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If CJB can recruit this way after 9 wins over the past years

I am optimistic/excited about Coach Brohm also, and I like how the 2018 class is shaping up.. but a couple of thoughts:

(1) Don't confuse timing and quantity of commits with ability to recruit higher end players. Current class ranking #36, but our average recruit rating will likely put us in the 50-60 range when all is said and done and other teams fill out their classes. Not to mention decommits. This is similar to the caution given to the chicken littles who were over-reacting a month ago when we barely had anyone committed. It's all going to settle out in the end to be a class that is better than any of DH2, but not by leaps and bounds. With 21 commits we are close enough to the end to project that.

(2) Don't discount the value of being able to sell hope and a fresh start. The best thing Coach is doing IMO is filling some immediate needs for 2017, and trying to be as competitive as possible this season. Right now he has hope to sell for the future and there is some buzz around the program based on his results at WKU. He is the shiny new coach without a scratch on him. He can get people to somewhat overlook Purdue's recent record and tie that to the previous regime (legitimately). But come this fall, there will be results in the book of Brohm at Purdue and he will have to wear those on the recruiting trail from then on. If this season goes south, which it may to no fault of his own, it could be a buzzkill for recruiting. This is also why IMO last year MB should have rescheduled the UL game to a later season. It will be his very first game, with hardly any of his players. Not a fair fight, really. I hope it is a competitive game just to avoid the negative impact it could otherwise have on the Brohm era right out of the gate.
 
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I am optimistic/excited about Coach Brohm also, and I like how the 2018 class is shaping up, but a couple points of order:

(1) Don't confuse timing and quantity of commits with ability to recruit higher end players. Current class ranking #36, but our average recruit rating will likely put us in the 50-60 range when all is said and done and other teams fill out their classes. Not to mention decommits. This is similar to the caution given to the chicken littles who were over-reacting a month ago when we barely had anyone committed. It's all going to settle out in the end to be a class that is better than any of DH2, but not by leaps and bounds. With 21 commits we are close enough to the end to project that.

(2) Don't discount the value of being able to sell hope and a fresh start. The best thing Coach is doing IMO is filling some immediate needs for 2017, and trying to be as competitive as possible this season. Right now he has hope to sell for the future and there is some buzz around the program based on his results at WKU. He is the shiny new coach without a scratch on him. He can get people to somewhat overlook Purdue's recent record and tie that to the previous regime (legitimately). But come this fall, there will be results in the book of Brohm at Purdue and he will have to wear those on the recruiting trail from then on. If this season goes south, which it may to no fault of his own, it could be a buzzkill for recruiting. This is also why IMO last year MB should have rescheduled the UL game to a later season. It will be his very first game, with hardly any of his players. Not a fair fight, really. I hope it is a competitive game just to avoid the negative impact it could otherwise have on the Brohm era right out of the gate.

Don't forget the fact that many player ratings will rise or fall after they complete their Senior season. With the new early signing period this year, rating changes will be very fluid and fast!
 
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I am optimistic/excited about Coach Brohm also, and I like how the 2018 class is shaping up.. but a couple of thoughts:

(1) Don't confuse timing and quantity of commits with ability to recruit higher end players. Current class ranking #36, but our average recruit rating will likely put us in the 50-60 range when all is said and done and other teams fill out their classes. Not to mention decommits. This is similar to the caution given to the chicken littles who were over-reacting a month ago when we barely had anyone committed. It's all going to settle out in the end to be a class that is better than any of DH2, but not by leaps and bounds. With 21 commits we are close enough to the end to project that.

(2) Don't discount the value of being able to sell hope and a fresh start. The best thing Coach is doing IMO is filling some immediate needs for 2017, and trying to be as competitive as possible this season. Right now he has hope to sell for the future and there is some buzz around the program based on his results at WKU. He is the shiny new coach without a scratch on him. He can get people to somewhat overlook Purdue's recent record and tie that to the previous regime (legitimately). But come this fall, there will be results in the book of Brohm at Purdue and he will have to wear those on the recruiting trail from then on. If this season goes south, which it may to no fault of his own, it could be a buzzkill for recruiting. This is also why IMO last year MB should have rescheduled the UL game to a later season. It will be his very first game, with hardly any of his players. Not a fair fight, really. I hope it is a competitive game just to avoid the negative impact it could otherwise have on the Brohm era right out of the gate.

And don't discount that "hope and a fresh start" (2) well sell even better next year if the results of season 1 reinforce that narrative. This first year is absolutely critical, not in terms of Ws, but in terms of observable progress. The apparent regression in Hazell's first year is what buried him right out of the chute.
 
No coach or player is ever viewed more favorably than before coaching or playing their first game. There's certainly an advantage in selling a vision before there's any evidence that can be used against it and I've been saying that for years about every new coach anywhere.

The part that encourages me about our recruiting this summer is that it appears we've left no stone unturned in the search for players that can come in and help and that is what a coach at Purdue has to do. We're not Alabama or Ohio State that can look at a top 250 list and create our shopping list. We have to pick and choose our battles on the top kids and until we can prove more on the field we just have to learn to win with what we've got and get the best we can. Time will tell on how this translates to the field but I love the fact that we've brought in grad transfers, JUCO's, and now this kicker as an immediately eligible transfer from Baylor. This staff is looking everywhere to find players.
 
I am optimistic/excited about Coach Brohm also, and I like how the 2018 class is shaping up.. but a couple of thoughts:

(1) Don't confuse timing and quantity of commits with ability to recruit higher end players. Current class ranking #36, but our average recruit rating will likely put us in the 50-60 range when all is said and done and other teams fill out their classes. Not to mention decommits. This is similar to the caution given to the chicken littles who were over-reacting a month ago when we barely had anyone committed. It's all going to settle out in the end to be a class that is better than any of DH2, but not by leaps and bounds. With 21 commits we are close enough to the end to project that.

(2) Don't discount the value of being able to sell hope and a fresh start. The best thing Coach is doing IMO is filling some immediate needs for 2017, and trying to be as competitive as possible this season. Right now he has hope to sell for the future and there is some buzz around the program based on his results at WKU. He is the shiny new coach without a scratch on him. He can get people to somewhat overlook Purdue's recent record and tie that to the previous regime (legitimately). But come this fall, there will be results in the book of Brohm at Purdue and he will have to wear those on the recruiting trail from then on. If this season goes south, which it may to no fault of his own, it could be a buzzkill for recruiting. This is also why IMO last year MB should have rescheduled the UL game to a later season. It will be his very first game, with hardly any of his players. Not a fair fight, really. I hope it is a competitive game just to avoid the negative impact it could otherwise have on the Brohm era right out of the gate.

In reference to your first point, as cutthroat as it might seem....don't discount a coach telling a commit they no longer had a spot if a better one comes along. With the early signing period, you could see that become a component more than ever. If Brohm gets a call from a highly rated 4 star player in a position that is 'full', would you be ok with him doing so?
 
In reference to your first point, as cutthroat as it might seem....don't discount a coach telling a commit they no longer had a spot if a better one comes along. With the early signing period, you could see that become a component more than ever. If Brohm gets a call from a highly rated 4 star player in a position that is 'full', would you be ok with him doing so?
I am fully onboard with over-recruiting as a general rule, and particularly in a time of transition, as attrition on a roster of 85 is to be expected. Pulling the rug out from under a player who hasn't yet set foot on campus is a little different in my book. I hope that doesn't become a regular thing. But there are always exceptions and special situations- verbals are ill defined to begin with. What is communicated from the coach to each recruit is what's important, and that's what we don't know. It can also go both ways. We've gotten some early verbals before that treated Purdue as their safety school until a better offer materialized. In general, if this type of decision is to be made, the sooner the better.
 
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No coach or player is ever viewed more favorably than before coaching or playing their first game. There's certainly an advantage in selling a vision before there's any evidence that can be used against it and I've been saying that for years about every new coach anywhere.

The part that encourages me about our recruiting this summer is that it appears we've left no stone unturned in the search for players that can come in and help and that is what a coach at Purdue has to do. We're not Alabama or Ohio State that can look at a top 250 list and create our shopping list. We have to pick and choose our battles on the top kids and until we can prove more on the field we just have to learn to win with what we've got and get the best we can. Time will tell on how this translates to the field but I love the fact that we've brought in grad transfers, JUCO's, and now this kicker as an immediately eligible transfer from Baylor. This staff is looking everywhere to find players.

"No coach or player is ever viewed more favorably than before coaching or playing their first game."

Oh come on. You know this isn't correct. Many coaches and players have exceeded the most optimistic of initial expectations. You may be familiar with Joe Tiller or Drew Brees?
The lack of a track record only works to the advantage of those who disappoint later.
 
I would agree with TC4 Three. It was obvious Hazell's best recruiting class was his first one where he took over Hope's recruits and encouraged them to stay and added players to it. And before his first game of coaching, he brought in a bunch of 4 and 5 * players to his summer camp. Expectations and hopes were high. Everything was positive until his first actual game. The same was true of Hope. His firs t recruiting class was a lot better than his last one that saw a lot of decommitments. I believe guys like Etling and Blough would never have come to Purdue after Hazell's second season. And I have to believe many of last year's best recruits like Sipe remained committed only because they knew they'd probably be playing for a different coach.

But the signs were telling, in that Hazell did very little research on the needs/holes of our team when he added those last 10 recruits to his first class. and the outcome was soon obvious.

on a related note, I've probably been one of the most critical posters of Brohm. But in saying that, I've also been one who has predicted the greatest success for our team next year. I've gone on record in many posts saying we have the potential to win 6 games this year. I actually like our chances.

Yes, our Spring practice was rather poor. Our offense stuttered. But it also played without our best incoming receivers, who I expect will gain starting positions. And it also played without several incoming offensive linemen that I believe will receive significant minutes if not starting. and our defense played without a couple of expected starters as well. We've got a lot of juco and transfer players that did not participate in our Spring game. I believe our fans and our opponents will be surprised at how good this team really is this year. and rather than looking back, we need to look forward . This is an entirely new team.
 
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I would agree with TC4 Three. It was obvious Hazell's best recruiting class was his first one where he took over Hope's recruits and encouraged them to stay and added players to it. And before his first game of coaching, he brought in a bunch of 4 and 5 * players to his summer camp. Expectations and hopes were high. Everything was positive until his first actual game. The same was true of Hope. His firs t recruiting class was a lot better than his last one that saw a lot of decommitments. I believe guys like Etling and Blough would never have come to Purdue after Hazell's second season. And I have to believe many of last year's best recruits like Sipe remained committed only because they knew they'd probably be playing for a different coach.

But the signs were telling, in that Hazell did very little research on the needs/holes of our team when he added those last 10 recruits to his first class. and the outcome was soon obvious.

on a related note, I've probably been one of the most critical posters of Brohm. But in saying that, I've also been one who has predicted the greatest success for our team next year. I've gone on record in many posts saying we have the potential to win 6 games this year. I actually like our chances.

Yes, our Spring practice was rather poor. Our offense stuttered. But it also played without our best incoming receivers, who I expect will gain starting positions. And it also played without several incoming offensive linemen that I believe will receive significant minutes if not starting. and our defense played without a couple of expected starters as well. We've got a lot of juco and transfer players that did not participate in our Spring game. I believe our fans and our opponents will be surprised at how good this team really is this year. and rather than looking back, we need to look forward . This is an entirely new team.

TC4's point is correct in regard to coaches who fail, like Hazell. His point would be incorrect with regard to any number of successful coaches, whose stock went up even further from its initial "honeymoon" pricing. Let's hope Brohm is in the latter group.
 
TC4's point is correct in regard to coaches who fail, like Hazell. His point would be incorrect with regard to any number of successful coaches, whose stock went up even further from its initial "honeymoon" pricing. Let's hope Brohm is in the latter group.

There aren't that many coaches who do surprisingly well. In general, fans usually expect pretty close to the best-case scenario so in most cases a coach living up to expectations is about the best you can do. I'd say someone like John Calipari fits that bill and he's not a failed coach. Yet, nothing that he's accomplished at Kentucky really surprises anyone. He came in with fans pretty much expecting the best case scenario and he has mostly delivered that (although I have heard people take shots at him for not winning more national titles given his talent). Tiller may have been an exception you can cite but I really wonder what that would look like today if he came in during the social media era where expectations get built up quickly and disappointment is instantly and greatly amplified. I mean, Brohm has built a decent recruiting class and I see some people here thinking we can get six wins this season.
 
There aren't that many coaches who do surprisingly well. In general, fans usually expect pretty close to the best-case scenario so in most cases a coach living up to expectations is about the best you can do. I'd say someone like John Calipari fits that bill and he's not a failed coach. Yet, nothing that he's accomplished at Kentucky really surprises anyone. He came in with fans pretty much expecting the best case scenario and he has mostly delivered that (although I have heard people take shots at him for not winning more national titles given his talent). Tiller may have been an exception you can cite but I really wonder what that would look like today if he came in during the social media era where expectations get built up quickly and disappointment is instantly and greatly amplified. I mean, Brohm has built a decent recruiting class and I see some people here thinking we can get six wins this season.

I get it that some fans get overly optimistic about a new coach, but it's another thing to suggest that potential recruits as well as their coaches and advisors systematically develop irrational expectations, so that virtually all coaches end up being a disappointment relative to the expectations of the people who matter in recruiting.

My larger point is, Brohm's best recruiting days won't necessarily be behind him, after the year-1 honeymoon is over. If he's does well this year, in terms of beating expectations for observable improvement on the field, then I expect that his recruiting results will be better yet next year.
 
I get it that some fans get overly optimistic about a new coach, but it's another thing to suggest that potential recruits as well as their coaches and advisors systematically develop irrational expectations, so that virtually all coaches end up being a disappointment relative to the expectations of the people who matter in recruiting.

My larger point is, Brohm's best recruiting days won't necessarily be behind him, after the year-1 honeymoon is over. If he's does well this year, in terms of beating expectations for observable improvement on the field, then I expect that his recruiting results will be better yet next year.

I'd like to think that recruits are more objective about their decision than fans on message boards but sometimes I'm not sure.
 
and that's how the social media works. Brohm's recruiting class is ranked in the top 40, but the same site that did that ranking reflects his average recruit rating as the worst in the BIG 10. So which stat do you prefer ? positive or negative?
Brohm has recruited many players with lower rankings than some would like. but these are players some say fit Brohm's system regardless of their talent levels. it's kind of like when Charles Barkley was left off the Olympic team for somebody of less talent, because the coach was looking for a team player to compliment the other players rather than another star. if Brohm is able to produce victories, we will all say he is a coaching genius, and never doubt his decisions.

however, if he loses and gets blown away and produces only 3 victories, there will be people like me who will be all over his case questioning his ability to recruit, coach and he's just more of the same. All talk - no action. people will question why he added another kicker. or why he went after Sullivan. or why he bothered flipping a bunch of 2 stars last year. and why the new coaches at IU and Minn are better.

Some will claim the cupboard was bare when he arrived. Those same people are the ones who claimed Blough was the top BIG 10 QB. and then talk about how Purdue sent players to the NFL every year.

With winning comes acceptance by the fans and the players of the coach and his system. and that will lead to increased attendance, improved recruiting, and even more wins. however, we all know what will happen if the losing continues. the program will lose support from the fans, alumni, players and administration. I lived through the 33 game losing streak at UW in the 70's. IU fans have lived through their lack of football success. It becomes frustrating.

as many can attest, my last month of posts have probably been my most positive ones. however, nobody on this board has seen my most negative ones or the comments I make watching the games. I've read a few game threads. People get emotional. . My hope and belief is that Brohm has this team in the right direction. the results of his work will be displayed on the field.
 
Who said Blough was the best QB in the big ten? Hard to argue he is even third best going into the year.
 
No coach or player is ever viewed more favorably than before coaching or playing their first game. There's certainly an advantage in selling a vision before there's any evidence that can be used against it and I've been saying that for years about every new coach anywhere.

The part that encourages me about our recruiting this summer is that it appears we've left no stone unturned in the search for players that can come in and help and that is what a coach at Purdue has to do. We're not Alabama or Ohio State that can look at a top 250 list and create our shopping list. We have to pick and choose our battles on the top kids and until we can prove more on the field we just have to learn to win with what we've got and get the best we can. Time will tell on how this translates to the field but I love the fact that we've brought in grad transfers, JUCO's, and now this kicker as an immediately eligible transfer from Baylor. This staff is looking everywhere to find players.
Don't disagree, but, in the end...it all comes down to the ability to recruit...and, whereas in basketball it can be done with a class and just a couple of guys, in football, it is far more difficult to do, never mind quickly.

He has done a really nice job to date for next year...he has made some tremendous strides...but he still has a long way to go unfortunately, largely because of his predecessor and the prior AD unfortunately...hopefully, he is able to do it...it won't be for a lack of effort if it does not happen, but, it is hardly a given that it will happen.
 
Don't disagree, but, in the end...it all comes down to the ability to recruit...and, whereas in basketball it can be done with a class and just a couple of guys, in football, it is far more difficult to do, never mind quickly.

He has done a really nice job to date for next year...he has made some tremendous strides...but he still has a long way to go unfortunately, largely because of his predecessor and the prior AD unfortunately...hopefully, he is able to do it...it won't be for a lack of effort if it does not happen, but, it is hardly a given that it will happen.

I look at it a little differently. At Purdue, you're never getting the cream of the crop for football so the ability to identify raw talent and then develop/coach it so it will be competitive with top guys 2-3 years in is what's necessary to succeed. Tiller succeeded in large part because he had the ability to see things in certain players/athletes and put them in positions to succeed in his offense.

Brohm might prove to be a great recruiter but I doubt we'll ever be in a position where we're going to consistently pull in top recruiting classes in the conference. The key for us is to get to that upper-middle tier in recruiting and then develop/coach better than most of the rest.
 
Who said Blough was the best QB in the big ten? Hard to argue he is even third best going into the year.


I said top as in stats and yards, not best. although, I'm not really sure who the best QB in the BIG 10 will be. this year. With our receivers and an improved offensive line, and the elimination of his errant throws, it could very well be Blough. I really like the receivers Brohm has brought to Purdue. They could really make a difference.
 
I said top as in stats and yards, not best. although, I'm not really sure who the best QB in the BIG 10 will be. this year. With our receivers and an improved offensive line, and the elimination of his errant throws, it could very well be Blough. I really like the receivers Brohm has brought to Purdue. They could really make a difference.

Blough did have the most yards. Doesn't mean he was the best.

We will see, I think we are going to rely on the running backs quite a bit this year.
 
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Blough did have the most yards. Doesn't mean he was the best.

We will see, I think we are going to rely on the running backs quite a bit this year.

I think we'll see Jones, BLJ, and Worship on the field at once and have Jones and BLJ split in to the slots (either solo or both). This could put a lot of pressure on a defense as both are capable pass catchers and putting them against a LB is a scenario that benefits Purdue. You also get a chance to remove a LB from the box with Worship running the ball inside...also a schematic advantage.
 
I look at it a little differently. At Purdue, you're never getting the cream of the crop for football so the ability to identify raw talent and then develop/coach it so it will be competitive with top guys 2-3 years in is what's necessary to succeed. Tiller succeeded in large part because he had the ability to see things in certain players/athletes and put them in positions to succeed in his offense.

Brohm might prove to be a great recruiter but I doubt we'll ever be in a position where we're going to consistently pull in top recruiting classes in the conference. The key for us is to get to that upper-middle tier in recruiting and then develop/coach better than most of the rest.
Cream of the crop or not, you still need to get talent...and, simple as this, you are not going to win, and win consistently (never mind big), if you are not capable of putting B1G-caliber talent on the field...I totally agree that Purdue will never out recruit the big boys in the conference at the top, but, they have to recruit legitimate B1G talent...Tiller and staff did do a nice job of identifying guys that fit their system and that could be developed, but, his best teams were loaded with quality players and NFL-caliber guys.
 
Cream of the crop or not, you still need to get talent...and, simple as this, you are not going to win, and win consistently (never mind big), if you are not capable of putting B1G-caliber talent on the field...I totally agree that Purdue will never out recruit the big boys in the conference at the top, but, they have to recruit legitimate B1G talent...Tiller and staff did do a nice job of identifying guys that fit their system and that could be developed, but, his best teams were loaded with quality players and NFL-caliber guys.

Much of the talent that ended up in the NFL did not come in that highly regarded though. Brees, Hardwick, Kerrigan, Kelller are guys I'm thinking of off the top of my head. Either off the radar or lost in the mix of everyone else for one reason or another. We have to find and develop those guys to compete at the top.
 
No coach or player is ever viewed more favorably than before coaching or playing their first game. There's certainly an advantage in selling a vision before there's any evidence that can be used against it and I've been saying that for years about every new coach anywhere.

The part that encourages me about our recruiting this summer is that it appears we've left no stone unturned in the search for players that can come in and help and that is what a coach at Purdue has to do. We're not Alabama or Ohio State that can look at a top 250 list and create our shopping list. We have to pick and choose our battles on the top kids and until we can prove more on the field we just have to learn to win with what we've got and get the best we can. Time will tell on how this translates to the field but I love the fact that we've brought in grad transfers, JUCO's, and now this kicker as an immediately eligible transfer from Baylor. This staff is looking everywhere to find players.
As you stated, he hasn't coached a game against the big boys in the B10....yet. Tough to win with leftover recruits the others didn't win, but we'll see very soon.
 
As you stated, he hasn't coached a game against the big boys in the B10....yet. Tough to win with leftover recruits the others didn't win, but we'll see very soon.

We will see. I think coaching could make a bigger difference than most anticipate but the schedule isn't very favorable early.
 
As you stated, he hasn't coached a game against the big boys in the B10....yet. Tough to win with leftover recruits the others didn't win, but we'll see very soon.
True but I'm not sure Hazzell could have gone 50-50 with Alabama or O$U's players.
 
I'm waiting 'til The Boring, er, Boris weighs in!!!
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