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in the very few adn short videos of Vermont, Purdue should be in good shape

tjreese

tjreese

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Not once did I see Vermont play a zone in the very short clips. Have a couple of guys that step out an shoot 3s..one from EVansville (4 players form Indiana), but didn't see anything a whole lot different than most teams in approach. They will drive the ball..at least the little guard will and their forwards appear to be willing to work close to the lane starting out facing up as well as showing hands for a jump shot. Again, highlight clips for 2 minutes here and there don't tell much. If anyone has a whole game...recently played that would be better. Beating them last year in Mackey should help get some jitters out of the way and get the a decent start in this tourney

After seeing Purdue lose to Michigan and not play zone it was a little disappointing to see Minny and Wisconsin not play zone either. It wouldn't have hurt, both teams got beat.
 
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tjreese said:
Not once did I see Vermont play a zone in the very short clips. Have a couple of guys that step out an shoot 3s..one from EVansville (4 players form Indiana), but didn't see anything a whole lot different than most teams in approach. They will drive the ball..at least the little guard will and their forwards appear to be willing to work close to the lane starting out facing up as well as showing hands for a jump shot. Again, highlight clips for 2 minutes here and there don't tell much. If anyone has a whole game...recently played that would be better. Beating them last year in Mackey should help get some jitters out of the way and get the a decent start in this tourney

After seeing Purdue lose to Michigan and not play zone it was a little disappointing to see Minny and Wisconsin not play zone either. It wouldn't have hurt, both teams got beat.
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Purdue just needs to play its game. Avoid getting in foul trouble/turnovers, hit free throws and impose the game it wants to play. We have a big size advantage, but if they get sloppy with the ball, it can make it a problem.
 
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lbodel said:
Purdue just needs to play its game. Avoid getting in foul trouble/turnovers, hit free throws and impose the game it wants to play. We have a big size advantage, but if they get sloppy with the ball, it can make it a problem.
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The very limited viewings suggest to me that Haas plays in this one. Tehy get about 13 assists and I'm guessing Purdue has about 50% more suggesting a little more one on one play, but typical for what Purdue usually sees. They get about 15 off of turnovers adn over 4 blocks a game...makes me wonder how athletic the teams are they play against. It will take a bad game by Purdue to get beat I suspect...more than just shooting bad from the perimeter.
 
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tjreese said:
The very limited viewings suggest to me that Haas plays in this one. Tehy get about 13 assists and I'm guessing Purdue has about 50% more suggesting a little more one on one play, but typical for what Purdue usually sees. They get about 15 off of turnovers adn over 4 blocks a game...makes me wonder how athletic the teams are they play against. It will take a bad game by Purdue to get beat I suspect...more than just shooting bad from the perimeter.
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In what scenario would you suggest Haas not play or not play the goal of 25 minutes?
 
Dennis H. said:
Some analyst on satellite radio just predicted that Vermont would beat us
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okay, the game starts out 0 to 0 and anything is possible. My money says Boilers, the analyst probably bets teh same way. :)
 
todd brewster said:
In what scenario would you suggest Haas not play or not play the goal of 25 minutes?
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Whole lot of things for that, but let me try to see if I can give my opinion on what I think you are asking. Purdue typically plays two bigs all game. That allows substitution and the ability or versatility of Vince and Biggie to use whatever advantage they have. Although there amy be times I would like to see all three for very short minutes, we don't for the reasons I listed. That means there are 80 minutes to split up between those three and if Haas gets 25 that would put him on equal basis with Vince and Biggie essentailly..and with all the strengths Haas has, he is limited as far as versatility.

Now that said, there are some games I would love for him to get more than 25 if he can do it. Haas is most effective when not playing athletic quick players and doesn't have to move that mass quickly as a lot of basketball has to do with the time to cover a certain distance. I actually wanted Haas to see more time in Michigan late in the game becasue I thought by then Michigan was out of sync on the three ball a little and he was effective inside.

Relative to Vermont and again ...very short clips can be misleading...I didn't catch great athletes with an abundance of quickness that he would have to guard. They seemed to be skillful but used to being effective inside (bigs) and they may not be that effective inside against Purdue and may have to only use their perimeter game. Now full disclosure...I have said for some time that "I" prefer athletic players that can go outside and in and to play two 4 type players with length than a true center. That is me..and why I loved the bookends of Wagner and Wilson to have on a team because they cause all kinds of mismatches. A true center is a change up for some teams though just like Purdue playing a motion offense that reads what the defense gives and a lot of off the ball stuff instead of so many ball screens. Think of Purdue as Fidelity Contrarian... :)

If I never answered what you were wanting try again more specifically and I'll try to give my opinion. :)
 
tjreese said:
Not once did I see Vermont play a zone in the very short clips. Have a couple of guys that step out an shoot 3s..one from EVansville (4 players form Indiana), but didn't see anything a whole lot different than most teams in approach. They will drive the ball..at least the little guard will and their forwards appear to be willing to work close to the lane starting out facing up as well as showing hands for a jump shot. Again, highlight clips for 2 minutes here and there don't tell much. If anyone has a whole game...recently played that would be better. Beating them last year in Mackey should help get some jitters out of the way and get the a decent start in this tourney

After seeing Purdue lose to Michigan and not play zone it was a little disappointing to see Minny and Wisconsin not play zone either. It wouldn't have hurt, both teams got beat.
Click to expand...
I hate to bad talk another team but....Happened to watch quite a bit of Vermont/Albany yesterday as it was the only game on at 11am. Albany should have won (lost by 3), game was played on Vermonts home court. Albany had a guard who jacked up 1/2 his teams shots hitting only 6 of them.They still led by 9 with ~ 9 mins left in game, but fell apart from there. Albany had a 6'6" guy come off the bench and score ~ 16pts inside. Vermont didn't appear overly athletic to me, we should really,really dominate inside. There was an abundance of blocks by both teams, probably 15 total, but this was not high flying shot blocking going on. Everyone on the court looked between 6'3" and 6'6". We should win handily, but crazy things happen in the tourney
 
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PUBV said:
I hate to bad talk another team but....Happened to watch quite a bit of Vermont/Albany yesterday as it was the only game on at 11am. Albany should have won (lost by 3), game was played on Vermonts home court. Albany had a guard who jacked up 1/2 his teams shots hitting only 6 of them.They still led by 9 with ~ 9 mins left in game, but fell apart from there. Albany had a 6'6" guy come off the bench and score ~ 16pts inside. Vermont didn't appear overly athletic to me, we should really,really dominate inside. There was an abundance of blocks by both teams, probably 15 total, but this was not high flying shot blocking going on. Everyone on the court looked between 6'3" and 6'6". We should win handily, but crazy things happen in the tourney
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that last few minutes was one of the clips on youtube. I also assume that if Purdue wins and plays Iowa State that Purdue will have more knowledge than just a few phone calls and tape review with Bruce Webber having played them. Iowa state played some good teams really tough...pulling for Nevada to have a magic moment... :)
 
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I'm more worried about the second round game. Probably ISU. They have good guard play, and enough inside stuff to cause us grief. Anyone got a bead on them yet?
 
tjreese said:
that last few minutes was one of the clips on youtube. I also assume that if Purdue wins and plays Iowa State that Purdue will have more knowledge than just a few phone calls and tape review with Bruce Webber having played them. Iowa state played some good teams really tough...pulling for Nevada to have a magic moment... :)
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If we meet Nevada round 2, we meet up with Kendall Stevens(although ineligible yet)
 
Inspector100 said:
Whew! Boy I feel better now. The idea of them playing a zone could keep me up all night.
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I'm not going there. :) That said after the Michigan game against Purdue, neither Minny or Wisconsin played zone either. Still, people gravitate to a zone after a loss and sometimes forget what it gives up. Purdue is not ideally suited for a zone this year IMO and I don't think zone is the reason Purdue loses games and have written extensively on it. I believe that many see it in high school and think it translates the same way to college. Instead you can probably flip them ..more zone in high school and less zone in college...
 
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gelesen said:
If we meet Nevada round 2, we meet up with Kendall Stevens(although ineligible yet)
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yeah, but back row in the middle number 21...looks like he may have put on some weight and strength
 
tjreese said:
The very limited viewings suggest to me that Haas plays in this one.
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AGREED ! ! Isaac had 16 pts against them last year and was a BIG reason we fouled out one big and had another with 4 ! Only Dakota scored more (17) so they will be shocked if Haas doesn't play. When they started double teaming him last year, it lead to 18 3s at mackey - I was there !
 
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Watched a lot of ISU the last couple days. Fun team to watch. They get up and down the floor. Shoot a lot of quick 3's. No chance of a shot clock violation. If their 3's are falling, they will give any team trouble. Morris, the pg, absolutely dominated to win MVP of Big 12 tourney. They also have an absolute monster named Burton. At 6'5"/250, he looks like he should be playing TE in the NFL. Threw down the best alley-oop I've seen this year vs WVU last night.

Flip side, after a highly emotional run thru Big 12 tourney, they may have a tough time getting back up for their first round game vs Nevada. They didn't appear to have a lot of size. Didn't particularly impress on D, so they want to just out score teams.

If it's PU and Iowa St, I look forward to the contrasting styles here. Good luck.
 
MJ-79Boiler said:
AGREED ! ! Isaac had 16 pts against them last year and was a BIG reason we fouled out one big and had another with 4 ! Only Dakota scored more (17) so they will be shocked if Haas doesn't play. When they started double teaming him last year, it lead to 18 3s at mackey - I was there !
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I was too, but after a while many games run together. My memory was the honoring of Josh since there was a lot of news right after his accident, but remember beating them.
 
tjreese said:
Not once did I see Vermont play a zone in the very short clips. Have a couple of guys that step out an shoot 3s..one from EVansville (4 players form Indiana), but didn't see anything a whole lot different than most teams in approach. They will drive the ball..at least the little guard will and their forwards appear to be willing to work close to the lane starting out facing up as well as showing hands for a jump shot. Again, highlight clips for 2 minutes here and there don't tell much. If anyone has a whole game...recently played that would be better. Beating them last year in Mackey should help get some jitters out of the way and get the a decent start in this tourney

After seeing Purdue lose to Michigan and not play zone it was a little disappointing to see Minny and Wisconsin not play zone either. It wouldn't have hurt, both teams got beat.
Click to expand...
DO NOT take Vermont lightly and do not go in over-confident. 21 game winning streak means you're pretty damned good at what you do. This could very well be a trap game if the Boilers don't bring everything they have and you have to win the first to get to the second.
 
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TwinDegrees2 said:
DO NOT take Vermont lightly and do not go in over-confident. 21 game winning streak means you're pretty damned good at what you do. This could very well be a trap game if the Boilers don't bring everything they have and you have to win the first to get to the second.
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Absolutely...those playes are on scolly as well. Still, I doubt a trap game happens since I think the Boilers will be hell bent on this game cause the monkey has been on too long. Hopefully, if they win ...they get back to work and realize another monkey just jumped on their back as well
 
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tjreese said:
Absolutely...those playes are on scolly as well. Still, I doubt a trap game happens since I think the Boilers will be hell bent on this game cause the monkey has been on too long. Hopefully, if they win ...they get back to work and realize another monkey just jumped on their back as well
Click to expand...

But you don't want Purdue playing tight and/or overanxious. Purdue needs to play calm, take care of the ball and dictate the game. Purdue's going to have a significant size advantage, but Isaac can also knock over their biggest player with a nudge. So we gotta be careful about being bulls in a china shop and also taking care of the basketball.
 
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I remember how excited we were in the size advantage we had over little rock last year. Didn't they triple team hammonds?

They just need to go out and play their game and we will be fine.
 
chiboiler7 said:
I remember how excited we were in the size advantage we had over little rock last year. Didn't they triple team hammonds?

They just need to go out and play their game and we will be fine.
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There were two things that were notable from last year's match-up:

1. They were VERY scrappy and played good pressure defense - leading to a lot of turnovers. They were known for this coming into the game. We had 18 turnovers, including 4 by PJ and Vince both, because of this. Hammons/Haas only had a combined 2.

2. They did triple team Hammons - and limited his attempts. He was 5-10 in the game, not terribly efficient for him and not as many as you'd maybe expect with the size difference. Purdue tried DESPERATELY to free it up inside - almost half of our shot attempts were 3s. Purdue shot 9-28 from 3 - 32%, which did not lead to Little Rock needing to abandon their strategy.

Vermont's played against Purdue (and Haas), so they have an idea of what they're facing. Our guards are going to have some open shots - can't afford to shoot 32% from 3....and can't have half of our attempts be 3s (unless we're shooting 50% or more o_O).
 
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Vermont's lone tourney win came against 4 seed Syracuse in 2005. Also looking at the 1st round upsets since 1985 (11 - 15 seeds)
I only see purdue 3 times: 1985 1986 2016. 11 auburn. 11 lsu.
 
lbodel said:
But you don't want Purdue playing tight and/or overanxious. Purdue needs to play calm, take care of the ball and dictate the game. Purdue's going to have a significant size advantage, but Isaac can also knock over their biggest player with a nudge. So we gotta be careful about being bulls in a china shop and also taking care of the basketball.
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I don't think they play tight unless it is close in the second half. I do think they could be overanxious to get back to winning and get the monkey off. This is a cerebral group, but it sure would be nice for a few to get the stroke going again...
 
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tjreese said:
Whole lot of things for that, but let me try to see if I can give my opinion on what I think you are asking. Purdue typically plays two bigs all game. That allows substitution and the ability or versatility of Vince and Biggie to use whatever advantage they have. Although there amy be times I would like to see all three for very short minutes, we don't for the reasons I listed. That means there are 80 minutes to split up between those three and if Haas gets 25 that would put him on equal basis with Vince and Biggie essentailly..and with all the strengths Haas has, he is limited as far as versatility.

Now that said, there are some games I would love for him to get more than 25 if he can do it. Haas is most effective when not playing athletic quick players and doesn't have to move that mass quickly as a lot of basketball has to do with the time to cover a certain distance. I actually wanted Haas to see more time in Michigan late in the game becasue I thought by then Michigan was out of sync on the three ball a little and he was effective inside.

Relative to Vermont and again ...very short clips can be misleading...I didn't catch great athletes with an abundance of quickness that he would have to guard. They seemed to be skillful but used to being effective inside (bigs) and they may not be that effective inside against Purdue and may have to only use their perimeter game. Now full disclosure...I have said for some time that "I" prefer athletic players that can go outside and in and to play two 4 type players with length than a true center. That is me..and why I loved the bookends of Wagner and Wilson to have on a team because they cause all kinds of mismatches. A true center is a change up for some teams though just like Purdue playing a motion offense that reads what the defense gives and a lot of off the ball stuff instead of so many ball screens. Think of Purdue as Fidelity Contrarian... :)

If I never answered what you were wanting try again more specifically and I'll try to give my opinion. :)
Click to expand...

You actually answered with your own answer. The BT Final had long athletic centers and Haas tortured both on the defensive end. Haas plays very good defense and when he is in there limits drives and short jump shots. Haap had trouble shooting short jumpers against Haas. The only guy who burnt Haas was Wilson with his 2 spin moves and his 2 3's. You are right! Wilson could not continue hitting the 3's in the 2nd half and when he tried his spin move Biggie picked his pocket.

Yes, both teams have long athletic quick centers, but Haas feasted on them and drew many fouls on all of them. You are right! Haas should have played ten more minutes in the 2nd half against Michigan and we would have beaten them easily. They may be quicker than Haas and when they are shooting hot switch Haas to someone else or take him out. Conversely, NONE of them have Haas' strength and Haas was scoring at will and grabbing boards. My point is I do not see a scenario where Haas is a match up problem. Vermont has a strong 6'8" and without seeing him, I dare say he will be quicker than Haas. With a slough off D, we can stop him. Like Minny or Mich, how does he stop Haas.

Haas looked out of sort from getting yanked so much. IMO it really hurt his confidence. However, he was a monster against Mich. In the playoffs, the refs will let more physical things go and Haas can be the difference maker. If Haas is projected to play 25 minutes and he and VE and CB play 85 minutes, we will go deep into the tournament.
 
tjreese said:
I don't think they play tight unless it is close in the second half. I do think they could be overanxious to get back to winning and get the monkey off. This is a cerebral group, but it sure would be nice for a few to get the stroke going again...
Click to expand...

Amen to that, TJ.
 
No easy games in NCAA tourney unless you are a 1 or 2 seed. Vermont is 63 in Kenpom. Higher than 2 teams we lost to and one we hung on to beat. But all on the road.

I'm sure the effort will be there after the quick BTT exit and the last 2 years 1at round loss, but not sure about their mindset.
 
todd brewster said:
You actually answered with your own answer. The BT Final had long athletic centers and Haas tortured both on the defensive end. Haas plays very good defense and when he is in there limits drives and short jump shots. Haap had trouble shooting short jumpers against Haas. The only guy who burnt Haas was Wilson with his 2 spin moves and his 2 3's. You are right! Wilson could not continue hitting the 3's in the 2nd half and when he tried his spin move Biggie picked his pocket.

Yes, both teams have long athletic quick centers, but Haas feasted on them and drew many fouls on all of them. You are right! Haas should have played ten more minutes in the 2nd half against Michigan and we would have beaten them easily. They may be quicker than Haas and when they are shooting hot switch Haas to someone else or take him out. Conversely, NONE of them have Haas' strength and Haas was scoring at will and grabbing boards. My point is I do not see a scenario where Haas is a match up problem. Vermont has a strong 6'8" and without seeing him, I dare say he will be quicker than Haas. With a slough off D, we can stop him. Like Minny or Mich, how does he stop Haas.

Haas looked out of sort from getting yanked so much. IMO it really hurt his confidence. However, he was a monster against Mich. In the playoffs, the refs will let more physical things go and Haas can be the difference maker. If Haas is projected to play 25 minutes and he and VE and CB play 85 minutes, we will go deep into the tournament.
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AS I said I would like to see the three of them more, but understand that Haas limits things for Biggie and Vince as the court is not as open and so that is a concern as well on the offensive end...and when playing together...no rest for any...
 
tjreese said:
Absolutely...those playes are on scolly as well. Still, I doubt a trap game happens since I think the Boilers will be hell bent on this game cause the monkey has been on too long. Hopefully, if they win ...they get back to work and realize another monkey just jumped on their back as well
Click to expand...
Sometimes those monkeys live a long life. I just don't like this match up for the Boilers and hope they prove me wrong.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
Sometimes those monkeys live a long life. I just don't like this match up for the Boilers and hope they prove me wrong.
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Since the moment Basil left, Purdue has been thin inside and without another variable to help at the three or even four...not to mention and extra minute here and there to rest. Next year it will be back to finding playing time... :)
 
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