was great except I was too sweet of a guy in that my sugar was the second highest ever for probably 15 or so years. I'm 6 pounds above my college weight and I know that weight has some fat in it and soooooo, I'm on 500 cal a day for about three weeks or so. I'm not ready to take a bigger pill and so I'll see how it tracks with my sugar. THEN, i can get me some Jack

I'm a veterinarian. You have metabolic syndrome. You are pre-diabetic and your physician should have prescribed metformin.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Hot takes:
(1) It is only a matter of time before race finds its way into this issue. Note the skin color of all four assistant coaches - those optics get picked up by the media very quickly in 2017.
(2) Federal charges will be limited to individual actors. The schools involved will likely have enough layers of protection to escape charges.
(3) The NCAA will bear the brunt of the responsibility and will act with systemic changes as opposed to punishing individual programs severely, particularly if several of their cash cow programs are involved. This scandal will be used to justify taking the lid off amateur status. Endorsement deals coming soon to a college near you.

Interesting perspectives. I am sure #1 will happen, it always does, even more so in today's environment. #2 is probably right. I don't recall companies being charged for the actions of their employees. #3 MONEY reform will happen in some form, it should have years ago. But I am sure it will be spread out over all athletes. No idea exactly how, but I don't think one athlete will benefit greatly while others get nothing. If so, that opens a whole other Pandora's Box. PLUS, if indiviual players or their programs get great benefits, then where a player goes becomes even more important to a school ... creating greater problems than we now have.

And in #3, I am not so sure there won't be at least a few MAJOR PROGRAM punishments. I know, that is financially horrifying, but without at least a couple, I think the NCAA loses far more respect and whatever that may result in financially. If perhaps four programs, two very major and two semi-major, get some form of death penalty, the signal will be sent.

Interesting to me is that I cannot think of a B1G program that qualifies ... I just don't see MSU as fitting the profile of many others. There are probably programs that participated, but I just don't see them as the big players.

 

[boilermaker75]

I would think all the Department of Justice needs to do is subpoena these former 5 star recruits. Lying would be a felony. I don't think there are any consequences to the players for telling the truth. Unless they are still in school, in which case they would be ineligible.

 

[StickPurdue]

One reform that should be adjusted is the one and done policy. Make it so that if you take a scholarship, you must stay 3 years. That will help in so many ways. The players that want to be paid will go and get paid. The teams that aren't cheating will have more of a level playing field. It's the big change I hope to see more than any other.

 

[Do Dah Day]

One reform that should be adjusted is the one and done policy. Make it so that if you take a scholarship, you must stay 3 years. That will help in so many ways. The players that want to be paid will go and get paid. The teams that aren't cheating will have more of a level playing field. It's the big change I hope to see more than any other.

would a consequence of that be that the top ?30? players would play overseas rather than college?

Or do you hope the NBA establishes some form of "not yet" policy?>

 

[FirstDownB]

Interesting perspectives. I am sure #1 will happen, it always does, even more so in today's environment. #2 is probably right. I don't recall companies being charged for the actions of their employees. #3 MONEY reform will happen in some form, it should have years ago. But I am sure it will be spread out over all athletes. No idea exactly how, but I don't think one athlete will benefit greatly while others get nothing. If so, that opens a whole other Pandora's Box. PLUS, if indiviual players or their programs get great benefits, then where a player goes becomes even more important to a school ... creating greater problems than we now have.

And in #3, I am not so sure there won't be at least a few MAJOR PROGRAM punishments. I know, that is financially horrifying, but without at least a couple, I think the NCAA loses far more respect and whatever that may result in financially. If perhaps four programs, two very major and two semi-major, get some form of death penalty, the signal will be sent.

Interesting to me is that I cannot think of a B1G program that qualifies ... I just don't see MSU as fitting the profile of many others. There are probably programs that participated, but I just don't see them as the big players.

Yeah my #3 is the most uncertain. I just think the NCAA will find a way to make this lemon into lemonade and push the narrative that if it was legal for Addidas or Nike to give the money directly to the player then none of these under the table deals would have happened. And I think the media, who are almost universally sympathetic to the plight of the players will jump on board and run with that. People by and large will get over it. The NCAA can fall on the sword, protect its cash cows, the beat will go on, and this scandal will be used as an example of what happens when you don't allow people to make money off their own talents. Any remaining proponents of amateurism will be beaten down.

The inequality among individuals is somewhat unavoidable and much less of an obstacle if it is a sponsor doing the picking and choosing than if the school is creating the inequality. Inequality among programs is nothing new and whether or not that is exacerbated is likely to be ignored by the NCAA as long as the money is rolling in. I don't think they care whether or not it puts North Carolina basketball or Texas football at more of an advantage in recruiting. And honestly, those type of programs are already getting the elite players anyway.

I say these things not as an advocate, just where I see things going.

 

[StickPurdue]

would a consequence of that be that the top ?30? players would play overseas rather than college?

Or do you hope the NBA establishes some form of "not yet" policy?>

Honestly, I don't care where they go. Over seas is most likely, because the amateur league would struggle against NCAA due to the built in fan base that school provides. Not to mention, the current development league is unwatchable.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

One reform that should be adjusted is the one and done policy. Make it so that if you take a scholarship, you must stay 3 years. That will help in so many ways. The players that want to be paid will go and get paid. The teams that aren't cheating will have more of a level playing field. It's the big change I hope to see more than any other.

I agree with this idea in principle and have for a while. Unfortunately, IMO, from a practical standpoint, you'll need the NBA (and more specifically the players' union) on board with this, and I don't foresee that happening. Silver has indicated in the past he'd like to do something if he could.

Otherwise, I guess the NCAA could try to enforce it with some type of scholarship loss (going forward) when players left early...would that work?

 

[punaj]

Get rid of the 1 year rule. Let the top athletes go pro immediately and get paid. I'd rather keep college free of people that don't want to be there and take a scholarship that others would greatly appreciate.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Yeah my #3 is the most uncertain. I just think the NCAA will find a way to make this lemon into lemonade and push the narrative that if it was legal for Addidas or Nike to give the money directly to the player then none of these under the table deals would have happened. And I think the media, who are almost universally sympathetic to the plight of the players will jump on board and run with that. People by and large will get over it. The NCAA can fall on the sword, protect its cash cows, the beat will go on, and this scandal will be used as an example of what happens when you don't allow people to make money off their own talents. Any remaining proponents of amateurism will be beaten down.

The inequality among individuals is somewhat unavoidable and much less of an obstacle if it is a sponsor doing the picking and choosing than if the school is creating the inequality. Inequality among programs is nothing new and whether or not that is exacerbated is likely to be ignored by the NCAA as long as the money is rolling in. I don't think they care whether or not it puts North Carolina basketball or Texas football at more of an advantage in recruiting. And honestly, those type of programs are already getting the elite players anyway.

I say these things not as an advocate, just where I see things going.

A player's Union as Northwestern tried to get going would solve most of this ... I just don't see a single player getting ALL the benefit he "earns."

 

[mathboy]

I see many posts about what the “NCAA should do”. Many of us, including me, think of the NCAA as an enforcement-of-rules organization. That is not really its backbone. The NCAA was formed as an association of colleges that all agreed to play by certain rules. The initial expectation was that each of the agreement partners would enforce these rules within their organizations. Rules enforcement was not a primary NCAA role.

Unfortunately, many colleges, after agreeing to play by these rules, consciously and willfully broke those rules. Maybe they should be asked to leave the NCAA since they don’t seem to be able to follow those rules they said they would?

I think the best the NCAA can do is to (1) come down hard on the colleges for lack of institutional control, (2) consider any athlete that took money as a “professional” and ineligible to play another minute of college sports, and (3) put a life-time ban on any coach/assistant coach convicted of these charges.

I also think that the NCAA might consider banning Adidas and Nike from all colleges – hit this where the money and corruption came from.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Get rid of the 1 year rule. Let the top athletes go pro immediately and get paid. I'd rather keep college free of people that don't want to be there and take a scholarship that others would greatly appreciate.

I would support this 100%