Interesting article in J&C about recruiting visits

[bonefish1]

Sorry, didn't provide the link, but it's on the home page of G&B. Talks about players hosting recruits and being honest and transparent with what they're going to get at Purdue.
I think it's what most of us already suspected of Painter's program and after 15 years, it's not going to change.
Which leads me to this: Who is the most important person on a recruiting visit: The HC, host player, or 'lead recruiter' (ie.asst coach who's the best salesman)?
It's obviously a combination of all three, but I can't see Coach K sitting down with some 18 year old 5 star recruit and having the charisma and charm to convince him that Duke is it. Granted, I've never sat down with Coach K in a recruiting situation so maybe he's the best salesman in the world, but he certainly doesn't impress anyone when he's in front of the camera.
That said, I will always believe the HC is the most important part of the recruits decision.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I can't see Coach K sitting down with some 18 year old 5 star recruit and having the charisma and charm to convince him that Duke is it.

It is hard to imagine but I am sure his office is adorned with NCAA championship trophies, pictures with his players who were lottery picks, etc. You can have the personality like a can of dog food if you have his resume.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Sorry, didn't provide the link, but it's on the home page of G&B. Talks about players hosting recruits and being honest and transparent with what they're going to get at Purdue.
I think it's what most of us already suspected of Painter's program and after 15 years, it's not going to change.
Which leads me to this: Who is the most important person on a recruiting visit: The HC, host player, or 'lead recruiter' (ie.asst coach who's the best salesman)?
It's obviously a combination of all three, but I can't see Coach K sitting down with some 18 year old 5 star recruit and having the charisma and charm to convince him that Duke is it. Granted, I've never sat down with Coach K in a recruiting situation so maybe he's the best salesman in the world, but he certainly doesn't impress anyone when he's in front of the camera.
That said, I will always believe the HC is the most important part of the recruits decision.

Different schools probably have to do different things and I don't think it's a one size fits all kinda thing.

For example, Archie had to essentially stalk Romeo to get him to go there and Painter is having success with is approach.

Additionally I think in our case we need some consistency and I, for one, am glad Painter is honest and transparent. Last thing we need is for a recruit to be told one thing, get on campus and find out another and then you have turmoil.

From everything I have ever read from a recruit that either came to Purdue or didn't, they all seemed to mention his honesty to a degree in a very positive light.

 

[tjreese]

Different schools probably have to do different things and I don't think it's a one size fits all kinda thing.

For example, Archie had to essentially stalk Romeo to get him to go there and Painter is having success with is approach.

Additionally I think in our case we need some consistency and I, for one, am glad Painter is honest and transparent. Last thing we need is for a recruit to be told one thing, get on campus and find out another and then you have turmoil.

From everything I have ever read from a recruit that either came to Purdue or didn't, they all seemed to mention his honesty to a degree in a very positive light.

I like the honesty, but there are sooooooo many variables at play for most programs...

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Sorry, didn't provide the link, but it's on the home page of G&B. Talks about players hosting recruits and being honest and transparent with what they're going to get at Purdue.
I think it's what most of us already suspected of Painter's program and after 15 years, it's not going to change.
Which leads me to this: Who is the most important person on a recruiting visit: The HC, host player, or 'lead recruiter' (ie.asst coach who's the best salesman)?
It's obviously a combination of all three, but I can't see Coach K sitting down with some 18 year old 5 star recruit and having the charisma and charm to convince him that Duke is it. Granted, I've never sat down with Coach K in a recruiting situation so maybe he's the best salesman in the world, but he certainly doesn't impress anyone when he's in front of the camera.
That said, I will always believe the HC is the most important part of the recruits decision.

I'll choose a coach who is able to be successful at the high level Painter has been able to and his well respected and honest about everything over a successful coach who is slimy.

That being said, I think the lead recruiter is the most important while on the visit if it is football because that will traditionally be their position coach. In basketball, I would say it is the HC and probably the host player. If Carsen was a host player, that has to have a huge bearing on a recruit to have a returning All American walking them around campus.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I like the honesty, but there are sooooooo many variables at play for most programs...

Completely agree. I think we often times as Engineers try to find that one thing that can solve the problem and the variables as you pointed out are enough to make your head hurt.

And now with the new rules coming, it seems like it might get worse.

 

[Wolegib]

My son and I met Coach K as my son attended his basketball camp. Coach K didn't win my son or myself over with his personality. I wonder if my son was an elite player if Coach K would have been different towards him. We each have our own interests and driving forces.

 

[tjreese]

My son and I met Coach K as my son attended his basketball camp. Coach K didn't win my son or myself over with his personality. I wonder if my son was an elite player if Coach K would have been different towards him. We each have our own interests and driving forces.

there are some general things...desire for playing time...fame? However, each person weighs things differently and those weights vary a bit depending on other variables. Still...honesty does head off problems earlier in many cases...and with enough time...CARRIES WEIGHT

 

[rjmpu82]

When I was in high school, I wanted to be a teacher and a basketball coach. My mom, who was a teacher, talked me out of it. I still love sports but I am not sure if I could cut it as a coach at any level today. Hats off to Painter for knowing honesty may cost him a top level recruit here and there, but it will let him sleep at night, which is infinitely more important. I have said this before, I have a hard time understanding what some of the kids want today and how they could not choose Purdue over a variety of same level programs. Maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old man, but things like sportsmanship, respect and paying your dues has declined in the past 10-15 years. It used to be an honor to play at a high level collegiately or professionally, now it seems to be about nothing but moving to the next level of monetary gain. I have always felt that if you worked hard and gave your best effort and made good decisions, everything else would fall into place, including the money. Just my opinion, like I said I'm getting old and grumpy.

 

[BoilerIron]

When I was in high school, I wanted to be a teacher and a basketball coach. My mom, who was a teacher, talked me out of it. I still love sports but I am not sure if I could cut it as a coach at any level today. Hats off to Painter for knowing honesty may cost him a top level recruit here and there, but it will let him sleep at night, which is infinitely more important. I have said this before, I have a hard time understanding what some of the kids want today and how they could not choose Purdue over a variety of same level programs. Maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old man, but things like sportsmanship, respect and paying your dues has declined in the past 10-15 years. It used to be an honor to play at a high level collegiately or professionally, now it seems to be about nothing but moving to the next level of monetary gain. I have always felt that if you worked hard and gave your best effort and made good decisions, everything else would fall into place, including the money. Just my opinion, like I said I'm getting old and grumpy.

In the "real world", everyone is doing whatever they can to earn more money, while also putting themselves in a position to succeed. I'm not sure why it should be any different for basketball players. They should not only be thinking about themselves, but of their future families. If they feel a certain school will put them in better position to get to the pros faster, and earn more money when they get there, then who are we to tell them they are wrong for thinking that? I certainly was looking for the best monetary position coming out of college, as long as that position also offered stability, and wouldn't work me to death. I have done the same in the two job moves since then.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

In the "real world", everyone is doing whatever they can to earn more money, while also putting themselves in a position to succeed. I'm not sure why it should be any different for basketball players. They should not only be thinking about themselves, but of their future families. If they feel a certain school will put them in better position to get to the pros faster, and earn more money when they get there, then who are we to tell them they are wrong for thinking that? I certainly was looking for the best monetary position coming out of college, as long as that position also offered stability, and wouldn't work me to death. I have done the same in the two job moves since then.

You have delusional parents who have bent the knee toward their children at every turn and truly believe Jr is the greatest and best ever. Reality strikes quick when they aren’t that good and they are quickly lapses by better talent.

I also place blame at the “national” recruiting guys who get down on all 4s so they get the “scoop” of where Jr is going. The kickback system is crazy and everyone knows it. The NCAA figured the best way to beat foxes in the hen house was to let more foxes in instead stopping the from getting in.

 

[BoilerIron]

You have delusional parents who have bent the knee toward their children at every turn and truly believe Jr is the greatest and best ever. Reality strikes quick when they aren’t that good and they are quickly lapses by better talent.

I also place blame at the “national” recruiting guys who get down on all 4s so they get the “scoop” of where Jr is going. The kickback system is crazy and everyone knows it. The NCAA figured the best way to beat foxes in the hen house was to let more foxes in instead stopping the from getting in.

My post was more in reference to the elite guys that are almost guaranteed to be NBA guys. There are certainly parents who over hype their kids and that causes issues.

 

[tjreese]

In the "real world", everyone is doing whatever they can to earn more money, while also putting themselves in a position to succeed. I'm not sure why it should be any different for basketball players. They should not only be thinking about themselves, but of their future families. If they feel a certain school will put them in better position to get to the pros faster, and earn more money when they get there, then who are we to tell them they are wrong for thinking that? I certainly was looking for the best monetary position coming out of college, as long as that position also offered stability, and wouldn't work me to death. I have done the same in the two job moves since then.

I think what has happened between rjmpu82 and yourself is the elevation the fans have put on sports. It is business today and big business. The pay scale today in relation to "real jobs" is much greater than years ago. We...teh people are responsible for what has been created...

 

[BoilerIron]

I think what has happened between rjmpu82 and yourself is the elevation the fans have put on sports. It is business today and big business. The pay scale today in relation to "real jobs" is much greater than years ago. We...teh people are responsible for what has been created...

Agreed. I'm admittedly young, and have grown up more used to today's NBA pay scale.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

My post was more in reference to the elite guys that are almost guaranteed to be NBA guys. There are certainly parents who over hype their kids and that causes issues.

Yes but there are also elite guys who get pitched false goods - see Wendell Carter's mom and her tirade against coach K because of the false goods he sold her.

 

[neckster87]

Some schools use pretty coeds as recruiting tools, some the cash envelopes n others promise the world...cars woman n classes you don't attend!
Works for some not far others!
Keep up the hard work coaches!
Good luck against the cheaters
Yes I'm saying too many schools cheat again and again with no repercussions! Honesty is lost in the ncaa!
Nothing will come out of the fbi investigation...ever
Might as well be the ncaa investigating!

 

[rjmpu82]

In the "real world", everyone is doing whatever they can to earn more money, while also putting themselves in a position to succeed. I'm not sure why it should be any different for basketball players. They should not only be thinking about themselves, but of their future families. If they feel a certain school will put them in better position to get to the pros faster, and earn more money when they get there, then who are we to tell them they are wrong for thinking that? I certainly was looking for the best monetary position coming out of college, as long as that position also offered stability, and wouldn't work me to death. I have done the same in the two job moves since then.

You make legitimate and valid points. It would be my opinion that these players don't live in the "real world". While many may have grown up at or near the poverty level, the athletes we are talking about have to a large extent never heard the word "no". If not for their athletic skills and talents, many would never have been admitted to a major university. I have no problem whatsoever with seeking financial gain. They should look out for their future and the future of their family. However, very few actually make it to the professional level. At the end of their college days, if they have no marketable degree, the "real world" is now where they live and may not have the skills to do so. These are the cases where hard work and good decision making are paramount, otherwise all you have is a young man who played basketball for four years and then his lack of education and good decisions are exposed. This is not true for every athlete, but it is a common theme. This is where I feel Purdue offers an advantage over some place like M$U. Purdue players almost always get a degree and seem to have a support system after their playing days are over. Most go on to live productive lives. Players and parents coming out of high school don't often consider these benefits. Again, you make valid points and I appreciate your comments.

 

[BoilerIron]

You make legitimate and valid points. It would be my opinion that these players don't live in the "real world". While many may have grown up at or near the poverty level, the athletes we are talking about have to a large extent never heard the word "no". If not for their athletic skills and talents, many would never have been admitted to a major university. I have no problem whatsoever with seeking financial gain. They should look out for their future and the future of their family. However, very few actually make it to the professional level. At the end of their college days, if they have no marketable degree, the "real world" is now where they live and may not have the skills to do so. These are the cases where hard work and good decision making are paramount, otherwise all you have is a young man who played basketball for four years and then his lack of education and good decisions are exposed. This is not true for every athlete, but it is a common theme. This is where I feel Purdue offers an advantage over some place like M$U. Purdue players almost always get a degree and seem to have a support system after their playing days are over. Most go on to live productive lives. Players and parents coming out of high school don't often consider these benefits. Again, you make valid points and I appreciate your comments.

Agreed! I think I misunderstood your first post. I thought you were referencing the elite players that were all but guaranteed to make it to the NBA!

 

[rjmpu82]

Agreed! I think I misunderstood your first post. I thought you were referencing the elite players that were all but guaranteed to make it to the NBA!

I may not have been as clear as I needed to be. Boiler Up!!!

 

[Purdue85]

Yes but there are also elite guys who get pitched false goods - see Wendell Carter's mom and her tirade against coach K because of the false goods he sold her.

Oh, my word. Wendell Carter's Mom, Kylia Carter.

Taking the unbelievable opportunity her son was given (a full ride at DUKE) and comparing that to "slavery" and the "prison system".

EDITED. I shouldn't call her names. But the argument she made was preposterous.

 

[cheeseman18]

Oh, my word. Wendell Carter's Mom, Kylia Carter.

Taking the unbelievable opportunity her son was given (a full ride at DUKE) and comparing that to "slavery" and the "prison system".

EDITED. I shouldn't call her names. But the argument she made was preposterous.

Agreed. Her son was a stud at Duke, got lots of press, got a free ride, then got drafted 7th into the NBA. What the heck does she have to complain about?

If Duke hadn't got Bagley to play next to Carter, I think it's actually likely that Carter's draft stock would have been lower, because he would have had more pressure and been forced to do more than he was capable of by himself. Together, they were a great tandem that complimented each other and made each other better.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Oh, my word. Wendell Carter's Mom, Kylia Carter.

Taking the unbelievable opportunity her son was given (a full ride at DUKE) and comparing that to "slavery" and the "prison system".

EDITED. I shouldn't call her names. But the argument she made was preposterous.

Yeah she was a charmer. I get some of the frustration since I’m sure he was promised the moon then was basically recruited over.